what is the actual meaning of "would" and "could"?

hii,

I am learning English for around 5 years and I still can't comprehend the meaning of "would" and "count" in some context. are they just past form of "will" and "can"?

"would you like coffee" means a person is asking if you liked coffee in past?
"I would do it" means I did it in past?

I really don't understand since my language doesn't have anything like those words.

Edit: Thank you for answering my naive question :)

titus_w_blotter ,

"Would" is a very confusing word in English. It can mean opposite things, but native English speakers don't usually notice how confusing it is.

"Would you?" can be a polite way of asking asking a question. "Would you like some coffee?" is basically the same as "Do you want some coffee?" but a little gentler. It implies more permission to say no.

You say yes to a "would you" question by saying "I would," or, "yes, I would."

EXCEPT

"I would" can also be a polite way of saying no. It means that the answer would be yes under some different circumstance. Someone might say "I would have some coffee, but I'm avoiding caffeine." This is like saying, "Under a different circumstance I'd gladly accept your offer."

So if I ask "would you like some coffee?" and you say "I would." That means yes. If you say "I would, but I just had some." That means no.

Many English learners find this extremely confusing, for good reason.

oxjox ,
@oxjox@lemmy.ml avatar

You're not helping to describe the use of "would" by adding extra words to negate the intent. "I would, but I won't" is two statements. You've instead described the use of the word "but".

JasonDJ , (edited )

Consider the difference between "would do" and "could do" to be the same as "will do" and "can do", respectively.

One implies action, the other implies capability.

There's also "should", which implies permission.

Consider, also, the progress of learning Python (programming language):

  1. Could I do this in Python?
  2. I would do this in Python.
  3. I shouldn't do this in Python.

Edit to add: Would, could, and should are usually considered future-tense. But add "have" and it's past-tense..."I would have done that"

Aussiemandeus ,
@Aussiemandeus@lemmy.world avatar

Haha there's some shade

Mango ,

If you won't, then you can't because mental barrier, but if you can't maybe you would if you could.

LordCrom ,

I see the difference as
Would is indicative of intent. E.g. would you drink coffee
Could us indicative of ability. E.g. could you drink coffee

And this we get the best ending lyric from Alice in Chains..."if I would, could you ?"

stoly ,

They don’t have their own meaning. They modify the tense and mood of the sentence. In many languages, this is built into the verb but English doesn’t have that power. As a result, you have to use external modifiers.

Signtist ,
@Signtist@lemm.ee avatar

I didn't really see people mentioning that "would" can still be used past-tense outside of "would have," though it's not in the same way - you use it when talking about something that happened multiple times in the past. For example, "When I was a kid my friends and I would go to the pool every Saturday," which means that, as children, my friends and I did visit the pool every Saturday.

OhmsLawn , (edited )

I'm not a linguist, but here's how I understand it:

This is why would is so fucked: it's used both in the conditional, and the subjunctive mood. However, nothing I see in the online resources really talks about would being used in the subjunctive.

When someone uses the phrase "would you like a coffee?" I'm nearly certain that it's the subjunctive, polite way of saying "do you want coffee." It's very similar to the Spanish quieres/quisieras pair. In Spanish you get an irregular conjugation, but in English, the whole verb changes from to be to will.

As a non-linguist, native speaker, these mood changes come naturally to me. I never had to study them. As a second language learner, this is always one of the most brain-melting facets of a new language.

Edit: "do you" obviously isn't exactly using the verb to be. I'm not sure what to call that expression. It seems like it could be its own post. This is giving me a headache. This post gets into it, but doesn't really give the specific answers that I suspect you're looking for.

kabe ,
@kabe@lemmy.world avatar

Lol you're right about this giving native English speakers a headache. I'm not sure the subjunctive is the correct explanation here, though.

The subjunctive mood in English primarily uses the past tense form of verbs ("were," "were to," etc.) to convey wishes or counterfactuality. E.g. 'I wish you wouldn't drink so much coffee', or 'If I were you, I wouldn't..."

However, 'would you like a coffee?' is a direct question of preference, which means it technically is using the indicative mood rather than the subjunctive. Here, 'would' functions as a model verb to soften the request and make it more polite.

oxjox , (edited )
@oxjox@lemmy.ml avatar

Would: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/would
• a simple past tense and past participle of will
• used to express an intention or inclination
• used to express an uncertainty
• used in conditional sentences to express choice or possibility

Could: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/could
• a simple past tense of can
• used to express possibility
• used to express conditional possibility or ability
• used in asking for permission

Would / will is used when something is possible but you're not sure.
Could / can is used when you're not sure if something is possible. --

almar_quigley ,

This is the right answer

Palerider ,
@Palerider@feddit.uk avatar

I would love to help you, but I couldn't possibly do that.

😋

kionite231 OP ,

I would love it if you could have helped me.

Did I get it right? :D

herescunty ,

You would have got it perfect if you had said “I would have loved it if you could have helped me”, but you could say that you got it right.

Today ,

American - i would have said you would have gotten it perfect if you had said...

Brits prefer got?

herescunty ,

No, I think gotten is better there, my sloppiness

morphballganon ,

I think the ideal phrasing is slightly different than the other poster. I would instead say "I would love it if you could help me" as that leaves open the possibility of present/future help. Saying "could have helped" presumes that it cannot be done anymore.

voracitude ,

As a native English speaker, these questions make me wish we all spoke Latin 😂

GreyEyedGhost ,

Then, instead of two problems, we have seven more specific problems.

otp ,

Regarding your question about being the past tense, they are also used that way. But you also need to make other changes.

Would you like coffee?

This is not about the past. As others have said, this is an offer of coffee. The response is

Yes I would. / No I wouldn't.

(Or any other acceptance of an offer)

Would you have liked coffee?

This is about the past. It means something like..."Before, is it possible that you wanted coffee?"

It's a little tough to explain. But a person might ask that question if invited a friend to a café, got there before the friend, and ordered two teas...then the friend looked disappointed about having a tea. "Sorry, do you not like tea? Would you have liked coffee instead?"

The answer here is

Yes I would've. / No I wouldn't have.

It's a similar situation for "could".

Could you take out the trash?

This is a request. As others have said, "would" could also be used as a request here, but it's not very common (at least like this).

Literally, I think it's a question of capability. I think "could" means "is it possible for X to happen"...but we use it to be a request because of politeness. English speakers don't think about it this way when making a request, but it will help understand what it means in the past.

Could you have taken out the trash?

This is a question about a past capability. It means something like..."Before, was it possible that you were able to take out the trash?"

You'd ask this if your kid didn't take out the trash and you want to know if it was possible (with the implication being that you want to know WHY).

The kid would answer

Yes, I could've, but ...

Or

No, I couldn't have, because ...

Or

Not now mom/dad, I'm playing a game

As you can see, using would/could in the past is possible, but complicated. "Should" is also usable in the past.

Should I wear a hat?

... Is a question about whether you need a hat (maybe before going outside for a walk).

Should I have worn a hat?

...is a question about whether you needed to wear a hat before. Maybe you didn't wear a hat and got a sunburn on your scalp. Ouch! Yes, you should've worn a hat.

skeezix ,

Will do: it is certain he do it in future.

Would do: it is certain he decide to do now or in future it if he has ability to do and/or knows about it and/or nothing else stop him.

Would have done: it is certain he decide to do in past if he had ability to do and/or knew about it and/or nothing else stop him.

Can do: he have ability to do now or in future.

Could do: he have ability to do now or in future if he decide to do and/or no external condition that stops it being done.

Could have done: he had the ability, he didn't do in past (maybe there are reasons).

would = intent to do if there is ability.
could = ability to do if there is intent.

  • intent: the desire to do and/or the knowledge that it needs to be done and/or no external condition that stops it being done.

"would you like coffee" = If I give to you ability to drink coffee right now, what is your answer, Yes or No?

"I would do it" = If nothing stops me and I have the ability to do, then I do it. This is said with knowledge that some condition must be met before you can do it:
"I would drink that coffee if you give it to me."
It is letting the listener know that you intend to do action, but it first requires some other thing to happen which gives you ability.

glimse ,

This is a great write up BUT there are other mistakes you should fix since you're helping someone learn. "He have" instead of "he has," etc.

fishos ,
@fishos@lemmy.world avatar

WTF NO! You suggested that bullshit? I wondered why everything was so goddamn clunky.

"HE HAS", NOT "HE HAVE". And should be the ability.

The way it's written now sounds EXACTLY like someone who's first language ISNT English trying to teach someone else English. It's butchered terribly.

glimse ,

No, they wrote "have" which I am saying is one of the issues with their comment

fishos ,
@fishos@lemmy.world avatar

"He have" instead of "he has," etc.

Then you meant to write "'He has' instead of 'he have'". You wrote it backwards. Thanks for the downvote for YOUR mistake.

tyler ,

They didn’t write a mistake. They’re correcting the original comment and their correction is worded correctly.

morphballganon ,

The corrector was ambiguous about which version was the original and which version was the correction, as there are some [assumed words] that were left out and could be either "you said" or "it should be." My initial reaction was the same as the heavily downvoted person above, because my brain filled in "it should be" as the assumed words, where most people seemingly filled in "you said."

glimse ,

I probably should have worded it differently to be more clear but I was pointing out the mistakes so my grammar was correct.

But speaking of mistakes, it looks like you just made your second one by implying I downvoted you!

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/4451d97e-ce9b-4c7f-82d0-5d1d5902131e.png

Evkob ,
@Evkob@lemmy.ca avatar

I'm getting quite the laugh at someone getting this angry over their own lack of reading comprehension.

I originally parsed their comment the same way you did, but I would have either asked for clarification or politely corrected them. Please be more respectful of others, there's really no need to be so agressive.

intensely_human ,

Aha, but there is also no reason to be so sensitive 🤔

thelasttoot ,

Will do can also mean enough. Like,

intensely_human ,

… ?

thelasttoot ,

The more I thought about what I was trying to say the less it made sense so I intended to delete it but I guess I submitted the unfinished post instead

intensely_human ,

lol

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Would is more definitive than could in most cases.

"That sounds like something Jim would do."

"I don't think Kevin would ever do that."

But when phrased as a question, "Would you like coffee?" it's asking your preference, again, a definitive yes/no.

Could is less about definitive fact, and more about possibilities.

"Yes, I could see Jim doing that."

Did he do it? Did he not do it? Unknown, but the possibility is there.

"No, I don't think Kevin could do that."

Is it POSSIBLE Kevin did something? It's possible, but the speaker finds it unlikely.

TheBananaKing ,

Could is maybe-can: I bet I could jump over that car [if I wanted to].

As opposed to I bet I can jump over that car [and I'm going to try].

Would is maybe-will: If you saw an alligator, would you run away?

Would is also 'did', for habitual actions. When I was young, I would wait by the window for my father to come home.

A_A ,
@A_A@lemmy.world avatar

Great answer, straight to the point, easy to understand for non-native English speaker
... and you also add this last part that I didn't know.

Quacksalber ,

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/0fde3fe2-8deb-4747-9b14-6ef5f60db2f0.jpeg

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