This is the guy that a group of people here want you to NOT vote against. Don’t listen to them and as many others have said already…. Vote like lives depend on it.
The "I'd rather live under a fascist dictatorship than vote for Biden" crowd are little better than the red-hatted morons cheering for that same fascist dictatorship.
Non-voting "leftists" will just find a way to moralize their shitty choice, just like they virtue signal about genocide and immediately promote tactics that are going to increase it.
Bingo. I’m not saying there aren’t some legitimate leftists, but considering that they’re not doing shit about those posing as them to spread propaganda- really doesn’t help their agenda at all.
Many of them go to the streets, protest on their campuses or in their workplaces. Many of them got physically attacked by police or police endorsed fascist groups on campuses.
What did you do in the past 9 months? How many protests were you part of?
The fuck has this to do with anything? Do you approach everyone that says things you disagree with using this bullshit?
This has nothing to do with protests. What I’m taking about are the leftists that do nothing about “the leftists” that pose as them to bandwagon the agenda for the purpose to get people to not vote against Trump.
And trust me- I do PLENTY during the years between elections. And what I do is far more effecting than protesting every four years over FOTW manufactured outrage.
So what do you do? Because you claim that everyone who will not vote for Biden and is announcing that would be doing nothing. Which is not only a very crass assumption to make, also with how you relate it to Palestine and claiming people would be part of a manufactured outrage you are either showing that genocide is not an important issue to you or even worse you deny others people outrage over genocide to be sincere. Especially with how understandably people most outraged and worried are of racialized communities this adds racists overtones to your statement. Now maybe that was not your intention in which case it is a good chance for you to reflect on it.
So what are you specifically doing aside from voting and insulting people on the internet?
ROFL! Dude. What I do and how much of it for how long- isn’t what this is about. And I’m fully aware of this tactic you’re using to turn the discussion around to put me on the defensive.
I’m not new to this.
News flash:
Not voting doesn’t cancel an election. Someone is still getting elected. And suggesting people not vote against Trump, is support for Trump. This is not up for debate. This is reality. With us or against us is a very real thing.
And the fact that most of the clowns that are not voting know damn well that things will be as bad is not FAR worse for Palestine if Trump is elected- and don’t care…. Says EVERYTHING we need to know about your agenda.
It’s been argued time-and-again how you people can’t offer a better candidate to win in November- but still fold your arms know how badly we will ALL be fucked if Trump gets the White House.
Even people for other countries have been pleading with you to do the right thing.
Again you are attacking people proclaiming they would be doing nothing, when you know absolutely nothing about them, simply because they voice a different opinion to yours. But given how you avoided the question you create the impression that you in fact are doing nothing except from insulting people online.
Also your blissfull ignorance to the racial component of your allegations make me believe that you are a white upper class american who wants minorities to play by your ball as a Trump win would mildly inconvenience you. Meanwhile people who actually face threats from a Trump presidency also speak out against Biden because they understand that the US political system is there to genocide all non white people.
But the white liberal being a racist in disguise is something we now since the civil right movements.
virtue-signalling. : the act or practice of conspicuously displaying one's awareness of and attentiveness to political issues, matters of social and racial justice, etc., especially instead of taking effective action.
If you're going to complain about genocide then do something that will objectively make the one thing you're complaining about much worse, you're only signalling the virtues you profess to care about and not doing anything to stop it.
If you're so upset about being called a virtue signaler, maybe don't virtue signal about your vote when your vote isn't any kind of harm reduction and would actively make the problem worse?
But hey, what do I know, I just actually want to minimize genocide instead of taking my ball and going home to let a monster into the white house and make it worse. But please, keep telling me how much your type is "anti-genocide" when you're asking people to do the same thing trump and his ilk want. Kindly fuck off with that bullshit friend.
I'm glad to hear that. I apologize for lumping you in with those pushing the 'dont vote blue' bullshit while professing* their opposition to genocide. As I said above, that's the virtue signalling I'm talking about, and that's exactly what that behavior is.
I'm not asking anyone to vote for Trump, to not vote, or to vote third party. In this very thread I've said to vote for Biden. Not that you care.
I'm not going to spend 30 minutes to an hour on every person replies to me with what appears to be virtue signaling to not vote left to see if they're actually voting Biden. Again, I apologize for lumping you in with the rest of those. But given the quantity of that behavior it is not out of line to assume.
The only reason I ask people to vote for Biden is because I care about genocide. I want to stop the genocide as much as I can, and prevent a genocide from coming here to our shores. I have family and friends who are LGBT+, and I am afraid for their safety and lives if Trump were to be elected.
And for anybody who pretends that they care about that, while pushing behaviors that actively sabotage their stated goals, I am absolutely going to call out as virtue signalling because that's what it is. I want to see people actually take actions that align with what they say they believe, not just talk about it while sabotaging their goals through messaging pushed by their opposition as well.
You know what would minimize genocide? If US politicians would have to face repercussions for helping in it. You do the opposite you grant the blanket check to the Biden administration and ensure them that no matter how much they support genocide, you will vote for them.
You are enabling it and you probably know it subconsciously, which is why you try to spin it the other way around because you don't want to face the reality of your actions.
The only thing the Dems care about is power, just like the Reps. If you would threaten them to loose their power, they would be forced to act on this matter. Instead you reassure them that they have nothing to fear from you. And the most absurd thing is, this will not only fuck the people in Palestine more, it will also fuck you, as nothing you want politically will matter. You are telling the Dems that they dont need to fight for your vote. You are telling them to ignore your needs, your positions, your values.
Are you planning on voting for the candidate who is going to be the lesser evil and minimize the harm, or are you going throw it away on a protest vote/not vote at all?
Because if you're doing the latter, you're not opposing genocide, you're abdicating your opposition by not opposing the person who wants to finish the job. Not voting against trump on the general election while professing* to oppose genocide is virtue signalling because you're explicitly and intentionally not doing the one thing that will have the most effect on the genocide.
I’m voting for Biden, but I’m not gonna justify a genocide to shame others to do the same. There are many reasons to give to vote for Biden, (rejoining the climate agreement, abortion rights), but apologizing for a genocide isn’t one of them.
And asking people to vote for Biden when they profess to care about genocide is not justifying genocide. Especially when they say they won't vote or are voting 3rd party as a protest vote or something to teach them a lesson.
I'm sorry you're upset about me labelling that behavior as virtue signalling, but that's what it is. You may not want to shame others for behaviors that harm the goal, but I absolutely will.
The “vote blue no matter who” crowd is actually hurting Biden, not helping. By dismissing the complaints of constituents, it places their interests in the background. It can be argued, that with the genocide occurring, it actually pushes people to not vote, or vote third party.
A campaign run on holding voters hostage doesn’t work, because it isn’t really a campaign at all; it is a campaign against your opponent rather than for your candidate.
The Democratic Party turning their backs on a huge portion of their voting populace isn’t some sort of sacrifice necessary to win the election, it is the shovel the Democratic Party is using to dig its own grave — if not this year, then in the years to come. Ignoring and stifling the voices of the people you’ve hurt, plugging your ears when they ask for accountability and telling them to take what they are given is a surefire way to cement their contempt for you, not to get them to vote for you. Strong-arming them into voting for you doesn’t work because minorities have already lost the election, and they know it. They lost the moment an establishment Democrat took the primaries again. They lose no matter what color the White House turns in January. source
Because we should be working to minimize suffering wherever we can. No one deserves to suffer these fates, and I don't want them to expand. Don't let perfect be the enemy of something better.
Why shouldn't we fight genocide however we can to prevent more suffering? Giving up and letting them genocide even more just tells me that genocide isn't an important topic in one's mind, no matter what their words say.
The nearby countries of Egypt, Turkey, Lebanon etc could all do way more than Biden. They don't accept refugees. They don't send food. They don't offer peacekeepers etc. But instead of blaming the countries in the area you're blaming a country on the other side of the world. We aren't responsible for everything that happens everywhere in the world.
And since that’s the case, why doesn’t America deserve to suffer?
Do you not get how much worse a right wing government in America would be for Palestine? The previous terrible choice of Sex Offender Trump voters, George Bush is responsible for Hamas taking over Gaza.
The responsibility for Gaza is as follows.
Hamas
Israel's terrible prime minister
Egypt doing nothing
Turkey doing nothing
Lebanon, Jordan, and all the other nearby countries doing nothing.
George W Bush (R) letting Hamas take over Gaza
Gazans over 30 for voting for Hamas
Britain and France for their colonialist setup of the region.
They dont send food because Israel blocks it. In fact the aid to Gaza on land is mainly coming through Jordan and then gets pillaged by Isareli terrorists supported by the government. When Egypt wanted to send humanitarian aid in November through Rafah crossing, Israel bombed it repeatedly.
Meanwhile the US is literally supplying the very weapons that are murdering the people in Gaza. And even when the US claims to provide humanitarian aid, like with that Pier they built it ends up in reality being used to facilitate massacres like in Nusereit, using aid trucks as disguise for Israeli genocide forces.
I don't know what you are smoking, but it most be strong if you believe Israel could act without the massive support and endorsement by the US government. Israel is primarily to blame as they are directly committing the genocide and then comes the US as the are delivering the weapons and providing diplomatic cover, even threatening international courts that want Israeli war criminals to face justice.
Egypt had their own gate into Gaza until very recently. And Gaza has a giant coastline. That's why Biden built a port in Gaza. So he could send in food aid.
Israel bombed it repeatedly.
Nope. Israel cannot bomb Egypt without starting a major war.
like with that Pier
Biden's humanitarian aid pier can be used by any country. How come Turkey isn't using it to send aid? Lebanon? Anybody in Arab land?
using aid trucks as disguise for Israeli genocide forces.
So you want all food aid to Gaza stopped, because of Hamas Crime Syndicate propaganda? Sounds like you yourself are supporting genocide whether you know it or not.
Israel could act without the massive support and endorsement by the US government
Dude Israel literally defied a UN Security Council resolution from Biden to stop the war. What the heck are you smoking?
Nope. Israel cannot bomb Egypt without starting a major war.
Israel bombed the Gazan side of the crossing, destroying the roads and making it unpassable for trucks. Also Israel killed two Egyptian soldiers when taking over the crossing.
Dude Israel literally defied a UN Security Council resolution from Biden to stop the war. What the heck are you smoking?
As the US continued to send billions in bombs to Israel and will soon host Netanyahu despite the ICC seeking him as war criminal. You know that the UN resolutions only work if the powerful countries enforce them? Guess who would have to enforce it by just not sending weapons. But he still does. Judge actions, not words.
Israel bombed the Gazan side of the crossing, destroying the roads and making it unpassable for trucks.
Then Egypt could have sent soldiers in. In fact, I bet Israel would have been totally fine if Egypt simply took over the entire Gaza area. The entire war could end tomorrow if Egypt simply agreed to do that.
Guess who would have to enforce it by just not sending weapons.
Nobody. Previous aid has nothing at all to do with implementing the UN ceasefire resolution. Biden already stopped sending any types of weapons that could be used in Gaza because Israel has a terrible PM. Israel can buy any weapons it wants on the international market. The idea that the US could magically stop the war is nonsense, as is the idea that Biden has done nothing, as is the idea that the countries in the region do not have the chief power and responsibility to do what they could.
DudI, you are as predictable as they come. I could fish for Crab just by posting ANYTHING critical of the “far left” propagandists.
And- I don’t pretend, kiddo…
They are here in DROVES telling people not to vote. And you know this. You’ve been involved in some of the discussions where these people post their shit-take comments. So what’s your angle here?
You say you’re voting for Biden, yet protect the propagandists that are seemingly trying to get Trump elected?
DudI, you are as predictable as they come. I could fish for Crab just by posting ANYTHING critical of the “far left” propagandists.
You're admitting to trolling here. The scare quotes around far left are another attempt to tie anyone to your left to the worst of the right, with no evidence at all.
And- I don’t pretend, kiddo…
Ok. If you prefer I say that you're lying about everyone to your left in your constant attempts to silence criticism, I can do that. Demeaning pet name noted.
They are here in DROVES telling people not to vote.
Not just droves, all-caps DROVES, even. Like Republicans call the brown people they hate on the spurious grounds that they're here to steal their jobs. What do you suppose these all-caps DROVES are here to steal? Oh, maybe since they all became Russians the instant they disagreed with you about anything at all, they're here to steal your precious bodily fluids.
So what’s your angle here?
I criticize people to my right. You should try it.
You say you’re voting for Biden
Yes, I am.
yet protect the propagandists that are seemingly trying to get Trump elected?
I cannot protect the people you call propagandists from anything. And if they're trying to get Trump elected, they're going about it pretty badly. This is a small fledgling platform, full of centrists who are so firmly entrenched in their positions that they imagine that anyone to their left is a scary foreigner, or feign such paranoia in an attempt to silence criticism of their wing of the party, and to a lesser extent Biden and Netanyahu. Propaganda would see a piss-poor return on investment here.
Already did. It was certainly more overt than what others have been banned for.
I’m simply stating that you predictably show up any time someone is critical of your bullshit.
When you call any and all criticism of Democrats from the left (and only ever the left) bullshit, you get pushback from people who criticize Democrats from the left. Imagine that.
And when have I tried to silence criticism by suggesting people vote?
You don't. You try to silence criticism by falsely claiming that those to your left are propagandists trying to get Trump to win, with no evidence whatsoever. Any other claims I didn't make that you want to demand proof of?
Dude… you’re a well know misinformation troll here. The modlogs prove it and all you do is derail the topic into bullshit rhetoric.
I stand by the only statement I've made that has ever been removed as misinformation. I can defend it no further here without going against the moderation team, and you're taking advantage of that. I invite anyone to read the modlog and see what was removed and judge for themselves if it rose to the level of misinformation. Anyone with questions about it can message me, but I will not discuss it further in this community in accordance with the mods' decision.
I’m done discussing your bad faith bullshit.
You'll never be done calling anything to your left and only your left bad faith. Remember to vote for Biden.
You’re not going to vote for him either way. And everyone knows this. So no. You’re not getting your as kissed like you are expecting.
That isn’t how it works. You get called out for what you’re doing and that’s that. Want people to be nice to you for allowing a rapist who will do much worse to Palestine to get elected?
Not happening.
Especially when this pretty much pokes a hole in your entire fake ideology.
Vitriol and negativity doesn’t win over voters. I’m starting to think a lot of the more ardent “Biden or Else” supporters actually want Trump to win. Stoking division among potential voters is a sure fire way to do that.
So anyone that disagrees with your Biden or else position is a propagandist? How about you just accept that I won't give Biden my vote mostly because of Gaza and just move on.
So the fact that you know damn well that Trump will do just as much if not worse- illustrates that you Gaza stance is absolute bullshit.
And the fact that you know damn well by now what will happen to our LGBTQ+ friends and family, and women’s body autonomy if Trump is elected- and clearly don’t give a shit about any of it-
Shows you’re a propagandist. Don’t make this about my words- it’s YOURS that are telling on you.
Yeah okay pal, you keep throwing around propagandist as if you just learned the word and need to use it as much as possible. Right now you're like an exposed nerve so I'm there's no point in me trying to have a dialogue.
That’s quite an ironic accusation considering you haven’t seemed to mentioned Gaza at all prior to now. I’m guessing you’re either new to the concept of genocide- or you haven’t been made aware that Palestine was a place that existed before recently?
I’m reluctantly voting for Biden. And I don’t need your validation to do so. This heavy-handed approach of forcing people to vote your candidate generally has the opposite effect.
Who’s forcing or being forced? You’re not a victim of voting oppression because someone suggest you do the right thing and keep a rapist traitor out of office.
Reluctantly do whatever the fuck you want- or don’t. But anyone here rusts suggesting that we don’t vote against a tyrant is here in bad faith and needs to be called out for what they are.
As I’ve said- if this doesn’t describe you-
THEN I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU.
So how about you take a deep breath and stop white-knighting for people that are using your platform to disrupt an election.
To anyone that doesn’t have an agenda, there’s nothing at all inconsistent with anything I’ve said. However saying shit like “I am voting for Biden.” And then going so far out of your way to defend those of you that suggest no one vote against Trump…
Well, now that is what I’d call inconsistent. But you people do love to project, so sure. Call me what you deny.
Oh ya, Trump is oozing with honey, that's why he has so much support.
No one is "forcing" anyone to vote for Biden. They're just me being coddled when they say Biden is bad so you should let someone significantly worse be in power.
The time to complain about Biden not being good enough is during the primaries, and the 3.5 years between elections. People need to accept reality that this coming election is between Biden and Trump, and no amount of complaining about Biden will change that.
Yes, absolutely complain that Biden isn't doing enough and push him to do more. But this rhetoric of "I'm not going to vote for Biden so that the US can burn to the ground under Trump" is childish.
They are just angry that this is the choice: Biden, or Trump. I get it, I’ve been there. But, directing that frustration at others who have the same problems only serves those that seek to sow discord. A lot of people come here to vent. And if they want to direct their anger at me, I can take it. I just don’t want their venting to disenfranchise others that would vote for Biden.
In practicality, and this life-and-death is a matter of practicality rather than preference, betrayal beats zealous genocide support.
Even as someone from outside, I can say the U.S.' best bet is Biden again. His international politics are no different than most U.S. presidents that came to office in the last century, but at least U.S. citizens are getting a nice end of the mostly shit-ended sticks for a change. And that goes for all the current immigrant peoples in the U.S., too, although for many the reason for leaving their homes can be traced back to deep-rooted U.S. foreign policy.
What do they have with Trump? Persecution during immigration while their home countries will be kept bombed to hell or stripped and exploited by the ongoing U.S. policy.
You’re talking to a propagandist by all appearances. They seem to know exactly what’s going on, so in order to get Trump elected, this is what they seem to think they need to do. Or maybe they’ve been told to do….
Trump pulled more troops out of the Middle East than Biden and Obama. Clinton ran in 2016 on a platform of going to war with Iran.
Also the goal is not to reward Trump. The goal is to punish the support for genocide so American politics stop supporting genocide. The fact that two geriatric genocide supporters are your choices for the presidential election should bring everyone sane to the streets and push for the long overdue change of the political system. By keep voting Democrats purely based on "well they are not Trump" you get exactly what you got the last 30 years. Getting fucked by both parties, the Dems moving further and further to the right and the Reps enjoying many of their policies enacted by the Dems themselves. Look at Trumps border wall. Look at mass deportations. Look at the internment camps were children are separated from their families. All continued and expanded on by the current Dem administration.
There was that one other time Trump was racist (not current! only includes up to 2017):
1973: The Nixon Administration sued Trump for refusing to rent to black people
1980s: Trump’s casinos were accused of hiding black staff when Trump visited
1989: Trump took out a full page ad arguing for the death penalty for a group of black men (The ‘Central Park Five’), effectively putting a bounty on their heads and plaguing them with a lifetime of death threats. He was sued by the Justice Department for discrimination.
1991: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kinds of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day...I think that the [black] guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is.
1992: Trump’s casino was fined $200,000 for transferring black dealers off certain tables to appease racist patrons.
1993: Trump said Native American casinos shouldn’t be allowed because, “They don’t look like Indians to me.”
2000: Trump ran a series of attack ads against Native American casinos, alleging (with no proof) that they were guilty of crimes.
2004: Trump fired a black contestant from ‘The Apprentice” for being over-educated.
2010: Trump argued in favor of segregating Muslims in Lower Manhattan.
2011: Birtherism. Trump alleged that Obama was Kenyan based on nothing but skin color. He’s neither apologized, nor renounced that claim.
2015 (1): Trump called Mexican immigrants “rapists” who are “bringing crime and drugs” to the US.
2015 (2): Trump called for “a ban on all Muslims entering the US.”
2016(1): Trump called for a Mexican judge to recuse himself based on nothing other than his race. Paul Ryan said, “This was the textbook definition of a racist comment.”
2016 (2): Trump regularly retweeted material from white supremacists and neo-Nazis during his campaign.
2016(3): Trump tweeted a picture alleging Hillary was Jewish or controlled by Jewish people.
2016(4): The Trump campaign adopted Nixon’s “Law and Order” rhetoric which was based in racial fear mongering.
2016(5): Trump told black voters, “What do you have to lose?”
2017(1): Trump asked a black reporter to set up a meeting with the black caucus simply because she was black.
2017(2): “...some very fine people on both sides”, said Trump of a violent Nazi rally.
Res also participated in a 2016 New York Times article along with dozens of women who called out Trump’s private behavior toward them.
“He would make ridiculous remarks,” Res said Sunday on MSNBC’s Velshi of her time with Trump.
“And Donald [Trump] was bragging among, to us executives, there were four of us, about how great the guy was and he was a real gentleman, and he was so neat and clean.
And he looked at a couple of our executives who happen to be Jewish, and he said ‘Watch out for this guy, he sort of remembers the ovens,’ you know, and then smiled.”
“He mocked religious people, he thought they were stupid for believing in things that were obviously, intellectually to him not true.”
In her book about Trump, Res wrote, “Bigotry and bias control Donald’s view of the world.”
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