JK Rowling in ‘arrest me’ challenge over Scottish hate crime law ( www.bbc.com )

JK Rowling has challenged Scotland's new hate crime law in a series of social media posts - inviting police to arrest her if they believe she has committed an offence.

The Harry Potter author, who lives in Edinburgh, described several transgender women as men, including convicted prisoners, trans activists and other public figures.

She said "freedom of speech and belief" was at an end if accurate description of biological sex was outlawed.

Earlier, Scotland's first minister Humza Yousaf said the new law would deal with a "rising tide of hatred".

The Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021 creates a new crime of "stirring up hatred" relating to age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or being intersex.

…

Ms Rowling, who has long been a critic of some trans activism, posted on X on the day the new legislation came into force.

Dkarma ,

Who knewa serial plagiarist would be a shit person

flemtone ,

Hate is the keyword here, stating something factual is fine but as we all know someone somewhere will misuse this act if they are butthurt enough

cosmicrookie ,
@cosmicrookie@lemmy.world avatar

The same law that prohibits hatred towards transgenders transgender people also prohibits it towards age discriination. (“stirring up hatred” relating to age, disability etc).

Does this mean you can't call me a boomer any longer?

bingbong ,

Ok boomer

cosmicrookie ,
@cosmicrookie@lemmy.world avatar

-Hello Police? I want to report a crime!

crazyCat ,

euro siren noises

irreticent ,
@irreticent@lemmy.world avatar

"Your sirens sound like gay guys having a threesome."

Kit ,

FYI, you shouldn't use the term "transgenders". Transgender is an adjective, so you would say "transgender people". Using that word makes you sound similar to a grandpa who refers to his black neighbors as "coloreds".

cosmicrookie ,
@cosmicrookie@lemmy.world avatar

Thank you. I must admit that I don't always get this right, but this is entirely due to English not being my main language. That said, I did think about using it in the same way as people with disabilities, but thought that sexuality(gender?) is more defining than what disability one may have and would not be perceived negatively. Actually, thinking about it, why is it any different than calling someone a man or a woman?
I will note this for the future though, because although it does not necessarily make sense to me, it doesn't hurt me to use it the way it is prefered. Thank you again.

Kit ,

"Man" and "Woman" are nouns. "Transgender" is an adjective. When you refer to a person as an adjective, it dehumanizes and stereotypes them. Here's some sentences that show how awkward and off-putting it sounds:

  1. "The crippled should be grateful for the accommodations provided."
  2. "I don't feel comfortable around the blacks in our neighborhood."
  3. "Those poors are just lazy and don't want to work."
  4. "I heard the gays are organizing a protest downtown."
  5. "The whites always seem to get preferential treatment."
cosmicrookie ,
@cosmicrookie@lemmy.world avatar

I am only trying to understand this better, so excuse me stepping any toes here, but why is transgender not a noun too? Is this because it describes the type of man or woman one is? I would assume that if used neutrally, it could as well be a noun.

knightly ,
@knightly@pawb.social avatar

Men and women are nouns.

Male and female can be nouns or adjectives depending on usage. It's demeaning to refer to women as "females", but calling someone part of your female friend group doesn't make one sound like a Ferengi because it's being used as an adjective to describe the friend group.

Halosheep ,

This is stupid. People often say things like "the gays" or "the straights" to refer to the group of individuals who identify as such. Drawing the line at "transgenders" feels silly.

lady_maria ,
@lady_maria@lemmy.world avatar

Are you a transgender person? If not, why would that determination be up to you?

Halosheep ,

I'm white and cisgendered and yet have no determination whether or not internet communities like "arethestraightsokay" are fine to exist.
Am I not allowed a voice?

lady_maria ,
@lady_maria@lemmy.world avatar

You are allowed a voice, yes. Haven't you just used it?

Your right to use your voice doesn't protect you from potential criticism from those who hear it. You do not have the authority dictate what is acceptable/unacceptable regarding trans issues as a cis person (nor what we should call trans people), just as I—another white cis person—have no right to claim what is or isn't okay when it comes to issues unique to POC.

I don't have the background and life experience of non-white/trans people, so I'll continue to follow and amplify the words of those in any marginalized group that I am not a part of. There are enough people ignoring and talking over them already.

Halosheep ,

Well, you can continue being overly self righteous to your heart's content
While you write way too damn much on the subject, another lemmy post comes by and shock someone references the gays on a 196 post in a non offensive manner.

Get over yourself lol

Ashe ,

It's literally slur reclamation. The same way you'll find the f slur in queer spaces sometimes but not others. Referring to trans people as "transgenders" or even just referring to someone as "a trans" is actively used in an extremely hateful way frequently. If you're cis, it might be a good idea to just accept that people don't like to be referred to that way.

Just an idea.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Was I supposed to start calling you a boomer at some point?

Dkarma ,

Right after they labeled themselves as boomers

Etterra ,

Please do. She may see herself as some kind of martyr, but everyone else just sees her as an idiot.

cosmicrookie ,
@cosmicrookie@lemmy.world avatar

I may not have the whole facts and information, but to me, it is beginning to sound more like a witch-hunt. Just let her have her opinions and move forward

Syndic ,

How's telling her that she has shitty opinion a witch hunt, but her using her fame and wealth to spread her shitty opinion way beyond what a normal random person could ever do, isn't?

cosmicrookie ,
@cosmicrookie@lemmy.world avatar

As mentioned, I do not have all the details. I have heard some of her ideas, but I don't follow her that closely. Many famous people have terrible ideas and many fans to spread their ideas to. To me it mostly looks like people being hurt even more by JK, because they like the universe that she has created but her ideology does not fit their own.

It's fair to feel like this, but she is just one person sharing her ideas. Nobody goes like: "JK is against trans people, so I am too". At least they shouldn't and at least we should expect most people don't. Just let her have her opinions and leave it at that

nac82 ,

You say ypu don't have all the details to rid yourself of being responsible for the hate you are defending, because you're an idiot.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

"I don't know the details, but this person is being falsely accused" is not a very rational position, so I hope you didn't think it was.

laughterlaughter ,

Nobody goes like: “JK is against trans people, so I am too”.

Oh sweet summer child.

nac82 ,

If you don't have all the facts, then it's best to shut up and move forward.

Learn to take your own advice before telling others to do it.

cosmicrookie ,
@cosmicrookie@lemmy.world avatar

I guess I'm going to let you have your own opinion about that as well, and just move forward...

nac82 ,

Good for you.

Go defend radical hate to somebody who cares what uninformed idiots have to say.

gapbetweenus ,

Her opinion on trans folks is shit, but people should not go to jail for shit opinions. Broken clock and stuff.

cro_magnon_gilf ,

That's starting to be an unusual stance

TheRealKuni ,

What she’s saying here probably doesn’t rise to the level of criminality under their law. She’s just doing performative nonsense while proving yet again that she doesn’t understand the difference between sex and gender.

TheEntity ,

People shouldn't go to jail for shit opinions, I agree. That changes when their opinions become more than opinions.

Reddfugee42 ,

Is there a crime for nebulous comments?

gapbetweenus ,

That's cryptic.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

And she won't. This is the same performative bullshit Jordan Peterson pulled in Canada.

BreakDecks ,

Hateful ideas can be dangerous things. This is why insulting people in Germany can turn into a criminal offense. They know where that goes if left unchecked.

Also, remember, not every country is the USA where breaking the law = going to jail. It can just be a fine the first few times and jail only when you show no intent on ceasing what you're doing.

JKR is being hyperbolic with this "arrest me" thing. She's playing the victim for her TERF followers.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Also, remember, not every country is the USA where breaking the law = going to jail.

If you're poor and black, sure.

Notice how many times Trump has flagrantly broken the law.

gapbetweenus ,

I'm from Germany, the only way insulting someone is going to be a criminal case is if you insult police. Otherwise it gets almost always dropped.

So you want the government to decide which ideas are ok and which should be banned? How could this ever go wrong.

UnrepententProcrastinator ,

It's more complicated than that.
Like saying there is a fire in a theatre when there is none, saying transgender are undercover perverts and a danger to society when it's not supported by evidence will get people killed.
Freedom of speech is great and all but when your lie and put people in danger there should be consequences.

saintshenanigans ,

And just for the record, this is not a theory. People HAVE been murdered.

gapbetweenus ,

Sick people are inspired to violence by all kind of thing, are we going to outlaw Catcher in the Rye?

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

Have as many opinions as you want, but if you spread shit like "we should exterminate the lesser races" and "trans people are rapists" you earn a vacation at the greybar hotel for abusing your right of free speech to infringe on other people's rights.

gapbetweenus ,

The question is where the line is drawn and how to make sure the state is not abusing those powers to suppress opinions that it sees dangerous. A good example are cases when protecting the children is used as argument for more surveillance. This seems foelr me to go along the same lines.

Red_October ,

Sometimes the question of "Where do we draw the line" is an important, valid question that must be considered. Sometimes, the answer to that question can also be "I don't know precisely, but this is damn well over it."

I'm not saying that hack writer is necessarily to that stage, but we absolutely should not allow "But where do you draw the line" to turn into "Everything is permitted because what about splitting hairs."

schnurrito ,

I used to not really like JKR for reasons like these: https://stallman.org/harry-potter.html

I am not completely sure where I stand on her substantive opinions in relation to trans issues. I think it's a debate where both sides make some good points.

But she is definitely right about the decline of free speech.

Piatro ,

In the nicest possible way, what do you mean by "both sides" in this context? One side says that trans people either don't or shouldn't exist and the other side says they should exist. I know that may sound extreme or combative but that's fundamentally "the debate" so I genuinely want to understand how you reached this "both sides have merit" stance that some people close to me also take but I've never understood.

AnalogyAddict ,

The only merit that I can see is that some people feel that gender should be nothing more than a description of biological or, at least, physiological sex.

It confuses me to no end that my very girly oldest child identifies male, especially since hearing them talk about it, it seems more a rejection of being seen as a sexual object than any desire to be a man.

If my kid wants to identify male while being born a girl and being super into makeup, dresses, and sparkle, and that helps them deal with their sexual abuse, more power to them. Even if it breaks my old person brain a little.

Nothing excuses hating someone or being angry because they disagree with you about the definition of gender. I mean, if a woman assaults another female person, the punishment should be the same, right? It's not like men can't go into women's bathrooms anyways if their mind is set on it.

Piatro ,

Yeah then you start debating the merits of hate crime as a concept and I am not even slightly equipped to deal with that!

I had similar queries around "biological sex" vs gender a while ago and my understanding now is that biological sex is surprisingly hard to define. You can't go by genitalia because sometimes a person creates the "wrong" ones. You can't go by chromosomes because again, sometimes they're different. And you can't go by other physical traits (Adams apple for example) because again sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not, completely unrelated to sex. You can sort of go by hormones but not really (just look at professional sport) so it's all a bit of a mess. It's way easier for me to just accept there's a spectrum and move on, because to me it's way harder to actually define where the line is than to just dismiss the line entirely.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

It confuses me to no end that my very girly oldest child identifies male, especially since hearing them talk about it, it seems more a rejection of being seen as a sexual object than any desire to be a man.

Even psychiatrists don't psychoanalyze their own children.

Maybe instead of hearing your child talk about it, talk to your child about it. Children aren't clay that you stick in a you-shaped mold and expect them to come out no different from you.

Maybe your "very girly" oldest child identifies as male because that's what they consider themselves to be and your definition of "very girly" isn't the same as theirs.

Do you self-identify as male? Do you wear any colors other than grey? Congratulations, you're "very girly" according to the first half of the 20th century.

AnalogyAddict ,

What makes you think I haven't done such an obvious thing as to talk with my kid about it?

Good grief.

Put down the pitchfork.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Because you said "it seems" which suggests you are guessing but don't actually know.

And also because you think your own biased view of what is "very girly" has something to do with your child's gender identity.

So maybe you have talked to them about it, I don't know, but it doesn't sound like you listened.

I mean this alone-

Even if it breaks my old person brain a little.

It should no more break your old person brain any more than it should finding out your child is not heterosexual. If it is breaking your brain, you need to check your prejudices.

I'm glad your wouldn't do anything about a child's self-defined gender, but you still need to look at what you're saying and how you're judging.

Cosmicomical ,

The post you posted clearly shows.that she is on the side that CAUSES the decline in free speech

Colour_me_triggered ,

If I had her money, I wouldn't spend my time bullying people and starting fights with the police. She's clearly insane in the most fundamental way.

Cosmicomical ,

But strange enough, her insanity mostly damages others and has no negative impact on her life. How comes?

irreticent ,
@irreticent@lemmy.world avatar

Money.

kescusay ,
@kescusay@lemmy.world avatar

I am so fucking sick of these bigots pretending the science of "biological sex" is on their side.

In recent years, multiple studies of the brains of trans people have revealed areas of differentiation from those of cisgender people. And unless these bigots are prepared to argue that brains are not part of biology, they only have two choices: Deny the science somehow or accept that they're just bigots who want to hate, regardless of the science.

And because unlike bigots, I like to back my shit up:

On top of that, there's some indications of oligogenic causes resulting in various allele differences that wouldn't necessarily show up on a brain scan.

In conclusion: Fuck bigots and their attempts to co-opt science in order to support their bigotry.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I'm glad you're backing it up, but honestly, the answer to this whole "biological science" bullshit is simper- it's none of their fucking business how someone else identifies. I don't care what "science" says is a man or a woman. If someone says they're a woman, it's not my fucking business to tell them they aren't.

foggy ,

The issue at stake is people's own fragile identities

Let me clarify: JK Rowling's childhood learning of "boys have penises and girls have vaginas" runs so deep into her understanding of how she understands being a human that giving it up is scary and threatening.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Everything new to a conservative is scary and threatening.

billiam0202 ,

Deny the science

Sure thing Bob, let me just stack that in-between "Evolution" and "climate change" on my shelf of "Things that don't fit my bigoted, hateful, and selfish worldview, so I just conveniently ignore them."

Feddyteddy ,

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but why would you link to an article that mentions "biological sex" in the first sentence when trying to prove that there is no such thing as "biological sex"? I'm almost certainly missing something, so please excuse my ignorance.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You are misunderstanding. They are saying that biological sex is not the same as gender and it's clear that a trans woman's brain is much closer to their identified gender than the one assigned to them at birth.

Feddyteddy ,

So biological sex is real then? I keep being told that I fell for a lie that there is a such thing as "biological sex" and that there is no such thing as male and female humans. Is this not the case? Is "biological sex" a real thing?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I'm not sure how you think reproduction works...

Feddyteddy ,

I've always been under the impression that there are males and females. I know that sometimes they feel like they are in the wrong body, but I thought they were still males and females. I am repeatedly told by people in the trans community that this is a lie and that sex is not male and female and that this idea is part of their systemic oppression. I'm just trying to get a solid picture of what is going on exactly.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

No, they're telling you that gender is not sex.

Of course biological sex is real. It's just a lot more complicated than 'male' and 'female' because biology is not that simple. So yes, there are XY and XX humans and they can generally, but not universally, reproduce with each other. But that's not all there is. For instance XXY and XYY are both possible, although often come with a host of other genetic problems (but not always). There are also people born with both types of genitalia, sometimes functional and sometimes not. On top of that, there are conditions like Swyer Syndrome, where someone with XY chromosomes has female genitalia and maybe even a functional female reproductive system.

If trans people are telling you that biological sex is not male and female, that is what they mean.

Feddyteddy ,

I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this. It is refreshing to get answers when I ask about this stuff instead of just slurs and attacks.

Is it definitionally correct to say that male and female are two of the biological sexes, but there are more? Or is it not even the case that male and female are biological sexes at all? If not, then what is the proper term for xx and xy people?

Do you know what the reason is for the down votes I am getting for the question i asked you? Obviously I don't care about the score or whatever, I just want to know what it is about my question that is offensive.

verdigris ,

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_sex-determination_system

This is a good article to read.

Feddyteddy ,

Awesome, thanks so much!

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

"Male" and "female" were terms we came up with long before we understood things like genetics. They come fourteenth century and they have been with us ever since. Maybe we shouldn't use those terms anymore, but it's not something that's easy to change.

Feddyteddy ,

Wow! I had no idea that the terms male/female were not around until the 14th century. That's fascinating! Thanks so much!

UnpluggedFridge ,

You are getting downvotes because Tucker Carlson has weaponized the "I'm just asking questions" excuse to justify terrible takes on established science. People are finding you guilty by association. It is very hard to distinguish between actual curiosity and trolling, especially when bigots are constantly honing their messaging to appeal to wider audiences. Some people will get caught in the crossfire of our culture wars.

lady_maria ,
@lady_maria@lemmy.world avatar

It isn't binary or nearly as easily defined as transphobes claim; there's more to it than just chromosomes and genitalia.

Altofaltception ,

Friendly reminder that Scotland's freedom of speech laws are different from those in the US.

Reverendender ,
@Reverendender@sh.itjust.works avatar

I forsee her not being arrested

BertramDitore ,
@BertramDitore@lemmy.world avatar

OR, and hear me out, you could just not be a total asshole? Maybe have a baseline of tolerance and respect for the people who made you a billionaire? No? Then fuck right off and accept the consequences of your hatred.

dojan ,
@dojan@lemmy.world avatar

It seems billionaires have really wacked out midlife crises. Instead of buying expensive cars and cheating on their partners, they come out as terfy nazis, build hate platforms, and crash companies. I mean to be fair, at this point the sample size is only two, JKKK Rowling and Musk, but it's still surprising that it'd happen twice.

otp ,

Bill Gates started a charity.

Steve Jobs killed himself because he thought he knew better than his doctors. Well, that's wacked out too, but at least it's not being a Nazi...

TropicalDingdong ,

These guys need to get on John McAfee's level

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McAfee

Sabata11792 ,
@Sabata11792@kbin.social avatar

John McCracked

ObviouslyNotBanana ,
@ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

McAfee is not worth cracking

FuglyDuck ,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

Bill gates didn’t start the charged as a midlife crisis.

It’s a tax dodge and a lot of other ways of protecting his money while also doing a little reputation washing/ morality banking

otp ,

Wasn't he 45 when he started the charity? That sounds like a perfect candidate to be a midlife crisis, haha

FuglyDuck ,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

Just because it was midlife doesn’t mean it’s a crisis.

He started the charity as a shelter for his obscene wealth. That is all.

homesweethomeMrL ,

It’s not a crime to be an insufferable piece of shit. Usually. If they make an exception for her, okay then.

Worx ,

No, but it seems like "stirring up hate" is a crime. And, as a public figure who is publicly hateful, she potentially fits that description

PhlubbaDubba ,

Yep, there really needs to be the distinction between private remarks and public instigation in free speech law.

Otherwise you're not protecting anything except the right of the loudest to monopolize the airwaves via intimidation of dissent and "the other"

It's not freedom of speech unless everyone feels safe using it, be it from fear of retaliation by the state, or by the tyranny of cousins.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It truly makes me think most "martyrs" in history must have been insufferable pieces of shit, as well.

Because it's only these people who want to make a "martyr" of themselves, endlessly playing the fucking victim while having enough money to make Solomon blush.

ShadowRam ,

I look forward to the pending arrest video, where she is suddenly all apologetic and saying sorry, and not understanding why they won't let her go because she just said sorry to them.

lemmylommy ,

I’m sorry, I thought this was America.

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