There won't be a Gaza to level by the time the next term starts. "Uninstructed" and similar campaigns are trying to get Biden to influence his policies now, not make a statement about which man will be better in the next genocide.
There's been a Gaza for decades, it's not going to stop just because the genocidal Bibi tries to, even if it is being turned into rubble. The primary uncommited campaign is good, and I support it, but people saying that they're gonna vote for Trump over Biden / that they'll abstain entirely are just not going to help either present or future atrocities — wiping your hand clean doesn't save lives.
Saying they won't vote for Biden is the only leverage they have to exercise to prompt policy changes. "Uncommitted" scoring big in Michigan was effectively the first time Biden even started to pay attention to anti-genocide voters. Again, the goal is to make Biden change his stance so that he wins the election. Threatening his election is the leverage, not the end goal.
Yes, but it only works so much as that leverage exists. When the alternative is Trump, that leverage isn't gonna be realistically useable come November — and there are definitely folks who don't just say they won't vote for Biden over this issue (which is imo good, since that's the whole point of a democracy). I just worry that this strategy actually does extend to the general election and make even more people suffer even more... IMO, focus should be on bottom up — specifically the legislative branch, where there's quite a few especially in the House where a primary campaign could do well and force the issue at hand.
At the end of the day though we just have to see whether current strategy works out come election day, I feel. Or if/when, God willing, a peace is attained.
That voters are a single unit that will in the end have to choose between Trump and Biden is a false assumption, because people aren't objective robots and the representatives you see online or leading campaigns are just the tip of the iceberg. Many Muslim voters aren't going to stay home because they don't think there's a difference between Trump and Biden, they'll stay home because they're mad as hell and maybe voting wasn't that essential to them in the first place. The people speaking out, and the political junkies online, are probably all going to end up voting for Biden (at least in states where voting for president matters), but they're in tune with and representing sentiment for voters within their communities that aren't reachable by a cold argument about relative value.
The Democratic party can't berate voters into supporting them, they need to actually do things that make them believe in them. There are too many out there for whom politics is a vibes thing and who will never have a direct conversation with a political advocate to tell them about strategic voting for lesser evils. Biden could lose because of Gaza, but that's not because some politically active people organized a opposition campaign. The voters he's losing are being lost because he's adamantly rejecting the position of the majority of his party while genocide and starving children are playing on the nightly news. That doesn't go away if all these advocates just pretend it's not happening. They're putting a spotlight on the danger, not causing it.
The ones that will suffer most under Trump are the ones threatening to get him elected. The Dems know this. If anything, that's leverage Biden has and is using, unfortunately.
Against people that want to see the people of Palestine not be constantly bombed into oblivion. Trump's US will be significantly worse for women and minorities, so most people in those groups will end up better off under Biden because at the very least the Democratic Party aren't literally white supremacist fascists. Those that don't vote for Biden will largely be doing so as a protest vote or through apathy, which is significant (especially when you can see the size of the uncommitted vote, which is quite significant, and I hope grows), but also self-defeating — so it makes sense for the Democrats to pander to the type of person that would vote for Nikki Haley (which unfortunately somehow has a demographic much bigger than the left) instead, since they wouldn't necessarily be endangered as harshly by Trump and so need incentives to vote for Biden.
Trying to make this an election issue is moronic. Neither side is with Gaza, making his a moot point. Not to mention this is an election for the American presidency, not for president of Earth and Gaza. Deal with this outside of the election, through Congress and the Senate, but to make this an election issue only helps Trump and will hurt Gaza in the long run
Ah, the genocide-apologia account pops in with the clarion call of "protest some other time in some other place in a way that doesn't impact the target of your protest". And we've all seen your posts. We know sure as shit you don't give a fuck about "helping Gaza in the long run".
This isn't an election issue, this is a "right now" issue with a warning for danger in the election if he continues. Biden not changing his tack is what helps Trump. He's the active party in all this. The campaign didn't "make it an election issue", they're just trying to make him recognize it.
You're mistaken in thinking this issue somehow gets solved before the election. An issue that has persisted for the entire length of isreals existence.
In this gambit to "stop Biden from supporting genocide" they have over played their hand and guaranteed Trumps win. The opposition will make certain this issue is at the forefront until election day despite any action from Biden.
You can argue all you want because I pray that I am wrong.
Stop sending them bombs right now, and withhold money until they can prove they’ve stopped murdering civilians. This is an easy solution, it’s such a low bar, yet Biden is unable to clear it.
If I were to turn on my Machiavellian reptile brain and looked at this situation (from what I've read) as if this was a game or something...
Israel is kinda like The West's attack/guard dog in the Middle East. That dog is getting out of control. The only leash that The West has on Israel is their funding, remove the funding and they remove the leash, and now we've got an out of control dog with nukes and no leash. It may not seem like the leash isn't doing much to control it but it's far better than letting the dog loose. Especially considering how powerful the dog is, how it seems to have more control over The West than the other way around, might have to do with all the religious leadership on both sides looking forward to the red cow they're sacrificing this month, maybe their prophecy of a "second coming" and (nuclear) fire raining from the sky to end humanity is kinda the point.
I'm going to stop the reptile brain before it mentions how we typically deal with bad dogs that can't be tamed, because god forbid THAT'S taking things too far.
Both Biden and Trump are motivated by the aipac money. Period. Don’t fool yourself.
You can’t shame the younger voters into voting for Biden. They don’t care what Hillary Clinton thinks and they are tired of being lied too by corporate donors, I mean corporate politicians.
You can’t shame the younger voters into voting for Biden. They don’t care what Hillary Clinton thinks and they are tired of being lied too by corporate donors, I mean corporate politicians.
Your original point was categorically NOT "the lesser of two evils".
How about understanding that there are only 2 candidates? You either support one with your vote, or you support the other with your apathetic attitude and myopic perspective on politics.
It's wild that people think they have more ability to change the minds of millions of disconnected voters than the one guy who wants their votes and whose job it is to respond to public sentiment.
Forget which side you think is wronger in their thinking. Trying to individually argue voters into compliance is pushing against the ocean.
On any scale. Changing one mind who you know how to contact, even if they might ignore you, is easier than changing (or even contacting) millions. This idea that you're all going to get together and yell at all the "bad" voters that are upset over a US funded genocide in election-meaningful numbers is pure nonsense. And that's ignoring that yelling at people to support your team generally doesn't work.
Can we be at least a little nicer about the point you're making? Poor form to assume bad faith when anyone with a heart wants Biden doing more. The problem is that Israel is deliberately forcing Biden to eat shit on this issue because guess what, Bibi has every reason to prefer Trump in 2024.
Using the phrase ' "genocide" claimers' immediately discredits the discussion as a valid one. People dying everyday under the pretense of being Palestinian is not something to minimize. Naivete is not realizing the true devastation going on over there and the actions of Biden haven't done much to stop and reverse that. We, as a country, are funding that and its difficult for those against this battle to come to terms with the lack of power we have. We need to hold our politicians accountable. I fully agree Trump is a giant POS and wouldn't be a good alternative. The thing you have to be able to meet others with though is that Biden didn't come through for us even when we, in mass, told him he's wrong. Thats costly and him relying on indestructibility is going to likely show in the polls. Have a genuine conversation if you really want to sway votes
It's a serious problem with leaders this old, they think they know better than us. At a time of change in history, elders aren't necessarily the best guides.
That dude, zerog_bandit, has repeatedly done genocide denial and justification.
I think most US voters on here know that Trump will be significantly worse than Biden on Israel. Both candidates are pro-genocide, but at least Biden and Dems can be pressured to change. Not to mention that Trump wants to ramp up domestic fascism too.
Unfortunately there are more nefarious forces that intend to sow defeatism and apathy. I had one such buffoon tell me they're voting 3rd party. Don't fall for this garbage.
Nah, he's just publicly gone on the record as being grossly Islamophobic and pro-Israel. I wonder how people got the impression he would ratchet up the violence in Gaza.
He just said Israel should finish the problem and that he'll ban Palestinians from USA, but surely that says nothing about his opinions on the matter? Right? Right?
Can you quote instead? I'm referring to this article, since that's what have I responded to. The headline is clickbait and we should be better than it.
The biggest concern he's showing is the PR problem for Israel. If he cared about the Palestinians when he noted Israel is losing support he wouldn't have pledged to ban them from USA.
Trump pardoned literal war criminals, sold weapons to Israel too, and forced through a sale of weapons to Saudis too. You're acting as if the world is black and white, with no scales
This really shouldn't be surprising. The man has signalled and announced his desire to shoot first and ask questions later at the slightest provocation. He's also very vocally pro-Israel. Anybody crowing about "Genocide Joe" is a bad actor intentionally trying to confuse the discourse with bullshit noise. There is no ethical vote except for Biden. Every single US president has been pro-Israel, so just drop that argument and start focussing on how to materially improve living conditions of actual Americans.
True, just a professional fascist swamp dweller for the last decade plus change:
Before 2014, Griffin wrote articles for her father's far-right website WorldNetDaily, where she served as a "special Washington correspondent for WND."[7][6] In 2010, Griffin was a media intern for Congressman Tom McClintock and began a one-year position as an associate producer on The Laura Ingraham Show.[11] In the 2012 Presidential election cycle, Griffin was the spokesperson for the College Republican National Committee, traveling the country discussing the youth vote. In 2014, she was named Press Secretary for Congressman Mark Meadows; she was later named as his Communications Director. She went on to work as the Communications Director for the Freedom Caucus in the U.S. House of Representatives, serving under Jim Jordan and Mark Meadows.[12]
