What Would Jesus Do? ( lemmy.world )

"Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you."

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205%3A1-6&version=NIV

MilitantVegan ,

The scene in the temple is recently one of the central plot points of the new documentary, Christspiracy. The movie as a whole is a little over-sensationalized in framing their views as some kind of grand church cover-up. But some of their arguments about archeological evidence and scriptural translation differences make for interesting food for thought.

Basically they argue that the temple at that time was a big slaughterhouse, and that the "thieves" Jesus whipped could more accurately be translated as "murderers".

https://christspiracy.com/

h3mlocke ,
@h3mlocke@lemm.ee avatar

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

I guess some of yall down in the comments need this link

Etterra ,

Better to upgrade to the jawbone of an ass.

sabin ,

Lol no. If jesus was alive today he'd be telling you that poor people nowadays live exceptional lives and should be complacent in having their lives exploited. Jesus did not free slaves- he only cured them so they could keep providing capital to their masters.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The problem is- Jesus didn't chase the people behind the money changers out of the temple with a whip, it was the low-level workers he attacked. While talking about, as you quote, how luxurious their lives were.

Jesus was doing the Batman thing- beating up on low-level criminals while leaving the real people in charge behind the scenes around.

FiniteBanjo ,

That looks like the panel from the 2008-2009 banking and FTC regulation reform.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

your gold is corroded

Must not be real gold. Those scammy, money pending bastards...

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

Banks do manipulate precious metals prices through fake supply numbers. It's virtual, though, so hard to imagine corrosion there. Just corruption.

explodicle ,

Don't they have audits?

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

If they do then they're not very effective: https://www.businessinsider.com/jpmorgans-nickel-bags-turned-out-to-filled-with-stones-2023-3

Numbers can always be played with and manipulation can take many forms, not just in supply but also just with trading: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/jpmorgan-chase-co-agrees-pay-920-million-connection-schemes-defraud-precious-metals-and-us

boatsnhos931 ,

Violent Jesus is my fav

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Going to be crazy when the NYPD bomb Jesus's house and kill his family in a SWAT raid.

RealFknNito ,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

Must be exhausting thinking every system you don't directly control is out to exploit, harm, and kill you.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

every system you don’t directly control

I don't have to directly control it. I just need it to not instantly shoot my dog.

RGB3x3 ,

The NYPD has shot my dog like 6 times already this year.

Good thing my dog is a hellhound.

trashgirlfriend ,

This is the type of motherfucker which will at the same time say this and "well, what do you expect, life is just that way" when someone points out the way a system exploits, harms, or kills anyone.

Tom_Hanx_Hail_Satan ,
@Tom_Hanx_Hail_Satan@lemmy.ca avatar

Must be exhausting to know you in real life.

RealFknNito ,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

Nah, I don't pretend I'm a victim to everything that doesn't work out for me.

Tom_Hanx_Hail_Satan ,
@Tom_Hanx_Hail_Satan@lemmy.ca avatar

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying you thinking other people are, makes you an asshole.

RealFknNito ,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

Calling out victims for being victims just keeps them as victims so I don't know what you're bitching about. This was their desired outcome. I have zero patience for people like them and even less for people who defend them. Fuck off.

Tom_Hanx_Hail_Satan ,
@Tom_Hanx_Hail_Satan@lemmy.ca avatar

Original comment:

"Going to be crazy when the NYPD bomb Jesus's house and kill his family in a SWAT raid."

You insisting on that joke is someone making themselves the victim of something is fucking stupid. You. Stupid. Piece. Of. Shit.

Tom_Hanx_Hail_Satan ,
@Tom_Hanx_Hail_Satan@lemmy.ca avatar

You out of patience yet? You're scary I'm scared.

h3mlocke ,
@h3mlocke@lemm.ee avatar

Congrats to you 🥳

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

It's actually pretty easy to understand Class Dynamics and how they shape society, Materialism makes understanding a turbulent world much easier.

merari42 ,
@merari42@lemmy.world avatar

I hear he has a history of problems with the state. he was literally crucified.

grue ,

In plaintext form, for your convenience:

Q: WWJD?
A: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

RGB3x3 ,

Jesus: LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!

Nobody ,

Based and Christ-pilled

masquenox ,

Turning Christians into anti-capitalists is a very easy thing - they were literally taught the logic of anti-capitalism from birth.

Yet the left prefers edgelord atheism because reasons.

zloubida ,
@zloubida@lemmy.world avatar

I'm a Christian and I approve.

ganksy ,
@ganksy@lemmy.world avatar

Atheism is just something I wear. It mostly revolves around being rational. Using more bullshit because it's more effective kind of defeats the point of it all. I don't have a problem with speaking to someone in their own terms. Proselytizing atheism just falls on dead ears and I don't care what someone else believes as long as I don't have to live by it.

masquenox ,

It mostly revolves around being rational.

I have yet to meet a "rational" atheist. Or, at least, an atheist that's any more rational than a religious person.

Proselytizing atheism just falls on dead ears

Yeah... I wonder why.

kboy101222 ,

C'mon down here to the south and experience the wonderful world of preachers straight up preaching conspiracies instead of the Bible! And their followers eating that shit up!

masquenox ,

I'm already south. Way, way south.

frezik ,

Mentally, physically, or both?

masquenox ,

I'm not sure what you mean... please do explain.

frezik ,

Nah, I think you just proved my point for me.

masquenox ,

Sooo... no explanation?

EldritchFeminity ,

Who pissed in your Cheerios?

And that does not describe US Christianity. Most of the regressives haven't ever read the bible.

masquenox ,

And that does not describe US Christianity.

It hasn't described "Christianity Inc." since the time of Constantine. You'd think leftists would have a problem with that... but all I've seen the left do is encourage it.

Talking about shooting yourself in the foot.

Most of the regressives haven’t ever read the bible.

No. But their mothers have.

Catoblepas ,

The idea that “the left” has any influence on mainstream American Christianity is completely divorced from reality.

masquenox ,

The idea that “the left” has any influence on mainstream American Christianity

I never said it did. Maybe you should ask yourself why the left has completely surrendered religion to the right - you know... considering that religion happens to be important to a large part of the working class and all.

mightyfoolish ,

why the left has completely surrendered religion

Yes, this is a huge problem in modern day society. You're good point could do without all of the name calling.

People here do agree with you that Jesus's teachings have laid out some anticapitalist seeds (see supply side Jesus to see a parody of capitalism Jesus) but with your angry debate style it took me several of your posts to get your point.

masquenox ,

People here do agree with you that Jesus’s teachings have laid out some anticapitalist seeds

Oh, I'd say that the new testament does a bit more than that.

You’re good point could do without all of the name calling.

I take it you've never dealt with too many fundamentalist atheists?

mightyfoolish ,

I take it you’ve never dealt with too many fundamentalist atheists?

Calling all of a group irrational is not how to deal with some of the group. Your mannerisms is a problem. If someone else is giving you an issue, report it. Don't become the problem for the sake of an internet debate where almost no one changes their opinions.

masquenox ,

Calling all of a group irrational is not how to deal with some of the group.

You mean... like atheists do?

internet debate where almost no one changes their opinions.

That's not the point of internet debate.

If someone else is giving you an issue, report it.

Don't be naive.

frezik ,

Nothing was surrendered. The right fought for decades to get it. Go back a century and a huge chunk of pastors either describe themselves as socialist or lean towards it. The first attempts at the Prosperity Gospel were laughed off as being obviously self serving. It wasn't until the 70s that they found a formula that worked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyHd6wEC4IE

masquenox ,

Never been too keen on BtB - the "Great Man" fallacy cuts both ways. Maybe I'll give it a try.

I despise the "prosperity" grifters as much as anyone - but let's not pretend that establishment religion was any kind of left before they arrived on the scene. The Catholic church was literally the face of right-wing ideology for centuries (and still has the hidden gold reserves to prove it), and WASP ideology is still one of the driving forces behind white supremacism to this day.

I know what you're trying to say - this is the part where establishment Christianity went explicitly capitalist - but the fact that establishment Christianity was perfectly servile to the status quo before made this inevitable no matter how many people laughed it off initially.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

the left prefers edgelord atheism

Imagine thinking Sam Harris is a Leftist.

masquenox ,

Imagine capitalizing the word leftist for no good reason whatsoever.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

You don't have a membership card to The Leftist organization? You're not paying dues to that singular, discrete, monolithic organization that determines everything not Centrist or Rightward?

makyo ,

Most Christians missed that part of scripture - they'd freak out if you told them Jesus was a communist

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

This also missed the parts that say "love thy neighbor" and that vengeance is God's domain alone ("Vengeance is mine.")

Tom_Hanx_Hail_Satan ,
@Tom_Hanx_Hail_Satan@lemmy.ca avatar

Yet the left prefers edgelord atheism because reasons.<

This sentence just outed you as a 15 year old.

masquenox ,

Do you have a problem with 15-year olds?

Your lawn is not as impressive as you think it is.

jkrtn ,

Christians don't actually learn anything logical. They are brainwashed from a young age and trained to be obedient.

If they actually thought about what their book said, they wouldn't vote for a dude who is constantly stealing, committing adultery, and bearing false witness.

masquenox ,

They are brainwashed from a young age and trained to be obedient.

I could say that about a lot of things - nationalism, liberalism, capitalism, colonialism, white supremacism, individualism - yet I see lots of these supposedly "logical" atheists unquestioningly embracing those.

If they actually thought about what their book said,

Soooo... it's not the book then - is it?

jkrtn ,

Right, every group has irrational people and some believe awful garbage. Now go get us a demographic breakdown with odds of being Christian compared to not religious for white supremacists, etc.

You said it yourself, the teachings from their literal god lean pretty far left, but they're not a core foundational group of leftists. That's because from childhood they are brainwashed and trained to believe contradictory delusions.

If they actually thought about their religion, or had any initiative of their own, they wouldn't need to be approached by leftists, they would be the leftists approaching others.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Atheism gains when people turn to science over faith, and seek to truly understand the world around them.

masquenox ,

Atheism gains when people turn to science

There's nothing "scientific" about atheism.

and seek to truly understand the world around them.

They do? They don't even understand religion - and it's literally one of the easiest things to study in our society.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Atheism is scientific. It rejects unknowns until proven. Atheism is not a gnostic worship of nothingness, but a rejection of accepting religions as fact.

Atheists often understand religion more than many religious people, so you need to explain just what you mean by this. What are Atheists not getting?

chiliedogg ,

Not who you're replying to, but I'll attempt a diplomatic answer.

Many (not all) atheists and theists alike lack the capacity to separate fact and faith in their worldviews, and see them as conflicting with one another.

But some people see them as entirety separate realms that do not interact. For us science and fact is based on knowledge and impiricism, whereas faith is based on the unknowable.

Thatbis, something cannot be known AND believed. If it can be known, it's in the realm of science. If it cannot be known it is the realm of faith. They don't conflict because they are entirely separate, and pitting them against each other is like arguing about the conflict between Wayne Gretsky and Renee Descartes.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

It's more that Theists attack Atheists for believing absolutely in nothing, instead of not believing anything unproven.

chiliedogg ,

And there's the disconnect. If it can be proven it can't be believed.

If you don't believe in something unproven, then you don't believe in anything at all.

And that's fine, by the way.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

You're taking statements beyond their logical extremes, ad absurdum. You can believe facts that have moumtains of evidence, and not believe stories with no evidence, and be perfectly rational and believe in things.

chiliedogg ,

Belief is accepting something without evidence. If you have evidence, belief isn't necessary, because you know it.

Saying you won't accept anything without evidence is saying you don't hold any beliefs at all. But nobody is really like that. Atheists believe all kinds of things.

The part that trips people up is when something is unknown but knowable. That is where someone can have belief without having faith.

Faith is for stuff that is not and never can be empirically known.

masquenox ,

Atheism is scientific.

No. It isn't.

It rejects unknowns until proven.

No. It doesn't. Science embraces the unknown. If it rejects the unknown, it is committing the same anti-scientific logic atheists accuse religious people of committing.

Atheism is not a gnostic worship of nothingness

Nope. It is an irrational fetishization of something's non-existence.

Atheists often understand religion more than many religious people,

Good thing you told me... I would never have been able to tell by all the atheist shittakes I see.

What are Atheists not getting?

Is it really this difficult? Are there no religious people in your family?

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Wow, that was certainly a comment!

Science does not embrace the unknown, it pokes, prods, and seeks to turn the unknown into the known via the scientific method. It rejects the unproven and untested until confirmed tested and proven.

Atheism is not believing that fairies exist until the existence of fairies is proven, it is not "fetishizing something's non-existence," lmao. Atheism is the default state of humanity brought up in an environment with a strong emphasis on the scientific method.

Yes, I do have religious family members. None of them are particularly technically minded, and usually use their faith as a weapon to oppress trans people. Please answer my question instead of gesturing vaguely, what are Atheists not getting that theists do?

masquenox ,

Science does not embrace the unknown,

If it didn't it would discover absolutely nothing of any value.

Science does not treat the unknown as an enemy. That's how a colonizer sees the world - not a scientist.

it is not “fetishizing something’s non-existence,”

Really? There is absolutely nothing else to atheism, is there? You try to conflate science with atheism - but you fail abysmally because there is absolutely nothing about the scientific method that is incompatible with any religion anywhere.

To try and "substitute" religion with "science" is anti-scientific because science is not religion. I'm starting to get the idea that a lot of atheists don't have a very good grip on what the scientific method actually entails.

Atheism is the default state of humanity

LOL! And your proof of this is what?

Where is your scientific method now? Did you forget it in your other lab-coat, perhaps?

Yes, I do have religious family members.

So you think the only reason your family members are religious is to opress transgender folks?

None of them are particularly technically minded,

What the hell does "technically minded" mean? Do they not know how to turn on a blender, perhaps?

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

I never said science treats the unknown as an enemy, science pokes at the unknown via the scientific method to turn it into known. You do not see scientists embracing Lord of the Rings as history.

Religion is as of now unproven. Atheism is the default stance, once a religion is proven then atheism will be no more. Atheism is the default stance because it is the absence of unproven claims.

No, I believe my family is religious because they were brought up religious, and the outcome of this is opression of trans people and women.

Technically-minded meaning trained and educated on technical or other scientific topics, as opposed to business, marketing, accounting, etc.

masquenox ,

I never said science treats the unknown as an enemy

Really? You're not really thinking about what it is you're actually saying, are you?

science pokes at the unknown via the scientific method to turn it into known.

I guess it's no mystery why the atheism expressed on here sounds so downright liberal - the unknown can only make sense to you once it's dead.

Religion is as of now unproven.

Religion requires no proof. It hasn't required any proof since the glaciers retreated, and it won't require any proof as long as humanity exists.

Atheists have been attacking religion at it's strongest point for a few centuries now (as you just did)... it seems even the oldest method of scientific rigor - trial and error - completely escapes atheists. Can we trust you with something as complicated as a Bunsen burner, then?

Atheism is the default stance,

Your religion is failing you - it requires proof, remember?

But then, again... I'm not an all-knowing technocrat - oops, sorry, I meant to say ,"technically-minded person". I could be wrong - there could very well be evidence for these "default atheist" communities and societies in anthropology if that truly is the "human default" as you claim.

Can you provide such?

I believe my family is religious because they were brought up religious,

So you are claiming that people get nothing from religion? They are merely automatons who follow their (constantly alleged) "brainwashing?"

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

No, I never once took the strawman claim you've been claiming I have, intentionally or unintentionally on your part. Science seeks to understand the unknown, it isn't about accepting unknowns as knowns. Hence the scientific method.

Science isn't liberal, it's very leftist: the search for explanations and known laws of material reality. That's Materialism! Material conditions guide people's behaviors and science in general, not vague ideas.

If "Religion requires no proof" is the crux of your argument, then it's the same as saying "Religion is a fairy tale," without proof it cannot be known to exist, and is thus a hypothesis without much weight. I never suggested trial and error was a problem, but if you're claiming Religion itself is mere trial and error, as though scientists dream up absurd claims and test them, rather than building upon previous knowledge, that is also absurd.

Being aware of the scientific method is not technocracy, but education. That's it. Stop playing the elitist card, it isn't working.

A child raised without religion will call no god. Religion is taught, thus atheism, the lack of religon, is the default.

I believe my family is religious because it is both all they have been taught, and is convenient for them to believe, as they would face ostracism from their own family members and people like you for questioning it. I speak from personal experience, thank you.

masquenox ,

it isn’t about accepting unknowns as knowns.

So far, that's the only strawman argument applied here... and it's purely yours.

Science isn’t liberal, it’s very leftist:

No, science isn't liberal... or leftist. Neither is materialism - there is no rule that says a right-winger cannot apply a materialist analysis. We even have a term for that - it's called "Vulgar Marxism." And, as atheism is thoroughly anti-scientific, your attempt to reframe the conversation in this manner is inane.

If “Religion requires no proof” is the crux of your argument, then it’s the same as saying “Religion is a fairy tale,”

And? Do you now have a problem with fairy tales, too?

Me telling you something you should already have known isn't the crux of anything.

I never suggested trial and error was a problem,

No you didn't. I suggested that your brand of atheism has demonstrated a fundamental weakness in applying it - and you certainly don't seem to be improving in that regard.

but if you’re claiming Religion itself is mere trial and error

Again... no I didn't. As I've tried to explain to you before... science is not religion. Why would religion require trial and error?

Stop playing the elitist card, it isn’t working.

This you?

Technically-minded meaning trained and educated on technical or other scientific topics, as opposed to business, marketing, accounting, etc.

I could have sworn that was you...

A child raised without religion will call no god.

Oh? And how certain are you that such a child would not merely invent one? It's very easy to check - if what you say is true, anthropology books will be full of examples of such.

Or perhaps you think anthropology is beneath a "technically-minded person" such as yourself?

because it is both all they have been taught, and is convenient for them to believe, as they would face ostracism from their own family members and people like you for questioning it.

That's it? That's what people have been doing for thousands of years? You sound neither certain nor knowledgable about the reasons - are you sure these vague hypotheses of yours has any weight?

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

No, you have pretended I said Science hates the unknown and treats it like an enemy, which is of course a strawman.

Not believing in fairy tales is scientific. Applying the scientific method to better understand the world is scientific. Materialism, over idealism, is scientific. Atheism is in line with all of these, it is the lack of a belief in unproven hypothesis until proven, whereas Religion is in conflict with this.

Fairy tales are great stories often time, just like religion, but treating them as reality without basis is anti-science.

I wasn't being elitist when I said my family isn't technically minded, I was pointing out that they have not studied science nor have they practically applied the scientific method. That's like saying trusting climate scientists over climate change deniers is elitist. Learning and education is the foundation of which new knowledge can be found.

If a child invents a god, as you say, why would you assume it to be fact? Children also make imaginary friends, and lose them over time. This does not make these imaginary friends material reality.

More strawman bullshit claiming I think myself above anthropology, you can only cling to strawman because you have no logical footing. I never even claimed I myself was technically minded, why do you assume I believe myself to be the arbiter of the scientific method? Because you seek to slander.

Yes. That is indeed what people have been doing for thousands of years, and is why religion falls out of favor and fervor over time, as we learn more about the world.

You clearly only wish to lie and slander, and have no arguments, at all, outside of such, so you can kindly stop bothering.

masquenox ,

Not believing in fairy tales is scientific.

LOL! Need some help getting out of that rabbit hole you've dug for yourself?

Materialism, over idealism, is scientific.

Ooooh... Trotsky must be so proud.

Atheism is in line with all of these,

Good thing you told me... your discourse certainly wouldn't have.

but treating them as reality without basis is anti-science.

I guess treating false binaries as incontestable truth based on pure assumption is a regular thing with you atheists, huh?

I wasn’t being elitist when I said my family isn’t technically minded,

Then why did you bring it up?

If a child invents a god, as you say, why would you assume it to be fact?

I didn't, genius - you were the one who precluded the possibility that the hypothetical child in your hypothesis would shoot your hypothesis in the foot... I merely pointed it out.

More strawman bullshit claiming I think myself above anthropology,

Then why are you afraid of proving your hypothesis? If humans are so terrible at inventing gods as your hypothesis requires us to be, it should be historically evident, shouldn't it? In fact... I'd go so far as to say that the existence of religion itself should be impossible - if your hypothesis has any weight to it, that is.

That is indeed what people have been doing for thousands of years

Oh, thank goodness for the "enlightened atheists!" Thousands of years navigating existence means nothing now that the armchair geniuses has shown up to show us the correct way of doing so!

LOL!

Your atheism doesn't just smack of liberalism - it's starting to sound downright white.

h3mlocke ,
@h3mlocke@lemm.ee avatar

Mf doesn't know what atheism means, but is trying to pretend they do, its so cute

masquenox ,

Once an edgelord always an edgelord, huh? Is this yet more of that (supposed) "atheist rationalism" I've heard so much about?

You're failing as hard as all the others - you just managed it a lot faster.

h3mlocke ,
@h3mlocke@lemm.ee avatar

I'm more of an agnostic anyways 😎

And Buddhism is really cool

masquenox ,

And Buddhism is really cool

And what do you know about Buddhism?

h3mlocke ,
@h3mlocke@lemm.ee avatar

Oh im no expert, I've been studying it on and off for 20 years tho 😅. Mainly just meditation and mindfulness seem to be really helpful for my adhd riddled brain...

menemen ,
@menemen@lemmy.world avatar

You might be interested in Liberation theology. In short, the US didn't like them and started quite the thing in El Salvador...

masquenox ,

I am aware of Liberation theology. I am also aware of how it was crushed - and the ones who did the crushing.

h3mlocke , (edited )
@h3mlocke@lemm.ee avatar

Holy shit, did mommy leave her computer unlocked?

masquenox ,

I suggest you wipe your browsing history before she comes back... I'm not one to kink shame, but I can't speak for her.

disguy_ovahea , (edited )

Little known fact that Jesus was actually just three kids in a tunic

NovaPrime ,
@NovaPrime@lemmy.ml avatar

If I'm not mistaken, the original name in Aramaic translates to something like "Jesus Christman"

jkrtn ,

Oily Josh

TigrisMorte ,

I look forward to your Ted Talk.

Flax_vert ,

That's tritheism

makyo ,

You haven't heard of the great five-in-one? Father, son, son, son, and holy spirit.

disguy_ovahea , (edited )

Ah yes, the Holy Quinity.

Flax_vert ,

Good thing there's not six...

XTL ,

Stupid sexune deity...

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