Fedigrow

PugJesus , in Lemmy.world community banned people for misinformation on the post complaining about Lemmy.ml instance banning people for misinformation
@PugJesus@lemmy.world avatar

Holy fuck, looking down through, how the hell do you not find these removals reasonable? "Poland forgave the Nazis for genocide, but not the Russians for a bloodless invasion"? A bloodless invasion?! "Poland were the REAL Nazis, the Soviets had to invade them"!? "You're just a racist Nazi Pole"!? What the ever-loving fuck.

Blaze OP ,

For the sake of this discussion, I went back to the 800 comments thread and found the actual exchange on that topic.

It starts here: https://lemmy.world/comment/10475023

Tl:dr: Polish commenter is upset at banned user for

  • categorizing the impact of the Poland invasion by USSR as "bloodless"
  • denying that USSR and Germany were allies
  • pointing out that there were Nazis in Poland

On the other hand, banned users is upset at the Polish commenter for

Before WW2, Poland was pretty antisemitic. In the 1930s, for instance, youth nationalist movements had advocated for "ghetto benches", so Jews couldn't sit with Poles in university classrooms, following growing violence against Jewish university students. Which given the rising tide of antisemitism in Europe, wasn't exactly shocking, but antisemitism did certainly exist in Polish society. It's certainly different than American university antisemitism of the era, which was limited to quotas (which were sometimes only subtly enforced)--Poland didn't have university quotas at all for several years after WW1, but they returned.

During the war, a great deal of the Holocaust was perpetrated and assisted by local collaborators. However, this was much more common in other countries, like Ukraine and Lithuania, than in Poland.

And after the war, there were incidents of antisemitic violence among Poles. The most famous is the Kielce Pogrom. These effectively ensured that survivors would not return, barring any chance at a revival of Jewish life in Eastern Europe post-war.

On this subject, I would highly recommend Antony Polonsky's My Brother's Keeper: Recent Polish Debates on the Holocaust, which is a discussion of essays/articles/etc which were written in the 80s when a flurry of debates/discussions on this subject in Poland occurred.

Reading the whole thread again, there doesn't seem to be much "harassment" as stated in the modlog, as much as a heated debate between the two parties.

From a lemmy.ml user perspective (which I'm not), I could see why they would complain about a political bias against the USSR.

One potential improvement point might be for mods to add historical sources to why they consider a comment misinformation. Also, banning this type of users and removing those comments (and leaving the others) might lead to an echo chamber effect on lemmy.world (mirroring the one on lemmy.ml).

Shyfer ,

Thanks for your even handed analysis btw. I think this analysis seems fair.

Maalus ,

I was the guy that was called a nazi pole in that thread. I posted multiple links to counter the "bloodless invasion" bullcrap which they completely ignored to call me a racist nazi. No response to Katyn for instance. Total stonewalling, like they were having their own conversation that didn't include me.

Blaze OP ,

I learned about the Katyn massacre from your comments. Horrifying.

they completely ignored to call me a racist nazi

Yes, I just read the whole thread again, that was completely unnecessary. I guess they just implied that you hated Russians based on your criticism of USSR actions.

sunzu , (edited )

Anyone who has a border with Russia hates them...

Russia is never reformed its governance that it has inherited from mongols and we see this reflected in their foreign policy today.

awwwyissss ,

The shills don't want a real debate, they want to frustrate, waste time, and distract you from engagement with a real person or in a more visible comment.

Nothing4You , in Lemmy.world community banned people for misinformation on the post complaining about Lemmy.ml instance banning people for misinformation

it should be noted that these bans are community bans, not instance bans. your title makes it look like people are getting instance banned from lemmy.world, while the examples you've shown are about community bans.

if i'm not mistaken, several of the lemmy.ml bans/ban complaints have been about instance bans, which affect all communities on the instance.

Blaze OP ,

Very good point, I just edited.

Mikufan ,
@Mikufan@ani.social avatar

Eh the instance is still liable for this bs.

sunzu ,

Under which law?

Mikufan , (edited )
@Mikufan@ani.social avatar

Digital Service Act.

Funny that you get downvoted for literally mentioning a law wich states that platforms are liable for the shit happening on them... 🤡 🤡 🤡

awwwyissss , in We are now at 48,859 monthly active users vs 51,172 a month ago, decline seems slow but steady. Anything we can do about it?

I think the extremist politics on here drive people away. I don't even tell anyone I use Lemmy because of that.

Hexbear is obviously the worst, but Lemmy.ml is also openly spreading propaganda.

Blaze OP ,

I see where you come from, my usual advice to new joiners is to block hexbear and to avoid news and political communities

awwwyissss ,

It's hard... when a user blocks an instance, the propaganda still shows up when the offending users comment on other instances.

Blaze OP ,

Does it? I thought it muted every user of that instance

canis_majoris ,
@canis_majoris@lemmy.ca avatar

A mute is not the same as an outright block.

Muting effectively just means you don't see the instances posts, but you can see the users comments if they are federated with your instance. For example, I have kbin blocked, but I can still interact with kbin users - when they reply to my comments or posts, which they can still do, I simply just don't get a notification for it.

Dessalines doesn't care about stuff like this. Beehaw has been asking for proper moderation tools forever and effectively just told to get fucked every time.

Blaze OP ,

I see. I guess I just don't go to communities hexbear is interested in

canis_majoris ,
@canis_majoris@lemmy.ca avatar

.ml is basically just as bad.

Most instances are totally defederated from Hexbear. They're not my problem at all. My problem is literally the development team and their willingness to not only accept but further the cause of propaganda through their instance's curated biases.

Blaze OP ,

Hopefully Piefed / Mbin / Sublinks will catch up soon

nutomic ,
@nutomic@lemmy.ml avatar

Beehaw is still using version 0.18.4 which will soon celebrate its first birthday. We made countless moderation improvements since then, but of course Beehaw won't get those if they refuse to upgrade.

anon6789 ,
@anon6789@lemmy.world avatar

Not just the politics, but the news threads I feel have degenerated into ragebait topics with shallow conversation. I used to find a conversation or 2 a day to participate in, but now I don't want to touch many news or politics threads.

canis_majoris ,
@canis_majoris@lemmy.ca avatar

This is pretty much my beef with Lemmy.

The fact that the development team is also the ownership and administration of the instance spreading propaganda is just absolutely insane to me.

Vote logs just show them supporting the extremist behavior.

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

Not just spreading propaganda, actively censoring anything critical of their Chinese overlords as well.

awwwyissss ,

Yeah, it's a malicious instance that shouldn't be federated.

sabreW4K3 , in Lemmy.world community banned people for misinformation on the post complaining about Lemmy.ml instance banning people for misinformation
@sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al avatar

Sorry mate, I'm with @PugJesus on this. There's no benefit in platforming misinformation.

Blaze OP ,

It's fine!

I really see where they come from, and why they prefer a strong moderation on this kind of topics. I guess it starts to get blurry once you have to define what is misinformation. Historical accuracy is hard to achieve (this is why I still go to /r/AskHistorians, and I linked a few threads in the other comments).

I saw some time ago a graph showing how the perception of the USSR changed a lot in Europe during the Cold War compared to just after WW2.

The following statements might be all true at the same time

  • USSR committed imperialist massacres
  • USA committed imperialist massacres
  • most of the Western European nations committed imperialist massacres

Sometimes I'm wondering if those three statements can be compiled in a single comment and not instantly start a comment war with everyone trying to push their own agenda, and mods having to interfere following their own views.

Kaboom ,

nb4 someone says "both sides"

poVoq ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

Worth thinking about what all these have in common, no? (Hint: they are all nation states).

sunzu , (edited )

Nahh fuck you... My nation state is better and strong! It will kick your nation state's ass!

My nation state never did nothing mate!!!

sunzu ,

"Mao and Stalin did nothing wrong and if they did, the undesirables deserved it.

The West is a disgusting generacy oppressing the working people"

Banged out a tankie from while enjoying his soy latte in Brooklyn coffee shop. Dreaming to escaping to the socialist Paradise and leaving the shit hole behind.

awwwyissss ,

Banged out a tankieKremlin shill from while enjoying his soy latte borscht in Brooklyn coffee shop St Petersburg.

corsicanguppy ,

The following statements might be all true at the same time

  • USSR committed imperialist massacres
  • USA committed imperialist massacres
  • most of the Western European nations committed imperialist massacres

No one's refuting that 'both sides' logic. But if

  • I took a beer from the 2-4 in your garage
  • Pierre took a beer from the 2-4 in your garage
  • Ivan took 22 beers from the 2-4 in your garage

Then we're all bad house guests, but Ivan's a complete asshole.

Blaze OP , (edited ) in What could be the consensus for an "open source" or "free software" community that is not lemmy.ml nor lemmy.world?
@Blaze@sopuli.xyz avatar

!opensource

  • 158 users per month
  • 780 subscribers
  • unmoderated
  • instance is still on 0.19.3, no news about updating yet
otter ,
@otter@lemmy.ca avatar

Oh I didn't realize it was unmoderated. I would prefer this one if we could but it would be nice to find people to moderate it.

Admin moderation would likely be ok for this community since I don't expect a high workload, but it's not ideal

Blaze OP ,
@Blaze@sopuli.xyz avatar

Finding moderators might be the biggest challenge

recursive_recursion ,
@recursive_recursion@programming.dev avatar

@otter @Blaze

Please know that even while our communities are moderated by @Vacant us admins are still making sure the content is within our TOS and community guidelines🤗

although it would be nice to find volunteer moderators as it would help distribute both power and responsibilities🌻🍀

Blaze OP ,
@Blaze@sopuli.xyz avatar

Good to know!

Emperor ,
@Emperor@feddit.uk avatar

If anyone is interested in Modding it, contact @Ategon

mke , (edited )

It wasn't that difficult for the Linux community a while back, was it? I am once again adding my name to the volunteer list, though, just in case.

Regarding the version, I think I remember some p.dev discussion on the possibility of migrating to Sublinks. Wonder if that's related.

Edit: I don't think it is. Seems they simply want to wait a week or two before updating.

threelonmusketeers Mod , in Dads of Lemmy, should we consolidate the Dad communities?

Yup, this one seems like a no-brainer: !fatherverse

  • Has an active mod
  • Is not on LW or ml
  • Has a great name

We don't often get all three.

NOT_RICK , in Lemmy.world community banned people for misinformation on the post complaining about Lemmy.ml instance banning people for misinformation
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Anyone characterizing the Soviet invasion of Poland as “bloodless” deserves to have their bullshit posts nuked

7U5K3N , in Dads of Lemmy, should we consolidate the Dad communities?

I love the idea of a consolidated fatherverse.

You get back into reddit territory... But one place for new dads to be able to search for answers would be lovely.

When my wife became pregnant, daddit on Reddit gave me answers, support and tips for pregnancy, childbirth and bringing the rascal home.

It would be nice to have a place like that here.

Fizz ,
@Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

It can be consolidated until the community has grown enough to split into its own niches.

Jackhammer_Joe ,

I agree to the federation, just for the name of it: The Fathervers™ - that just sounds too cool!

In all seriousness: I think it would help to have one central community for dads

nilloc ,

Dadvice is a close second. Could be a decent tag section on Fatherverse.

Blackout , in Lemmy.world community banned people for misinformation on the post complaining about Lemmy.ml instance banning people for misinformation
@Blackout@kbin.run avatar

If you spread lies like USSR never working with the Nazis then I don't care if you are banned from planet earth. It's a heinous lie that tries to ignore undisputed facts. The Soviets were brutal killers that only joined the allies cause their partner in crime turned on them. All those bans were reasonable. Blocking .ml is the right choice.

Blaze OP ,
Blaze OP , in What could be the consensus for a !privacy community that is not lemmy.ml nor lemmy.world?

!privacy

Pros:

  • Active community (477 users / week 531 users / month)
  • Actively managed by @QuentinCallaghan, admin of sopuli.xyz
  • Well managed instance

I dont see any con here, but feel free to point out any

Empricorn ,

Thank you, subscribed.

Blaze OP ,

The idea was more to discuss which one to pick to become the "default" one to post too, but happy to help

Empricorn , (edited )

Like Linux distributions, I think the biggest, most popular one will have the best chance at challenging the status status quo, so every subscription matters!

Blaze OP ,

Very true!

otter , in Has anyone else noticed Google has barely indexed Lemmy
@otter@lemmy.ca avatar

As far as Reddit goes, recently there have been articles about SEO shenanigans

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-reddit-is-taking-over-google-right-now-2024-4

There was a guide a while back about searching for Lemmy posts, and it involved using the search operators to pick out a few large instances

Blaze , in Has anyone else noticed Google has barely indexed Lemmy
@Blaze@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I haven't used Google in a while, DuckDuckGo indexes them okay, SearX too

commandar ,

Kagi has a built in Fediverse lens (filter). Works well IME.

GenderNeutralBro , in Is Lemmy.world centralization worth fighting against?

It's a big problem all across the fediverse. New users have no idea which instance to join. In the absence of any way to differentiate between instances, they go with the most popular one, or the one they've heard of the most, or the one that sounds vaguely official or "vanilla". Lemmy.world is the obvious choice for these users.

This leads to the biggest server becoming a runaway train, which is bad for diversity and also bad for the admins because it makes it harder to manage the load. It's the same thing with mastodon.social.

I would encourage users to avoid the biggest instance as a rule, no matter which service they are signing up for. Ideally, avoid the top three or five. That will naturally lead to a healthier balance.

The problem is, there aren't a lot of "general purpose" Lemmy instances. Someone following my advice, who doesn't know better, might find themselves on hexbear, dbzer0, or lemmygrad. These are bad choices for a new user who expects something more or less equivalent to major centralized sites.

Blaze OP ,
@Blaze@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Indeed.

Ideally, avoid the top three or five. That will naturally lead to a healthier balance.

That's probably good for Mastodon, but for Lemmy there isn't so much choice. My rule of thumb, in order is

  • lemm.ee
  • sh.itjust.works if you are ok with the name
  • discuss.tchncs.de or lemmy.ca depending if you are located in Europe or North America
  • lemmy.zip as they are good contenders, but a bit smaller than the others
threelonmusketeers Mod ,

Any reasons for choosing discuss.tchncs.de over feddit.de?

Edit: Oh wait, is feddit.de down? Have they been having issues recently?

Blaze OP ,
@Blaze@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Now you understand 😄

They have a strange issue with their frontend, the instance is still running, and can be accessed using other front ends, but as you can see, not the best experience for a new joiner

TexMexBazooka ,

Shamelessly plugging lemm.ee- it is exactly what you’re looking for when you say general purpose instance

ALostInquirer ,

New users have no idea which instance to join. In the absence of any way to differentiate between instances, they go with the most popular one, or the one they’ve heard of the most, or the one that sounds vaguely official or “vanilla”. Lemmy.world is the obvious choice for these users.

It's a little less the case with Lemmy and other less popular fediverse stuff, but isn't a large number of vague/general purpose instances a contributor to this? In other words, wouldn't more focused instances help reduce this problem?

A big benefit of federation shines with topic-focused instances in that it ensures an already curated local feed to your main interest (or interests), meanwhile remaining able to connect with and discuss more general interest stuff via home and federated feeds.

Blaze OP ,
@Blaze@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Definitely, but I guess the amount of sysadmins wanting to operate a lemmy instance is limited. Add to that the CSAM and other nasty stuff that happened at the beginning, and only a few people would be okay to manage their own instance.

Also, even a topic-focused instance would suffer from the lack of population. How many interesting topic can you find for a population of 50k? That can't be too precise, because you are talking to a very small population. Well, I guess that's why db0 and slrpnk are doing well, piracy and solarpunk are popular among Lemmy users (as well as whatever the political stance of lemmy.ml is)

GenderNeutralBro ,

Something to that, for sure. The only problem is if the choices are overwhelming. People like choice when it's immediately comprehensible and meaningful, and hate it with a vengeance when it's not. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice

Mastodon is already pretty good about this with the official app and nevertheless, the most common complaint I heard during the Twitter exodus was that signing up for Mastodon was too complicated. Lemmy is far worse in this regard. The closest thing to an "official" Lemmy app doesn't even have "Lemmy" in the name, and doesn't pop up on the first screen of results in Google Play.

Emperor ,
@Emperor@feddit.uk avatar

The problem is, there aren’t a lot of “general purpose” Lemmy instances.

Or there aren't enough specific ones. If you go to Join Lemmy and you are presented with a number of general purpose instances, you are likely to pick the largest and only later realise the problems that entails and switch to another instance.

If you are a Trekkie or read books or game or program then it is easy to pick one. Ditto if there is an instance specific to your country (I should know).

If you look at Mastodon (which is more developed and has a wider and deeper selection of instances) you can see that these niches instances do well and I think we need to encourage more here.

FigMcLargeHuge , in Who do you think would be a good candidate to do an AMA on Lemmy?

George Takei would be good.

threelonmusketeers Mod ,

He's on Mastodon! @georgetakei

Off-topic, but when I searched for him, my phone autocorrected "Takei" to "Naked". Oh my...

brb , in We are now at 48,859 monthly active users vs 51,172 a month ago, decline seems slow but steady. Anything we can do about it?

The constant spam of murica politics, linux evangelists and the lack of niche communities have almost made me stop using lemmy. Almost because there just isn't any alternatives.

Blaze OP ,

I blocked those two topics a while ago. Feed has improved

brb ,

How did you block politics?

Blaze OP ,

By blocking related communities

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