Pretty sure you're being sarcastic, but just to be safe:
America massively subsidizes too... the difference between China and America is when China subsidizes an industry, prices for the good go down, and their market share expands. When America subsidizes an industry, prices go up and board members get richer.
The American business owners are salty that China is beating them at capitalism. And Biden has a strong track record of oppressing the people and standing up for the tyrants.
While I agree that worker wages and safety protections are shit in China, one thing nobody mentions when they compare wages is the fact that Chinese people are given free healthcare and affordable housing.
93 percent of Chinese citizens own their house. They also have a low retirement age. So there are some things that kind of make up for the shit wages and toxic workplace in China.
I still think its pretty terrible to be lower class over there, but I don't think its really any more terrible than it is to be lower class in America, honestly.
BYD assembly line workers make $40k US on average, where are you getting your numbers? And $40k in China is literally like having over $100k in the US in terms of buying power.
You can buy and have delivered fresh made food for $3 US. You can rent a studio in a large city for $250/mo including Internet (250mbps) and utilities. How do I know? My wife lives and works in China, in a 20m person city center, and pays exactly that.
Min wage varies across provinces, but on average it’s about ¥30/hr, or about $4.15/hr. So no, electric car workers aren’t making $3/hr. They’re making more than my wife, and she’s making more than that. She also has guaranteed sick time built in on a federal level, triple overtime for working on holidays(which they have more of than we do), and they just passed a law mandating workers democracy in all public and private companies that will be implemented soon. I hate when people talk out their ass about things they have no idea about.
Tomato, tomato. The free market is a myth, there is no part of the economy that goes without manipulation. Anytime business owners can’t directly manipulate the market themselves they bribe governments to do it on their behalf.
If hes going to do that he should light a fire under the domestics asses to get our own evs up to snuff. And market competitive. None of that whining how it cannot be done either
Why would the main benefactors and purchasers of this policy position (the Big 3) greenlight their destruction? This is US capitalist policy at play. They can't compete internationally and had to purchase their domestic protection.
Well the secret here is that the Big 3 don't physically control that policy. They can only bribe politicians and hope they stay bribed. And sometimes a protectionist policy looks like the bribe is working but it's just a prelude to a different planned move. Like trust busting.
so u cant because the "executive class" (capitalist they are called capitalist) control everything, u theoretically COULD if u had a revolution but u CANT.
That's not how you ensure America leads the world in them. That's how you ensure corps feel safe not doing shit to innovate anymore. This is just another form of a bailout.
Doesn't China subsidize what they export on top of having cheap labor? In that case a free market argument cannot really be made.
The innovation in the US or elsewhere would have to be extreme shifts to compete.
Idea of free market is that it's better than a manage market. If there's room for innovation, the free market will find it. Central planning leads to being risk adverse and exploiting inefficiencies to soak up government money. So if free market is your religion, you shouldn't be bothered that China tries to plan their production instead. Cheap labour also doesn't hold since the USA has historically been happy to have their companies contract labour from cheaper countries. So if you're losing due to Chinese salaries, just hire Chinese people.
Also, China doesn't subsidise any of these exports. Then they'd lose money, and they're exporting to earn money. They subsidise R&D and domestic sales of things that'll make domestic companies more productive and competitive.
Steel I get. That's an environmental issue since US creation is way more carbon friendly. However the rest makes no sense without an announcement in domestic investment that is pulled from currently used non-environmental budgets.
Pretty sure the steel tariff is a bad thing too. There are certain grades of steel that just aren't produced in the US. People threw a fit over it when trump did the same thing.
Here's some highlights from the sources I put in the original comment since you can't be asked to open them...
Clay, New York: Funding will support the construction of the first two fabs of a planned four fab “megafab” focused on leading-edge DRAM chip production. Each fab will have 600,000 square feet of cleanrooms, totaling 2.4 million square feet of cleanroom space across the four facilities—the largest amount of cleanroom space ever announced in the United States and the size of nearly 40 football fields.
Boise, Idaho: Funding will support the development of a high-volume manufacturing (HVM) fab, with approximately 600,000 square feet of cleanroom space focused on the production of leading-edge DRAM chips. The fab would be co-located with the company’s existing, leading-edge R&D facility to improve efficiency across its R&D and manufacturing operations, reducing lags in technology transfer and cutting time-to-market for leading-edge memory products.
at least $40 million in dedicated CHIPS funding for training and workforce development to ensure local communities have access to the jobs of the future.
the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) through its Loan Programs Office (LPO) today announced the closing of a $362 million loan to CelLink Corporation (CelLink) to help finance the construction of a domestic manufacturing facility that will produce components essential to electric vehicle (EV) assembly. Located in Georgetown, Texas, the facility will develop lighter and more efficient flexible circuit wiring harnesses—sets of wires and related equipment that relay information and carry electricity throughout vehicles. Once fully operational, the facility is expected to produce enough wiring harnesses to support the manufacture of approximately 2.7 million EVs per year and create 165 construction jobs and more than 1,200 permanent jobs.
The official source for the solar for all does have a broken link which is supposed to direct you here where it explain each of the 60 grants that were issued.
But my point is that none of this is being done efficiently. Instead, middlemen siphon money from the project to pad their pockets and stretch out the timelines for completion. I won't be surprised if some of these projects go over budget, over time, or need additional funding.
Wake me up when these projects complete. Then we can look at how much they really cost and how long it really took and how much they really produce.
The money does not go directly to production, that's the goal post. It goes through a dozen people's hands before the ground is ever broken on one of these projects, and every one of those hands takes their cut to pad their pockets. That was my point.
Wait we gave the Auto industry money for EVs and 50k SUVs were the result? Holy shit, that's right up there with giving 4 billion to the telecoms for no actual network expansion.
Cheap panels are tanking European competitors, but it's probably too late to intervene at this point. Can't compete with work camps and cheap slave labor.
you seriously think the ONLY possible explanation for cheap solar panels is "cheap slave labor?"
not the fact that the chinese government has heavily subsidized these industries? your only explanation is work camps? where are the pictures of these work camps, the stories from all of those people who came to the US from China, they must have something to say about all of the slavery and work camps!
get fucking real and stop living in lib fantasyland
Correct... using work camps and cheap slave labour was only acceptable when US companies shipped production to China and pocketed the profits... now that China is doing it directly, it's certainly a problem we all care about
Yeah, except everyone has had it beaten into them - nobody fucks with gas prices.
Every news outlet in the country runs the same news segment practically daily - "Let's complain about gas prices". We've somehow made it the subject of basically nonstop discussion.
I mean, there is a case for discussing gas prices since it's the price of mobile energy for everything from tractors to trucking to electricity. The gas price, specifically crude oil price, used to be synonymous with energy prices so any increase in oil price would mean a major hit to cost-of-living increases.
It does sadly. On the flip side, China seems to be trying to capture car manufacturing markets by subsidizing their producers. This would probably be a bad thing in the future if allowed. Hopefully the US government does more work on making it easier to purchase electric cars in the US(specifically the price) while also reducing the need for driving.
Why can’t they just certify cars based on safety and ban unsafe ones instead of blanket ban the entire segment of them. It certainly helps the adoption of EV among masses.
I'm sorry but this argument doesn't make sense. Don't you have safety rules in the US? If the Chinese cars aren't safe to drive nobody should be authorized to drive them in the first place. If they are safe, no need for tariffs then.
This decision has absolutely nothing to do with alleged poor manufacturing quality. It's protectionism, pure and simple.
It sounds you’re still stuck in the 1990s. Where do our iPhones and other smartphones and our laptops come from? Where do many of the parts in our cars come from? What country has more high speed rail than every other combined? What country has its own space station?
I’m not precisely sure where I stand on this, but I understand the primary policy arguments for this decision would be something like this:
The problem comes later, when a specific actor has an outsized market share and then exploits their trade advantage for other concessions.
It also prohibits domestic competition for those products, especially in countries with high standards of living and wages. This negates competition and innovation, since most corporations don’t have the ability to compete with an entity with the capacity to eat cost like the Chinese government.
The point of trade decisions, is to import products you don't have enough domestic production to cover the demand for.
We know that the US auto and oil industries have no sincere desire to build EVs anyway (or any green industry whatsoever), because they did their best to kill their domestic production of EVs in the 90s, and there's no US industry for solar panels.
This is all just part of the US's trade war with China, that is prioritizing the profits of its auto and oil industries over the wellbeing of the environment, and the desires of its citizens for electric vehicles.
I can’t say I disagree with anything you’ve said. It really is silly, given the US auto manufacturer industry’s continuous fuck ups, and pulling out of EVs. But hopefully this makes risk taking more likely in other countries’ car industries to move into the US market. Tesla seemed close to really catching on, but then again EVs have always been seen as “elite” here.
But I suppose the question is whether there is that much demand for EVs? This could protect what demand there is, to at least make an even playing field for US or US ally made EVs.
Speaking to your first point: users of Lemmy aside, I don’t think there’s that much demand for pure electric vehicle yet across the US. We so routinely travel such long distances here, and charging infrastructure just isn’t quite there outside of urban corridors to facilitate the easy usage of fully electric vehicles.
So hopefully this can protect domestic or other countries’ industries until the idiots that comprise the US consumer market catch up to global realities.
The US Government doesn't want US automakers to lose market share so that they have plenty of manufacturing capacity that could be retooled to make weapons in case of war.
Also no US auto-manufacturer is going all in on EVs, they're all mostly building gas-guzzling oversized trucks and SUVs. US automakers intentionally killed EVs in the 90s, and hoped no other country would start building them.
Also no US auto-manufacturer is going all in on EVs
Tesla? Rivian? Lucid? Faraday? Fisker?
To be clear, yes, of course I understand that those are all luxury brands, but that doesn't make your statement any less false.
No, the major auto manufacturers aren't going all-in on EVs, but that are all getting deeper every year. There's no reason to expect that progress to slow down, as they're all quite entrenched in the technology at this point.
To be clear, yes, of course I understand that those are all luxury brands, but that doesn’t make your statement any less false.
I mean, of course the explicitly EV-making startups are going to be all-in on EVs. The distinguishing feature that makes them not count compared to [established] US auto manufacturers isn't that their stuff is luxury, it's that they didn't exist before and have no previous internal-combustion product line to pivot away from.
Most east Asian countries are fairly low down on the list. They have excellent public transport, the world's best high-speed rail networks, and a significant number of road vehicles are already electric.
EVs are expected to reach 45% marketshare in 2024 in CN. Also I guess you haven't seen their high speed rail network expand over the last decade (pressuring their car market in general). Then you have a lot of capita. So yes the numbers make sense.
I'd rather we ensure higher standards of safety and quality for our vehicles, which are already terrifying death machines, but the hit to solar is a real step backwards.
Technically yes. However, most of the time, they just outsource manufacturing. Research and developement is still usually done in house. Apple for example, wrote the software and designed the hardware for the iPhone but assembles it in China because of cost.
I mean, of course there’s loaded language in all this. Are you also surprised at the language and rhetoric used by Chinese government and media sources when they talk about the US?
The real question is, what percentage of the product that they export is purchased by Americans? Because if that percentage is really low, it turns this into performance politics. Especially the one-upping of Trump's economic war on China. The problem there of course being that it won't make any difference; Biden's never going to win over a Republican. What he needs to do is lean into the left harder so that he ensures a higher turnout. But he's not going to, he'd rather stay his old-ass course, and risk plunging our country into a tyrannical totalitarian nightmare. I mean a worse one than it already is. You should be worried more about inflation, women's rights, and not feeding weapons to Israel. But our country has an insane "Christian" hard-on for Israel so that's not going to happen.
And by inflation I'm referring to everyday household products and food, not the stock market. People don't care how good the stock market is doing when not only do they not have a direct stake in it, but even basics like food cost too goddamn much.
