An Honest Assessment of Rural White Resentment Is Long Overdue ( newrepublic.com )

We say very clearly that rural America is hurting. But we refuse to justify attitudes that some scholars try to underplay.

Something remarkable happened among rural whites between the 2016 and 2020 elections: According to the Pew Research Center’s validated voter study, as the rest of the country moved away from Donald Trump, rural whites lurched toward him by nine points, from 62 percent to 71 percent support. And among the 100 counties where Trump performed best in 2016, almost all of them small and rural, he got a higher percentage of the vote in 91 of them in 2020. Yet Trump’s extraordinary rural white support—the most important story in rural politics in decades—is something many scholars and commentators are reluctant to explore in an honest way.

…

What isn’t said enough is that rural whites are being told to blame all the wrong people for their very real problems. As we argue in the book, Hollywood liberals didn’t destroy the family farm, college professors didn’t move manufacturing jobs overseas, immigrants didn’t pour opioids into rural communities, and critical race theory didn’t close hundreds of rural hospitals. When Republican politicians and the conservative media tell rural whites to aim their anger at those targets, it’s so they won’t ask why the people they keep electing haven’t done anything to improve life in their communities.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

There are tens of thousands of towns that have no reason to exist anymore. The railroads don't stop there anymore, coal isn't in demand, or the factory where everyone used to work closed long ago. It's a death spiral. Nobody who lives there can admit they need to cut bait and start over elsewhere. They cling to the past and the delusion that the world will go back to the way it used to be.

Biden already did the best thing that could be done for these people which is funding a massive expansion of rural internet. If corporations continue to be pushed into allowing remote work, these rural towns would see the new economic infusion they need to survive.

thisorthatorwhatever ,

Cars destroyed rural America. Take a Youtuber like Hoovie's Garage, he buys a large farm in the middle of nowhere to store cars, drives regularly a 100miles a day. You can't have compact European style towns, in such a reality. The factory closed, people drive 60 to a 100 miles a day, that means that the town is flattened and gone.
Add to that oil disease in places like Kansas, Texas and W. Virginia; the government doesn't need to have sound businesses as a tax base to fund itself, just oil money.

Zipitydew ,

Cars have nearly nothing to do with this. It started with the industrialization of farming.

Farm towns existed at normal intervals because it took a much larger labor pool to manage them. 200 acres was a lot to manage about 100 years ago. By the 1970's 400 acres was a normal sized family farm in the US.

Modern machinery can cover nearly 200 acres in a day. There is no reason to have thousands of people per small town anymore. It takes a tiny fraction of that manpower to achieve the same output.

thisorthatorwhatever ,

1910 machinery starts to transform farming, killing small subsistence farms.

1920 factories in large towns start draw labor of off small subsistence farms

1930 cheap cars make it easier to travel great distances, small towns start to decline

1930-50s telephones, refrigerators, radios and TVs allow people to live even greater distances apart

1970s new pesticides allow for an even greater mega-farms, and fewer family farmers

1980s Free trade kills off most industrial jobs in small towns

1990s collapse of USSR means rush of cheap engineering labor, depreciates well paying technical jobs

2000s reinvestment into oil fracking and other oil extraction methods causes dutch-disease (taxes come from oil, so little interest in industry)

2010s spike in cheap synthetic drugs rolls through rural America

The_v ,

We've had a constant selection pressure for people who are economically and socially adaptable to move away from small towns since the start of the industrial revolution.

The issue is who is left in the towns. It's people who are socially and economically highly resistant to change.

What's interesting is why they are so resistant, studies show it's an overdeveloped sense of fear. They are terrified of moving to a new location. I know many people who refuse to visit any city because "it's too dangerous". People in small towns today live in a constant state of fear. Political and religious organizations have stoked that fear to a fever pitch.

Unsurprisingly, depression and anxiety rates are high in rural communities. Areas that also have poor mental health services. So they use drugs and alcohol at a higher as a form of self-medication.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod ,
@Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social avatar

Fear is absolutely part of it, but there's also a lot of people who just don't like cities.

acchariya ,

Do you have a source for this? I'm not doubting you because it seems plausible, it just seems like interesting reading

ChonkyOwlbear ,

Add in:

1956-1992 The interstate highway system bypassing previously established travel routes. This kills the business of diners, gas stations, and motels that previously serviced travelers.

1980s Hypermarts and supercenters. The ease of transportation of goods across the country put local small businesses into competition with larger businesses based thousands of miles away. Why go to local stores when Walmart has everything in one place? Profits that once stayed in the local economy with local business owners are now funneled far away.

MonkderDritte ,

1970s new pesticides allow for an even greater mega-farms, and fewer family farmers

About the time where biomass started to decline.

ryathal ,

Farm tech covers the pre ww2 changes, but NAFTA and globalization in general really killed rural America. Car factories, coal mines, steel mills, textile factories, lumber mills and more are drastically reduced in the US, the people that used to work in those place are still alive though.

AmidFuror ,

Digital nomads moving into these places and driving up the cost of living are a big complaint in rural areas. They've been complaining about the influx of Californians in Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana for the last few decades now, but it has really accelerated since the pandemic.

Seleni ,

But if there’s no industry and no-one moves there, how does the town survive?

VindictiveJudge ,
@VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world avatar

They commute to other places to work. They also don't typically make enough money to actually move and be closer to better jobs.

Seleni ,

You’re missing my point. If there’s no industry, and they don’t allow anyone to move in, then the town will slowly die. They basically don’t want anything to change while at the same time they demand everything get better. It just doesn’t work that way.

Grandwolf319 ,

Reminds me of the meme of a dog with a ball in its mouth:
“Throw ball”

“No give, just throw ball”

shalafi ,

I spend dozens of hours a year driving through the rural South. So many towns as you describe. And I have no idea how they're alive at all.

A weird thing I've seen: Most small Alabama towns are quite charming and well kept. How does that work when there's no obvious economic driver?!

Cross the border into Mississippi and it's a different story. You could teleport me to a random highway or town and I could tell you whether I was in AL or MS.

The wealth gap is on full display everywhere. You'll see a stunning property and home, rambling across several acres, and then a couple of trailers so beat down the county would condemn them if they cared to look.

Milk_Sheikh ,

How do those small towns still work? Cars. Sit and talk to people living in those forgotten towns, and they generally have very veeeery long commutes to work, or one of the few poorly paying jobs in town. +90 minutes commute is not uncommon to get to the next closest printing press/slaughterhouse/steel mill/etc that hasn’t moved overseas or closed down.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

I dated a girl from one of those small towns. Pretty much everyone either worked at the school, the county hospital, or the Hormel factory.

CharlesDarwin ,
@CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

It's weird how the radicalized right wing took umbrage to the notion of retraining with their sneering use of "learn to code". Of course, not everyone can write code (and those jobs may dwindle, too) but the notion of doing anything other than mining coal just seems to really, really, really offend a certain type of person.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

The idea that someone should just "learn to code" shows a huge lack of understanding of what "learning to code" entails. It also doesn't help that they'll need to earn a living while they're learning to code, and that they'll have to move from a dying town to find a job where they can code.

They weren't offended by the idea of learning to code. They were offended by the dismissive nature of the major life change that switching careers and moving to a different state entails.

And, as someone who learned how to code, I'm offended by the dismissive nature of the technology industry as just "learn to code."

Weirdfish ,

Agreed, I started in electronics repair in the 90s, and began learning to code in 2004. 20 years and over a dozen languages later and I feel I am still learning to code.

People say that programming jobs are going to go away because of LLMs, but I don't see it, at least not any time soon.

They have been trying to eliminate programmers in my primary language since before I started, and I still have steady work.

The thought that a large number of people from non-tech backgrounds can just become proficient programmers in a reasonable amount of time is of course insane. I've known many very talented techs who burned out and gave up trying to learn to program.

Something has to be done, and I don't pretend for a moment I have any answers. I have traveled through many small towns all around the US, and the decline in the past 10 years or so is really depressing to see.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

"Learn to code" is just the 21st century version of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps".

go_go_gadget ,

If corporations continue to be pushed into allowing remote work, these rural towns would see the new economic infusion they need to survive.

Biden forced federal workers back to the office. I don't know why people keep trying to pretend we have friends in the capitol. We don't.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

I would say work from home is incompatible with government security and privacy requirements in most situations.

go_go_gadget ,

Endless excuses for Biden and his pro-corporate bullshit.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

Endless complaints regardless of reality. Biden could personally cure cancer and you people would complain he didn't cure AIDS too.

go_go_gadget ,

We'll never know though because if Biden had the choice between curing cancer and protecting corporate profits he'd choose the corporate profits.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

Don't let the fact that Biden wants to raise corporate taxes, put a surcharge on stock buybacks, fight corporate tax evasion, and is the most pro-union president in generations interrupt your blind hate...

go_go_gadget ,

Yes Biden, like most trash procorporate Democrats regularly want to do things they have no ability to deliver. And flat out refuse to entertain alternatives they can.

put a surcharge on stock buybacks

Buybacks were illegal in the past. Make them illegal again. Do it today.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

You do know that the president can't pass laws, don't you?

go_go_gadget ,

I do know that. And your question demonstrates you don't know what you're talking about. Feel free to look it up.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

I looked. Biden tried to tighten SEC rules on stock buybacks and the conservative extremist 5th circuit court overruled it. I assume that is what you mean?

go_go_gadget ,

Do you think he regrets not fighting the legalization of stock buybacks when he was a senator?

ChonkyOwlbear ,

Yes, since he has tried to undo it and been blocked by Republicans.

go_go_gadget ,

Sounds like we're just watching a dying old man trying and failing to fix issues he either helped create or refused to fight back when there was a chance.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

Boy, I was really spot on about you being incapable of accepting anything positive about Biden. It's actually kind of fascinating

go_go_gadget ,

He's a disgusting person. He was a senator for 37 years and either directly supported or didn't fight mountains of legislation and we're all paying the price. As if that weren't bad enough now we have to sit around and watch while he absolutely fails to undo all this damage while people like you cheer him on. This is my life. Being subjected to observe an awful human being celebrated for making bare minimum attempts and failing to fix any of the damage he caused.

There is nothing to celebrate here.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

Ah, so no bias on your part then...

go_go_gadget ,

I'm sorry I'm confused. Are you saying because I'm convinced a person is a piece of shit that makes me biased?

ChonkyOwlbear ,

Your hatred has blinded you to objective reality. Either Biden or Trump will be president. There is no third option in our current system. Which is the worse choice?

go_go_gadget ,

I will vote for neither. I will be voting 3rd party. I will not reward the people who keep forcing me into deciding between two steaming shitbags. Don't like it? Do better next time.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

You make things better by voting for the better of the two options. Pretending there is a third option is just ignorance.

go_go_gadget ,

Biden hasn't made things better. He's made things worse at a slower speed. The only people benefiting from that are Boomers who don't understand the urgency of turning things around. All they want is for us to prop up the status quo until they can die peacefully. They don't care what happens to the rest of us.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

That doesn't change the fact that there are only two choices. Which is better, Biden or Trump?

go_go_gadget ,

I don't care. You want my vote? Get a better candidate through the primaries next time or at least someone who's willing to make material compromises with leftists and progressives.

I didn't vote for Biden in the 2020 primaries. How he does in the general election isn't my responsibility. Ask the people who voted for him in the primaries what their plan was.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

So you have no preference to whether Biden or Trump is president?

go_go_gadget ,

I'm saying I'd rather die than make that choice.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

That is the choice we have. That is the reality. Vote however you want, but I think you know in your heart that one of those choices will be much worse for the country than the other. Sometimes all you can do is minimize harm.

go_go_gadget ,

And I'm telling you I won't continue to cater to that. I will be voting 3rd party. All a vote for Biden would do is reward the selfish pieces of shit who voted for him in the 2020 primaries.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

I'm not asking who you are voting for. I am asking when the election ends with either Trump or Biden winning, which result will be the least damaging for the country?

go_go_gadget ,

Lol keep coping buddy.

Biden can't have my vote. No amount of force feeding me bullshit candidates will change that. If a politician wants my vote they'll work for it.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

I'm not asking for your vote. This is hilarious. You can't even bring yourself to say which is worse for the country.

go_go_gadget ,

Yes. You can't stand the fact that I'm making my own choice. My opinion clearly didn't matter in the 2020 democratic primaries so it definitely doesn't matter now.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

It will matter when whoever becomes the next president picks one or two new Supreme Court justices. Who would you rather do that between Trump and Biden?

go_go_gadget ,

My opinion didn't matter in the 2020 primaries so it doesn't matter now. Best of luck or whatever.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

I didn't get who I wanted in the primaries either. That's democracy. You don't always get what you want. We get either Biden or Trump. So who do you think would do worse at choosing Supreme Court justices?

go_go_gadget ,

Not my problem. Go ask the people who voted for Biden in the primaries.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

I'm not interested in their opinion. I'm interested in yours. Which of the two would do a better job picking SC justices in your opinion?

go_go_gadget ,

Not my problem. I didn't elect either of them in the primaries.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

The decisions the justices they pick will make most definitely will be your problem

Cryophilia ,

Biden bad

originalucifer ,
@originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com avatar

tldr; its racism all the way down but no one wants to call them on it. big surprise. no mention of the foxnews propaganda machine that instills/reinforces these 'views''.

essell ,

"all the way down" is missing the heart of it. The article is describing people with real issues, who have really been let down and really need better from their government.

That this has been channelled into racism is awful and sad for everyone, for all the victims of misinformation.

just2look ,

A huge portion of the country has been let down by the government. You don’t have to be rural for that. Lack of healthcare, education, and support are nationwide. Not everyone decided to be racist because of it.

TransplantedSconie ,
@TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee avatar

You do realize that all of those issues you listed are a direct result of Republican policy, correct?

just2look ,

Of course I’m aware. What I’m saying is that it’s stupid to give rural white Americans a pass for being shitty and racist just because life hard.

They want to blame everyone else for the problems and double down on a party of grifters and con men, because that is more appealing than admitting they have been wrong. That the propaganda they have been fed their whole lives is a pile of garbage they have been happily eating.

They would rather continue swimming in shit as long as they are told that they are better than everyone else, which is what the right has been telling them for decades.

maynarkh ,

It's not giving them a pass. But you can blame them and do nothing, or you can try and lift them up.

Introversion ,

Give us a viable path fom here to there, given that capitalism doesn’t give a shit about them and that they have been trained to hate SoCiaLisM?

Seriously, if you had a magic wand that could cause the entirety of our federal, state and local governments to want to improve the lot of poor rural Americans, what would result from that?

Because most of the things I can think of, like universal basic income, universal free (at point of access) healthcare, etc, are exactly things that conservative poor rurals have for decades been propagandized to hate as SoCiaLisM.

Myself, I grow tired of hearing that I need to better understand those folks and why they vote as they do. I’ve lived in rural areas, in my youth. It’s among the reasons that I don’t live there now.

just2look ,

And you propose I do what exactly? They are dead set on ignoring reality and substituting their supremacist fantasy. Any program that is aimed at uplifting people is deemed communist and assaulted by the very people it’s aimed at helping. Any influx of people and capital that could replace all the lost industry is viewed as an invasion of “elites” or whatever enemy of the day is.

They are ruled by fear and hate of everything that outside of their safe propaganda bubble. They cannot be helped until they are willing to do a bit of introspection, and decide they are open to listening and learning. I will not feel sorry for the people who would happily destroy the world around them just because it doesn’t align with what they want it to be.

I grew up with this. I know these people. I got away from it, and I am happy to never go back.

Cryophilia ,

School funding and broader educational reform. More teachers, more training for teachers, better curriculums for students and teachers.

go_go_gadget ,

Republican policy and Democrat "failures". How many times do the Democrats get to fumble the ball or side with corporations over workers before this becomes a widely accepted fact? This isn't intended to give the Republicans a free pass, but just to call out that the Democrats are either too stupid or simply not interested in solving the problem.

Cryophilia ,

Biden bad

dhork ,

It's been channeled into racism, on purpose, by the representatives in government who are doing the "really need better from their government." to the people. They've managed to implement policies that are actively harmful to their constituents, while convincing their constituents that it's all some other group's fault.

essell ,

I agree this is why I described them as victims

Eldritch ,
@Eldritch@lemmy.world avatar

They're the ones keeping the government from doing better. And you can't help those who reject help.

Until they genuinely ask for help. And stop blaming others. May they enjoy how much they've fucked themselves.

Cryophilia ,

And you can’t help those who reject help.

We're going to have to, at some point. Or they'll be forever holding us back.

We may have to force on them things like good schools and living wages, before they'll be able to grow past the "hate liberals" phase

Eldritch ,
@Eldritch@lemmy.world avatar

You use The Airliner method. You put on your own oxygen mask before you put on a child's. We need to take care of ourselves before we can take care of them.

There are plenty of things we can and should be doing at the local levels. To accomplish this that we aren't. It's the problem of all politics in america. People are waiting for someone responsible at the top to do the right thing. And actually help people. The people at the top don't care enough to actually do anything. And yet people only vote in a national elections like the presidential election. Many of them not bothering to vote in their local elections at all. Where they would actually stand to have the biggest impact.

Perhaps we should look into kick starting and crowdfunding solar punk technocratic communes in rural middle america. Getting started would of course be the hardest part. Finding knowledgeable educated people willing to devote time and energy to helping develop something new unique and bigger than themselves. But I am sure there are people out there with the knowledge and the interest. It's just a matter of getting everyone together. Once you have the first few built and sustainable. You can start building more. And more and more and more. Till eventually they become rather common and actually start helping people like them after they've been exposed to it long enough for their irrational fear instincts to die down.

aesthelete ,

Perhaps we should look into kick starting and crowdfunding solar punk technocratic communes in rural middle america.

Not to poo poo your fantasy or whatever, but this sounds like every tech bro's "build an island country" when they get their first billion.

Most cities weren't built where they were purely by chance or coincidence. Infrastructure is hard and complicated to build, and relies on natural resources being somewhat available locally in most cases.

Even if you manage to build it, there's no guarantee they will come.

Eldritch ,
@Eldritch@lemmy.world avatar

In the very last sentence. And especially in the context in which we were discussing. It's literally the opposite of that. Likely buying up rural land that had already been a town at one time but ceased to be because of industrialization. And revitalizing and rebuilding it in a more socialist / communist model along with other interested people. But still integrating into the larger society and environment around it. Building A Better Community from within. Not some outside Island to play King on.

All these people fantasizing about 15 minute towns and cities here in the United states. Let's fucking go let's do it. Solar panels, windmills, tight high-density communities. The power that be don't want it. We gotta do it ourselves.

aesthelete ,

So you rebuilding the railroad? A lot of small towns only existed because of the railroad. Now some of them only exist because of the interstate.

A lot of towns are rotting because there's no real reason for them to exist anymore, and for some of them there wasn't a real reason besides a truck stop for them to have existed in the first place.

Eldritch ,
@Eldritch@lemmy.world avatar

If it's needed sure. But again there's other avenues other ways. However you're focusing on rebuilding them how they used to be. Not rebuilding them better or anew.

These days we'd probably be better off building somewhere close to Interstate access. And then worrying more about data access. Than something like building our own private Railroad. Or railroad access in general.

Cryophilia ,

That's just starting a new liberal city in the middle of Trumpistan. It'll be like Austin or Atlanta even if everything goes perfectly.

I say we get a few California and New York billionaires to just buy a small shithole town in rural Appalachia or Louisiana or something. Give every resident $70k a year, for free. Free healthcare, college, job training, for life. Fix up their houses and their infrastructure. You could probably do it all for just one billion dolllars. And slap banners everywhere saying COURTESY OF THE US DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Shower these dumb fuckers with cash so they'll shut up about the culture war shit. And then in a generation when their kids are educated, they'll be normal, non hate filled people.

Eldritch ,
@Eldritch@lemmy.world avatar

Only if you ignore all the talk about communism communes and socialism. And yes of course there will be pushback and unrest. You have to win them over. But it can be done. Especially by showing them a way to preserve their communities and ways a life.You're not going to win anyone over if you never try.

HobbitFoot ,

Except this happened for over 60 years.

The efforts to create a Great Society were stopped when it became apparent that the benefits of the Great Society would be shared by all. Responses to racial integration included closing school districts for years and filing public pools with cement.

The government was trying to do better, but since it wasn't hurting the wrong people, the response was to make the government worse.

Cryophilia ,

Try 300 years

HobbitFoot ,

What happened in the 1720's?

Cryophilia ,

That's about when these people decided the government needs to hurt other people or they'd start making it not work.

HobbitFoot ,

I'm pretty sure the colonial government at the time was more than willing to hurt the right people to protect the white people.

Cryophilia ,

Not really. One of the issues of the day was the colonial government preventing British people from "settling" farther west, which of course would have meant settlers massacring the Indians who already lived there.

HobbitFoot ,

This was something the British wanted, but the colonial governments themselves were generally pro-settlement.

bradorsomething ,

Sugar.

captainlezbian ,

You ever try begging Kentuckians to accept that they’ll need to do something, anything, other than mine coal and to let the government fund them learning how? I have. They did not like that.

showmeyourkizinti ,

I don’t know there seems be a shit ton of Toxic Masculinity too.

KillingTimeItself ,

don't worry, i'll be moving to rural america to do my part. And if they don't like me there, they'll just have to kill me.

BeautifulMind ,
@BeautifulMind@lemmy.world avatar

It's true that the cultural left didn't suppress wages or unions or offshore manufacturing jobs or cause all those farms to fail or any of those other things, but one thing that made the left vulnerable to such charges is that when the Democrats embraced neoliberalism, they implicitly became the party of credentialed professionals.
When the Democrats abandoned the working class to compete for the donor dollars the right had long enjoyed, it meant that the working class went from having 1 party for it to having 2 parties actively working against its interests.

It's so wild to me that the GOP has been considered the working man's party by anyone since the 1890s

btaf45 ,

they implicitly became the party of credentialed professionals.

This didn't happen.

When the Democrats abandoned the working class

This didn't happen.

buddascrayon ,

What isn’t said enough is that rural whites are being told to blame all the wrong people for their very real problems. As we argue in the book, Hollywood liberals didn’t destroy the family farm, college professors didn’t move manufacturing jobs overseas, immigrants didn’t pour opioids into rural communities, and critical race theory didn’t close hundreds of rural hospitals. When Republican politicians and the conservative media tell rural whites to aim their anger at those targets, it’s so they won’t ask why the people they keep electing haven’t done anything to improve life in their communities.

This right here is so on the nose it's not even funny. Republican political strategy in rural America is 100% distraction politics. Using every nonsense "moral" issue they can come up with to distract from the fact that they are completely incapable of governing anything effectively for the benefit of the people.

cabron_offsets ,

You gotta be mentally defective to vote r.

KillingTimeItself ,

one of my favorite features of politics, is how it inherently ingrains this sort of shit into the party, such that it actually incentivizes the other side to believe this shit, because it's actually fucking real.

ansiz ,

As someone that was born and raised, and still lives in a super majority pro Trump part of the rural South, boy is this article true. I can't begin to explain the rabid love so many have for Trump and the republican party.

I was eating with some family at a restaurant and got to listen to them railing about the public schools grooming kids and letting them read porn. Even pointing out that they literally know the local teachers and go to church with them. Asking who is supposed to be doing what they are claiming gets absolutely nowhere.

Wanderer ,

Is the same thing happening in the US as in the UK. Whenever data is taken working class white men always come off worse in the stats. But all the money goes to women and minorities while also talking about how the white man is today the cause of all the problems.

It's like being at the bottom of the barrel and then also being shat on while everyone gets a helping hand but you.

nova_ad_vitum ,

Yes thank you for demonstrating the product of the false conservative media narrative described in the article.

shani66 ,

As a rural white (I'm one of the good ones i swear): we are ignored, it's an objective reality that the better parts of the country neither attempt to understand rural America or the problems it faces. No blame here tho, i spend most of my time trying to ignore this shithole too. Some places in America are nearly third world levels of bad, even when the was an economic reason for these places to exist they were terrible and the people are awful in so many ways. There is no 'but' here if anyone was expecting one, no saving grace, no happy ending.

The only way i see this working out well is if it starts in the cities, though. Organize our cities better and force reasonable housing costs, then relocate most of rural America to someplace better now that it's not insanely expensive for basic survival there. Sure an actual farming town might not be and to be relocated, but shitty coal town #4642 shouldn't have ever existed in the first place and rail stop #556 has been dying for over 100 years. It'll be good for future generations to not be in places like that.

drmeanfeel ,

And no one ignores the plight of rural folk as much as Republicans. Indeed they want to make it worse to gin up more discomfort. I'm from deep rural Alabama. To say my family votes against their own interests is a given, for the two choices, but they vote for the most extreme antithesis to their best interest every time because frankly, they're committed to the "invisible war against """other"""".

I agree they should escape, but I also am not going to extend them some bullshit about how they're "forgotten" or "ignored". They know exactly what they're doing. They are making their choices.

shani66 , (edited )

I'm not saying they're good people, in fact i don't think most people who live out here can be saved. Making cities livable and consolidating the population just prevents new generations of subhumans. Or at least, this particular brand of subhuman.

Edit: and i don't think you understood anything i typed out. The people are the issue being ignored.

KillingTimeItself ,

As a rural white (I’m one of the good ones i swear): we are ignored, it’s an objective reality that the better parts of the country neither attempt to understand rural America or the problems it faces.

as someone who hates city living, and suburbia, isn't the entire point of living rurally to be left alone? I suppose it depends on how you classify it though. Seems rather ironic to me, to live rurally, and then bitch about rural living being hard.

shani66 ,

No one chooses to be born out here, but yes that is part of the attitude people foster, which is part of the problem.

KillingTimeItself ,

yeah, i suppose given the cost of moving to a more urban place, that it would be rather restrictive wouldn't it?

Having grown up in suburbia all my life, and disliking it. Rural america seems like a nice escape. Guess that's just the one sided nature of my experience though.

shani66 , (edited )

If we weren't talking America I'd tell you rural is better in every single way when compared to suburban, suburban living is a hellscape that has no right to exist imo. It's just that rural in America means you are actually disconnected from society at large. You aren't outliers surrounding and supporting a large city, not a tight knit community, but a single person or family living far away from anything or anyone with delusions of true independence. It fosters incredibly anti social attitudes, where anything that is different is bad.

The only replacement for the society they are missing out on for most people out here is whatever hick church they go to. And that feeds into many of the awful aspects of life out here.

KillingTimeItself ,

the whole reason i'd want to live rurally is so that i can experience something other than city life, part of the allure of that is that you can just do whatever the fuck you want out there, without bothering other people. Therefore, nobody else has a reason to be bothered by you.

Church could definitely influence that. But rural living is a very disciplined thing and you need to approach it specifically. Otherwise it's a mess.

Cryophilia ,

Perfect analysis by Cracked of all places: https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about

Aqarius ,

Not even "of all places". Cracked had some great articles before everyone bailed.

blazera ,
@blazera@lemmy.world avatar

As someone living for decades in rural Mississippi, Rural conservatives are willing to hurt themselves if it means hurting others. They fight against raises for themselves so the "lazy" people dont get what they dont deserve. They fight against healthcare subsidies for the poor, subsidies that they themselves would qualify for, because they want revenge on "welfare queens". They are horrid people that go to church every sunday to hear teachings against all of the shit they do.

bradorsomething ,

I’ve always had the perspective that they are making the poor of their states into the new slave class, with the belief that they will be above the cut-off line somehow and be better off. Do you see the same from the inside?

I grew up rural south, and I can see how that mindset will avail them right until the day their home is taken and they’re the underclass they’ve worked so hard to oppress.

blazera ,
@blazera@lemmy.world avatar

No, i dont think they plan ahead like that. I think their train of thought just stops at wanting revenge on the people they feel get undeserved rewards. Its a lot of at least mildly abusive childhoods here, and just accepting that as how things should be. Ive heard sooooo many times kids arent being beaten enough here. And without a drop of self awareness that theyre not exactly a positive example of the outcomes of that abuse. And none of them really have aspirations, or saying theyre waiting for their day to come. Generally its pretty cynical outlooks, like everything is already doomed, theyre just waitin on goin to heaven.

jmanes ,
@jmanes@lemmy.world avatar

I grew up in rural Missouri. Same thing here just as you described. My town had 300 people in it, but the town close by had around 8,000. Last I heard the hospital there was on the brink of collapse because nobody there can afford to pay after visiting. So most people won’t visit at all and die prematurely. Everyone is panicking because if the hospital closes the nearest one will be 1.5hrs away. A situation entirely preventable with subsidized health care. The hospital would get what they needed that way.

CharlesDarwin ,
@CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

The real shame of all this is that we have to care what some of the worst elements of this country think. They are a minority and they live in areas that are not all that strategic when it come to the future, or economics, etc.

Their argument is always "we grow your food!". And I've never understood this argument as a valid one for so many reasons. For one, it's not like this is done as some kind of altruistic thing, any more than any other industry, lol. So you are part of agriculture, uh, so what? Secondly, most of the food that I personally eat is not grown in the flyover country they seem to indicate. Lastly, things like automation might be coming for all of that and so I don't know why I or anyone else have to be held hostage by a minority group that happens to be distributed in remote areas of our country and who may have been tenuously connected to food production at some point in the past...

CharlesDarwin ,
@CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

I think Chomsky nailed it as far back as the nineties, at least. I cannot find the exact quote, but he was commenting on the "Angry White Male" thing and said that of course a great many people had the right to be angry about their situation, but that of course they'd be pointed at the wrong things/people either as deflection or as the (false) cause.

When people say that the cons manifested donnie vs. donnie somehow coming along and changing the cons, they are not wrong. It's no coincidence that donnie is glued to grievance outlets like Faux and just repeats their bilge. When these angry people have been eating up Faux nonsense and a candidate comes along that just repeats everything on those grievance outlets, and gives them a permission structure to start saying some of the worst thoughts they have out loud, it's all too obvious who they are going to vote for.

Naturally, that candidate will be doing absolutely nothing for them beyond their feels and will most likely just enact policies to make their situation even worse.

thisorthatorwhatever ,

This misses an important point. Cities like Chicago and Miami compete globally, against places like Berlin and Sao Paulo. Smaller regional centers, like Oklahoma city, and Des Moines are ruled by their own elite and are not concerned by international affairs.

The wealthy in smaller regional centers don't have the ear of the Federal government, but they do employ most people in the local area, so locals are tied to their success. Locals also rely on them for donations to local hospitals, charities, and sporting clubs.

HobbitFoot ,

The wealthy in smaller regional centers don't have the ear of the Federal government

If anything, they actually have an oversized voice in the federal government due to the Senate.

mokus ,

And in many places, also the House and their state legislatures due to gerrymandering.

go_go_gadget ,

Naturally, that candidate will be doing absolutely nothing for them beyond their feels and will most likely just enact policies to make their situation even worse.

As someone who voted for Biden, that's pretty much my experience as well. The U.S. government is telling me to go fuck myself every day. I'm sick of it.

Cryophilia ,

Go_go-gadget Say Literally Anything Other Than "Biden Bad" Challenge (Impossible)

go_go_gadget ,

This from the guy who endlessly defends Israel committing genocide.

Cryophilia ,

Fuck Israel. I defend Biden.

go_go_gadget ,

Lol why? A career politician doesn't give a shit about you.

Cryophilia ,

Career politicians are why I haven't been dragged into the street and beaten for any number of things I've done, like have an interracial relationship or treat trans people like human beings.

And I'm lucky, I'm a white male. Others would just be lynched.

go_go_gadget ,

k

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68782177

bradorsomething ,

You’re right, you shouldn’t vote. Let the rest of us worry about these things, with our silly desire to participate. Believe me, you are better off letting us deal with these things.

go_go_gadget ,

I'll be voting 3rd party.

YeetPics ,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

K

Serinus ,

Because he's really not that bad. I'm excited for the new Amtrak lines, personally. The cap on overdraft fees has needed to happen for a long time. And I'm looking into getting solar panels with that 30% federal credit.

(It's always weird to me how the people who most say they want to be completely independent also want to rely on oil companies and the electric grid.)

Harbinger01173430 ,

...white? White!? Those almost red/pink skins look less white than my neighbors in my latin american city!

Bunch of clowns...

AA5B ,

Yet that doesn’t give any answers. Conservatives lie, misdirect, scapegoat, and seem to act against their constituents’ interests. That’s the common view from the other side.

But why do they still get elected? Why do those constituents not see through the BS? Why does it continue to happen?

Is it all they know? Is demonization so successful? Are they that gullible? Is there something positive to conservative politicians we don’t recognize?

shalafi ,

The answers are all here:

https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about

Nothing I've read makes more sense regarding Trump's support. I get it now.

AA5B ,

Isn’t cracked.com supposed to be comedy?

That essay covers it pretty well and maybe I’m in the same boat as the author. The small town I grew up in was a great place but dominated by a single large employer. When they left, they left a huge gap still not filled decades later. I left, and the few times I’ve visited have been mostly sad at what is left.

I did go to a high school reunion at some big number like 20, and it was even sadder. It was mostly people who stayed local and they hadn’t changed at all from high school. My best friend has the same hobbies so can’t talk about anything new after 20 years, and claimed he had never been more than 50 miles from where he grew up. What the ever living fuck? My brothers best friend still lives in his Mom’s basement and works on his Camaro on weekends. What else can I feel except pity?

However the large employer in our town was a tech employer so this is new, playing out in a single lifetime. For most of these small rural towns, their way of life has already died long ago, but the people either don’t understand or don’t want to understand. The article talks about farming mechanization requiring far fewer people, but there’s also the rise of large corporate farms and global trade making it much harder to succeed at a family farm. But that’s half a century or a century in the making. You can’t blame the current president, nor can some blowhard change that with BS. Your way of life is already gone and your desperation is from clinging to it, doing the same thing over and over for years. Somehow expecting something to change. I know change is hard and I wouldn’t want to, but your actions are locking your children, your town, yourself in the same cycle of desperation that will keep getting worse. It’s long past time to rip off the bandaid, to face the music. To take responsibility for your future instead of hiding from reality

HawlSera ,

And how do you expect people to do that exactly? Move to the city with what money? Start new businesses with what money?

AA5B ,

I’m not claiming it’s easy or fun, but trying anything is more likely to work than just digging in your heels. Trying anything is more likely to work than falling for some grifter bs’ing you. Facing reality and at least looking for ways to overcome or listening to others ideas is more likely to work than hiding from reality.

Maybe this is just the usual media rage bait, but every time I read about such an area voting for someone just to throw a monkey wrench in the works to hurt others too or someone conservative ready to try the same things that haven’t worked before or someone promising the stars without a space program, I have to think a lot of this is self-inflicted. Every time you cut investments in education or science, or the environment, it’s self-inflicted, every time you want to cut safety nets when you or your neighbors are likely to need a hand up at some point, youre hurting yourself. Most importantly, every time you reject new technology, new businesses, new attempts to help your future, because the old isn’t serving you well, it’s self-inflicted.

I’m sure I’m getting it wrong since i can’t walk in their shoes but I know my area has lots of advantages, and many are our choices, our attitudes, our votes, our investments. Why does it seem like some people use their choices, votes, attitudes only to hurt or limit themselves?

HawlSera ,

Yeah, but... what options do these people have outside of Vote Blue and hope some social program opens up to lift them out? One that's meant to target poor people in the city and not necessarily the rural area.

CharlesDarwin ,
@CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

What's so weird about donnie in particular is that he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, spent much of his life trying to be accepted by elite culture in Manhattan, was given a game show in which he played a businessman.

He's like the embodiment of every single douchebag in an 80s flick. I grew up in an extremely rural area, and most people I remember, left and right, hated donnie and his antics as a so-called businessman. I just don't get how he has transformed into someone they think represents them. Does he insult other elitists? Okay, yeah. Is he still an 80s caricature of a douchebag who flies around in his own jet and plays a lot of golf? You bet.

go_go_gadget ,

I just don’t get how he has transformed into someone they think represents them.

Because he doesn't tell them they're wrong.

The biggest thing I absolutely hate about Biden is how fucking arrogant he is. His voters have spoken: Stop sending weapons to Israel and the fucking prick just keeps doing it anyway. U.S. politicians have gotten so used to telling the public to go fuck themselves they have no idea how to fight someone who just agrees with them all the time.

Buelldozer ,
@Buelldozer@lemmy.today avatar

WOW

As a former Republican who lives deep in MAGA territory that article resonates so hard I'm sure a nearby Geologist just looked at their seismograph in alarm.

Wow, just...wow.

HawlSera ,

This basically hits the nail on the head.

Cryophilia ,

That's such an excellent article. I have it bookmarked. I grew up in the South, moved to California, and it's spot on.

shikitohno ,

I don't know if there's a single reason, but I would suspect a large part of it is that the alternative is giving in and conceding on pretty much everything. Sure, there's a possibility that if they suddenly started voting for Democrats, they might see some more funding sent their way, more programs to help them get by, or possibly even create jobs. It doesn't seem too likely they'll be the same old jobs that used to sustain those rural towns, though. They also won't be able to dominate the discourse of the party with a worldview built around Evangelical Christianity. That's going to mean just flat out giving up on a lot of the culture war battles they're fighting via the GOP at the moment. I don't see them getting the Democrats to walk back support for gay rights, for example. A lot of the anti-immigrant rhetoric basically just has to die off, or else urban Democratic voters will not support them.

For me, the real question is why they think they should be able to hold the vast majority of the population to their decidedly minority views? I'm sympathetic to wanting to be able to live the way you and your family have for generations, but there's no bringing that back at this point, so they need to try something new.

HawlSera ,

The republicans convince their constituents that as bad as things are now, they can easily get worse, and these are people who have lived in shit so long they literally cannot envision anything better.

That's the secret

slumlordthanatos ,

Republicans have a huge and extensive propaganda network that feeds their constituents a steady stream of misinformation, fear, hatred, intolerance, and ignorance. Fox News primes them, Republicans parrot Fox or whatever right-wing news outlet people get their news from, and get elected because most people don't have the media literacy to see that they're being lied to.

We can't reason with them, because they live in a world that has been carefully crafted to keep them compliant. The only way to fix this is to break the GOP's propaganda machine. Until we can do that, they are lost to us.

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