Voters don’t have a clue about how much worse Trump’s second term would be ( www.inquirer.com )

This BTW is how you involve in the story the reality of what the voters think, which is an important portion of election coverage, while still upholding your basic journalistic responsibility to communicate to people what's actually going on.

whotookkarl ,
@whotookkarl@lemmy.world avatar

I guess I was never really clear why we need a president in the first place and the bullshit power centralization it's grown over time to include beyond civilian leadership of the military and veto power when Congress is useless at restraining the executive under checks and balances for example executive orders. If you want a public figurehead pick someone in the Senate most of them barely work anyways. Crisis management should be it's own department not just up to whoever won the last popularity contest.

CharlesDarwin ,
@CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

Even if it gets to the point of putting people on trains, I'm not sure some bothsiderists, tankies, enlightened centrists, etc., will realize their mistake.

AllonzeeLV , (edited )

I'm voting for Biden, as I did last time and Clinton before, but I can't help some dark part of me knowing he does represent the US and is practically our mascot.

The embodiment of greed and gluttony, reveling in schadenfreude, cartoonishly shameless, crowing about who he beat and who he's enjoying the suffering of, and drunk on wholly undeserved vanity. A sociopath who stands against the very concept of empathy for others. If someone is suffering, he'll tell you what they did to deserve their suffering and suggest ways to really turn the screws. 🇺🇸

I'm ashamed of being an American precisely for all the American traits, that are also destroying us from the inside btw, that Trump unironically personifies. He's more American as America actually is, not all the pretty lies we say about ourselves, than Apple pies or school shootings.

I wish more Americans would look in the mirror that is Donald Trump and be ashamed of who we are, because we can't begin to do anything without recognizing what monstrous values we have.

t3h_fool ,

I wish more Americans would look in the mirror that is Donald Trump and be ashamed of who we are, because we can’t begin to do anything without recognizing what monstrous values we have.

You are saying something I haven't heard in a lot of discourse. Kudos and my upvote.

AllonzeeLV , (edited )

I appreciate that, sincerely.

I'll never forget what elevated him into mainstream discourse, a game show literally about "I'm rich, so kiss my ass for half an hour" that somehow made him popular. You aren't supposed to like Gordon Gecko/Mr. Potter. They are to be hissed for their antisocial greed. Our people celebrate it. Many who hate him for his violent rhetoric today still loved him for his proud celebration of greed then.

I'll also never forget what singular event took him from paying extras to attend his rallies to basically owning the Republican party:

“We’re not allowed to punch back any more,” Trump lamented. The billionaire said he missed the “good old days,”
“You know what they used to do to a guy like that in a place like this?” Trump said. “They’d be carried out on a stretcher, folks.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/donald-trump-punch-protester-219655

He's a fucking monster, yes. But what does that say about US that the above elevated him, through public popularity, to basically being worshipped as a God(GodEmperor as some called him) by 40% of the electorate, while making still more consider his message?

ZMoney ,

Have a look at Biden too. An emaciated husk clinging to tired mantras and totally blind to the present reality. Visibly fading but refusing to abandon the exceptionalism that brought him to power. Thinking the world still believes in the hollow vision that he imposes on it at gunpoint. Shrugging off any reasonable critique of his completely outmoded positions. Sounds just as American as Trump.

mozz OP Admin ,
mozz avatar

Yeah, I know whenever a US president tries to legalize marijuana federally and spend a trillion dollars on student loan forgiveness and climate change, I'm like "damn, not this again, he's clinging to the same tired mantras and completely outmoded positions we've always had."

federatingIsTooHard ,
@federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

a US president tries to legalize marijuana federally and spend a trillion dollars on student loan forgiveness and climate change

that didnt happen, though. he didn't get it done, so there is no reason to believe the effort was genuine.

mozz OP Admin , (edited )
mozz avatar

Man... why are y'all making me defend the Democrats I don't even like most of them

Biden: Marijuana legalization bill passes house, blocked by Republicans in senate, anyone in federal prison for possession is pardoned and free

Biden: Loan forgiveness order is completed, then blocked by Supreme Court, $138 billion in forgiveness comes anyway through a separate executive order

Biden: Manchin blocks half-trillion-dollar climate legislation, replacement legislation comes all the way to a signed bill and takes effect expected to produce 40% reduction in emissions by 2030, short of Biden's original effort but still expected to cut 2 billion tons per year out of our carbon emissions

You: WAAAAAA NOT GENUINE EFFORT, THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS TRUMP, THIS ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH

federatingIsTooHard ,
@federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

why are y’all making me defend the Democrats

you don't have to. i watch liberals lie about republicans dozens of times every day, actual, flat out lies, and i rarely say anything. because republicans suck, too.

federatingIsTooHard ,
@federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

Biden: Marijuana legalization bill passes house, blocked by Republicans in senate, anyone in federal prison for possession is pardoned and free

trump actually got the first step act through both houses. it seems to me that if biden wanted to do it, he would have. instead, he didn't.

mozz OP Admin ,
mozz avatar

What on earth are you talking about

The Donald Trump administration took positions against marijuana and against the easing of laws regarding marijuana.[1] Although Trump indicated during his 2016 presidential campaign that he favored leaving the issue of legalization of marijuana to the states, his administration subsequently upheld the federal prohibition of cannabis, and Trump's 2021 fiscal budget proposal included removing protections for state medical marijuana laws.[1] In 2018, the administration rescinded the 2013 Cole Memorandum, an Obama-era Justice Department policy that generally directed federal prosecutors not to pursue marijuana prosecutions in states where marijuana is legal as a matter of state law.[2]

federatingIsTooHard ,
@federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

What on earth are you talking about

this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Step_Act

federatingIsTooHard ,
@federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

Biden: Loan forgiveness order is completed, then blocked by Supreme Court, $138 billion in forgiveness comes anyway through a separate executive order

seems to me, if biden wanted to do it, he would have. i don't believe the supreme court can block it, since they don't have an enforcement arm.

mozz OP Admin ,
mozz avatar

I'm gonna exit this conversation now

federatingIsTooHard ,
@federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

bye

Cryophilia ,

This guy is a Russian shill, don't try to discuss in good faith.

federatingIsTooHard ,
@federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

You: WAAAAAA NOT GENUINE EFFORT, THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS TRUMP, THIS ISN’T GOOD ENOUGH

i never said this. it's a strawman.

mozz OP Admin ,
mozz avatar

You never said "exactly the same as Trump"; that was exaggeration on my part and maybe unfair. The rest of it you absolutely said and I stand behind my characterization of how much sense it makes.

federatingIsTooHard ,
@federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

i also didn't waaaaaa. i'm cool as a cucumber over here pointing out the inadequacy of politicians.

Cryophilia ,

It's like when I get stuck in traffic, but I'm on the clock, so I'm not bothered by it.

federatingIsTooHard ,
@federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

did this go to the right place?

Cryophilia ,

Getting lost also does not bug me when I'm on the clock.

federatingIsTooHard ,
@federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

i think you got this thread mixed up with another

mozz OP Admin ,
mozz avatar

They're saying you're clearly on the clock right now

federatingIsTooHard ,
@federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

I am, but don't tell my boss. he thinks I'm working.

theotherverion ,
@theotherverion@lemmynsfw.com avatar

To american people from europe: pls vote biden. Even if he was completely senile, even dead, it would still be far better than Trump.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Oops! Sorry! America has once again hit a critical level of fascists.

CharlesDarwin ,
@CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

I agree with Kimmel - I'd be happy to Weekend At Bernies this thing over tiny d.

postmateDumbass ,

Biden > Trump oc, but do not stop there.

2028 needs some real leader(s) to step up.

Schadrach ,

Either way, whoever wins this time can't run again without either a constitutional amendment or a literal coup. So 2028 will have at least one new face.

Maybe a Democrat that isn't running on sheer.terror.that the other guy might win.

postmateDumbass ,

Neither should be running this time.

But they are what the system provides.

ChowJeeBai ,

Even if it was the same, it's certainly not something anyone should aspire to.

Nudding ,

"Vote for Biden or you're a fucking moron"

Interesting tactic.

BestBouclettes ,

I mean, at this point that's what it boils down to. On one side you have a milquetoast shit sandwich, on the other side full fledged christo fascism. The choice is pretty clear.

Nudding ,

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

    •
    theotherverion ,
    @theotherverion@lemmynsfw.com avatar

    If this is your main problem, then be prepared for Trump...

    Nudding ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

    •
    mozz OP Admin ,
    mozz avatar

    I know when I have spare time, I like to go pay attention to elections in some other country and spend a lot of time talking to people in that country about who they should vote for and why. It's just enjoyable for me; it's cool to meet someone else who feels the same way.

    Nudding ,

    Good for you!

    Nudding ,

    I don't live in your shit hole country.

    mozz OP Admin ,
    mozz avatar
    1. Unlike a lot of Democrats, he's actually not a shit sandwich. I know, I'm as surprised as anybody.
    2. I have bad news for you about what Trump is gonna do. He's not gonna have to supply anybody engaged in genocide or be "complicit" in it or present any kind of argument about whether him being rude to Netanyahu deserves any credit or anything, because he's just going to be the one genociding. We already had concentration camps under Trump, and they have a detailed plan for how to take it much further this time.
    Nudding ,

    None of that has anything to do with my comment.

    mozz OP Admin ,
    mozz avatar

    Is this like a new version of the Shaggy Defense or something 😃

    A: Shit sandwich genocide and literally nothing else
    B: Shit sandwich genocide
    A: No idea what you're talking about bro, that's nothing to do with what I said

    Nudding ,

    🙄

    BestBouclettes ,

    To be fair the christo fascist will absolutely not stop supplying weapons to the genocidal country. He might even increase the output.

    Nudding ,

    Yeah that definitely sounds fair lol. Cool country with cool leaders.

    BestBouclettes ,

    Not a great choice indeed but one they'll have to make. The US is pretty flawed and it's showing more and more each year, with no sign of improvement.

    Nudding ,

    Mods removed my comment that said:

    A milquetoast shit sandwich that goes goes out of his way to supply a country engaged in genocide with weapons of war.

    Nice fucking censorship lmao.

    Akasazh ,
    @Akasazh@feddit.nl avatar

    Well.. the GOP seem convinced it's their best bet somehow.

    Mastengwe ,

    Not while they’re so plugged into the gEnOcIDe jOe trolls that suggest people not vote.

    Sterile_Technique , (edited )
    @Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world avatar

    I've only seen a couple encouraging people not to vote. Most of the folks pissed off at Biden for supporting genocide are still planning on voting for him - the genocide situation would be WAY worse under Trump. One of the reasons we're so pissed off (y'know, just in case genocide isn't reason enough by itself) is that Biden doing this WILL discourage his potential voters, and could very well be the thing that hands Trump the presidency. Those potential voters are going to be influenced by Biden's actions, not internet trolls.

    The criticism Biden's getting about his support for genocide is constructive and necessary, cuz he needs to fucking stop!

     

    And just in case it needs to be said: VOTE BIDEN. Regardless of how he handles Isreal. If Trump takes power again, Palestine is fucked, Ukraine is fucked, Taiwan is fucked, your rights and neighbors are fucked, the climate is fucked (well, faster than it already is, at least), our democracy is fucked... this is not hyperbole: seriously, vote for the guy the has the best shot against Trump, and that guy is Biden.

    Mastengwe ,

    There’s a LOT of them here I’ve debated with them and tried reasoning with them like everyone else has. They’re either total lost causes, or right-wing trolls.

    Either way, their message is the same.

    mozz OP Admin ,
    mozz avatar

    I think they’re almost all trolls. There tend to be little weirdnesses or inconsistencies in their stories if you really look at where they say they’re coming from and compare it to what they’re doing and saying. And their heart’s not really in it. There tend to be like 1 or 2 things they like to say about any given situation, and then once they’ve got their talking points in, it’s just content-free rudeness or sudden silence or them changing the subject to something else. Usually people who are interested enough in politics to talk about it to strangers on the internet have some sort of learned knowledge base in it even if it’s a little shallow or one-sided. With them it’s literally “Rail strike, union buster, QED, next topic pls.”

    Trying to “win” a debate with them is obviously pure futility but I actually think it’s good for the discourse to have them around spouting this stuff for as long as they’re going to do such a crappy job at it. It’s like a politics version of Cunningham’s Law.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    > There tend to be little weirdnesses or inconsistencies in their stories if you really look at where they say they’re coming from and compare it to what they’re doing and saying. And their heart’s not really in it.

    can you explain this more?

    mozz OP Admin ,
    mozz avatar

    How do you feel about American foreign policy in Central and South America?

    Mastengwe ,

    So VERY well played! Damn that was well done man.

    Bravo!

    One of them shows up to start winding into their typical propaganda bullshit and you shut it down with a single question.

    Beautifully done.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    calling me a troll doesn't explain what they are talking about, but it is a personal attack.

    Mastengwe ,

    I’ve been warned about you enough times to know not to engage. Go away.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >I’ve been warned about you

    i don't know what that means, but if you make personal attacks, you should expect pushback.

    Mastengwe ,

    Go away.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    this is a non sequitur.

    mozz OP Admin ,
    mozz avatar

    No particular opinion about it you want to share?

    I would think as a person with opinions so strong about geopolitics and America's role in the world, that you'd be okay with enabling Hitler 2.0 to come to power in your own country because of them... you'd have some kind of opinion on it, even if it wasn't directly relatable to any current election going on just right at this moment.

    Just one of those little mysteries, I guess.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >No particular opinion about it you want to share?

    no. this is a red herring, and doesn't explain what you meant at all.

    mozz OP Admin ,
    mozz avatar

    I think it does though.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >you'd be okay with enabling Hitler 2.0

    that's a lie

    mozz OP Admin ,
    mozz avatar

    Wait, have I misunderstood? Who are you planning to vote for / do you think people should vote for in the general election in November?

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >Who are you planning to vote for

    frankly i havent decided yet

    i've been giving money to cornel west, but jill stein said the greens could hit 5% this year

    mozz OP Admin ,
    mozz avatar

    Ah. So somehow we've meandered our way back around from Central and South America to "Voting is a waste of time; I as a good left-wing person am going to vote third party and here's why."

    Welp, now that we've had that blistering rebuttal to what I was saying about how the shills operate, I have to get on with my day. All the best, love and kisses.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >Ah. So somehow we've meandered our way back around from Central and South America

    you mean i didn't take teh bait on your nonsequitur

    mozz OP Admin ,
    mozz avatar

    In what way is asking what you believe on a topic most geopolitically-interested left wing people have pretty strong opinions on, "bait"?

    Edit: You know what, don't feel like you have to answer that; I don't want to continue the back and forth and I feel like the exchange so far pretty much speaks for itself.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    it was a nonsequitur that would have led us away from you answering the question, which you still haven't done (and, frankly, i never expected you to do)

    yarr ,

    Question I am too squeamish to answer = non-sequitur

    federatingIsTooHard ,
    @federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

    it had nothing to do with it the discussion at hand

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >"Voting is a waste of time; I as a good left-wing person am going to vote third party and here's why."

    this is a strawman. you've made a leap of logic and put words in my mouth.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >we've had that blistering rebuttal what I was saying about how the shills operate

    you still haven't explained what you meant. this whole "conversation" has been you being evasive and trying to paint me as a shill.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >do you think people should vote

    in teh words of pat the bunny,

    vote november second if it seems right to you
    don't vote if you think it just holds us down
    but tell me what we're going to do on november third
    to make sure there's no government left to elect two years from now.

    Cryophilia ,

    Holy shit you broke him my dude 😂

    cygon ,

    I've seen these people pop up a lot here, too.

    I just assumed that this is the flavor of far-right influencing campaigns we get to see on Lemmy. Since the normal "far-right and Russia good, liberals and EU/Democrats bad because {manliness/financial elite/globalism/cabal}" angle is pretty much a lost cause here, the next best thing they can do is reduce turnout via resignation and bitterness.

    Mastengwe ,

    Spot on observation I’d say. I’ve had the unfortunate experience in dealing with them for quite a while now and I’d say not one has shown any evidence to support an argument against what you’re saying.

    Zipitydew ,

    That's exactly what it is. The best way to get the left to stay home is focusing on ideological purity. They'll suggest Biden isn't a true leftist therefore you're not upholding your morals if you vote for him. Then say if you do still feel the need to vote pick Cornell West or Jill Stein. It's so obvious I have about a dozen accounts tagged now. It's even the same tactic foreign influence used in 2016.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    > They’ll suggest Biden isn’t a true leftist therefore you’re not upholding your morals if you vote for him.

    biden isn't a leftist at all

    Zipitydew ,

    https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/ddf8d257-0b8b-44f9-9890-399a9f124402.gif

    Suavevillain ,
    @Suavevillain@lemmy.world avatar

    If you're angry that Joe Biden has Genocide attached to his name, maybe push him to stop being an active part of it. It also doesn't help Biden isn't offering any message of hope. It is just once again I'm not the other guy. It is more effective to give people things to vote for than against.

    mozz OP Admin ,
    mozz avatar

    I put together a short list of the unprecedented things Biden has done domestically that make him a good choice to lead the country, although "not the end of democracy" would be a good enough reason to vote for him over Trump anyway.

    I can only speak for myself, but I'm just as disgusted that he's enabling genocide in Gaza as most people. I carry a certain amount of hope that he's going to stop, and I'm extremely in favor of the Ukraine and Israel aid bills being brought up as separate bills as they are now being brought up as. But let's see what the historically-Israel-supporting-no-matter-what rich fucks in congress do with it.

    Mastengwe ,

    Oh look, here’s one of them now!

    dirthawker0 ,

    Trump declared he would finish the job, as in complete the genocide, so I hope you won't help that happen. At least Biden is trying to give some relief to Palestinians. Being on Israel's side is US policy: they are our ally, for better or worse, for good or bad reasons. Personally, I think we should drop or reduce that alliance, but I'm not in charge.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    no one is saying don't vote, but plenty of people have told me my vote won't count

    Mastengwe ,

    Many people on lemmy are saying don’t vote. It’s not up for debate as anyone can see them factually suggesting this. And you know it.

    You’re being purposefully obtuse.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >Many people on lemmy are saying don’t vote.

    if that were true, you would be able to show it.

    Mastengwe ,

    Dude, I’m not entertaining your bad faith nonsense. Go pester someone else.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    your accusation of bad faith is, itself, bad faith

    Mastengwe ,

    Go away. I know what you’re trying to do.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    all I'm doing is correcting the record

    Mastengwe ,

    There’s no record to correct. Everyone is well aware of the anti-voting campaign on lemmy, it’s pretty well documented, and there’s entire posts dedicated to the topic. So I’ve nothing to prove to you about it.

    It’s plain as day to see, and my refusal to entertain your nonsense is not evidence to the contrary.

    Now go away.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    I did a search and couldn't find any evidence of it except people claiming it exists, or refuting that claim.

    Mastengwe ,

    Sorry you’re having such bad luck. I guess you’ll just have to disagree and just move on.

    Good luck.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    i linked the search, but you seem to want to ignore it. anyone reading this can see that.

    Mastengwe ,

    Don’t really care. What I say is true. There are tons of anti-Biden trolls in lemmy. That you seem to be so adamantly denying it says an awful lot.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >What I say is true.

    if it were true, you could provide evidence.

    Mastengwe ,

    You see, my not producing evidence because of simply being asked for it- does not make what I say untrue. You’d be well served to learn how this works because the real world doesn’t follow the edge-lord internet rules that state “if you don’t provide the evidence I’m entitled to, it means you’re wrong!”

    I just don’t entertain bad-faith requests. Nothing more or less.

    I’ve told you that I’m not answering you, what part of that are you aging trouble with?

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >You see, my not producing evidence because of simply being asked for it- does not make what I say untrue.

    i know that. in fact, i went and provided all the evidence i could about it, which is that it hasn't happened in at least three days, but it's my guess that it's made up entirely.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >“if you don’t provide the evidence I’m entitled to, it means you’re wrong!”

    this is a strawman and deeply dishonest. i provided a reasonable method for establishing the veracity of your claim and i was unable to substantiate it.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    i never asked you to provide any evidence

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >You’d be well served to learn how this works because the real world

    don't be condescending

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >I’ve told you that I’m not answering you,

    feel free to find the interogative i posed.

    Mastengwe ,

    Goodbye.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    bye

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >There are tons of anti-Biden trolls

    being anti-biden doesn't make someone a troll, and it doesn't mean they're saying not to vote.

    Mastengwe ,

    Anti-vote/biden… it’s the same here you’re it going to find many trump supporters in lemmy.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >Anti-vote/biden… it’s the same

    this is misinformation

    Mastengwe ,

    It’s not misinformation within the context of what I’m saying. Pay attention and stop trying to manufacture arguments.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    don't spread falsehoods and i won't correct you.

    bigMouthCommie ,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    https://lemmy.world/search?q=don%27t+vote&type=All&listingType=All&page=1&sort=New

    I know that .world is defederated from some big instances, but I don't think what you're saying is true. I went back three days.

    Mastengwe ,

    lol…. Okay man. Whatever you say.

    LovingHippieCat ,

    The article uses a single black college student who says he might vote for trump, and a single "liberal climate group" poll from a recent New York Times article. So a single student and poll mean that America is not realizing how bad things would be? If that was true there would be far more republicans winning special elections and the house would have swung to a much larger majority for the republicans. The problem lies in the polling and assuming polls are at all accurate. Polls haven't been super accurate for a while. Polls said Biden would be in a dead heat in 2020 but he won a decent victory, far more than the polls expected. The polls said 2018 was gonna be a good year for democrats, which was right, but the polls far underestimated the turn out. In 2016 the polls had Clinton winning over trump but that didn't happen in the states it needed to happen in, despite most of the polls saying it would. In 2022, the polls expected republicans to get over 20 or 30 seats. That didn't happen. Using barely any evidence to show how America isn't understanding whats going on just ignores that the majority definitely understand. Its just that 43-46 percent of voters, who are the most likely ones to respond to polls, will always support trump. We can't base our view on the election just because of polls. Look at the actual elections that democrats usually have been winning where they need to be winning.

    Also, it's not that I don't think there are people who don't understand how bad a second Trump term would be, it's just that those are a minority and will get smaller as the election gets closer.

    Of course at the end of the day, we just have to vote. Ignore the polls, they're all bullshit, you just gotta vote.

    homesweethomeMrL ,

    Hey, hey - are you trying to whip up a horserace to drive clicks for your billionaire masters?? Well then let them do their job!

    homesweethomeMrL ,

    Who the fuck are “voters” and why are they so goddamned stupid

    mozz OP Admin ,
    mozz avatar

    Because the news misleads them, all the time and constantly

    MegaUltraChicken ,
    @MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world avatar

    A lot of people also really don't understand how our government/elections work. The war on having an educated populace has been pretty successful in my opinion. Especially in Conservative areas of the country.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Liberals will complain to high heaven about how the NYT or WaPo or NPR has lied to them once again, then mechanically kick in another bucket of money during fundraising season.

    Because we need a free, fair, and independent press, you see?

    Pips , (edited )

    Most people, let alone voters, don't actually watch or read any actual reporting regardless of bias. They get news through content-creators, so it's all bite-sized with all critical thinking removed.

    centof ,

    You've got to remember that these are just simple voters. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.

    reddwarf ,
    @reddwarf@feddit.nl avatar

    Yeah, well, up yours n*****!

    Mastengwe ,

    Most of them are anti-Biden propaganda spreading trolls and most of them aren’t of voting age anyway.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    most of them aren’t of voting age anyway

    The Child Soldiers of Trump's posting army

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    People picked Biden because they were angry at the incumbent and now their picking Trump because they're angry at the incumbent.

    In America you only get two options. Historically, those two options were different flavors of empty suit. But every now and again, you get a real piece of shit a la Nixon or Trump who figured out how to weasel their way through a primary.

    And then it's just a 50/50 as to whether they win

    mozz OP Admin ,
    mozz avatar

    People picked Biden because they were angry at the incumbent and now their picking Trump because they're angry at the incumbent.

    People picked Biden because around a million people died during Trump's botched Covid response, and because he was clearly an incompetent naked criminal fascist who kept talking about undoing democracy in the United States and actively trying to do it. People are now picking Trump because their news media has told them outlandish lies about Biden that make him sound like Kim Jong Un came to the United States, and they're trying to do the right thing by getting rid of him. Sometimes, simple innate "anger" at the incumbent leads people to vote against him, but I think in this specific election that's a very small part of it.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    People picked Biden because around a million people died during Trump’s botched Covid response

    More people voted for Donald Trump in 2020 than in 2016. Biden flipped swing states that Hillary lost because of her shit reputation on labor issues. But then Biden took office and broke a railroad strike, undermined the UAW during their auto worker's strike, and failed to pass the PRO Act with a Dem majority. He's significantly less popular in these Midwestern states than he was four years ago.

    People are now picking Trump because their news media has told them outlandish lies about Biden

    What? That he's old? That appears to be the entire media critique of his candidacy.

    They support his Israel policy. They want to see him funnel another $100B in military spending to Ukraine. They love how he's bent over backwards to curb inflation, just as wages were beginning to rise. But since climate change and war are a bummer to read about after three nightmarish years, we're getting a slew of stories that amount to "Yo, did you notice how old this old guy is?!"

    Sometimes, simple innate “anger” at the incumbent leads people to vote against him, but I think in this specific election that’s a very small part of it.

    Sometimes media moguls just want another big Republican tax cut. Sometimes the conservatives smell blood in the water with abortion, environmental regs, LGBT rights, and labor rights all up for grabs. Sometimes the guy who gave Strom Thurmond's eulogy just isn't able to stay in touch with the youth vote.

    Biden's got a lot working against him. The singular point in his favor is "Trump Will Destroy America!!!" And when the major American exports appear to be carbon emissions and bombs targeted at brown people, its getting harder and harder to convince people that this would be a bad thing.

    Zipitydew ,

    People. People are always the problem.

    yarr ,

    You know how the average IQ in the US is 100? Well, consider the giant list of people that fall under that line who are just as qualified to vote as anyone else. Support education folks! The cure is critical thinking.

    Zak ,
    @Zak@lemmy.world avatar

    Are you better off now than you were four years ago?

    • I have enough toilet paper
    • There are no refrigerator trucks full of corpses
    • Nobody has made a serious attempt to overthrow the government this year

    Yes, I think I'm better off than I was four years ago.

    mozz OP Admin ,
    mozz avatar

    Has the weird goulash of overwhelming profit-driven chaos that is the modern news media produced in you a vague emotional sense that things are getting better, or worse, since you're too exhausted with simply having to survive in our ever-more-hellish reality to have a second to take stock of where we're at and think back, even if our educational system had equipped you with enough critical-thinking tools to take the question seriously and produce a reasoned response?

    • I support Trump so I will say "worse"
    • I don't know, maybe better, I just don't know
    • Please don't ask me questions, I'm so tired, please can I just have a day to rest or something
    Theprogressivist ,
    @Theprogressivist@lemmy.world avatar

    Things can always be better, but we are better off now than before, imo at least.

    WaxedWookie ,

    I'd recommend you exit the right-wing media loop - it's well established that it is designed to provoke fear and disgust responses that'll burn you out pretty quickly. It'll also fill your head with the kind of transparent nonsense that would motivate you to vote Trump, but that's a different issue.

    TheRealKuni ,

    I’m not sure that commenter actually supports Trump or if they were using that as an example answer to the question.

    mozz OP Admin ,
    mozz avatar

    Yeah the way I presented my pretend survey was pretty confusing I think. The three bullet points were meant as the three possible answers, by way of explanation of why the polls about "are you better off etc" look the way they do. I am not a Trump supporter, no.

    WaxedWookie ,

    My mistake.

    MyNamesNotRobert ,

    Huh.. I'm not well off but I wasn't 4 years ago either. Still coasting off the savings I stockpiled from when times were easier and Obama was president though.

    TransplantedSconie ,
    @TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee avatar

    The collective memory of this country could maybe fill a thimble. Jesus Jumping Christ

    simplejack ,
    @simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

    Don’t forget how Trump expertly healed a nation struggling with racial injustice. Under his watch we had weeks of riots and fires in every major metro area in America.

    Elementary school aged children in cages was also a real gem.

    Trump 2024: Cages, corpses, and chaos.

    Everythingispenguins ,

    That sounds like the tag line for a black metal tour

    Mirshe ,

    Oh, and in respect to that: don't forget that it was Trump's administration that signed off on unmarked federal vans black-bagging protestors in Portland, and Trump himself who had DC Police disperse a protest just so he could take a photo in front of a church, AND that Trump actually wanted to deploy military force against the protests - he explicitly wanted the military to "machine-gun them in the streets" like he's Tsar Alexander.

    Mostly_Gristle ,

    Nobody has made a serious attempt to overthrow the government this year

    ...Yet

    demosthememes ,
    @demosthememes@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Soothsayer: "Beware the Ides of March"
    ... many moments later
    Caesar: "Well, the Ides of March are come..."
    Soothsayer: Aye, Caesar, but not gone"

    Incidentally, the 15th of March, today, is the Ides of March.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Nobody has made a serious attempt to overthrow the government this year

    Oh come on. You know that statement isn't going to last through Thanksgiving

    EchoCranium ,

    I laughed at this comment, but also a half second later think, "unfortunately there's a chance they're right."

    mozz OP Admin ,
    mozz avatar

    It is highly likely that there will be a concerted effort to overthrow the government at election time. The right is actively recruiting people to go and get involved with the election process to make sure the results of the election come out the way they want it to; threats of violence against election workers have already led to a bunch of them quitting because they didn't sign up for that.

    Honestly, one of the most patriotic things a young able-bodied person could do right now would be to volunteer to become an election worker. From what I saw when I voted just recently, they're not equipped (nor should it be their responsibility) to handle an influx of people who are ready to threaten them with for-real violence if they don't step aside and let the men with guns dictate what the outcome of the election is going to be.

    That's without even considering what people inside the government could do to steal the election (as they already have done in the year 2000, when they had a lot less on-the-ground muscle and popularity than they do now).

    dirthawker0 ,

    I am much less likely to become a corpse myself. That was a genuinely scary period, people going crazy buying TP, minimal food on the shelves, getting stared at (and clerks surreptitiously wiping the grocery conveyor after I used it, but fortunately nothing violent) because I am Asian. And just the not knowing enough about transmission and prevention.

    Republicans: but gas was so cheap!

    Hazzia ,

    There are no refrigerator trucks full of corpses

    YOOO I FUCKIN FORGOT ABOUT THE COVID CORPSE TRUCKS.

    Damn 2020 really do be feeling more and more like a fever dream.

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