snooggums ,
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

Uber was always intended to be taxis that ignore the laws and regulations of taxis and put all of the vehicle maintenance on the drivers who are paid through tips instead of Uber.

Not sure why anyone didn't see that from the very beginning.

ironhydroxide ,

The only thing it has "over" taxis is an app instead of a phone call to dispatch.

SonicDeathTaco ,

I can do that with my local taxi company anyway so they don't even have that to differentiate themselves.

ironhydroxide ,

That's cool. Where at?
I mean, I haven't seen any taxi in a place I've ever visited with an app.

And then there's the issue of knowing what app before you get there, or just trusting the sign on the side of the taxi, and subsequently the app to not farm your data.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ridecharge.android.taximagic&hl=en_US

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/curb-request-pay-for-taxis/id299226386

snooggums ,
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

Wait, you trust cab companies less them uber?

ironhydroxide ,

I don't trust Uber either.

PunnyName ,

When Uber first arrived, fuck yeah. Taxis would take stupid routes to run the meter up to overcharge you. Often the drivers were extremely belligerent or ornery for no same reason. Using taxis has been a terrible experience for many.

lordnikon ,

the other issue that Uber helped with in the beginning was mess with Mob controlled taxi cartels that used regulation as a shield that's why service was so poor. By skating those laws it put some market presure to improve slightly. but now that they got so big it's back to being cappy again and the mob has moved into that market as well now.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

the mob has moved into that market as well now.

Do you have a source for that?

Is it some niche thing or widespread?

lordnikon ,

maybe a niche thing to New York and is completely anecdotal from people i know but it's more those same cab companies moving into the ride share market.

14th_cylon ,

where do you think the drivers who don't even speak the language and look nothing like the face on the licence are getting the cars?

it is just that instead of exploiting them working in construction industry, they now exploit them behind the wheel.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

That's not a source.

14th_cylon ,

Go to uber recruitment center, tell them you don't have a car or bussines licence and ask if they can do something for you. See what happens.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

That's also not a source.

14th_cylon ,

yes, it is. first hand experience is the best source you can have.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

No, it's not.

14th_cylon ,

go back to kindergarten, clown

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

No one likes you.

jaybone ,

You mean the mob has moved into the Uber market?

lordnikon ,

yeah as in the same taxi companies and their drivers use the app as drivers on top of taxi rides.

jaybone ,

So if you order an Uber they might show up in a taxi?

lordnikon ,

yeah or black towncar not all taxi companies are yellow with checkered stripes. they will have all the logos on the outside or in the window. Uber, Lift they run them all. They run fleets with exploited immigrants and take their cut just like the mob is known to do.

Jarix ,

Hack the Planet! Hack the planet!

Sorry I have zero cool

cm0002 ,

Fuck yea, fuck Taxis

An entire industry that's playing the victim. People around here are romanticizing taxis, but the shit they pulled was just as bad, if not worse than what Uber does.

Biggest difference is their drivers were complicit in the shenanigans and primarily targeted their customers. Taking LONG routes because their customer "wasn't local", saying a route will "probably be 10$" and then it's 50 and "the meter says what it says man".

They literally used strict regulations as a shield to hold local monopolies for decades which resulted in terrible downright scammy service, cash only for an unacceptable amount of time, 0 innovations, dirty ancient barely running cars, a dispatch who would constantly say a car "was just around the corner" for 2 hours

The taxi industry doesn't give a fuck about you, they're just mad because they didn't think to do what Uber is doing and now they're dying.

Fuck Uber AND Taxis, they both can rot in hell, but I don't mind seeing taxis get there first.

Jarix ,

You can now... Because uber and lyft finally forced them to change

ironhydroxide ,

Thinking about this.... I wonder if the fediverse could be used for an "open source" app, to then hail and track a taxi in whatever area you're in....

Of course adoption would be the hardest part, but any taxi service could host their own server (even single driver operations) and anyone with an app that interfaces with the system could hail a taxi.

Privacy would be difficult, as, inherently you need to somehow inform the taxi where you are and possibly who to expect. And anyone in the system could potentially monitor anyone else.

I'd say that payments should be outright blocked from the system. Taxi should have to do that separately.

explodicle ,

Not incorporating payments into the system makes fraud prevention a lot harder, though.

Krauerking ,

I mean that actually was one of the things that made them so great. Tracking, arrival timer and an easy app.

Literally those being things that the taxi companies had to push to replicate is a good thing it's a shame we had to give up the idea of properly funded labor and job protection to get it.

snooggums ,
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

we had to give up the idea of properly funded labor and job protection to get it.

We didn't have to, and we can always take it back.

commandar ,

Tracking, arrival timer and an easy app.

The fact that they would actually show up.

Where I live, before Uber you needed to call the cab company at least an hour before you wanted to get anywhere (in a city that you can get pretty much anywhere in 15 minutes). The dispatcher would tell you someone will be there in 20 minutes and, if you were lucky, somebody might show up in 45. Before Uber, there was more than one occasion where I ended up stranded downtown until 4 or 5am after the bars had closed at 3:00.

Being able to request a ride, having someone reliably show up, and show up reasonably close to when they said they would was an absolute game changer at the time.

Aceticon , (edited )

Which is both a good point and quite a different scenario from what's being illustrated here which is just Uber's version of a taxi stand, and literally the final brick in them going around taxi regulations.

The problem was never when Uber provided something that wasn't being provided, it was when they provided a regulation-free version (early on their drivers were wholly unvetted and many would be driving people around in cars with no commercial insurance and hence the Insurer could deny paying compensation to the passenger in the case of accident) of what was already in the Market by using the laws for Rental Cars With Drivers to avoid the laws for Taxis.

Their business model from the start was just gaining an advantage against established players using Regulatory Avoidance, even if in some situations they did provide a better service rather than just an unregulated version (and hence cheaper because all kinds of costly rules done for the safety of customers weren't obbeyed) of the same thing.

14th_cylon ,

The fact that they would actually show up.

unless you see the uber car circling around you on the map, then canceling the ride and cashing in the "cancelation fee"

The dispatcher would tell you someone will be there in 20 minutes and, if you were lucky, somebody might show up in 45. Before Uber, there was more than one occasion where I ended up stranded downtown until 4 or 5am after the bars had closed at 3:00.

yeah, but this is not an invention of uber. it is just that we got the to point where technology allowed what was not possible before. yes, uber was faster to adapt it than traditional taxi industry, but they are not doing it for your blue eyes, they are doing it for profit and they do lot of shady stuff to achieve it.

commandar ,

unless you see the uber car circling around you on the map, then canceling the ride and cashing in the “cancelation fee”

That's a relatively new phenomenon as people have learned how to game the system. The reliability of Uber when they first launched was complete night and day.

yes, uber was faster to adapt it than traditional taxi industry, but they are not doing it for your blue eyes, they are doing it for profit and they do lot of shady stuff to achieve it.

I never said otherwise. I was merely providing an example of why Uber gained adoption early on. The service was materially better than what taxi companies were delivering at the time in many places. I experienced that first hand.

14th_cylon ,

That’s a relatively new phenomenon

that's definitely going on for at least 5 years

I was merely providing an example of why Uber gained adoption early on.

ok, from that point of view it definitely makes sense

commandar ,

that’s definitely going on for at least 5 years

Keyword: relatively.

Uber's been around 15 years.

14th_cylon ,

has

had

snooggums ,
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

Originally it was also cheaper for the customer because it was subsidized by venture capital.

xpinchx ,

In Chicago all the big taxi companies have apps

jaybone ,

The only reason I even started using Uber is because of taxi’s shitty dispatch system. All they had to do was write an app (or really some third party could have written it and then sold it to local cab companies) and they never would have been whining and complaining for years on end about how Uber turk der jerb.

deathbird ,

And a transparent price up front.

It's annoying enough to get in a vehicle and not know how much it'll cost by the end of the trip (would you do this on a bus? Would you let an airline change the price of a ticket mid-flight?), but there's something viscerally galling about watching some asshole take a longer route just to pad out the fare. Last I checked, when Lyft or Uber gives you a price, that's the price.

Nougat ,

And relieve corporate from all sorts of other liabilities, placing those on the individual drivers, too.

Workers' Comp claims? Malfeasance (driver or passenger)? Health insurance? Paid time off? Vehicle insurance? All fall to the driver.

Jarix ,

And they had thousands if not millions of drivers (worldwide) who didn't give a shit about any of those things either.

So they had a ready made work force waiting to be just as shitty people as the taxi companies by not giving a fuck about those things either.

And that's where opportunity is often found. Covered in shit

bjoern_tantau ,
@bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

I mean, enough countries did see that and those are the countries were Uber didn't manage to push away taxis.

Aceticon ,

Once cabbies got their own apps, the only market advantage Uber had was lower costs because of not obbeying regulations, which wasn't there in those contries which forced Uber to obbey the same regulations as cabbies.

RecallMadness ,

Not entirely true.

In some countries (UK, NZ) Uber has to give you the price of the journey up front. Whereas taxis are metered and do not.

Uber UK has competition in thin regard with Minicabs, but the minicab apps are still shit.

Capped costs for consumers is a competitive advantage over taxis, and Uber has managed to find the sweet spot between hailing a taxi, and booking a minicab.

deathbird ,

Up front pricing is almost always going to be more attractive than metered pricing.

If you offer me metered pricing, I'm going to assume you'll charge 20% extra.

ChocoboRocket ,

People saw it, but if you remember Taxis before Uber it wasn't exactly great either.

No-shows, demanding flat rates double what the meter would charge/refusing service, various forms of harassment, etc.

Turns out when there is very little competition, businesses treat their customers like shit.

Uber definitely does some things better than traditional taxis. Things like work flexibility are great, but workers still need better protections and pay (aka, a union).

bolexforsoup , (edited )

I think a lot of people also forget that taxis in San Francisco, which was basically the impetus forUber’s creation, were fucking horrible at the time. Things have changed a lot since then. But the one thing I will credit Uber with is making taxis functional again.

One thing I distinctly remember from the times I was working out there was how terrified I was to be in their cars. There was absolutely no vetting of drivers, and Uber distinguished itself by doing that at the time (also pretty sure it required a higher level license, UberX came later which allowed basically anyone to drive).

Let me be crystal clear here since I know folks are going to skim my comment and think I am an apologist for Uber and just go off: fuck Uber. They are a terrible company. If you really need to ride in a car, take a taxi.

Steve ,

We did see it. Everyone saw it, and it worked anyway.

snooggums ,
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

Most of the people I know in person that spoke highly of it when it first started up referred to it as an alternate to cabs because it was totally different. The fact that people still refer to it as 'ride sharing' is a sign that people do think it is something different than taxis.

A lot of us saw it, but I don't think the majority of people saw it.

Steve ,

I think a lot of people saw it and let it happen because taxis suck

SnokenKeekaGuard ,
@SnokenKeekaGuard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Off topic but the worst effect of uber imo has been in poorer countries with no public transport.

First uber started and it was a rich kids thing. Then it grew and added uber bike which was cheap and uber became more mainstream.

Then came the inevitable knock offs, cheap uber alternates that give 0 fucks about quality control, allow anyone to drive on it or what vehicle is registered. Absolutely no standards but cheaper.

Then uber packs bag and leaves while people are now stuck with these terrible services.

Like sexual assault complaints by their drivers are ignored. Drivers stealing money is ignored. Uber actually took that stuff seriously.

Num10ck ,

sounds like theres a good market opportunity to start a decent competitor there

jaybone ,

When was Uber a rich kids thing?

SnokenKeekaGuard ,
@SnokenKeekaGuard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

2016-17 over here.

Rozauhtuno ,
@Rozauhtuno@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Technobros and reinventing something that already exists, but worse.

Name a more iconic duo.

JoMiran ,
@JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

Name a more iconic duo.

Tech bros and inventing something superfluous that nobody asked for that will literally bring misery, suffering and death.

Samvega ,

"If only you'd listened to us!" whine the techbros as the things they did made the world worse, but they pretend to have had the solutions all along anyway.

IsThisAnAI ,

People have been asking for accountability with taxis for decades. Y'all have lost your mind if you actually think the service side of the industry is somehow worse.

pennomi ,

Thinking Uber is worse than taxis shows how little people remember about how bad they really were.

afraid_of_zombies ,

They aren't thinking. They are looking for things to whine about to justify their failed existence.

Sour grapes, resentment, call it what you want. Easier to devalue the success of others vs achieve something of your own.

IsThisAnAI ,

You live in a crazy reality. Taxis but worse 🤣

Lets_Eat_Grandma ,

A taxi that doesn't play games with the meter, that always takes a credit card, and that has a rating system that harshly punishes drivers with bad attitudes.

The problem with it is Uber's cut.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I would say lack of a union is a bigger problem. Most of what you say isn't really true about taxis anymore, but even if it were, that doesn't justify Uber fucking over its employees.

morrowind ,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

This could also be solved with a little more competition tbh. The same system that allows Uber to exploit drivers lets them jump ship with literally zero effort

explodicle ,

What we need is a p2p ridesharing that cuts out the corporate middleman. Ratings would have solved all the problems with taxis.

Skates ,

My city's taxi system was completely changed by Uber, as were many parts of the country. So while it might not be true anymore, and taxi drivers with bad attitudes and those fudging the meter might have been mostly weeded out, it's because of Uber that this happened. And it's because of their unions that it hadn't happened before. But the moment there started being some competition in town as opposed to their previous monopoly on the market, they had to back down if they wanted to even survive, let alone come out on top over Uber.

So while yes, uber employees are being fucked over, that has less of an impact on things than you imply. I'll still get an Uber/Bolt instead of a taxi 9/10 times, because immoral business practices are still better than immoral & illegal practices backed by a monopoly that you are powerless to change.

entropicshart ,

Very much agree with this.
I still remember coming out of the airport and thinking I’ll just grab a taxi instead of ordering a ride!

  • got shit from the taxi driver for not paying cash (and watched them use the old school paper carbon copy of my card),
  • listened to them grumble the whole time about how there was traffic,
  • got to ride in a car that had duct tape on the seat and no working AC
  • and experience a ride that made me wonder how long until they lost their license

All this without any ability to give feedback or a rating to the driver.

That was the last time I ever used a taxi.

Lev_Astov ,
@Lev_Astov@lemmy.world avatar

And I still haven't seen any taxis yet that offered Uber's transparency about trip cost before committing.

Deebster ,
@Deebster@lemmy.ml avatar

And a way to contact drivers if you'd just something in the car, and a system to notify others of your route and progress.

JamesTBagg ,

Last time I tried a taxi was because and Uber or Lyft was going to take 20 minutes to get to us (waiting? Gross.) I'm close to the air port, 15 minute ride home. Uber or Lyft would have been $30. The taxi was going to cost me $140. For a 15 minute drive? Get fucked. Dude is driving for almost $600 an hour?

Aceticon ,

Uber has variable pricing, whilst taxis do not (it's the whole point of the meter, which is why shady types try to "play games" with it).

Nowadays taxis will also take credit cards (I guess in some countries maybe some don't).

Agree on the superiority of having a rating system, though.

deathbird ,

An Uber will never pick you up and tell you "My credit card reader is broken" at the end of the ride after driving you in circles.

chocoladisco ,

Thats a pity, because I don't have cash on me.

dustyData ,

Disruption!

It actually just means to undercut an existing industry with venture capital, taking on a loss until the existing competition is out-priced out of the market. Then once a monopoly is established, tear down quality service, hike up prices, shaft costumers and use the money to pay huge bonuses to the executives. If the company is still profitable afterwards then just recreate the same old industry and competitors but with an iron grip monopoly. If it is not profitable, just sell the company and distribute the dividends amongst the C suite. Rinse and repeat.

Aceticon ,

Actually in the old days a lot of "disruption" was basically removing middlement: for example putting a newspaper online avoids having to pay a commission to the newspaper stand.

It's just that in the last 2 decades it's mostly been Regulatory Avoidance instead of removing middlemen: basically exploiting new technology and a gap in existing legislation to avoid regulation altogether, such as how Uber's service is not legally a Taxi Service but rather a Driven Rental Car Service because people "book" them rather than physically hailing one on the street and similary AirBnB is not a Hostel, it's a Short-Term Let Service because of how you have to book upfront.

You also see a lot of leveraging of Networking Effects and brand name (both anti-competitive Market imperfections, especially the former) to quash small operators without actually delivering significant improvements, for example in food delivery or even Social Media (if you consider normal websites as "small operators").

YaksDC , (edited )
@YaksDC@lemm.ee avatar

In live in DC and I wish we had a well functioning taxi system here. The airport is about the only place you can reliably get one. If I want to get picked up at home there is no one number to call since every taxi is independent and the Curb app is worth shit. When I do get a cab from the airport the experience is on par with Lyft and usually cheaper.

afraid_of_zombies ,

The taxi driver union is a joke, almost no driver is a member of it.

I don't know if you want your taxes so bad just keep using them. They smell like ass, huge vehicles that guzzle gas, have ads that won't stop playing, don't take credit/debit card, charge insane amounts, but if this is what you really fucking want go use it.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That doesn't sound like a good excuse for Uber to pay its drivers shit and not accept any responsibility for anything bad that might happen to them.

cm0002 ,

It isn't, they're both shit.

The taxi industry used strict regulations as a shield to hold local monopolies for decades which resulted in terrible downright scammy service, cash only for an unacceptable amount of time (and STILL is cash only in many places), 0 innovations, dirty ancient smelly barely running cars, a dispatch who would constantly say a car "was just around the corner" for 2 hours.

Even now they can't get their head out of their ass to make a proper app in 2024 that just tells you how much you're going to pay. Last time I tried out one of those taxi "apps" last year:

It wouldn't tell you where or how long till the taxi got to you

It would only give you an "estimated price range" (FUCK THAT)

It looked like it was from 2013 and they got a "nephew who knows computers" to make it

Fuck Uber, but at least when Uber tells me a price, that's the price that gets charged (excluding tip). At least I know where the Uber car is and when it's getting to me. At least the Uber driver can't screw around with routes and fares.

So really the choices for a taxi-like service are between a shit sandwich and a giant douche. Ugh, I'm just going to start renting cars.

Perfide ,

Ugh, I'm just going to start renting cars.

As if the rental car industry isn't full of BS, too.

Evotech ,

At least Uber challenged the system, a system which desperately needed innovation. it was highly disruptive to the taxi market. And the taxi market is better off for it.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Apart from Uber drivers being paid a lot less and having no one to give them any sort of legal protection or compensation if something goes wrong.

Evotech ,

I'm taking about the taxi market. I can now order normal ass taxies where I live though an app, see who accepts and track the car, pay through the app.

And these will be fully licensed taxies

cm0002 ,

What mythical app does your local taxis have.

Every single taxi "app" I've ever used have been shit. Just last year I tried one out, and the best it did (besides looking like it walked straight outta 2013 UI's in 2023) was give me an "estimated price range" which again left too much room for the cabbie to fuck with the meter/routes.

And they used those strict regulations as a shield to hold local monopolies for decades which resulted in terrible downright scammy service, cash only for an unacceptable amount of time, 0 innovations, dirty ancient barely running cars, a dispatch who would constantly say a car "was just around the corner" for 2 hours

Evotech ,

Bolt to name one

cm0002 ,

That's a ride hailing app, it's just another Uber/Lyft. It's not a taxi.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/41c84c78-9e2f-4c80-9836-8c06491da612.png

Evotech ,

Well, it uses taxis here

cm0002 ,

Nah, fuck taxis I'm never going to get in another scammy cab ever again.

cm0002 ,

Fuck Taxis and Uber

An entire industry that's playing the victim. Stop falling for it and stop romanticizing taxis, the shit they pulled was just as bad, if not worse than what Uber does.

Biggest difference is their drivers were complicit in the shenanigans and primarily targeted their customers. Taking LONG routes because their customer "wasn't local", saying a route will "probably be 10$" and then it's 50 and "the meter says what it says man".

They literally used strict regulations as a shield to hold local monopolies for decades which resulted in terrible downright scammy service, cash only for an unacceptable amount of time, 0 innovations, dirty ancient barely running cars, a dispatch who would constantly say a car "was just around the corner" for 2 hours

The taxi industry doesn't give a fuck about you, they're just mad because they didn't think to do what Uber is doing and now they're dying. When/If Uber/Lyft dies, I guarantee the Taxi industry will resurge for the worst and take pages out of Ubers playbook. It's just going to go back to the wait it was before.

Fuck Uber AND Taxis, they both can rot in hell, but I don't mind seeing taxis get there first.

CheeseNoodle ,

The taxi industry hates you and buffalo buffalo buffalo Ubers main competative advantage is just breaking the law. Everyone sucks.

Chocrates ,

Lol what

Wogi ,

Buffalo Buffalo Buffalo is upstate New York for "yada yada yada"

It's a dismissive. Meant to say "everything you said is basically the same as the first thing you said."

Classy ,

I thought it was about bison from New York bullying taxi drivers

arken ,

That might also be true. You never know.

CheeseNoodle ,

Nah its just gramatically correct nonsense to fuck with LLMs. interesting tidbit about the buffalo buffalo buffalo new york turn of phrase though.

SLVRDRGN ,

Tbf, yada yada yada is much easier to say than buffalo buffalo buffalo.

cm0002 ,

main competative advantage is just breaking the law

If you're talking employment law, then yea for sure

If you're taking laws like those that cap taxis licenses arbitrarily that the Taxi industry pushed for so that bigger companies could buy them all up and establish a monopoly, then I can look the other way on those

Katzastrophe ,
@Katzastrophe@feddit.org avatar

Dude, my driving instructor charged less than a Taxi and that guy was charging in the triple digits per hour, it is insane as to how Taxis are still in business. Who the hell pays those prices?

Kiosade ,

I don’t know but probably the same people that use the Uber Eats type services. Seriously, how are people affording to pay $25 for a $10 meal?

chiliedogg ,

The ndo Uber Eats a few times a week at work. It's 100% about the time required to do anything else.

The average new house in the city I work for is about 6 million dollars, so I live about 90-minutes away in normal traffic where I can pay $750/month in rent. I work lots of hours (start at 8, usually leave between 6 and 8 with no real break between), so I'm looking at 14-16 hours between when I leave the house in the morning and when I return home. I also think ach night classes at the University on Mondays during the fall and Spring semesters, and have 3 night meetings a month between Council and Planning and Zoning. On the weekends I drive a couple hundred miles out of town to help with my parents.

If paying triple for a meal occasionally saves me 15-20 minutes it's often absolutely worth it for the stress relief.

Kiosade ,

Damn dude, I don’t know how you do all that! In any case I was just wondering more how people can afford to spend triple like… every day. Assuming one $30 delivered meal every day in a 30 day month, that’s $900 a month!

Rediphile ,

$900 a month is quite affordable compared to hiring a private chef. It's all relative.

I'm cheap af, but that doesn't make me 'right'. If I made $1000/h or something it would make complete sense to pay $30 for a $10 meal each day if it saved me even just 15 minutes of effort that could be put towards working instead. In that case, I'd argue it would be 'wrong' and wasteful economically not to use the service.

PopShark ,

Very good point!

Kiosade ,

Yeah true. I guess these people I see ordering it all the time must be doing pretty well for themselves, especially considering how much the rents at my apartment complex are 😅

plantedworld ,

Once took a taxi downtown with my family when we were in a different city, and the drive home was twice as much as the drive there (second driver took a different route). My dad challenged him on it and he backed down an accepted the same fare as the first driver.

Same company, same rates, just a dbag driver

dejected_warp_core ,

they’re just mad because they didn’t think to do what Uber is doing and now they’re dying.

That and they're mad because their virtual monopoly status didn't protect them from market disruption. They just sat back, assuming that there was no way these rogue taxi services were going to evade the law for long. The fact that an entire industry acted on such a bad take suggests, to me, a lot of anti-competitive bullshit behind the scenes.

Anyway, I agree. All they had to do was either add rideshare-like features to their service, merge with rideshare services, or become one themselves. The investment capital was clearly there, and making a modernization pitch with brand recognition of an established taxi company would have been a slam-dunk.

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

I am once again asking for widespread public transportation

greyw0lv ,

I like trains.

bjoern_tantau ,
@bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

https://swg-empire.de/pictrs/image/af62f41e-5b04-4119-878f-15674f7c81f2.gif

istanbullu ,

Uber exists in countries where taxicab services were terrible. Uber is not competitive in countries where taxicabs were already good.

IsThisAnAI ,

Because the taxis would scam you on the price. Or his card reader would be magically broken. Or they'd take you half way around the city crossing as many zones as possible.

Uber brought accountability. Any improvements traditional taxi that had been made with apps are because of Uber.

Chocrates ,

Yes but don't forget about the shareholder value that Uber is bringing! Or will bring when they bankrupt all the competition and then ratchet up the prices so the hedge funds can recoup their losses

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6950645a-8d47-448c-ae1e-d2ebed08760d.png

jaybone ,

Who needs fire when everything is on fire?

SLVRDRGN ,

Things kindle naturally, that's what they'll tell ya.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

What is stopping an uber competitor?

Zoot ,
@Zoot@reddthat.com avatar

The capital required to run at a loss for x amount of years, until Uber goes bankrupt.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

Do they have to run at a loss? They could take 20% rather than ubers 30%.

friendlymessage ,

Uber was bleeding money for years, they were not profitable until very recently. How would a competitor be profitable if they exploit their drivers less? Especially because Uber only had to fight Taxis, a competitor would have to fight Taxis and Uber

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

Uber seems to be a middleman that can be removed by technology

It sounds so plausible but it doesn't exist. There must be a fatal flaw, but I can't see it.

friendlymessage ,

Oh my god, I fought the urge to stop reading when I read Blockchain and read further and it kept getting worse.

Uber takes over some tasks that a distributed system cannot easily do:

  • Handle disputes between driver and customer
  • Vetting drivers
  • Monitoring cars so that if a driver abducts you authorities can find you
  • Taking over development and maintenance of the system
  • Marketing

The article shows no practical solution for any of these problems. Many of the so-called solutions are down-right comical. For example:

As soon as the driver adds the basic information, the legal authorities are notified through smart contracts to perform background checks on the created profile.

So vetting shall be done by the state instead of a company. So instead of customers, tax payers should pay for it. I'm sure governments will be lining up to take on the responsibility and for me as a tax payer: hell no! I want my taxes to go into public transport and not into this bullshit.

Also, let's be gracious and assume that blockchains and smart contracts in general solve a problem that actually exists, you would need smart contracts in case there is no neutral third party that can verify the validity of something. Why would you need that for a process where legal authorities are already involved? If you have an actual authority involved there's an easier and faster solution: a database. Doesn't sound as sexy does it?

Similarly, the legal authorities would conduct the same due diligence checks for the riders to ensure the safety of drivers as well.

Lol, sure they will.

When the rider reaches the desired destination, the ride will end automatically. The payment from the rider’s wallet will be deducted automatically through smart contracts and transferred to the driver’s wallet.

GPS locations can be forged easily. How would such a system reliably without a third party authority determine whether the ride ended? Scams in this system from both parties would be rampant.

And from a customer perspective: why would I need a crypto wallet for this shit? I want to use my credit card! So I need a third party to handle the payment and I sure as hell am not trusting a random driver with no oversight with my credit card information.

So to sum it up: that system solves actually none of the problems. You still need third parties involved such as payment providers and authorities, stuff Uber handles for you. You still need a third party handling disputes, which is unsolved in this article and you still need massive investment in R&D (more than a classical system) and marketing but now without a business model as an incentive for anyone to actually do this. Then you get even more problems because now you need to get government authorities involved. As you have no company with resources backing this, there is nobody capable of negotiating with these governments. Not to mention tech support to actually set up the system.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,
  • Handle disputes between driver and customer

Agreed. This human service is required, but it's not worth 30% of every fare.

Vetting drivers

Not sure this is necessary. A reputation system can be built from drivers, customers and IoT devices.

Monitoring cars so that if a driver abducts you authorities can find you

Uber has no advantage in this area.

Taking over development and maintenance of the system

Yes, this could be the main stumbling block.

Marketing

Less relevant in today's world. How much marketing did chatgpt need.

The article shows no practical solution for any of these problems.

I don't think it was meant to. It was just to introduce the possibility of an Uber killer.

So vetting shall be done by the state instead of a company.

Agreed. A dedicated company (or series of companies) could do this one off service, rather than the state.

you would need smart contracts in case there is no neutral third party that can verify the validity of something.

Agreed. A human arbitration service would be useful. AI isn't good enough yet.

Why would you need that for a process where legal authorities are already involved?

Agreed. Escalation to the proper legal authorities is an option for both Uber and this theoretical competitor.

If you have an actual authority involved there's an easier and faster solution: a database. Doesn't sound as sexy does it?

No. Databases don't do arbitration.

GPS locations can be forged easily.

Not on multiple devices including WiFi data.

How would such a system reliably without a third party authority determine whether the ride ended?

When both parties agree. Like they do now.

Scams in this system from both parties would be rampant.

No different from now.

Why would I need a crypto wallet for this shit? I want to use my credit card!

Why would I need a credit card for this shit? I want to use my crypto wallet and pay less fees to middlemen.

So I need a third party to handle the payment

With a credit card, yes.

I sure as hell am not trusting a random driver with no oversight with my credit card information.

Are now arguing for crypto?

You still need third parties involved such as payment providers

False

and authorities,

Always true.

You still need a third party handling disputes

Agreed.

now you need to get government authorities involved.

Disagree.

Not to mention tech support to actually set up the system.

Yes, this is probably the killer. The people setting this up can't profit from it.

Imgonnatrythis ,

Except taxis take cash and don't track your trips in an irreovacble database. I'll take anonymous transport whenever it's a reasonable option.

kameecoding ,

All fun and games until you are given a ride around town and asked for x times your cash

LodeMike ,

?

kameecoding ,

Taxis like to scam tourists.

LodeMike ,

Yeah

Maggoty ,

And you think that's not possible with rideshare? All they have to do is drive through a "checkpoint" and split whatever they get from you. To Uber the driver was a victim too.

Imgonnatrythis ,

You ever had that happen in the post GPS in your pocket era? If so, how (lots of alcohol?).

kameecoding ,

if you have your gps on in your pocket, what difference does it make whether Uber/Lyft is tracking you or Google/Apple?

assuming of course you are looking at your map, which is either google maps, waze or apple maps

Imgonnatrythis ,

You can run GPS w/out a cell signal. GPS is not tracking you. Also, it's more of just a question of premise. I've taken a lot of cabs and never had this issue and it's hard to imagine them thinking they will get away with driving shenanigans in the modern era. Has this happened to you or just an old boomer tale?

kameecoding ,

Taxis literally refused to take us after arriving in Budapest because we speak Hungarian and one of us studied there so had the Budapest accent too and everyone of them was all of a sudden busy and waiting for someone (they were literally just standing around smoking)

The original commenter was complaining about privacy issues with ridesharing apps, so I am not sure what cell signal has to do with anything?
Having gps on is literally useless unless you check your google maps or waze or something that you are not taken on a ride around and all of those track you so have the same privacy issues as alluded to by the original commenter I don't think I can make my point any clearer.

Also if you think this doesn't happen in less developed countries then you are extremely naive.

Imgonnatrythis ,

You either don't understand what literally means or don't understand GPS.

kameecoding ,

thank you for contributing nothing to the conversation

Yawweee877h444 ,

Where the fuck are you going, or what are you doing, to where you don't want your taxi trips tracked?

I understand privacy and stuff, but sometimes people take it and "muh freedoms" way too seriously overboard.

bane_killgrind ,

You can't imagine famous people, federal investigators, Union organisers, protected witnesses, or literally anybody else that wouldn't want their movements trackable by a company or anybody that company gets hacked by?

Yawweee877h444 ,

Of course I can, did you even read my comment?

I understand privacy and stuff, but sometimes people take it and "muh freedoms" way too seriously overboard.

I never said there might not be legitimate reasons to avoid tracking. I'm saying sometimes it's taken too seriously to the point of silliness and forgoing convenience for the sake of "I don't want the gub'ment tracking me" freedom nonsense. There will be times when it makes sense, there will be times when it's just silly.

bane_killgrind ,

That's not how privacy works though. You either have it when you don't need it or don't have it when you need it. You don't just get it when you need it.

It's not silliness to presume that you could eventually be in some situation where you need a high amount of privacy.

Maybe if you don't actually participate in society, there's some life circumstances that mean you would never need privacy. There's probably like a hundred people alive like that. I don't think they take taxis.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

Let's put it another way. How much do you think you should be paid to have your movements tracked?

LodeMike ,

He's visiting your mom (punishable by death)

Potatos_are_not_friends ,

Whores and coke.

Imgonnatrythis ,

After my comment do you think I'm the type to disclose that to you?

JoeBigelow ,
@JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca avatar

And you leave your phone at home right?

Xero ,
@Xero@infosec.pub avatar

Which is why I prefer them.

explodicle ,

I'm not sure if anyone else here has mentioned this... At least up until Uber/Lyft came out, taxis were suuuuper racist. It was really hard for black men to hail taxis.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That is true. In the 90s, Michael Moore had a TV show where he did a segment showing the actor Yaphet Kotto trying to get a cab in increasingly ridiculous ways and not getting picked up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-z2uLX0FHk

Lev_Astov ,
@Lev_Astov@lemmy.world avatar

And also super expensive. I've had times where it was half the price to rent a car for the day than to get one taxi from the airport.

sunbeam60 ,

In every single way Ubers are more convenient than a taxi. It’s amazing to me that taxi companies can’t see all the little improvements that going by Uber brings.

dependencyinjection ,

Unless you’re the driver.

sunbeam60 ,

100% agreed. I’m not condoning Uber. I’m saying taxi companies should be better at copying the convenience of Uber.

dependencyinjection ,

I guess it depends where you are. In my city there is a taxi company that started buying lots of smaller ones. They now have an app like Uber so you can order it and see where it is. Because they bought so many firms they’re everywhere and considerably cheaper than Uber. I guess it’s only viable in large cities.

Chetzemoka ,
@Chetzemoka@lemmy.world avatar

Only took the cab companies ten years to catch on to what they should have done as soon as Uber came on the scene. If cab companies had innovated like this, they would have killed Uber in the cradle.

dependencyinjection ,

It’s a lot harder for smaller businesses to invest in that level of development without hedge fund money and trying to corner the market.

If a small taxi company is making £100k profit a year it’s a big ask to invest £20k+ on developer to compete with Uber for what? A small increase in profit.

You need to expand as well as innovate. Hence the one taxi company near me buying out others to have a larger market.

Chetzemoka ,
@Chetzemoka@lemmy.world avatar

Multiple companies could have pooled resources to fund developing an app that they all used. They have existing inventory, employees, local government connections. They definitely could have outcompeted Uber if they had been able to get their heads out of their asses and even try.

Instead they ignorantly tried to kill Uber by suppressing innovation and service improvements that everyone wanted, which was doomed to fail from the start. They dug their own graves on this one.

dependencyinjection ,

And wages? They couldn’t pay the drivers as little as Uber by making them contractors.

Chetzemoka ,
@Chetzemoka@lemmy.world avatar

Uber wouldn't have been able to keep customers if big name, well-established taxi companies had really tried to compete with them. Middle aged adults (like me) would not have been inclined to jump into a stranger's car no matter how cheap it was, if it was just as easy to get a licensed cab.

Riven ,

That's exactly what banks did for quick money transfer. (not that they're small businesses but) The mayor banks in the US got together made a joint company and created Zelle to compete with cashapp and all he other quick money transfer apps.

CasualPenguin ,

About 10 years a go I missed two flights for work because the taxi I had scheduled in advance never showed, and when I called dispatch they said 'he found a better fair, he's allowed to do that's

When I explained this to my neighbor who drove cabs be was still angry with me for switching to Lyft, but also agreed with the dispatch. Cabs don't want to change, which sucks because I wish there was more competition

dubyakay ,

Sure, Uber brought competition. But in certain places they got banned and the local taxi authority greatly improved on the service, learning from the gig apps' offerings.

Potatos_are_not_friends ,

I'm a brown dude. I have so many stories about bad taxi experiences. From Taxi drivers refusing to pick me up, to them going, "You're lucky to be in my car", to "I'm not driving there. Get out."

Around 2017 and was very upset at Uber, I took a taxi from the airport. The guy refused to drive until we had more people in the car. I said this wasn't a car share, and he told me to go take a bus. When I started getting a Uber, he apologized and took me, but then bitched about it the whole drive that he was losing money.

Uber and Lyft changed it all.

Cleaner cars. No attitudes. Agreed upon destination and fair.

I have no sympathy for taxis.

PopShark ,

Thanks for sharing your experience even though I know it can’t feel good typing it all out.

TwoBeeSan ,

Back in the day Opie and Anthony tested this.

Patrice o Neal with a gold chain vs Anthony cumia in a nazi helmet

Cumia got more cabs.

nokturne213 ,
@nokturne213@sopuli.xyz avatar

The fact Ant had a nazi helmet does not surprise me at all.

TwoBeeSan ,

Oh yeah he was probably thrilled lol.

I still see his senility show pop up in my feed occasionally. Would unsub but not sure I'll find out he's dead otherwise lol

TrueMonoxidist ,

Was looking for this comment. Racism was extremely pervasive in certain areas.

The biggest reason Uber and Lyft took off is cabs sucked for the most part. Uber and Lyft aren’t great either, but people forget how bad Taxis were at that time.

EatATaco ,

I remember one time, in Boston, I (white dude) was downstream of a black guy.

Cabbie went right by the black guy and stopped for me.

Black guy came running up and slashed his tire and then ran off.

I was like "cabby deserved it, but at the same time black guy justified it."

MindTraveller ,

Not really a justified decision if it was the wrong one. The cabbie got his tires slashed by being a dickhead. If he'd have not been a racist, he would've had no problems. This is like the guy in the meme who puts a metal pole in his bike spokes. Cabbie caused his own problems.

Jarix ,

Justifying is the wrong word to use but I understood what they meant. But you have to think about it in isolation for it to make sense, and because you have to i don't think it's very helpful to the discourse

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