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mozz Admin

@mozz@mbin.grits.dev

Theerre's the hostility I was trying to bait into existence

mozz Admin ,
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CHARGES

It's fine if you want to open an inquiry, but there is not the slightest shortage of things that it's been demonstrated that Trump did wrong

Have the sergeant at arms go and fetch some people who contempt of congress'd and lock them up under the Capitol until they agree that they were wrong and they'll answer questions now

Make a habit of finding a new crime every day that no one's done something about, from Trump or one of his allies, and recommend charges to the DOJ for it, whatever the terminology is. Give Matt Gaetz a subpoena because the house wants to investigate him paying underage girls for sex. Tell Boebert that giving handies in a theater is an ethics violation, and give her a fine, and have someone who's armed physically block her path trying to come into congress until she pays it.

IDK, I still fully agree with the reasons why political people shouldn't be telling the DOJ who to prosecute, I'm not saying do that. But surely a fact-finding mission to find out whether or not Trump and his friends are crooks is no longer necessary at this point.

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Yeah, I get it. You're not wrong. I wasn't even really thinking in terms of the details of how it does need to happen. I'm just saying it's crazy that we're still investigating. Y'all (meaning congress) are going to investigate your way along right up until the Oathkeepers come into congress armed and tell you who goes and who stays, it sounds like.

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"Try not to catch any felonies on the way to the parking lot!"

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There is actually a crisis at the border, just not the kind that Fox News thinks is going on.

The rate of people coming into the country has shot up, which means there's this massive amount of people either waiting in sort of open-air camps on the Mexican border, just living in a crowded, dusty field for months and months waiting for their turn, and a massive amount of people already in the country in overcrowded detention centers awaiting their chance to be heard for asylum by a judge or to be processed out and sent home. Just typing it out like that maybe doesn't sound so bad, but it's grim. Some are families, some are sick (like real sick), all are with no jobs or money or a lot of times no civilized infrastructure like water or like that. Some are stuffed into overcrowded detention centers with racist, violent guards and no real rights of any kind.

Part of the Democratic immigration plan is to boost resources for ICE (more detention centers i.e. less overcrowding) and increase the number of judges to clear the backlog, which will decrease that side of the misery. Part of the plan is to deliberately increase the cruelty in some parts of the system (e.g. make it harder for people to get asylum even if your home is objectively unlivable, give ICE more aggressive tools to be racist with, things like that), so that the Republicans will make a deal and actually pass the thing. I honestly don't know what proportion is for each part, but there's some of both.

I honestly don't know that much about it, except that it's weird that people are so eagerly blaming the Democrats both for the present levels of misery in the system (which are substantial), and for their attempts to get something passed which will take some steps to alleviate the worst of the misery (how dare you give ICE more resources, etc). But since the Republicans have been rejecting any change no matter what its nature, it seems like maybe kind of a moot point.

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ICE is a fascist organization

True dat

that serves no purpose other than terrorizing migrants

Debatable but yeah you could make a pretty strong case. Certainly that's one of their core missions if not the core mission.

Anyone who funds them is also a fascist

You fund them, through taxes, if you live in the US

Oh wait, you might say, that's different because I don't really have a choice because of etc etc

How does it feel funding a fascist organization?

There's not overcrowding because of lack of means

Citation needed

Are you suggesting that there are empty ICE detention facilities somewhere, that aren't holding any migrants so that they can be deliberately put into only a few of them?

Or that they're all full and there is money to build more / staff more that's just not being touched on purpose, because ICE cares so much about being cruel that they're forgoing hiring more people and adding more hours just so they can run a smaller operation?

They don't really have a shortage of ways to be cruel, even if there were no overcrowding.

Democrats are pushing extremely far right legislation. They're not trying to make legal migration more orderly, they're trying to "crackdown" same as the GOP. It's why Biden rolled back very few if any of Trump's insane policies; they're both deeply racist.

This all sounds like all assertion no citation, to me.

Actually family separation (rather starting a task force to find the families of the separated kids) was one of the first reversals of Trump's policies that Biden did but there are a whole bunch of them. The separation was already stopped because it was too horrifying even for US immigration authorities, but the kids were still in custody with no effort to give them back to their parents until Biden. It was like one of his first things he did.

No idea why you're so committed to rocking back and forth chanting to yourself, Biden's a bad man, Biden's a bad man, Biden's a bad man. You can talk about Gaza and find no shortage of terrible things he did; you don't have to react to something factual by just starting to chant it again in every case.

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Fun fact: The 40% figure is based on one single study that was a self-report study from the early 1990s, asking police whether a disagreement with their spouse had ever gotten “physical.” A follow-up study found a rate of 24%, also from the 1990s. It’s actually hard to find numbers since then (partly because it’s just inherently a hard topic to study), but assuming that every one of those self-reports was a wife beater, and that nothing has changed since 1992 (0% change in the culture of policing or the handling of domestic violence) seems unlikely.

TL;DR I don’t know what percent of police officers are wife beaters but it isn’t 40%, and claiming that it is is gleefully misrepresenting the truth; using the very outlandishness of it to claim that the cops are outlandishly and cartoonishly evil

More on this

I realize that this information will be unwelcome, and I eagerly anticipate your downvotes. Why are you booing me I’m right

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Totally reasonable. If there’s one thing I like doing, it is undermining a useful message by being condescending about it for no good reason.

(Also I was clearly being unfair, since the wave of opposition I was expecting hasn’t materialized)

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That's actually a really good question

I think generally it boils down to an "enemy" mentality. If you're a cop, a decent fraction of your job is getting violent with people who are resisting what you're doing because they don't want to go to jail. I think once someone slots into that "enemy" category, then it immediately becomes comfortable to do something horrendous to them; even if, like this woman, they didn't do a damn thing wrong. So the end result is lending strength to state oppression.

I don't think the solution to that is to get rid of all the cops. What are you going to do if someone tries to murder you? Any city in American that wanted to get its city council together and just disband the police force is able to do that; I don't think it's a unanimous capitalistic plot that they don't; it's that they genuinely fulfill an important function.

I also don't think the solution is to have cops, but make them the enemy and be hostile to them all the time and defund them to punish them and decide that they're a part of your city's infrastructure that's just always the enemy all the time. That's part of what I don't like about this meme -- it's like, who cares if it's true, I just know these are always shitty people so any shitty thing I want to believe about them becomes a good thing to feel and so let's get busy on hating them.

I do think strong oversight of the police is a good thing. I think bodycams and the culture of charging police with a crime (sometimes 😕) when they commit a crime changed policing in a massive way that isn't really recognized. There are still big problems for sure. I also think sending people who aren't police to e.g. mental health calls, places where the "let's catch the bad people" model isn't going to be what is needed, is a really good thing.

But I think in general, exactly the same mentality that leads this cop to drag this woman around by her hair ("well fuck it, she's a suspect, she's coming with me and who cares whether it gets done in a humane fashion, because that type of person is always the enemy") actually roots back at the core to a very similar mentality to that that says "I'm going to bitch at the cop on this traffic stop and be antagonistic for no reason" or "all bad statistics about cops are true, all good statistics about cops are false" or etc etc, you know that type of person is always the enemy, you get the idea.

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Theerre's the hostility I was trying to bait into existence 😃

Honestly I apologize tho

mozz Admin , (edited )
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There's a lot there but I read the cited 2015 paper. From it:

Officers knocked on the door; when no one answered, they kicked down the door and took Diggs, who was bleeding from a small facial wound, outside

, according to Prince George’s County, Maryland prosecutors.

When asked about the recent increase in arrests of District of Columbia police officers, Chief Cathy Lanier noted that

Ninety-eight officers were arrested more than once on domestic violence charges between 2007 and 2010

And then:

Part IV asks why, in contrast, police officers are able to abuse their partners with impunity

Kinda sounds like literally every single example in this paper involves some sort of prosecution of the cops who were involved, i.e. not with impunity. No?

This is part of what I was saying -- I think back in 1992, the culture that if a cop beat up his wife or drove drunk, his co workers would look the other way was almost universal. I know it's definitely not universal now. Is it still common? I honestly don't know. But getting a honest answer to that question seems like a vital step in stopping it from happening in the places where it is still happening. Right? Or no?

There are actually much much worse and more systemic stories than these. I'm just saying that it's good to want to arrive at an actual measurement of how often it happens (because it's way different if it's 40% versus 10% versus 4%), and that it's bad to just pick the highest number you can and say that that's obviously what's going on because cops are terrible people. How do we know they're terrible people? Because 40% of them beat their wives, that's how.

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One thing I like to do is ask people for examples of police misconduct, and then point out that the overwhelming majority of the examples they cited involved the cops getting arrested or prosecuted by their fellow officers for what they were doing. Not all, obviously.

The person elsewhere in this thread who cited domestic violence among police conformed exactly to that pattern - they cited a 2015 study that went over a bunch of different examples of domestic abuse by cops, and in pretty much every one the cop was being prosecuted for what they'd done.

You don't have to agree with me of course, but I think this is part of the big change that's gone unnoticed in the culture of policing even in the short time since Eric Garner and that era -- it used to be that cops would protect each other even for very major crimes; I think that that's becoming a lot less true now.

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Yeah, agreed. There are tons of valid reasons to criticize the police (or, I would say, demand accountability from them in keeping with the amount of power they're granted by the legal system). But just framing something deliberately slanted because you want to make them look as bad as possible doesn't seem like a good addition to that list though.

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Yeah probably so

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Honestly I set out to make again the point about “asking people how they feel like things are going isn’t actually a good way to measure economics, especially when 50% of them (you know the ones) are programmed by the news they consume to be in a state of constant frothing panic about inflation, crime, and immigrants” - but I looked at the report itself and its charts and I actually really like them. They seem like they ask enough very specific things to get down to brass tacks of how people are doing on a month to month survival level in a way that seems like it’s exactly one of the key things that the Fed should be tracking. So yeah fair play.

Idk if I would have led off with all the worst possible things you can find - like take a report that says, 72% of adults say they’re doing okay or better financially, and find the highest statistic that you can find that can be paired up with something bad, and then put that in the headline instead - but the actual report seems really good.

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Yeah, 2022 was a shit show. That’s when all the Covid inflation hit, that ate up the gains in wages at the top of the scale and then some. The fact that even with that having happened, wages at the bottom have been beating inflation by quite a bit, is a damn miracle. But yeah I’m a little surprised it went down by only 6% in 2022.

Health care is a good one yeah - the number of uninsured people has been dropping steadily the last few years, to where now it’s lower than it’s ever been. Enrollment in ACA-sponsored plans shot up when Biden started unfucking some of the things that the Republicans had done to try to kill it. Idk how health care spending looks, but there’s like 20 million people who have health care now who didn’t before, I know.

LLM queries for personal pdf libraries?

So perplexity can kind of weakly analyze the first few pages of small file size pdfs one at a time, but I'd love to have something that would allow me to upload several hundred research papers and textbooks that could then be analyzed for consensus and contradictions and give me more meaningful search results and summaries than...

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Chroma is supposed to be able to import a ton of information into a vectorized format that lets you search through it in a way that's semantically meaningful, so you (or your tool) can sort of pick out the stuff from a huge batch of source material that you need to pass to the LLM for any given query.

I played around with it a little bit and I wasn't able to determine if it was a real thing or just a weird AI hype thing, but people seem to take it seriously. I would bet that someone's attempted to make a little system on top of it that lets you do stuff like what you're wanting to do (since that's what it's made for), but IDK how well it would work... might be useful to search for stuff adjacent to Chroma or vector databases to see if there are tools like that, though.

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They reached out to her a couple days before they launched, and said hey do you want to maybe reconsider that thing where we asked you about this a couple times, and both times you told us to go fuck ourselves

And then they told the media that they were in discussions with her, when the discussions were her lawyer telling them to go fuck themselves

And then Altman tweeted "her"

And then when it launched, it was according to her so freakishly similar that her friends were weirded out by it

If it was some different actress saying hey this sounds a lot like me, that wasn't the one that they clearly had in mind when they were making their plans about it, then I could see a pretty strong argument to say hey relax buddy sometimes different people just sound similar

I don't really know and I don't care enough to listen to samples for myself and see what I think. But just based on the above set of random facts I feel like probably she has a fairly strong case.

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I am curious to know if this is a joke or not, I assume it is

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Extra spicy context: The Ukrainians on the eastern front have figured out that it’s hugely important to the Russians to be able to plant Russian flags to show that they are taking territory and making progress. And so, the UA army has made a hobby of planting Ukrainian flags in inconvenient places with drones (in the middle of a huge open field with no cover, up on top of a water tower), and then inevitably comes a Russian operation to remove the flag even though it’s the world’s most obvious ambush (because removing the flag is a CRITICAL priority and the Russian commanders care more about the flags than the lives of their men.) And so, the Ukrainians get to do an ambush.

It’s working so well in the place that they invented it that the game of Water Tower Drone Flag is spreading to other areas and apparently working well there, too.

‘Both Candidates Are Trash!’ Charlamagne Pushes Back Hard On The View Hosts Pressing for Biden Endorsement ( www.mediaite.com )

“The reality is I think both candidates are trash, but I am going to vote in November and going to vote my best interest and I’m going to vote for who I think can preserve democracy, so if I think both candidates are trash and I don’t feel like endorsing one, would you rather me endorse an individual or endorse the fact...

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we need to go out and defend democracy

My man you need to be endorsing one of these candidates, then

I'm not tryin to start the same argument we always have, because we've had it before, so I'll simply say that the options are:

  • Biden is trash but I'm voting for him anyway
  • Biden's actually not trash, here, look at this chart

There is no third option that's within the bounds of objective reality, and the fact that that's not where our media is located doesn't change that.

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I mean I probably will at some point; just based on that little snippet below the headline, maybe he is saying something general principle based and sensible. The both candidates are trash just got my hackles up 🙂

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Detritus

Hullabaloo

Fracas

Widdershins

Ideological

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Plus several points for like half the output arrows leading to Python instead of trying to achieve some kind of false "both sides"ism on which language to pick starting out

Minus several points for the fairly bizarre list of out-of-date languages down below which are fairly poorly mapped onto characters

  • C is clearly Gandalf; older than time, wise and powerful, but for God's sake know what you're doing before you start fuckin with it
  • Java is Saruman; superficially similar, but has fallen to the dark side, still trusted in some circles but the wise have realized that nothing good is coming from it nowadays
  • C++ is Gondor. It can get shit done and you may be in a position where its power is all that's between you and ruin, but beware, parts of it have become corrupted
  • Javascript is clearly Gollum. You may need to travel with it, it has a part to play and still some good inside, but you won't like it and it won't like you.
  • Python is Merry and Pippin. Yeah they're friendly, they steal mushrooms and they like to sleep late, but in a crush they can absolutely come through.

And so on

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Splintering of the establishment left (SDP) versus the actual left (KPD) in the 1932 German elections was a big part of what allowed Hitler's rise to power. Even while both were literally gun-battling in the streets with the paramilitary force that later became the SS, the KPD was calling the SDP "the main enemy" and "social fascists." The SDP saw what was coming and allied with their conservative opponents to promote Hindenburg in the 1932 election, so that Hitler wouldn't win, while the KPD ran their own candidate who siphoned off 13% of the vote.

Hindenburg still barely squeaked into power, but Hitler was the only candidate with a strong unified front behind him, and on Hindenburg's death Hitler assumed power and immediately starting killing the KPD members en masse. The SDP and KPD blamed each other, for not compromising and thus allowing Hitler to gain so much ground instead of facing a unified opposition, but at that point it didn't really matter who was or wasn't at fault, and the KPD were the first grouping explicitly singled out for death once he took over.

You can read all about it in here.

I had someone on Lemmy tell me not that long ago that the lesson of this was that the KPD was right, and the SDP were the real enemy for compromising with the conservatives, and if they'd just been more left and earned the support of the real left people then the whole thing wouldn't have happened. I do wonder what attitude in hindsight of one of the KPD people in the camps would have been to this "it's not my job to vote for you, it's your job to earn my support" electoral philosophy, but it's impossible to know, because of course they all were put to death.

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I wrote in Bernie in the Democratic primary. IDK if that even gets counted; I don't know how it works, but fuck man, someone reads it I know, even if from there it goes straight into the "N/A" column.

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There is no disagreement here the SPD fought the KPD and won.

"How dare you fight back when I try to armed-uprising you, that is very unfair and my feelings are hurt now and so I can't support you."

I love the left dearly but this sounds exactly like left person logic, yes. 🙂

the division was not healed in time to form a united front against the Nazis

And again, it's relevant that the SDP was willing to heal divisions with (at least some of) their enemies to fight the Nazis, and the KPD (from what you're saying) were not (at least where the SDP was concerned).

I have no particular dog in this fight; I'm out of my depth now in terms of what happened and who was at fault. My point is, those bitter divisions and arguments and the justifications for them that you're talking about -- however you want to allocate blame for them between the SDP and KPD -- didn't do either of them a lick of good when the NSDAP started kicking down doors and shooting them both in the back of the head, and that's relevant to the upcoming US election.

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I wasn't trying to put words in their mouth; just saying how it sounded to me if they were upset that when they took up arms against the SDP in 1919, what came back to them was violent and unfair. There's also the issue (which is maybe why I'm so unsympathetic in general) that it's silly to still be upset in 1932 about something that happened in 1919, when the way to stay alive and keep alive a whole bunch of people who had nothing to do with either SDP or KPD, would have been for both of them to let it go and start fighting the bigger enemy.

But yeah, maybe I picked an unkind / unfair way to make the point, you're right. And like I say, we're into the detail points that I really don't know about, so I am learning also from you about all of this for the first time.

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And for the germans their leadership was summarily executed by paramilitary groups sent by the government.

(Assuming you meant in 1919)

Yeah, but wasn't that after the KPD did an uprising and was doing battle with the SDP?

I'm genuinely asking; I'm just not familiar with it. If you want me to read up and get back to you I can do that too.

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I think I got irritated and just abandoned the conversation, but we can continue.

What you just said actually made a lot of sense and as far as I know the history, I agree with it more or less completely (and would allocate blame for Trump at most of the Bill Clinton / Nancy Pelosi type Democrats in exactly the same way for exactly the same reason)

So if it sounded like I was exonerating them I was not. My point was, once Hitler comes around it doesn't matter; if you're still running a 13% spoiler candidate to weaken the alternative to Hitler, and then blaming the ones who won the election because they didn't do a good enough job of compromising with you... I mean, you may have a case, but you'll still be dead if Hitler wins. Surely that is relevant?

They sure didn't get the real material relief to the German people by not supporting Hindenburg; definitely not until 1945 and even then it came with some caveats.

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This is such a weird strawman

Nobody on Lemmy likes genocide, as far as I can tell. I saw somebody who was in favor of it a couple days ago, which makes 2 users I have ever seen.

So first a whole bunch of people got up and said, I'm never voting for Biden because he ruined the economy and fucked up on climate change and made marijuana illegal again and did family separation and caused Covid and also personally did a genocide and is super happy about the war in Gaza because it's exactly what he wanted

Then a second whole bunch of people said hey every single one of those things except part of the last one isn't true, also, Trump is worse on the genocide piece

And so now the first people are insisting that what the second people said was, "Don't criticize support for genocide". That wasn't the point. The fact that a good bit of what the people in the first group are saying, is wrong, means they get people disagreeing with them, which always gets misrepresented as some lunatic pro-genocide silencing of criticism. But it's pretty much never a message of "please stop criticizing my genocide guy otherwise Trump might win."

If you want to express urgency about helping the Palestinians, please do so. Send messages to your congresspeople. Vote "uncommitted." Go to a protest. Tell Biden he'll only get your vote if he (X, Y, Z). Any of those things, or something else. Sounds great.

I think the thing you're hearing is more "I want to end genocide just as much as you do, now let's talk about how to do it, and also yes how to avoid one that's 10 times worse that depending on how we go about it might be one of the possible outcomes." I don't see why that would be frustrating to hear. And I don't think it's at all the same as "please stop criticizing Biden that's not allowed" or anything like that. Most of the threads on this topic have their most upvoted comment as "Jesus Christ I wish he wouldn't do that" or something along those lines; this fiction where criticizing Biden for enabling this genocide is at all unpopular is not at all the reality.

I wonder if they think the Palestinians find it very convenient.

Actually, one of them weighed in on Lemmy on this exact narrative, where people are using his dead relatives to justify this one very particular political stance about being reluctant to vote for Joe Biden (and for some reason not to justify getting involved in some electoral or non-electoral way to actually help his relatives who are still alive). He wasn't about it.

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I think a lot of it is this weird parasocial thing where it's like you have to "support" a politician to vote for them. With very rare exceptions I don't "support" any US politician, like I'm friends with them. I just want to get as good an outcome as I can for me and the other people in the world, and I think that'll come from a combination of choosing better outcomes within the system that's presented, and working outside the system to try to change it to introduce as much actual democracy into it in the long run as is possible.

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There's already multiple commenters accusing them of being Trump supporters

Yes, because he framed his point in one particular emotionally resonant way that just maybe by pure coincidence tends to do more or less nothing at all for the Palestinians except hurt them, and by pure coincidence happens to feed Trump's chances in the election.

The strawman I was specifically responding to was that commenter "you're a Trump supporter if you call genocide genocide". I've called it a genocide many many times; never got called a Trump supporter. I've said Biden is enabling it, said all the Palestinians will be dead by the time he works his way around to real consequences for Netanyahu at this rate, compared the Biden State Department to the Nazis, lots of stuff. I said we should contact our representatives and left some links (not that it did a fuckin thing.) Linked to a Ralph Nader interview where he talked about how to demand concessions in exchange for your vote, to put pressure on elected officials like Biden, particularly as it applies to this genocide. Never got called a Trump supporter.

You know what I didn't do? Get all emotional about how I really don't want to vote for Biden now, and suggest a particular framing for the issue that will help Trump, but won't help the Palestinians. I suspect that if I started doing that, and did it consistently every day from a variety of different viewpoints and combined it with a bunch of other criticism of Biden that wasn't true, then people might suspect I was a Trump supporter. But I don't do that. Why? Because I'm not a Trump supporter.

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I mean, I exaggerated for humor, but people did absolutely say:

  • Biden ruined the economy
  • Biden fucked up on climate change
  • Biden betrayed us by not decriminalizing marijuana after he said he would
  • "Separating families at the border" got worse under Biden
  • Trump's Covid policy was amenable to people steering him the right way whereas Biden cancelled a bunch of the safety things we needed
  • Biden is the one doing the genocide

Aside from the genocide, the last few were so laughable that it's easy to conclude I just made them up as a pure strawman, but yes I absolutely had people tell me the un-exaggerated version of them.

Would it be better if I spelled out exactly what were the literal things people told to me instead? Yeah maybe I shouldn't "joke" in this way if I'm gonna be saying other people are using a strawman.

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There's a massive number of people coming in, a big increase, and the Republicans have been blocking increases in funding for the US law enforcement agencies that deal with them (which, the left gives him grief for because increasing funding for ICE means he's a monster), and increases in the number of judges so there's not this huge backlog. So yes, there's a huge number of people and not enough US resources to properly care for them.

I.e. migrants are being left in limbo in inhumane conditions for long lengths of time. However, Biden's attempted several times to solve that and been specifically prevented. It's hard for me to see that as something which he is deliberately doing on purpose.

I addressed the thing that you said, which was perfectly fair although I feel there's a reasonable reason for that situation which isn't Biden's fault. The thing the other person said to me wasn't that, though; it was specifically that Biden had made family separation worse, which is absurd.

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I think proactively committing to voting for a morally abhorrent candidate (a candidate promoting a morally abhorrent position, if you prefer) is less than submissive, it's actually giving up the only possible leverage you might have had in order to accept a reality that hasn't happened yet.

I talked about this - withholding your vote to put pressure on Biden and communicating to him effectively that that's what you're doing makes perfect sense to me. I linked to the Ralph Nader article where he talks about doing that.

If I thought Biden read Lemmy and would read my comments and react differently in Gaza, would I do my comments differently, so as to avoid taking the pressure off him that he's currently feeling? Yeah, maybe. Probably. I don't think that's the reality, but if I thought that, I probably would do my comments differently.

I'm just saying how I look at the election. Unless Biden had some sort of mental break that made him start acting worse than Trump in terms of what he'll do with power, I'm planning on voting for him. If I thought lying about that would create a positive impact in some way, then yeah, maybe I might. IDK. Maybe not. I definitely wouldn't be as vocal about how ok a job he's doing, yeah.

Proactively committing to not voting for preservation of American democracy and prevention of catastrophe around the world, because Netanyahu started a genocide and Biden hasn't caused a revolution in American statecraft by opposing it for the first time in history, doesn't make a ton of sense to me, though. Why is the genocide in Gaza a red line but preventing a genocide in Ukraine, or saving a million American lives from the next pandemic, or mitigating climate change (to whatever extent we even still can) moving the needle away from billions of lost lives in the not-too-distant future, why aren't those red lines?

It's absolutely a choice you are making, and even if you'd feel better if that didn't make you guilty of 'supporting' genocide, i think it's kind of self-evident.

It seems kind of weird to get all amped up about how great a job you're doing at not supporting genocide, by doing something that endangers Palestinians specifically but also apparently makes you feel better. I think I linked somewhere to a comment from someone who claimed to be Palestinian American who actually specifically asked Americans not to do this (use his dead relatives as justification for their political stance which was going to endanger him much more along with many of his still living relatives). It's on bestof if you didn't see it.

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Or, not inside the US

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I don't get it man.

The Republicans are calling for more and more cruelty (e.g. raising the bar for aslyum). Biden is trying to alleviate the exact conditions you're describing, in addition to compromising with them some of the cruelty you're asking for, and you're giving him shit for it.

What in your world should he do? Magic a bill into existence that will fix the conditions you're talking about, without getting it through congress or needing the support of the Republicans?

Why are you saying that weakening his position against the Republicans until things get better is the way for you to solve that problem? Are you happy with the babies waiting outside in the hot sun for months and months until your plan bears fruit, should he withdraw the current bill and go back to the drawing board and them just wait outside until your plan comes through?

mozz Admin ,
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Biden does not need an act of congress to not treat asylum-seekers like shit

In this case, he actually does.

Just like it was a deliberate choice to split up arms shipments to Israel into 100 seperate lots so he didn't have to report them to Congress.

Yeah, that one was some bullshit, 100% accurate.

mozz Admin , (edited )
mozz avatar

I do think that Trump would do a lot more damage to the Palestinians; that's true. This whole conversation took place before the current operation in Gaza. I think what the person I was talking to was talking about was a little more referring to effective diplomatic and strategic assistance to the Israelis, which Biden also does (and fuck him for it), which Trump is just inherently incapable of by virtue of being a dumbfuck on an almost unimaginable level.

In the long run, I think Trump and Netanyahu would be sort of neck and neck for who can do the most damage to Israel and make the average Israeli person less safe and interfere with Israel being able to accomplish their goals against any people who aren't completely powerless.

Majority of Americans wrongly believe US is in recession – and most blame Biden ( www.theguardian.com )

Nearly three in five Americans wrongly believe the US is in an economic recession, and the majority blame the Biden administration, according to a Harris poll conducted exclusively for the Guardian. The survey found persistent pessimism about the economy as election day draws closer....

mozz Admin ,
mozz avatar

don’t think a narrowing of the income inequality between races is the same as a generalized reduction in income inequality

Yeah, fair. The racial breakdown was just the first thing I found and I thought it was a good stand-in for breakdown by income levels. I just looked, and managed to find more of exactly what I was looking for -- a chart explicitly broken down by income level. It shows a huge boost in income for the bottom half of Americans.

your article on GINI tells the exact opposite story that you’re saying here. The headline says it all: pre-tax income inequality has fallen slightly (1.2% or so) but after people pay taxes, the income inequality actually ROSE!! Easily demonstrating the regressive nature of the tax structure.

Well, but that's not Biden's fault, is it? He came in with some monster economic problems, and they ate up some of the gains of the good things he was able to do, and this is another example. To me. I don't really know enough of the details of how the tax credits work to say that for sure, though, that's just sort of my first interpretation.

mozz Admin ,
mozz avatar

It’s the reason all these articles about how good the “economy” is doing might not be seen in the same light by people who are still struggling.

Yeah, makes sense. I do understand how "naw you're wrong the economy's actually getting better yay Biden" could lead to a pretty violently disagreeable reaction.

mozz Admin ,
mozz avatar

the additional 3 trillion from Biden is a major contributing factor

Do you think that Biden should have abruptly stopped Covid aid instead, as soon as he got into office?

The follow up of an additional approximately 1.5 trillion from the bills you listed doesn't help either though.

Fascinating

The assertion of almost everything I've read on any level about it was that they did help, since as I mentioned they were funded by increasing tax on wealthy corporations, so there's no reason to think they would have any effect at all on inflation, i.e. their main impact was to increase wages vs inflation.

What did you read / what did you listen to that gave you the impression that they didn't help, or that they had an impact on inflation?

mozz Admin ,
mozz avatar

This is a great little misleading factoid -- the missing piece being that inflation is also back to normal if you do include the cost of groceries, power, housing, and fuel.

The fact that they're excluded from the usual metric isn't some weird economic misleading-metric plot (although, those certainly exist). It's just that the CPI usually excludes those items because their prices can swing around in ways that are different from the ways that the baseline price of everything else swings around. But, if you include them in the analysis of what's happened since 2020, the answer doesn't change at all.

mozz Admin ,
mozz avatar

Absolutely accurate. Also means it's kind of silly to kick out (with no plan for a better replacement, and with specific plans for something much much worse) the guy who actually vice gripped them together by a little bit, though, or assert that he's hurting everyone on purpose and that they're actually still going apart and that's his fault and if you try to tell me any different then (hostility).

Usually, economic policies on the scale of the whole country take quite a while to kick in and really produce significant improvement even when you can get them through congress (which, a bunch of his more aggressive than this stuff, he couldn't).

mozz Admin ,
mozz avatar

So you're saying that groceries, power, and housing are NOT more expensive now than in 2020? Is that seriously what you're trying to make people believe??

I am saying that their prices have gone up pretty much by the same amount as the general CPI, including a huge spike upwards in 2022, which means that looking at the CPI without them is exactly the same (in this particular case) as looking at the CPI with them.

Stop. Read again.

I am saying that their prices have gone up pretty much by the same amount as the general CPI, including a huge spike upwards in 2022, which means that looking at the CPI without them is exactly the same (in this particular case) as looking at the CPI with them.

Makes sense, right? Or no? I'm happy to talk in a little more detail if you want.

Here are the numbers. It's complex, obviously, and some commodities will spike way, way up, or drop below 0% inflation and stay negative for a while. But it actually happens that if you average it all out, CPI with everything is right now more or less the same as CPI with the normal stuff excluded. Good things to highlight to see it are "All Items" or "Less Food and Energy" or "Shelter". Between those three, it'll give you a pretty good picture, and they all behave pretty much the same - a big hump after Covid from supply-chain shock and corporate greed, i.e. the situation Biden came in with, and then reducing steadily back down as Biden's policies got ahold of it.

Makes sense? Or no? Like I say, I'm happy to talk about the details.

mozz Admin ,
mozz avatar

Want to explain a little more?

mozz Admin ,
mozz avatar

Saying it has "nothing" to do with it is wrong; they're so deeply connected that you might as well use either or both, since racial disparity is fundamental enough to the American economy that they give the same answer.

But sure, it's fair to ask for something specifically about income level instead of by race; here's one by percentiles and here's the GINI coefficient over time.

mozz Admin ,
mozz avatar

Those are already inflation adjusted dollars - gains on the chart represent gains above inflation. The source is here with more explanation, and looking over it actually will show some important / upsetting caveats to what I said - just bear in mind that for some confusing reason, it is showing percentage change in a lot of its charts, instead of the raw underlying number.

And yeah I get that - I feel like I am becoming humorless and just yelling at people all the time good things about Biden. My feeling on it is more or less, why are you guys making me stick up for the Democrats I don’t even particularly like them. But it seems to me like people are spreading very specific malicious bullshit about them in this election, which is upsetting to me (because of the “bullshit” part and its potential impact on the US and the world if it swings the election, not because of the “Biden” part, if that makes sense).

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