curiousaur ,

It's not unreasonable to draw a hard line at genocide.

PugJesus ,
@PugJesus@lemmy.world avatar

"Say NO to passive acquiescence to genocide! Say YES to active support of genocide!"

Great. Thanks for the hard line.

curiousaur ,

You think giving billions in weapons and ammo to continue the genocide is passive?

Wilzax ,

It is when you're not making any attempt at harm reduction.

ZombiFrancis ,

It is to those who have willfully abdicated their democratic right to protest and participate.

RandomGuy79 ,

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

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  • curiousaur ,

    How does that boot taste?

    jonne ,

    There's still Armenians everywhere too, and Jews for that matter. Just because you didn't get them all doesn't mean you didn't commit a genocide. This is just a ridiculous point.

    ZombiFrancis ,

    If the issue of genocide isn't listened to what indication is there any of those other issues will be?

    Something to think about--and what many of these college kids who are likely only able to vote for the first time are experiencing.

    PhlubbaDubba ,

    If genocide is the only thing you'll listen to then you'll be the last person anyone facing all the rest will consider an ally until their problems escalate to genocide.

    rockSlayer ,

    I'm sorry, what? I run in anarchist circles. Most that I have met would rather see Cornel win. If Trump won, they're going to be the "armed antifa" showing up to protect drag story hours.

    Honytawk ,

    I admire third party voters in the US, trying to bring down the 2 party system.

    The thing is that unlike previous elections, this one could actually break down democracy.

    Trump is going even more insane than previous elections, or even during his time in office. Calling himself "dictator for a day". All so if he gets elected, he can just pardon himself and get rid of the huge amounts of criminal charges. He doesn't care who he has to step on to achieve this.

    All to the delight of Putin of course, it is widely known how deep Trump is in his pocket. He backs Trump so Trump can get the US to retreat from NATO, and destabilise Europe and the US so he can war further in all the Slavic countries that he considers USSR territories without issue.

    That is also why we encounter so many Russia bots and shills. To make it seem the "genocide joe" issue is much bigger than it actually is.

    I'd love for Biden to change his stance on sending Israel weapons, but not if it means increasing the chance of WW3.

    And don't kid yourself, WW3 will inch closer if Trump gets reelected.

    uienia ,

    I admire third party voters in the US, trying to bring down the 2 party system.

    It is a pretty misinformed attempt, considering that voting for a third party will never bring down the US 2 party system. It will at best replace one of the 2 parties with another party. The 2 party system is baked into the US political system on account of its election laws, and it will take some major revisions of the US constitution to change that to something else.

    Jentu ,

    That’s essentially what happened with the Whigs. The leadership decided that they weren’t going to decide one way or another on a strong stance for/against slavery, ignoring the pleading of their own constituents. So the anti slavery ex-Whigs made Lincoln’s Republican Party and the Whigs never recovered.

    So not only is biden likely handing the election to trump, the moral outcry that is being ignored might kill the Democratic Party for good.

    jj4211 ,

    On point except not sure the Constitution has to change.

    For example Alaska implemented ranked choice voting, and states have implemented proportional allotment.

    frostysauce ,

    The only way to bring down the two party system in the US is to eliminate first past the post voting.

    splonglo ,

    You SHOULD vote for Joe, but fucking hell this is HIS fault. Voters are a swirling mass of people. It might as well be fluid dynamics. Bad policies and apathy WILL affect support. It's going to. You can't stop it. You can't shame it back again either. You can't win back tent guy's vote by blaming him for Joe Biden's failures.

    franklin , (edited )
    @franklin@lemmy.world avatar

    The most recent weapon shipment is actually on Congress, Joe Biden didn't want to send it and was forced by a congressional resolution led by Republicans because they know people won't look into it and the president will take the fall out.

    I left some resources to back up these claims in a previous comment .

    splonglo ,

    That sounds like a classic Republican thing to do and I don't doubt it. But it's a small detail. Biden's soft touch has allowed Netenyahu to commit war crimes without a second thought throughout this whole thing.

    answersplease77 ,

    Off course they are busy with such issue.

    How much of an issue would it be if it was you running away with your family from place to another, starving and getting bombed, to realize the next morning, that you have lost your mom and have to burry your sister, your kids are under the rubble, one is limpless for life now, another is dead, another still missing.

    How would you feel if the people selling and enabling your genocide, or the people who have the power to step in and help, are discussing school lunch and economy issues, while yours are non-existant. I bet you cannot afford to give half a fuck about the economy, or college tuition, or housing affordability, or nothing else.

    War and genocide cannot simply be dissmissed as another issue. This issue is literally life and death, pain and torture, and every decision that causes it to happen is everything of someone's life.

    jupiter_jazz ,

    Yeah I'm sure Trump will fix it.

    helpmyusernamewontfi ,

    missed the ball completely

    samus12345 ,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    Both parties support Israel. Voting will not prevent the genocide regardless of who you vote for or if you don't vote at all. But a whole host of other issues that affect peoples' lives WILL be affected by that choice. So rather than focus on what you have zero control over as far as voting goes, focus on what you do.

    TempermentalAnomaly ,

    Why doesn't she have a sign that says "Stop genocide in Palestine"?

    spujb ,

    because the two are mutually exclusive and everyone in the pro-Palestine movement is going to boycott the vote, duh

    /s

    sozesoze ,

    I don't get this Schrödingers democracy thing here. The American people should save democracy by voting for Biden to stop Trump. But they can't make demands against the pro-Israeli positions of Biden.
    You aren't even in the real election phase, the election is in six months, and people can't criticize or demand better action from their own elected president. Hell, I've seen these kinds of memes since the primaries, which are meaningless for Bidens candidacy except that you can send signals that you maybe have to change your course. But nothing has changed at all since then either, only empty words. How is this democratic then?

    I'm not even saying that Biden has to do everything the most radical people on the pro-Palestine side demand. But Biden doesn't even try to find a compromise. He could maybe leverage the power that the American government has over Israel to stop the bombing of Gaza. If he feels brave he could even demand the stop on more settlements.

    WhatAmLemmy ,

    It's the Schrodingers democracy of the shrodingers "free" world we live in — Politics is pay to play, corporations are people and both can donate unlimited money, wealth equality is worse than the guilded age, but we totally have "democracy" bro. Also you should shut up and support a genocide because we're fighting to prevent the fascists from taking power, which will surely lead to genocide... Only worse!

    This is the kind of discourse you get with a 2 party system ruled by a corporatocracy masquarading as a democracy — the propagandized neoliberal drones are most of the comments you read. Ultimately vote for Biden, because the alternative is literal Christian fascist dictatorship, but give Biden and neoliberals hell; make them believe they're gonna lose all the way to voting day.

    archomrade ,

    give Biden and neoliberals hell; make them believe they're gonna lose all the way to voting day

    I agree with this, but people really need to stop qualifying every critique with their intent to vote for him anyway. Biden has already been saying he doesn't believe his polling numbers are real (why liberals aren't panicking about that indifference is beyond me), we really can't be sending mixed signals here.

    He risks losing if he doesn't change course, full stop. He needs to know that risk is real.

    Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
    @Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

    Counterpoint: Single issue voters got Roe overturned

    Bakkoda ,
    @Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works avatar

    All depends on what your goal is.

    return2ozma ,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    I guess Biden better... Earn more votes.

    TrickDacy ,

    So you're saying voters have no power, only politicians. Cool.

    PhlubbaDubba ,

    If the other guy being a fascist running on a platform of doing fascism isn't enough for you to snap into line, you're a fascist trying to feel moral about being a fascist.

    Trump is denying the existence of the 13th and 19th amendments now and you're actually still on about how politicians should have to "earn your vote?"

    Tell me you're white without telling me you're white.

    PugJesus ,
    @PugJesus@lemmy.world avatar

    If the other guy being a fascist running on a platform of doing fascism isn’t enough for you to snap into line, you’re a fascist trying to feel moral about being a fascist.

    No no, you don't get it, if we let fascism win this time, everything will be better NEXT time!

    franklin , (edited )
    @franklin@lemmy.world avatar

    Write your congressman if they are one of the members that forced the weapon shipments to restart.

    In this case Joe Biden did not want to restart shipments but was forced by a Congressional resolution.

    Here is a Reuters article covering the resolution, here is the house press release, here is the Congressional voting record.

    null ,
    @null@slrpnk.net avatar

    Thanks for sharing this. I was absolutely shitting on Biden for this move, so I'm spreading this wherever I spread that.

    Mea culpa for sure.

    franklin ,
    @franklin@lemmy.world avatar

    It's alright, we're all learning.

    Strawberry ,

    This was a house vote, not a veto-overriding vote from both the house and senate. It did not force biden to do anything

    franklin ,
    @franklin@lemmy.world avatar

    Incorrect, he was holding back shipments purposefully, this forces shipments to begin again and while he could veto it given the overwhelming support it would have bought a couple days at best and if you read both of those articles it's very clear that that would have been the outcome.

    Strawberry , (edited )

    The act is not expected to become law, but its passage underscored the deep U.S. election-year divide over Israel policy

    "It is not a serious effort at legislation, which is why some of the most pro-Israel members of the House Democratic caucus will be voting no," House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries told a news conference before the vote.

    This was just a house vote, you know it would need to pass the senate too before a veto and it didn't even win with a veto-overriding majority in the house.. Really not sure where you're getting the idea that this actually forces Biden's hand in any way

    franklin ,
    @franklin@lemmy.world avatar

    Engage with politics at the Congressional and local level. The biggest reason Biden refuses to change his stance because Congress and a majority of his constituency still supports it.

    So please continue to protest and engage your congressman and local officials. We can change this but we need action.

    jonne ,

    So like if you're a student you should engage with the University admin to let your stance known, potentially asking them to stop investing endowment money with weapons manufacturers and Israeli surveillance startups?

    ZombiFrancis ,

    Zionists and warmongers sure don't want you doing that.

    franklin , (edited )
    @franklin@lemmy.world avatar

    Write your congressman if they are one of the members that forced the weapon shipments to restart.

    In this case Joe Biden did not want to restart shipments but was forced by a Congressional resolution.

    Here is a Reuters article covering the resolution, here is the house press release, here is the Congressional voting record.

    ZombiFrancis ,

    34 Senate races in 2024. 20 are held by Democrats and 3 are Democratic-caucusing Independents. Eight of those 23 are fairly close--toss-ups even.

    Every one of those Democratic senate candidates are going to have to be carrying Biden's water on this one.

    madeinthebackseat ,

    The fundamental goal of anybody supporting democracy has to be removing the influence of money from politics. It is at the core of every issue.

    The path of getting there is not known, but anything accomplished without that goal in mind is of lesser importance.

    Remove money from the political process and all ships will rise.

    Voting or not voting without that concern in mind has potentially devastating consequences to your future.

    Godric OP ,

    I totally agree, how do you think we should vote this election cycle to bring that future about?

    madeinthebackseat ,

    I think there's a non-zero probability that American democracy ends with Trump, and there's very little benefit gained by a 2nd Trump presidency either way.

    Biden buys the youth more time to get organized and start restructuring the country. But the youth has to get their shit together, pick better candidates, and vote.

    We are at the end of an era, and you can toss out much of the conventional thinking from the past 50 - 70 years. When the millennials and Gen Z finally come together in force they will shape the country how they see fit. The boomer/silent gen majority that we were stuck with for 50 years is gone - all the younger generations have to do is vote for their priorities.

    This will happen in one of the next 3 major elections purely due to numbers.

    Lastly, the youth needs to understand that voting is about aligning the trajectory of the leadership as closely with your values as possible. You are making decisions now that have long term effects on your quality of life.

    anticolonialist ,

    “Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.”
    ― Lucy Parsons

    Land_Strider ,

    With how one-sided and not-thought-out-well this comic is, I can't help but come with this point:

    Does the lady liberty side not not concerned about the genocide they are supporting? I mean, if you assume the protesters focused against the genocide their own government has a great part in as not caring about anything while they are protesting this one, the most extreme human suffering, issue with a lot of burning passion it deserves and not caring about other things, you have to look at the other side and see they have no cards against this genocide.

    Are multi-issue voters okay with funding genocide as long as their own rights are not infringed upon?

    spujb ,

    Okay making a top level comment after quite a bit of research.

    The artist of this cartoon has literally never expressed criticism of the US’s participation in genocide nor apartheid—nor even of the involvement of the military-industrial complex—even once since October 7.

    So if this post comes off as excessively patronizing to some, there may be a reason for that, as the tone here is not all that different from the rest of the guy’s work.

    That does not mean that there is no valid concern from the artist here. Whatever your plans are for November, a Trump win is going to result in some non-zero excess harm against the vulnerable and the environment over what would be involved in a Biden win in the short run—that much most of us can agree on.

    But the comic does this point in such a fucking tone deaf way? like hawt damn.

    Godric OP ,

    I personally interpered the comic as a criticism of people vowing to vote third party, not a criticism of people protesting Gaza as a whole. I hate what Isreal is doing in Gaza, but I'm not going to throw my vote away on a third parry this election when Trump would make everything including Gaza so much worse.

    More of the artist's work concerning Gaza:

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/9c63d411-45b0-4aef-8187-76a7472e8625.png

    spujb ,

    i hear you! but this one isn’t critical of US complicity either.

    obviously i cannot know the artist’s intentions, but an analysis of their repertoire can give an indication as to why the “i’m busy” comic felt so condescending and bad faith

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