Trump must pay E. Jean Carroll over $83 million in defamation damages, jury rules ( www.nbcnews.com )

Former President Donald Trump must pay writer E. Jean Carroll over $83 million in damages for repeatedly defaming her, a jury found Friday.

The nine-person jury began deliberations in federal court in New York at 1:40 p.m. ET and reached a verdict in just under three hours.

PrinceWith999Enemies ,

Trump's attorney Alina Habba contended that Carroll “had failed to show she is entitled to any damages at all” because she "actively sought the comments and the attention" she received.

Wow. They actually used the “she was asking for it” argument against a victim of sexual assault.

Also, he’s still not going to shut up about it and will land back in court under additional defamation charges.

Telorand ,

Not exactly. It's far more insidious (and stupid). Her tact was to show that Carroll already received her financial reward by all the books and news appearances (i.e. the "comments and attention"). Basically, "Sure, she was raped, but look how well she profited from it!"

Too bad that kind of argument is only really relevant to the first trial. This one was punitive damages for failing to shut up after losing the first one, the purpose of which is to punish Trump so he thinks twice about doing it again, not award reparations to Ms. Carroll.

Alina Habba is truly the lawyer Trump deserves.

akilou ,

Can't wait for someone to ask him about the case at a rally or something. He won't be able to help himself.

PrinceWith999Enemies ,

I agree, and my comment was intended as a reference not to the original rape but to the defense saying that she did not deserve any additional compensation due to Trump’s ongoing defamation because she wanted to profit off of it.

If I remember, one of his initial defenses against the allegations of rape was that the woman accusing him was too unattractive to rape, while other defenses were “they just let you do it.” I was thinking about the ironic application of the “asking for it” argument being applied to the additional judgement of defamation.

He’s going to triple down on this though, because he never thinks twice about anything. I don’t know if he is actually playing the game of “never admit to being wrong even when you are” or if he’s simply delusional enough to have reconstructed reality in his own brain, but I’d lay a wager that he’s not going to be able to shut up about this, even now. I don’t think it will even take a reporter triggering him by asking about it. I think it’s just going to pop out in one of his word salad campaign rambles.

Telorand ,

I think it’s just going to pop out in one of his word salad campaign rambles.

And I can't wait for that to happen, because I'm sure a third jury will be so pleased (/s) he did it a third time.

jonne ,

Maybe next time he could at least be smart enough to do it in a red state.

Buddahriffic ,

He knows very well how profitable being a victim can be and must think that that's why anyone is a victim. They don't win cases (because Trump hasn't ever really had a case), they settle out of court or gain from the sympathy of others.

Yerbouti , (edited )

I hope this goes on forever: he keeps defaming, she keeps sueing. Cause we all know this fat turd wont keep his mouth shut.

TheWoozy ,

He's keeping it shut so far this time. This fine is enough to hurt.

cosmicrookie ,
@cosmicrookie@lemmy.world avatar

Any news on what the legal costs have been?

Riccosuave OP , (edited )
@Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

NYT reported $60 million back in August.

Trump said his legal fees were close to $100 million while campaigning in Iowa in late October.

The truth is that nobody really knows the hard total, though based on available information it seems like it could be upwards of $5 million per month on average.

Tristaniopsis ,

Badda Bing, Badda Boom.

Snapz ,

Fucking loser always loses.

He's demonstrably the actual biggest loser in history, and he just got more loser-y folks... If any of you are starting to have your memories fade, here's a quick refresher to read this morning and then copy and send to your aunt karen in Missouri.

  • 0 re-elections won
  • 1 term president
  • 2 times impeached
  • 3 marriages
  • 4 inch lifts in his shoes
  • 5 kids, from 3 different mothers
  • 6 bankruptcies
  • 7 US Capitol police suing him for Jan 6 terrorist insurrection and murder of police
  • 8 trillion + dollars added to the US debt in a single term
  • 9 trump lawyers sanctioned by federal judge for lying in frivolous election fraud lawsuits and ordered to pay defendant's legal fees
  • 10 years that trump paid $0 in income taxes between 2000 and 2015. ($0 to cops, teachers, roads, prisons, disaster relief, etc)
  • 11 trump associates charged with serious crimes over the past 5 years
  • 12 million votes (the big lie) - trump claims he won the 2020 election by 12 million votes when in reality, he lost by about 7 million votes.
  • 13 of August, 2021 - one of multiple days that trump was supposed to magically become president again according to Qanon and a crack addicted pillow salesman (the two most respected information sources in the gop)
  • 14 year old girl in a youth choir that trump approached in 1992 to say, "Wow! Just think - in a couple years I'll be dating you."
  • 15 originally confirmed cases of COVID in the US trump said would soon be, “down to close to zero.” followed by, “like a miracle, it will disappear.” - over 1,000,000 Americans have since died of COVID as it continues to kill years later.
  • 16 years old - age of daughter ivanka when she hosted "miss teen" pageant and, according to long time trump associate Noel Casler, "trump called her over in the middle of a rehearsal and had her give him a lap dance while he leered at the crew."
  • 17 known trump and russia investigations from local, state and federal prosecutors
  • 18 gop senators that ignored trump threats / warnings and supported Biden admin's infrastructure bill.
  • 19 as in COVID19 - trump was verified as the single largest source of disinformation on the virus, with a Cornell study claiming that 38% of the "misinformation conversation" originated with trump
  • 20 the day in January, 2021, when Biden was sworn in despite trump inciting a violent insurrection to stop election verification at the US Capitol.
  • 21 gun salute that trump ordered for himself when he left office after a humiliating defeat, even though he never served in the military, famously called military members "losers" and "suckers" and actively avoided the draft with a cowardly "bone spurs" excuse.
  • 22 date in August, 2021, when Alabama hate rally crowd booed trump for finally saying people should get vaccinated, only after 700,000 Americans have died due mostly to his failure as president
  • 23 as in wrestlemania 23 in 2007 where trump, a cartoon level failure with no other prospects, participated in a fake bet that a proxy wrestler would win a fake fight on his behalf or he would shave his wig and hair plugs off.
  • 24 day in August, 2021, when trump actually filed a lawsuit in Florida court against YouTube, a private company, demanding that they reinstate his YouTube channel like a desperate, irrelevant embarrassment with no platforms left to abuse.
  • 25 plus credible sexual assault allegations against trump, spanning decades and with accusers starting as young as 13 years old at time of assault.
Tristaniopsis ,

Holy shit that’s an incredible list.
Amazing summation. Thanks.

He’s like an elite trailer park king of awfulness.

PsychedSy ,

At least fix the markdown ffs

OldWoodFrame ,

Some slight dissonance as you switch from "always loses" to "was president for 4 years"

Zink ,

Many people think he didn’t even want to win the first time around. Like the picture of his face when he found out, etc.

So maybe he actually lost that election vs his expectations.

catfish ,

losing the popular vote still counts

Semi-Hemi-Demigod ,
@Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social avatar

🎵 And a partridge in a pear treeeee 🎵

RampantParanoia2365 ,

....

83 - million dollars Trump has to pay to E. Jean Carrol for defamation.

Snapz ,

91 - indictments

set_secret ,

Honestly though, has trump ever paid anyone anything, like ever??

TheJims ,

God sent Trump… to rape women and harass them relentlessly while encouraging others to threaten their lives. God be praised. Praise be to the rapist messiah.

kingshrubb ,

People in this thread saying he's not going to pay. How can he just not pay if it's a court order? Genuinely curious how that works. (Assuming the appeal is denied or whatever the final number he owes is).

MimicJar ,

Someone can probably give a better answer, but it starts by him not paying.

He will appeal the result and that could easily take another year or so, during which time he doesn't pay.

Then he will just not pay, that will take some time since you can't complain to the courts that he didn't pay after 1 day, it probably takes at least 90 days, but realistically probably closer to 120 or 150 days so that he is REALLY overdue.

Then he is given a grace period to respond, that's another 30 to 60 days. He'll just say that he can't. That goes back and forth for a while, at least 6 months total.

Eventually the courts might put some sort of lien on Trump's income except he doesn't make money the traditional way, so it won't pay out. That takes another 6 months or so.

Then maybe they start going after assets. Assets aren't just free, so that takes even more time.

Also during all of this Trump moves assets around. He isn't allowed to, but he's already not allowed to and he has.

At some point in this process an agreement for a settlement is brought up. Trump will offer pennies on the dollar, which no one will accept. Trump will use this to bide even more time.

It's neverending legal maneuvering. Just bullshit on bullshit on bullshit. Eventually someone gives up or dies. It takes tens of tens of years. At any point Trump can just start to pay a little bit of it, then stop after a few months and the process starts again.

BTW if you don't pay your bills the full fury comes down on you. No baby gloves.

baru ,

He will appeal the result and that could easily take another year or so, during which time he doesn't pay.

To appeal he will have to put the amount ik escrow. Which negates a few of the statements you've made. Though completely agree that Trump usually goes for delay, delay, delay.

Got_Bent ,

On the assets, he probably also has them set up such that he doesn't "own" them.

FlowVoid , (edited )

In order to file an appeal, he has to pay immediately. The money doesn't go to Carroll, it goes into an escrow account until she wins the appeal. But either way, Trump is out $83 million. No pay = no appeal.

If he doesn't appeal and doesn't pay, then in 30 days Carroll's lawyers will have access to his bank accounts and properties. At that point it won't matter if he writes a check, they can simply take what they are entitled to directly from his bank. If there isn't enough in his account, they can start an auction for his properties. The only thing Trump could do would be to declare bankruptcy, and this would only slow down the process not stop it.

Trump can get away with not paying his contractors, but he can't get away with not paying a court judgment. Of note, back when he owed Carroll $5 million, he paid on time.

thereisalamp ,

Depends.

He could get a bond to secure the appeal of he can find a bank who will lend to him. Which might be easier, with what looks like the impending sale of his New York properties

FlowVoid ,

Yes, he could get a bond. But these bonds are generally 100% collateralized, because the bank is unlikely to get their money back. So that just means his property will be under lien during the appeal and auctioned off if he loses.

thereisalamp ,

Generally. Trump has an uncanny ability to secure bank loans though. And, if New York requires him to sell his properties in the fraud case it wouldn't surprise me if he was able to leverage the impending sale to secure the bond and then pull, well, a trump.

Remember, the rules you and I play by are not in effect here.

FlowVoid ,

Well, he was able to secure loans back before it was revealed that he misrepresented the value of his assets. Now, perhaps it won't be so easy.

thereisalamp ,

We can hope.

Wirrvogel ,

Trump has an uncanny ability to secure bank loans though

Not after 2020 anymore because:

President Donald Trump's lenders have forgiven around $287 million in debt that he didn't pay back, and most of it was related to Chicago's Trump Tower, according to a New York Times report

I am sure Deutsche Bank is not going to give him another Cent and any other bank will go and count stairs, because he is lying about everything, even about how many floors his buildings have. The times it was easy for him are over.

On top of the 83 million he has a huge amount to pay to his lawyers and since he is not accepting the outcome of the trial and he has another 14 or so going on... and taking money out of his election funds is now also harder to do and getting elected is more expensive because Koch is helping his opponent and Koch has a truly endless warchest.

Every financial transaction he does is under a looking glas now, no more face value and trust, he is seen as the financial sector should have seen him in the past: A naked "king" that pretends to wear nice clothes.

PsychedSy ,

You can also be judgement proof informally.

You and I are likely judgement proof in this sort of situation - we can't actually afford it. We're not rapist pieces of shit as well.

Iwasondigg ,

[Nelson voice] Haw Haw!

TokenBoomer ,

So, we getting new Trump NFT cards? I need to complete the set.

Riccosuave OP ,
@Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

Haven't seen you around in a while. Glad you're back. Can always count on you for a quality comment 😂

TokenBoomer ,

I get banned because… reasons. Hope you’re doing well.

federatingIsTooHard ,
@federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

capricious moderation. that's why.

TokenBoomer ,

I don’t mind. It keeps me from being stagnant and reminds me to adapt to the reader.

Riccosuave OP ,
@Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

Ditto, and glad you're back in action. See ya around!

LarryTheMatador ,
@LarryTheMatador@sh.itjust.works avatar

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    PsychedSy ,

    I'm in love with the concept that we're brave rather than foolish.

    PsychedSy ,

    This seems amazing. Just shy of starting a religion. I'm down if you're down.

    jordanlund Mod ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Same link got submitted within minutes of each other, need to pick which one stays and which ones go.

    Keeping the one with the most upvotes and comments, congratulations! A winner is you!

    Zerlyna ,
    @Zerlyna@lemmy.world avatar

    (In Nelson’s voice) “HA-HA!”

    twistypencil ,

    I'd be fine if he keeps doing this and Carroll just bleeds him and his supporters dry and she becomes mega rich

    OsrsNeedsF2P ,

    Punitive damages are capped under a million anyways

    No_Ones_Slick_Like_Gaston ,

    Tell that to the judge

    AngryCommieKender ,

    That depends on the circumstances of the case. In the case of certain federal crimes, murder, rape, and certain types of arson being a nonexhausive list, there's no cap.

    IANAL, but the ideas of Molon Labe, and FAFO are written into federal law, in multiple areas

    Edit: obviously this comment is talking about the US

    jordanlund Mod ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Not in this case they aren't:

    "The award included $11 million for damage to Carroll's reputation, $7.3 million for emotional harm and other damages, and $65 million in punitive damages."

    Just like Guiliani's case:

    https://apnews.com/article/giuliani-2020-election-georgia-defamation-moss-freeman-6f6446c4f5224f521db8ff7763fb12d1

    "There was an audible gasp in the courtroom when the jury foreperson read aloud the $75 million award in punitive damages for the women. Moss and Freeman were each awarded another roughly $36 million in other damages."

    RampantParanoia2365 ,

    ............obviously not.

    GenEcon ,

    As soon as he is president again, he will just change laws.

    eskimofry ,

    She will become.... maga rich

    Hotspur ,

    So can someone who knows tell me: how likely is it that she collects this?

    eestileib ,

    I wilt have thought zero, but she did get the $5m from the last case.

    Hotspur ,

    Didn’t know that, so that’s hopeful. I always just assume there’s ways for people like this to string it out and avoid paying.

    lemmefixdat4u ,

    Actually, the court got $5.5 million. It's being held until the appeal process is completed. Then Carroll will get that plus interest.

    Kethal ,

    According to other reporting, unless Trump successfully appeals it's very likely he will need to pay, and hewould be forced to sell assets if necessary. Even if he had some success on appeal, he'd still have to pay something. Although, no one was mentioning him declaring himself supreme leader if elected.

    jordanlund Mod ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Trump will tie it up in court until they're both dead.

    BoxerDevil ,

    Can we start a pool on when/if he actually pays?

    Gargantuanthud ,

    I'll bet it all on never.

    meco03211 ,

    Is it considered paying if it's forcefully garnished?

    lemmefixdat4u ,

    Carroll may not be paid for years if Trump strings out the appeals. But to appeal, he has to either pay the entire award to the court first, or he can use an appeal bond - assuming any financial institution will give him one. His credit rating is questionable with all these trials hanging over his head. $83 million here, maybe $370 million there, unknown amounts in the documents and vote tampering cases. And nobody is actually sure how much he's worth. The Trump brand is damaged goods.

    He's under a financial microscope at the moment. He can't reassign any assets until the two civil trials are completed and paid. Whether Carroll sees the entire award depends on the NY fraud outcome and what Trump's assets are really worth. Maybe his cracker jack attorney will miss the 2 week appeal deadline, allowing Carroll to seize his liquid assets and put liens on Trump's real estate holdings.

    FlowVoid , (edited )

    He already paid the previous $5 million. Technically it's in an escrow pending appeal, so Carroll doesn't have it yet. But regardless, Trump is out $5 million.

    Now Trump has four choices:

    1. Pay the $83 million to Carroll

    2. File an appeal, which means either paying $83 million into an escrow account or putting a lien on his properties and getting a bank to pay $83 million into an escrow account. Either way, Carroll gets the money as soon as she wins the appeal

    3. Do nothing. This is the worst option, because after 30 days Carroll's lawyers would start choosing Trump properties to auction off and/or directly withdrawing money from his bank accounts.

    4. Declare bankruptcy. This could introduce a delay, but it will inevitably result in Trump properties being auctioned off.

    eestileib ,

    Option 3 doesn't seem to be working for Alex Jones's creditors.

    FlowVoid , (edited )

    He chose option 4, and his estate is facing liquidation.

    The_v ,

    Wouldn't New York have a lien on most of his properties with their fraud case?

    I guess he will likely will try to appeal the amount and leverage another lein onto his properties. He could also use his grift money from the PAC's to pay into the escrow.

    Of course his appeal will go swimmingly when he defames her again in 3... 2... 1...

    FlowVoid ,

    He can't appeal the amount. He has to put the amount into escrow before he can appeal. That's standard practice for courts, so that people don't try to weasel out of paying. Trump isn't the first person to lose a big lawsuit....

    If all of Trump's properties are under lien and he has nothing left in his bank accounts, then that leaves option 4.

    Blackmist ,

    If it's paid at all, it'll be out of simp donation money.

    Heir_Of_Isildur ,

    That's the very sad truth of current US politics

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