Texas school district agrees to remove ‘Anne Frank’s Diary,’ ‘Maus’ and 670 other books after right-wing group’s complaint ( forward.com )

Conservative activists, led by a local pastor and outspoken Israel advocate, pushed the district, Mission CISD, to excise books mostly about gender, sexuality and race. Their demands represented an extreme version of a nationwide culture war over books that has played out in recent years — and ensnared a number of books with Jewish themes.

In Mission, the long list of books on the chopping block includes a recent illustrated adaptation of Anne Frank’s diary; both volumes of Art Spiegelman’s Holocaust graphic memoir “Maus”; “The Fixer,” Bernard Malamud’s novel about a historical instance of antisemitic blood libel; and “Kasher in the Rye,” a ribald memoir by Jewish comedian Moshe Kasher.

fine_sandy_bottom , (edited )

I just can't understand how someone could think that banking books is a good idea.

edit: sorry banning not banking

CableMonster ,

So you think that all books should be available to all kids in public schools?

cows_are_underrated ,

It isn't about them being available. Its about discussing the content and the deeper meaning. I would be totally fine with reading Adolf Hitlers - Mein Kampf in School, as long as the content gets discussed and why what he wrote wasn't good.

CableMonster ,

Nothing is going to be discusses it would just be sitting on the shelf and available. So I think we should all agree that censorship of books in public schools makes sense. I personally am fine with siding on the side of being more cautious and having kids less able to get books people think are not acceptable, and catching books that probably should be available in schools.

ThePyroPython ,

You do realise that there's a version of Mien Kampf that's four times as long because there's several experts annotating and debunking Hitler's ideas right there on the page.

CableMonster ,

Thats fine, what would be so bad if a signficant part of the population dont think its appropriate so its not provided to kids at a public school?

todd_bonzalez ,

What would be so bad with...

...checks notes...

...informing young people about the most horrible decisions made throughout history, why they were flawed, and how not to repeat the same mistakes today?

Hmm....

Just take a look at the world around you. That's a fucking start...

CableMonster ,

That is not what is happening...

PapaStevesy ,

No, history never repeats itself! Just like that old expression says, "Those who forget history are doomed to a life of happiness and prosperity."

CableMonster ,

I agree, but that is not what these book removals are about

ThePyroPython ,

History is uncomfortable. Revising it to tell lovely stories is all well and good for building a national identity.

However, sugar-coating, ignoring, or even flat-out erasing parts of history benefits no one. People started writing events down accurately because the orators of old never intended paint an accurate picture of the past. And therefore lessons learnt from the failures of humanity (lost causes, preventable catastrophies, perspectives of people on the wrong side, genocides, etc.) were also lost.

History should be uncomfortable, so we can collectively learn and have a chance to do better the next time.

CableMonster ,

You are believing the propaganda not what the real critique is.

ThePyroPython ,

I literally said the opposite. How did you come to that conclusion?

CableMonster ,

You didnt say the opposite, you repeated the propaganda that is an attack on people that want to censor books. The books that are getting censored are not due to them being about history or learning.

ThePyroPython ,

the propaganda that is an attack on people that want to sensor books.

How is this propaganda?

Also you are completely incorrect. Those books are ABSOLUTELY are about history and learning.

Anne Frank's Dairy is a first hand historical account of life an oppressed and genocided group under facism. Maus is another recollection of first-hand historical accounts of a polish Jew being interviewed by his son but shown visually in a cartoon graphic novel to make the context more visually palatable for a younger audience without avoiding the horrific events of history.

What next? Are you going to claim the Horrible History books are neither educational or historical as well?

CableMonster ,

Its propaganda because you are literally believeing something false, you comment proves that it works. They are not removing the book we all read in school "The Diary of Anne Frank" they are remvoing "Anne Franks Diary" because "they objected to the book as it contained a 'graphic scene' in which Anne Frank asks a friend to expose themselves to each other."

The part about them wanting to remove lessons of history is just bullshit, they are wanting to remove typically things with sexual content in them. Why are you fighting for books that have sexual content in them so kids can read them?

ThePyroPython ,

From the article, talking about the complaints citing the Moms for Liberty rating system:

“Anne Frank’s Diary” and “Maus” both rate a “2” on BookLooks, with the site’s objections to the latter described as “hate involving antisemitism and racism; violence; nonsexual nudity; and mild/infrequent profanity.”

Would you look at that: non-sexual nudity, oh the shock and horror, children might learn that underneath clothes people are naked 😱

As shown by the complaint quoted in the article they're removing these books because they discuss historical horrors, violence, and hate, therefore your argument holds no water at all.

CableMonster ,

I looked at the page, its about sexualizing whom I assume is Anne Frank. Why are you okay with one minor asking another minor to expose themselves to one another?

Do you undestand yet that the book was not banned due to anything but sexual content?

solidsmoke ,

Don't clutch your pearls too hard.

CableMonster ,

If "clutch your pearls too hard" means hating it when sexual things get shown to minors, then I will clutch those pearls till they shatter. Why are you okay with sexual material being shown to children?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

A significant part of the population doesn't think it's appropriate for a picture book about two male penguins that adopt a chick to be in a public school.

In fact, a significant part of the population doesn't think white kids and black kids should go to the same school. And have found ways to do things about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segregation_academy

Why should we cater to these significant parts of the population?

VARXBLE ,

You're a fucking troglodyte.

Melvin_Ferd , (edited )

Censoring books due to reasons like "these books provide a point of view I'm not comfortable exposing my kids too" is usually a bad reason to censor books.

Problem I see is its all a pendulum on these issues where the reaction swings wildly back and forth the more energy were putting into it rather than having it settle the fuck down.

For instance these books being removed aren't produced in spite of this issue. But for sure if we dig into censorship topic then pro censorship groups start bringing out books to be edgy cunts and prove a point.

Every issue has edge cases and we live in a time where people are so willing to be right they will make every edge case the center of an issue. Like in order to keep Maus on shelves we will now need to have a copy of Bomb making 101 or a book were one of these people wrote FUCK a million times just so they can get anti censorship people to say "hey that isn't cool guys" but also the problem is I often find people are so militant in our beliefs that we have a hard time saying "that isn't cool" when faced with something not cool but also that grinds against our moral beliefs

CableMonster ,

What you are saying makes sense, I just dont see an issue if XX% of people dont want a book to be in PUBLIC schools, then I am okay with restricting it unless there is some kind of cultural significance, and within reason. I am probably okay with Maus from what I have heard, but I dont see it as an issue to take it off the shelf if people feel strongly and there is some level of logic.

Honytawk ,

If kids are only exposed to kid friendly stuff, then they will never learn anything and stay kids long into adulthood.

CableMonster ,

I guess so, but if kids are exposed to adult things their mind is not ready for it will harm them.

drunkpostdisaster ,

They already deal with the fact that someone can just go in and shoot them the middle the middle of class. Those books are nothing compared to that

CableMonster ,

Two different discussions.

Croquette ,

Not really. Kids have active shooter drills, but you get your panties in a bunch because they might read Anne Frank?

You don't really care about kids, you are just an hypocrite.

CableMonster ,

Prove they are trying to remove Anne Frank from the libraries, it might be true, but I think that sounds like propaganda.

And yes they are two different things. The big problem here is that people like you dont realize how to stop school shootings, and even if you did, you are unwilling to take the actual steps to do so.

nomous ,

Prove they are trying to remove Anne Frank from libraries.

Do you even read the titles before you come here saying dumb shit?

It might be true, but I think that sounds like propaganda.

Yeah obviously you have problems distinguishing truth from propaganda, we're all aware.

CableMonster ,

Maybe you should read beyond the titles... A quick google tells me they are not removing anne frank, they are removing a book with anne frank in it because "it contained a 'graphic scene' in which Anne Frank asks a friend to expose themselves to each other." If accurate, why do you want books about minors exposing themselves to one another to be available to minors?

nomous ,

includes a recent illustrated adaptation of Anne Frank’s diary; both volumes of Art Spiegelman’s Holocaust graphic memoir “Maus”; “The Fixer,” Bernard Malamud’s novel about a historical instance of antisemitic blood libel

No it seems to be the Diary of Anne Frank and 600+ other books.

why do you want books about minors exposing themselves to one another to be available to minors?

Have you read the book because that definitely "sounds like propaganda" and we've already established you have problems discerning the difference between that and reality.

But hey, why do YOU mindlessly parrot talking points put out by far right Latino zionists like
Luis Cabrera? Jk we all know the answer, dumb little tankie parroting a fucking evangelical, fuck off.

https://www.au.org/the-latest/articles/texas-pastor-book-bans24

CableMonster ,

No, the Diary of Anne Frank is not the same as Anne Franks Diary. I have read the one that they dont object to, it was a good book.

Why do YOU mindlessly parrot talking points put out by far left?

ClamDrinker , (edited )

On the odd chance you aren't completely trolling.
Anne Frank was a girl going through puberty. She had a crush on her friend and like any normal young person had to deal with scary, unknown, but very normal human feelings and desires of intimacy and love.
It's her own fucking diary, she didn't self censor herself for prudes in 2024. She had a war and death hanging over her head at any moment.

And if you actually go look at the book, there is nothing graphic about it. To these prudes having these normal feelings and describing them in a diary is what they consider to be graphic.
Here's a Dutch talkshow host absolutely clowning on these people just by showing the passage the controversy is actually about (with English subtitles)

SLVRDRGN ,

"Anne Frank's Diary, too sexual? That sounds like 'Tucker Carlson, too athletic'"
I lol'd.

CableMonster ,

You can not agree with it, but do you understand how they are objecting to sexual material in the book not that it has to due with history?

ClamDrinker ,

There is no such sexual material in the book. An innocent teenage girl asked a raunchy question to a friend she had a crush on because that's the kind of behavior teens display while they grow up and develop themselves. And she got shut down. Nothing graphical was ever shown. It's showing only what was written by that same normal girl disconnected and hidden from the world as they hide from murderous tyrannical nazi's. Raw and unfiltered thoughts and feelings of a normal developing teen, as the girl wrote it for herself, not us. As the Anne Frank Foundation said in the video "A book written by a 12 year old can be read by 12 year olds."

CableMonster ,

Great, we can agree to disagree, and I support both sides of the issue with having their voices heard. Why not remove that book when a half to a third of parents dont think it should be in public school?

ThePyroPython ,

Literally the article.

CableMonster ,

Literally misleading.

Croquette ,

The article states first that a Texas district banned Anne Frank's diary. Don't play dumb.

Every fucking other countries don't have mass shootings pretty much everyday. Only in the US. In Australia, when they banned gun ownership after a mass shooting in 1996, the shootings dropped drastically.

The school shootings are a multi-faceted problem which requires many changes, one of which is the gun culture.

There is a toddler every two weeks that shoot someone in the USA, how are guns not the problem?

You know where this doesn't happen? Everywhere else in the world.

Ban guns for pretty much anything that is not hunting. Fund social services to provide quality mental health treatments to anyone that needs it. That should get you started in the right direction.

CableMonster ,

Yes exactly, they want to band "Anne Franks diary", which is a distinct book that is not "The Diary of Anne Frank". Do you understand how they used propaganda and it works?

Croquette ,

I'm not sure why you keep referring to that dumb argument. There is two distinct book, I know that, but the second book is called the secret annex and is rewritten and more tame.

Otherwise, diary of a young girl is referred to as Anne Frank's diary and all the other similar name. So shut the fuck up with your propaganda.

Neither book should be banned and for a right winger, you seem to be more about big government than personal responsibility that your ilk like to spout.

There is nothing offensive in the book and parents can decide for their child without being a bunch of christo-fascists cunts trying to ban anything they don't like.

Walk the talk for once in your life and stop being an hypocrite. If you don't mind toddlers shooting people and the mass shootings but you get your feelings hurt by a young girl describing what she is going through at puberty, there is no mental gymnastics that can justify that.

So go live in the wood with all your troglodytes so that you can live your christo-fascist life like you want. You can bring your bible with you, we don't need it.

CableMonster ,

What year do you think the rewrite of the anne frank book was took place?

Croquette ,

It doesn't matter. You are trying to steer the conversation away from the subject.

CableMonster ,

The point is that you were wrong again, and still dont know what is going on. The book that they want banned was written in like 2018, its a graphic novel, not the one we all read as kids. You need to actually do some research instead of being aggressively ignorant.

Croquette ,

I don't know how you can eat your cereals without choking with that mental prowess.

What do you think the book is adapting? The original Anne Frank's diary. This is the same fucking story but with pictures. This is not the gotcha you think it is.

I won't respond anymore because you are clearly just being a dumbass to make your argument look credible.

CableMonster ,

They added sexual content... That is literally the whole point. Bye

drunkpostdisaster ,

Do you realize how many books are in a literary? The odds they will chance on one particular book are really small. And ig they do it's far from the worst thing that can happen to them in a school

Snowclone ,

All books ever!!! The Necromomicon! Solomon's Demonology! THE ANARCHIST'S NOTEBOOK!! PEPPA PIG GOES TO HELL!! !

aodhsishaj ,

No gods, no masters, no borders, no censors.

Xanis , (edited )

Which books do you believe shouldn't be provided in a classroom setting?

No copouts. I don't think anyone expects a bunch of 3rd graders to have a discussion on 50 Shades of Grey.

CableMonster ,

I think the opinion as to what shouldnt be in public schools is reasonable, and I am cool if we are overly restrictive if there is a reason that is good and is supported by enough people.

Xanis ,

You didn't answer my question. Let's try a different one. Once again without copping out: Give us a couple good reasons for why a book should be restricted in education.

CableMonster ,

Books should be restricted from education if a significant portion of the adults dont think its appropriate for children. This could include any variety of reasons they dont think its appropriate.

Croquette ,

Will each book be voted on individually? How does that work in your head? I doubt that people read minimally an excerpt of each book to decide and ban them.

CableMonster ,

Probably do it on a complaint basis. Each school district could have a diverse board and they could look at the books that people dont like and if X out of Y think it should be removed, then remove it. Does that work for you?

Xanis ,

I don't suppose you've heard what's happened with the trans bathroom tip line in Texas? Cause I got bad news for you...

Croquette ,

So Librarians have a bias, but not a board of old crusty people in a school district?

You are trying to fix a non-problem because some old christo-fascists cunts get their feelings hurt when they get told they are christo-fascists.

CableMonster ,

Yes exactly everyone will have biases, and we need to compromise and let all voices to be heard. So if the right wants to remove most things sexual, great; if the left wants to remove anything with the n word in it, great. Its better to be over censorious than under censorious in public buildings.

Croquette ,

I sure hope you go see your quack doctor when you are sick then, because modern medecine have bias.

Librarians are trained personnel explicitly for deciding what books are acceptable. The old Crusty Fuckfaces that want to ban anything and everything can become librarians themselves and decide for their school if they so wish.

But until then, they can read their bible and shut the fuck up.

If you want to go back to the dark ages, do so in the comfort of your own home and leave the society alone with your backwards beliefs.

Melvin_Ferd ,

Only if these books are inscribed on the side of a Glock

Valmond ,

We had like everything, from childrens books to engineering stuff. It's filed differently so your fragile mind won't need to see "adult" books if you don't want to I guess.

CableMonster ,

My fragile mind doesnt want minors to see things they shouldnt see till later. That should be a pretty obvious thing that everyone wants for children...

drunkpostdisaster ,

So remove them entirely? It's not like the kids are going read one by chance and if they are seeking them then they are ready

Jank ,

I like how this argument assumes schools are just regularly stocking school libraries with your Literotica history.

CableMonster ,

I didnt say they were. If its not happening very often why are you guys so against books being removed?

Croquette , (edited )

If it's not happening often, why are you hellbent on banning books? They are edge case, but your ilk act like every school library is chuck full of inappropriate books.

CableMonster ,

I am hellbent on protecting children from adults that will do them harm. If its only edge cases then why are you hellbent on putting rules in place to remove questionable books?

Donkter ,

Because the rules are in place and curated by professionals. What I don't want is every semi-educated group of extremists to have the ability to whine enough that they get important books banned.

CableMonster ,

Ah yes, "professionals". After covid you guys should have learned how experts are not so expert. I dont want children to see books with sexual content in them, does that make me an extremist?

WhatYouNeed ,

It's quite clear one group of people only want morons dictating what people can do, as opposed to those who listen and trust experts (who have often spent their entire life's acquirung knowledge in their area of speciality).

After all, who wants a doctor with 20yrs experience operating on their spleen, when Harry the butcher could do it.

CableMonster ,

You are right, I want to dictate that state funds cant be used to show sexual materials to children. I am guilty!

Jank ,

Pray tell- what is so sexy about The Diary of Anne Frank or Maus?

CableMonster ,

Its not The Diary of Anne Frank, its Anne Franks Diary... And thats a great point, why did they add sexual material to a young girls diary that had nothing sexual in it?

Donkter ,

This is called a motte-and-bailey. We were discussing a group trying to ban books about the Holocaust, and the larger concept about groups of parents being able to ban anything by whining about it enough. You put forward a different argument you think is bullet proof about banning sexual content with the implication that this argument defends the much weaker argument about banning Holocaust books or whatever books the mob may choose.

Just pointing that out. It's a common fallacy and one that feels right, it isn't necessarily done intentionally.

The freakout about sexual content is fabricated and designed to play to emotions. School libraries already ban sexual content. There's no smut or erotica at them. The small handful of books that people wanted to ban were either educational or were similar to many books that were not targeted by those parent groups and the sexual situations were not the focus of the book. The main similarity was that they were about LGBT sexualities.

CableMonster ,

Why was that book about Anne Frank objected?

Jyek ,

You'll protect children right until it affects your wallet. It's not about children, it's about control. Always has been.

WhatYouNeed ,

Get rid of anything that mentions rape, prostitution, genocide, or god forbid SODOMY?

Out goes the bible then. No one under 18 should read it.

CableMonster ,

The difference between the Bible and other more modern books is that the Bible is the most influential book in western civilization. If you want to have a censored on that removed those exact passages then that seems like a reasonable compromise.

wildcardology ,

Just like all christians do, they just want to pick the ones that fit their agenda and ignore the rest.

CableMonster ,

What "the rest" are we ignoring?

wildcardology ,

How about selling your daughter to slavery. why aren't christians doing that?

Jyek ,

I didn't know, all the passages they don't like talking about. Do you know about 2 Kings 2 23-24? I'll tell you, even in context it makes God look like a psychopath. God literally sends a bear into a village to maul 42 children to death because they made fun of a delicate man's bald head. That's not even twisting the story.

maniclucky ,

Fuck that, the wretched thing doesn't deserve special treatment. There is nothing about the contents of the bible that are worth granting exception for. You want to ban adult themes? I can think of nothing more deserving of such a ban than the oldest book to incorporate rape, divinely ordained murder (all over the place), instructions on how to perform an abortion, incest, and the severly mixed message of "god loves everyone, unless you don't worship them, then you get tortured forever".

CableMonster ,

Like it or not the Bible is the most influence book in western history, so yes it gets special treatment. But again, if you want to make a censored version for kids that takes out those parts, it seems like a reasonable compromise.

halowpeano ,

Nah, you're just some Christofascist. The correct and moral thing to do is ban you, from society.

CableMonster ,

I guess so if that includes not showing sexual things to kids.

JackiesFridge ,
@JackiesFridge@lemmy.world avatar

Fun fact: the events in Anne Frank's diary and Maus actually happened. They are far more valuable than the Goat Herder's Guide to the Galaxy.

CableMonster ,

The book that was objected to what not Anne Franks diary...

maniclucky ,

What you're not getting is that it being that influential is a bad thing and that it's time to pull it from its podium. It's just a religious text and if you're censoring any religious texts, you should censor all of them.

Blackmist ,

Unironically yes.

wildcardology ,

Incest. Don't forget incest.

thedirtyknapkin ,

the world is hard and kids need to be taught about us in a controlled environment like a school.

cammoblammo ,

I’ve worked in school libraries.

The funny thing is that kids will only read things that are of interest to them, and if they’re interested in it, they’re old enough to read it. If they borrow it because they like the cover or all their friends have apparently read it or some such reason, you can be assured it’ll be returned after they get through the first page.

CableMonster ,

I understand, but there are literally millions of books, why do we have to have the few books with sexual material that a significant portion of parents object to?

TankovayaDiviziya ,

Books discussing about the horrors of the Holocaust is "adult", I guess.

Lmao

chilicheeselies ,

Yes

BruceTwarzen ,

Yes, so 4 year olds can read mein kampf

cammoblammo ,

If you put that book in a kindergarten library, I can guarantee none of the kids will read it.

The only two reasons not to have it are 1) budget and 2) space. Use the room and money for books the kids will read.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

We have these people who go to college and get specialized degrees so that they can do things and work in school libraries and figure out what books are appropriate for the school.

You might have heard of them. They're called librarians.

Deciding what books do and don't belong in a library is literally part of their job. I know, because I'm married to one. She used to work in a school library, now she works in a public library. It was a Catholic school (she's an atheist, they didn't discriminate) and they trusted her to figure out which books were appropriate for their kids because of her degree. What does that tell you about librarians?

SPRUNT ,

It tells me that they are obviously evil because they don't blindly support a white Christian authoritarian regime.

/s

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The funny thing is that I know for a fact that there are Trump supporters who work in the library where my wife works (one is a cis woman with a mustache who must be mistaken for trans regularly, which surprised me), and they also don't approve of this shit. I mean yeah, they're total hypocrites, but they still don't support these book bans.

ILikeBoobies ,

Like a library?

fine_sandy_bottom ,

sorry I meant banning not banking

andrewta ,

Diary of Anne Frank? Really?! Dumb shits

Tattorack ,
@Tattorack@lemmy.world avatar

It's very difficult to avoid comparing right wing America to fascists when they have this much of a problem with Maus.

Philharmonic3 ,

Fucking yikes

paddirn ,

Wouldn't want people learning from history, now would we? How else are we supposed to repeat it?

Spazz ,

Fucking conservatives

Juigi ,

Texas full of whiny bitches seems like

kerrypacker ,

Everything is bigger in Texas, especially the whining snowflakes.

exanime ,

well the USA was circling the drain after Trump's first win... they are now at the toilet gargling stage

EatATaco ,

This isn't the USA. It's one school district in one state. I know you aren't bright enough to separate the two, but it would be like saying because the far right has made inroads in French election, then all of Europe is in the toilet.

Yawweee877h444 ,

Conservatives continue winning elections. Trump, of all people, actually became president. He has a non zero chance of being voted in again. Supreme Court is far right conservative. House of reps is republican controlled. Many Democrat elected officials are arguably, conservative.

This is the USA. This is who the conservatives are, and they win often.

Until the people show us by continually electing democrats to take the senate, house, and exec branch over and over and over again (not gonna happen), this type of shit is VERY USA.

slackassassin ,

Texas thanks you for your service.

EatATaco ,

You propose legitimate criticisms of the us as a whole. I was responding to the claim that this one school district being dumb is what makes the whole us dumb. It's terrible logic, and I think you understand that, which is why you didn't attempt to defend their argument, but pulled in tons of other points to justify their conclusion.

SuperSaiyanSwag ,

You’re not paying attention to any news if you think this type of thing is only happening in one school district. There has been big surge in the last year

Draedron ,

You can say france is in the toilet when they start banning books. But europe is a continent.

EatATaco ,

Sorry, meant to say "the EU" which is a political entity.

todd_bonzalez ,

This isn't the USA.

Texas is, believe it or not, the USA. Since 1845 even.

I know you aren't bright enough to separate the two

Big words from a pathetic person.

it would be like saying because the far right has made inroads in French election, then all of Europe is in the toilet.

Imagine existing in 2024 and not yet noticing the global trend towards Fascism in a world with increasing economic unfairness that's about to experience a worldwide climate disaster that will displace a billion people, handing a massive opportunity to the far right to take control.

But no, the right wing is no big deal. Just ignore what's happening in Texas and France (and everywhere else), it's not important.

EatATaco ,

Texas is, believe it or not, the USA. Since 1845 even.

No, Texas is part of the USA. It is not the USA. You even responded to the part about how I discussed parts of Europe...and you still fucked this up. Amazing.

But no, the right wing is no big deal.

Who said it wasn't a big deal? I'm all for calling this out, but using this one school district doing something dumb to claim the entirety of the USA is garbage is...well, completely fucking moronic.

Snowclone ,

It's not one school district is a nationwide effort, you're minimizing it either through ignorance or malice.

EatATaco ,

I'm sure there is some effort in every corner of the globe to have some books banned. You're minimizing it either through ignorance or malice.

Snowclone ,

Next time just say ''No U'', all this is doing is convincing me you don't know what these words mean.

cows_are_underrated ,

For it being "just one state" I read about book bannings way to often.

Snowclone ,

If you read the article you'll find that this is a nation wide movement, they are all copying ban lists from Booklook, a website that used to be a Mom's for Liberty site. Which is why these clowns keep blindly removing books that make them look like anti-semetic racist idiots. They are those things, but one would guess they'd be a little subtle, also most school districts don't allow blanket book banning, you have to find the book in their libraries and have a formal meeting about removing it. A lot of these books aren't even in school libraries.

But my point is. It's not one school district in one state it's happening all over.

EatATaco ,

There are people all over the globe who want to ban books, I'm sure there is plenty of trying. The fact that they haven't been successful across the country, but won in this one podunk district in a very conservative state, kind of reflects well on the US as a whole, no?

drunkpostdisaster ,

It's spreading though and will get worse if trump gets elected.

Snowclone ,

It's not just one place. I feel like you already understand this but you just need to argue a point for dumb reasons. It's not one place, it's a clear, obvious, nation wide effort with central organization. Why would you think that isn't significant OTHER than arguing a point for no reason beyond your ego?

didntbuyasquirrel ,

"Jewish themes"...like in the Bible?

pyre ,

i cannot believe how openly anti-nazi some books are! we should burn these intolerant books!

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, but the New Testament says everyone who doesn't worship Jesus is going to burn in hell forever, so that kind of lessens the whole Jewishness of the first half.

Vaginal_blood_fart ,

Shit states gonna shit state

StinkySocialist ,

I hate this dumb fuck country 😔

Neps ,
@Neps@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I swear this shithole takes every chance it can get at doing some of the most stupid shit ever its insane.

NotAnonymousAtAll ,

An "outspoken Israel advocate" wants to get rid of books about the Holocaust and antisemitism in general? I am very confused. Usually right wing extremist demands make some kind of sense from within their twisted world view, but how does that fit together at all, in any world view?

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

Because Israel is committing genocide?

Israel doesn’t mean Jewish.

buttfarts ,

Hard right folks don't like teaching the history of the consequences of hard right political movements. Those histories never end with a country full of happy economically secure people just living their lives because the only thing fascists can do is destroy everything.

ShareMySims , (edited )

You should give "Praying for Armageddon" a watch.

The TL;DW is that evangelical Christians are outspoken supporters of war in Israel, because they believe it will bring forth the second coming of Jesus.

AncientFutureNow ,

Sounds straight up delusional and seems like people who believe that sort of stuff and then act on it should be institutionalized for the safety of our fellow citizens.

Aren't most people who believe in invisible people and talk to thin air considered crazy?

ShareMySims , (edited )

I think that's a little ableist and a lot reductionist, ignoring the people creating these ideas and institutions and enforcing them (including by historically and still in different forms today actually institutionalising people that speak against them), because they didn't come out of thin air, and the money and power those people have definitely isn't imaginary.

Don't blame people grasping at straws for comfort in this shitty shitty world, blame those manipulating and exploiting them for profit and power.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

"Outspoken Israel advocates" who are evangelical Christians don't love Jews. Quite the opposite. They need Israel to exist so all Jews in the world can be forcibly deported to it, and then made to rebuild the Great Temple, so Jesus can come back and throw them all into Hell.

And a red cow comes into the picture as well.

None of that is sarcasm. That is really what they think.

mozz Admin ,
mozz avatar

local pastor and outspoken Israel advocate

Anne Frank’s diary

Art Spiegelman’s Holocaust graphic memoir

Israel advocate

Anne Frank’s diary

Israel advocate

Anne Frank’s diary

You fucking disgrace

Get out of my country

For some reason this made me way more irrationally angry than just killing Palestinians. It’s killing Palestinians and running cover for the people who killed Anne Frank and Spiegelman’s brother, and doing it all at the exact same time with no sense of shame or embarrassment but, I’m sure, a smug sense of superiority like everyone else is the monster in this

This guy better really hope that there isn’t a hell

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

But an Israel advocate would try to hide the holocaust least someone relate it to what Israel is doing to Palestine.

Maybe you’re thinking of a Jewish advocate and not an Israel advocate?

mozz Admin ,
mozz avatar

In-Israel Israel advocacy, and American Judaism, are absolutely chock full of people who are disgusted with Netanyahu’s government and his “war,” in part because of how much he is doing to destroy Israel on the world stage and get Israelis killed for more or less no purpose, as well as the unfolding horror of the apartheid state and genocide he’s enacting in their name.

Zionist advocates and Israel advocates and Jewish advocates and human rights advocates are four sometimes overlapping but distinct categories.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

A Zionist advocate and an Israel advocate are the same thing.

Human rights advocates never overlap with those.

mozz Admin ,
mozz avatar

I sense the morass of an ever widening pointless argument opening up beneath me.

I'll say my feeling on it and be done, and you're free to disagree: No one should be hated for where they were born, or for wanting a home or a safe place to be. Not a Palestinian, or a Russian, or an Israeli citizen, or someone who was born and grew up in Nazi Germany. If you got born in Israel and managed to penetrate through a significant haze of propaganda and groupthink to realize that what your country is doing on the world stage is a monstrous crime, what should you do?

Advocate for the destruction of your home?

Move away, never to return, renounce your citizenship and want nothing to do with your evil of a country? Yeah, maybe.

But I can also see someone who sees it as their duty to resist Netanyahu's government, tries to set their country back on the right course, advocates for the ICC, and turns out for protests against the government and gets brutalized and arrested for it. That stuff happens too. "Pro Israel" isn't really the right word for those people, no. I actually don't fully disagree with what you're saying, that in the modern world if you are "pro Israel" you're probably a piece of shit (or just totally propagandized / misinformed about what's actually going on, which there's a lot of also). So maybe I shouldn't have phrased it in those terms. But definitely, I think there is a type of Israeli person who is trying to support their home, the only place they've ever known to live, by resisting the Netanyahu government, and is ashamed of Israel but not like "against" them in the sense of, I hate my home and all the people here. You can love the town you grew up in, you can have friends and allies (hopefully, ones who are also horrified by the death and destruction in Gaza) there. You can be "pro" that part of it while still hoping that Netanyahu somehow gets what's coming for him, soon, and all of the killing that's being done in your name stops.

Like I say, I don't think anyone should be hated for where they were born.

(Oh, and also the far ends of the scale have 0 overlap, yes. You cannot be a Zionist and a human rights advocate, if my way of saying it made it sound like I thought you could.)

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

No one in Israel is out there protesting the genocide.

All the protests have been because not enough was done to rescue hostages or some other dislike of Netanyahu.

Overall polling shows Israel supports what is happening to Palestine or thinks not enough has been done.

mozz Admin ,
mozz avatar

Yes they are. It's the same groups that have been campaigning to end the occupation since before October 7th. It's not a majority or even close to - two-thirds of Israelis support the continuation of the war. But saying "no one" is an absolute falsehood. And, I think propaganda and misunderstanding of the situation on the ground is also a large part (in addition to, yes, some large amount of pure racism and violent vindictiveness that says it's okay if Palestinians are dying because they are bad.)

The wheel you're currently cranking on, is the same wheel that was turning right at the beginning of Israel, and managed to turn its way from "all the Nazis are wrong and evil" around to "the Jews are always the victims about everything" and has now arrived itself at "Israel can do anything it decides to and will still be the victim" and now, on the other side, "all the Israelis are always wrong and evil" is emerging into view coming in the other direction. I am telling you that no matter how hard you crank that wheel, on whichever side, your activity will never crank you around to arrive at a world that is peaceful or just.

(I know I said I'd stop after saying my bit; I just wanted to say a little more on it and shoot down the absolutely false idea that no one in Israel opposes the war on humanitarian grounds.)

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

That whole article talks more about protestors pushing for returning hostages and other dislikes of Netanyahu far more than it does generic 'anti-war' protestors.

So thanks for that really, just further solidifies my point.

Likewise life is not a fucking wheel, it doesn't travel in some predetermined path you've created. Let me tell you something, no matter how hard you centrist "don't do anything at all" approach it, you will never arrive at a world that is peaceful or just.

porous_grey_matter ,

Netanyahu is an evil fuck, but this isn't his war, Israel has been doing slow and steady ethnic cleansing of the region for 50+ years.

mozz Admin ,
mozz avatar

True that. Netanyahu's a little more extreme than the norm, but as I understand it, yes, Israeli politics is:

  • A majority that wants full-on ethnic cleansing
  • A minority party that wants oppression and murder but not in a way that's explicitly genocidal or threatens their own security
  • And maybe a tiny dissident faction that wants actual human rights for the Palestinians

I'm speaking well of the dissident faction and highlighting its existence in the first place; I'm not saying it's anywhere near the mainstream.

ImADifferentBird ,
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Rabin was closer than anyone to ending it, and Netanyahu's stochastic terrorism led directly to his death. And he's been propping up Hamas ever since, to give Israel an enemy to hate and prevent peace from ever coming to the region.

Fuck him, he owns it now.

mozz Admin ,
mozz avatar

“No does more for Israel than I do”

“What about that time you killed a democratically elected Israeli leader who was doing good things for Israel”

“That’s what I said. He was doing more than me for Israel, and we can’t have that. No one does more for Israel than I do.”

cyborganism ,

Hey man. If it looks like a Nazi, walks like a Nazi and quacks like a Nazi, it's probably a Nazi

DacoTaco ,
@DacoTaco@lemmy.world avatar

Idk, if it quacks it might be an undercover nazi-duck

cyborganism ,

The worst possible kind.

samothtiger ,

Nazi ducks
Nazi ducks
Nazi ducks

DUCK OFF!!

gedaliyah OP Mod ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

Is... that a DK reference??

nilloc ,

Fuck Knight? Yes, it is. ;)

ZILtoid1991 , (edited )

If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and looks like a duck, then it's...

A swan! It claims to be a swan, therefore it is a swan! Swans are beautiful, therefore if you're against swans you're a bad person! You see ducks everywhere and accuse everyone being a duck! The word "duck" lost its meaning. In fact, we defeated the ducks in 1945, therefore any "ducks" we might have today are just edgy teens cosplaying as such.

EDIT: If you ask me, I think conservatives are just "good cops" to the fascists "bad cops" (this gave me an idea for a potential video essay).

ImADifferentBird ,
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

From what I understand, a lot of Israelis are rather unkind towards Holocaust survivors. Which is fucking wild to me.

Aceticon ,

It's only wild if you believe their fable that their nation represents all Jews.

If however you see them as just another bunch of ethno-Fascists, it actually makes sense that many of the victims of the other large ethno-Fascist group in the last century wouldn't get along with them simply because they recognize many of the same signs.

rottingleaf ,

I didn't think that would happen in Armenia, but since it does - the way some Armenians act towards refugees from Artsakh is similar, I think.

It's easier for Israelis (especially when being fascists) to think that they themselves are strong, and those survivors are not like them, they are weak. It's as they wanted to identify with Nazis more.

With such Armenians too - it's the worse part of them thinking they can be just like Turks if they suck up to Turks, and also because Artsakhtsis lost their homeland for being weak, and they are not weak.

A bit like ignorant and cowardly people abandon relatives with chronic diseases, when there's no evidence of those diseases being transferable.

It's just cowardice. Humans do it under pressure or when presented with dark events for their interpretation and self-identification. While good upbringing may reduce the risk of someone growing up a coward, it's very human.

gedaliyah OP Mod ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

No, quite the contrary.

You've probably read that in the early days of the State there was a lot of resentment towards Holocaust survivors. They were counter to the national narrative of the "New Jew" who was strong, hard-working, and living off the land. Shoah survivors represented Jews as victims, who did not fight back against the Nazis, instead going like "lambs to the slaughter."

This all changed after the Eichmann trial (1961), which is when most of the world first came to understand the true nature of how the Nazis operated. Many people did fight back, and many couldn't.

Holocaust survivors are revered and honored in Israel, although the country suffers from poor social services with a lot of gaps. Shoah survivors often fall through those gaps, along with other elders.

Commiunism ,

It's not really surprising - historically, the creation Israel state was helped massively by antisemitists, who wanted to get rid of jews in their own country and having them a place to immigrate to would be the easiest option (the phenomena is often referred to as Zionist antisemitism).

So yeah, it does make sense - they can hate the jews, but also support Israel at the same time.

ZILtoid1991 ,

In fact, Zionism is built upon the antisemitic myth of "Jews and non-Jews cannot live together".

hexabs ,

I simply cannot wrap my head around this. How is this defensible? What possible justification could they provide for banning Maus?? Anne's Diary?? How could you even link these to any contemporary agenda?

Treczoks ,

They can link them to their own goals. They want to avoid that people might notice the signs and recognize them as a warning. Let me guess, "The Wave" has been banned there, too?

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Because they're fucking Nazis, how many ways do they need to prove it to you?

davidagain ,

Wise person: "Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them."

Actual Nazis: Great idea. Let's burn some books.

hexabs ,

Nah I get that they're Nazis. But the article failed to mention the official justification to ban these. I want to know what's the sugarcoated, duplicitous rationale they provided.

Etterra ,

Their justification is that they would have banned them anyway if they'd thought of it on their own, but now that somebody's brought it up they realize it exists and provided the smallest justification to ban it.

It makes me glad that my state passed a law against banking books (in public libraries at least). Hopefully it'll spread to public schools. Religious schools are probably a lost cause though.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

See, us Jews control Hollywood, so all of that is just PR messaging about our Holocaust lie. And we also control the banks, so we're the ones buying these books and bribing school librarians to put them on the shelves. Whereupon, I guess, something about the trans agenda happens? I'm a cishet Jew, so I'm only up on our side of the conspiracy.

cultsuperstar ,

It's amazing that Republicans are both pro-Israel and anti-Jew at the same time.

ShaggySnacks ,

They are only pro-Israel in because an united Israel will help kick off the events in the Book of Revelations.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

There's a reason for that, which I mentioned in a post elsewhere in the thread:

“Outspoken Israel advocates” who are evangelical Christians don’t love Jews. Quite the opposite. They need Israel to exist so all Jews in the world can be forcibly deported to it, and then made to rebuild the Great Temple, so Jesus can come back and throw them all into Hell.

And a red cow comes into the picture as well.

None of that is sarcasm. That is really what they think.

Aceticon ,

Even without the whole Religion angle, racists the world over just love ethno-nationalism: each ethnicity living in their own corner, separate from the rest, is exactly what these people want.

rottingleaf ,

In my experience something similar exists with a subset of Russians, - they hate Israel the particular way, they just love the fact that it exists and commits crimes.

When you are Jewish and proud of yourself, it makes them just as livid as when you are Armenian and proud of yourself.

Republic of Armenia is quite miserable and they enjoy that, Israel is strong, but lacks dignity even more than RoA and they enjoy that, so the emotion gets especially extreme when you put these states and your own pride and the fact that they can change and have dignity in contrast.

(I have tested that.)

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Armenians have suffered their own genocide as well, one the Turks still refuse to acknowledge. At least the Germans acknowledge the Holocaust.

rottingleaf ,

one the Turks still refuse to acknowledge

That's actually imprecise.

They acknowledge that "something" happened, but deny various separate traits, like intent or numbers or relevance for today or even just say that genocide wasn't illegal then. There's also that "it didn't happen, but they deserved it, and we'll do it again" thing. Which gives a very special feeling, considering they are well in position to do it again.

And it's illegal to publicly recognize it in Turkey, so not only malevolent, but also benevolent voices seem to be kinda in denial, while in fact not.

Still had Germany not lost WWII so conclusively, I suspect we'd be amazed at how self-conscious a lot of Turks are as compared to Germans.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

True, I was not totally right in that. It just is so sad beyond the genocide and the genocide denial that Ataturk was such a force for good when it came to his own people and such an evil fuck when it came to Armenians. Until Erdoğan, Turkey was a generally secular state, a rarity for a predominantly Muslim country and that is down to Ataturk, who was an atheist. I wish I could praise him, but I can't. He was part of the Young Turk movement and he was instrumental in trying to erase what happened from history.

rottingleaf ,

He wasn't as good to them either, look up Dersim rebellion and such. Erdo started as a democratic change with a small flavor of Islam. Because that secularism was about creating a fascist state and a social layer of Kemalist privileged elite (military mostly). But that's something a Turk may explain better.

Phegan ,

It tracks! Nazi Germany was actually pro Jewish state as well, the rationale was that it gets all the Jews out of Germany. It also supposedly kicks off the rapture when the Jews return to Israel.

Lets_Eat_Grandma ,

Well it's a trick, they are more anti-muslim than anti-jew. They want the war to escalate because both sides die, and the one they hate more has more casualties.

They can also sell them all the weapons used in the war... might as well fill the pockets with the new "solution."

limelight79 ,

Isn't it about time to fire up your space laser?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Why do you think Oregon is on fire right now? I swear, it's like people don't think I even know how to do my job sometimes...

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