Gen Z folks seem a lot less inclined to believe hard work under capitalism will get you anywhere and they have little company loyalty. Proud as fuck of them. 💖
Yep, employers under capitalism only understand leverage. Job hop, play multiple offers against each other, negotiate a higher salary and have the power to walk. It feels sleazy but it's self preservation. It's only as sleazy as their incentive to pay you as little as possible.
"Hard work" was the wisdom passed down but I think it came from confirmation bias. If your employer gives you good raises just to keep you, you'll feel you deserve it instead of attributing it to a very good job market for workers.
It's cool, we figure it out after a year or so in this environment (if nobody has told us.)
Law is entirely man made and purely a concept to allow for formal processes that we agree on as necessary to maintaining an ethical society. I see no reason why we can't recognize natural entities as having legal rights. In fact, it's a pretty good idea, markedly better than deciding that corporations are people.
markedly better than deciding that corporations are people.
Came here to say exactly this. However, remember that corporations are people because it's a way for the executives to escape personal accountability and responsibility for any decision they make. Extending the same logic to nature, personhood is likely to be abused. People would do it since nature won't complain or litigate back.
I think it could be helpful as a form of defense and protecting nature, but there’s the other side to the coin, which is, how do you then “hold nature accountable” for its “actions?” By that I mean natural disasters. For instance, if a mudslide occurs, how do you hold that mountain accountable? Do the victims of the mudslide then have the right to seek damages from that mountain? Could compensation come in the form of granting the victims the right to cut down all the trees on the other side of the mountain so that the timber can be harvested to compensate the victims for that natural disaster?
I think granting personhood is going to create issues from a legal standpoint and coming up with consistent precedents around agency and action. I’m not sure that this avenue of approach necessarily solves the problem at hand, which seems to be that we’re trying to prevent human beings from destroying the Earth. In that sense, it seems like the most effective and more direct response is to restrict the actions of humans rather than granting personhood to something else.
but there’s the other side to the coin, which is, how do you then “hold nature accountable” for its “actions?” By that I mean natural disasters.
No, this is not part of legal personhood. Essentially every legal system has a version of juridical personhood (i.e. a personal entity only in legal proceedings), and they do not allow for this kind of ad absurdam approach to the legal liabilities of an entity. They spell out exactly what kind of liabilities an entity is subject to, and natural disasters have never been put forth as part of non-human natural entities.
Woah, you’re coming in a little bit hot, there. The post asked for community thoughts on granting “personhood” to natural entities, and that’s all I did.
Also, the parallel I was making wasn’t to say that natural disasters would gain personhood, but rather natural disasters could be considered tortious conduct by a natural entity, which this post contemplated as gaining personhood. The point I was making was simply to suggest there are some thought exercises about tort law that are worth considering before moving forward. It isn’t absurd to suggest the possible parallels between a legal entity (I.e., corporation) being proximally related to tortious conduct and a natural entity, like a mountain, being between proximally related to what might be considered tortious conduct (e.g., a mudslide) under the proposed legal regime.
the parallel I was making wasn’t to say that natural disasters would gain personhood, but rather natural disasters could be considered tortious conduct by a natural entity
Yes, I understood what you were saying. That's what I was referring to when I mentioned "liabilities" of the natural entities: mountains are not liable for mudslide damages, lakes are not liable for flooding or rogue waves, etc. This is not a purely hypothetical area of law, these laws have already been enacted in various places, and none of the laws put forth have suggested any kind of liability on the part of the natural entities for natural disasters (or defined any other means of engaging in tortious conduct, on the part of the natural entities).
Look, I’m not going to get into a back-and-forth with you about this because it’s not my area of expertise, but a cursory glance at the Wikipedia article, which was “supplemental reading” for the question of what people thought about the idea, suggests that the underlying legal mechanisms (admittedly, I’m analyzing this from jurisprudence of the United States so terminology and precedents may differ) have to do with granting standing to individuals and communities that otherwise might not have a direct enough connection to assert an injury. Some references, like to the Ponca, suggest that the goal is accomplished by enacting new criminal statutes; others by granting private citizens the right to sue those that harm nature.
The legal mechanisms are not rooted in granting “personhood,” but rather providing means of protecting nature, which is a completely different legal approach. Nevertheless, the “personhood” approach was an interesting one, and because this is Beehaw, I thought entering the conversation could be productive and thought-provoking exercise.
Again, I’m not going to spend anymore time researching source materials, but you have conflated “personhood” with environmental protection laws, which I was not addressing, and you have come off as rather condescending. If we had been talking about conventional environmental protection laws, I would have agreed with you that the law doesn’t associate legal liabilities with nature, but instead, you hijacked the conversation and changed the discussion. You suggested that the statement I made before you changed it was addressed to your new conversation, and suddenly what I said was “absurd.”
If we are actually talking about the premise of legal personhood rather than just ways to protect the environment, then the parallels to considering that a concept, like a corporation, could have legal rights and liabilities associated with agency are actually really analogous, and in the litigious society we live in, would become a matter for a court to decide.
I wasn't trying to be condescending or antagonizing; this actually is an area I have knowledge about, and I was just trying to be helpful.
and suddenly what I said was “absurd.”
No, I said that laws related to this do not allow for "ad absurdum" interpretations of liability. The liabilities of juridical entities (legal persons) are laid out very explicitly within a given jurisdiction's laws, and certainly would not cover things which would otherwise already qualify legally as "acts of god" (i.e. natural disasters).
Just wanted to comment, this isn't a Voyager issue breaking compatibility with Beehaw. They have given us a lot of warning and efforts at keeping backwards compatibility. This was Beehaws decision to not upgrade Lemmy to a version that Voyager supports.
Because you have 20 of them around the house and don't care if you lose them?
Why would you use disposable refills at all if you care about the environment? A fountain pen can last for many years, the ink comes in glass containers, and it's far nicer for writing in most scenarios.
Yes but our writing isn't. When you write right handed you pull the pen, whereas left handed you push it. It changes the angle at which the pen rests on the paper and makes it so the pen scrapes along the surface and digs into it.
Most of my cheap ballpoints have stopped writing with half the ink left because of that.
There's a type of Japanese felt tip which writes somewhere between a fountain pen and a ballpoint, and there are versions that can be filled with ink. They don't need all the faffing around of fountain pens, and don't dent the paper like a ballpoint.
Sure, if you're a mechanic that's writing on greasy paper while standing. The same ink and delivery system make it far worse if you're actually sitting behind a desk and writing for prolonged time.
There's only one situation where a ballpoint is better suited than a fountain pen: writing checks. Fountain pens are not good for situations where you have to press hard enough to create a pressure duplicate. Thankfully, check-writing is going slowly extinct.
There are many pens besides the Pilot Vanishing Point that are just as convenient; why do you say that ballpoints are more practical?
I had a Monteverde retractable rollerball I absolutely loved which was well-suited to writing through carbon forms.
Like most things, many people don’t want to be inconvenienced with the ritual of refilling their pens; a ritual many fountain pen owners actually enjoy; they don’t care about the granular control over color. Blue is blue. Black is black. But for us, a particular shade of cornflower blue is what brings us joy.
Many FP lovers refill from bottles, but it isn't necessary. Cartridges are easy to use, well-suited for travel when you may run dry in the middle of a trip, and TSA doesn't give you grief about them.
Again, my point to OP was that there's very little practical advantage to ball points over fountain pens; if you're using cartridges, they're not much better for the environment, but you can do things like use a converter most of the time and carry cartridges as back-up. Fountain pens are fantastic writing implements.
They're also better for writing on bad or dirty paper, non-paper surfaces, and if you write in your hand instead of on a desk (the high pressure threshold makes mistakes less visible for me).
PS
Try out the FPR Ultra Flex EF nibs. I've got one of them on a Jinhao x750. It's not the most practical (it can railroad and go dry), but the flex is so worth it.
There’s only one situation where a ballpoint is better suited than a fountain pen: writing checks. Fountain pens are not good for situations where you have to press hard enough to create a pressure duplicate.
That, and the ink can handle a bit of water unlike that of a fountain pen (unless you use India ink but then good luck if you have a leak and ruin your bag or shirt because nothing can get that stuff out)
PS The last time I used a check was in the 90s 😆 Do people still use them where you are? I couldn't even get one from my bank if I wanted to.
That, and the ink can handle a bit of water unlike that of a fountain pen
There are a large number of water-resistant and water-proof inks; both Sailor and Montblanc make several. Legal documents are (usually) required to be signed in waterproof blue or black ink, so you'll find a lot of selection in especially these brands that cater to business people.
Any ink that is indelible is going to be impossible to get out of clothing if you spill it; I think that's rather self-evident?
The ink from these pens takes longer to dry, I don't want to wait until I can turn the sheet of paper around. And I have 20 of the same ones because they run out so quickly when you use only pens and I like how they feel in the hand.
The ink from these pens takes longer to dry, I don’t want to wait until I can turn the sheet of paper around.
Unless you're using the cheapest possible ink and paper with a fat nib, you're only waiting like 2-3 seconds to be certain it won't smudge. Even when I'm writing quickly and can't wait, I haven't yet smudged from turning a page. TBH I spend way more time waiting for my hand to uncramp because I had to press a ballpoint like a maniac while holding it in a horrible position.
I like how they feel in the hand
Then I'm guessing you haven't held a decent fountain pen. Get something cheap like a Jinhao x750 (<5$) and then tell me any disposable ballpoint feels better. And if that doesn't fit your hand, there's a wide array of shapes, sizes, and materials.
Don't buy the 1$ ones for kids, and they don't. For 4-5$ on AliExpress they don't leak at all. I carried a few in my bag, and the worst that happened was that the nib got a bit dirty. If you need to be extra careful, get a one with a screwed cap.
Also, I'm pretty sure the converter makes it safer. When you draw in the ink, it creates a vacuum (pretty sure), and I've had ink literally defy gravity.
Also it's hard not to smear the ink.
Not really if you're not using the cheapest possible ink. Decent cheap ink through an extra fine nib dries in about the same time as a gel pen for me. As in, don't try to smear it, and you won't.
I always use the ones with the plastic capsules, not the real refillable ones.
You can buy a converter if you still have any. Big companies make their own, Chinese have a standard most of them are using and coming with. A Parker converter literally cost me more than 2 Chinese pens though.
They're more expensive and I don't look after my pens well enough.
My current favourite is Jinhao x750. It's less than 5$, metal body, refillable, doesn't leak. I've replaced the nib on the one I'm using, but the default is still way ahead of a ballpoint. The plastic models cost even less, but don't feel as nice IMO.
Easier again? A dip pen. Doesn't sound so easy, but you never get leaks on the paper or where you store your pen, can change ink on the fly, not limited to nib choice or handle choice by manufacturer of either.
Great fountain pen nib could cost you upward of $50 plus barrel it will go into, plus reservoir or facility for cartridges. Stellar dip nib could be $20, you can tape it to a twig, and just dip it in ink - no converter or pricey cartridges needed.
In a backwards sort of way, I think that young people are rightly skeptical. They've been sold truckloads of low quality bullshit from a young age (think like dumb videos that are obviously fake), and that encourages the development of a personal filter that many boomers lack. The forces at work plant the seeds of critical thinking.
The Federation is a representative republic, with an elected president as the head of the entire interstellar state. An election is held every four years, and a president may serve for an unlimited number of terms.
Political and direct administrative power is held within the Federation Council, which is composed of one councillor from every Member World. There is no limit as to how many terms a person may serve as councillor. T'Latrek of Vulcan, for instance, served on the Federation Council for nearly a century. Each individual Member determines how its councillors will be determined; the First Minister of Bajor, for instance, nominates that world's councillor and the Chamber of Ministers ratifies him or her, while the electorates of many other Members elect their councillors directly.
The Federation government has several executive departments whose heads form the Presidential Cabinet, who advise the president on their issues of jurisdiction and run their departments on a day-to-day basis. Cabinet members can have strong influence on Federation policy based upon their work with the president and the appropriate members of the Federation Council.
By the late 23rd and 24th century, the capital city of the Federation is Paris, and the capital planet is Earth. The seat of government is the Palais de la Concorde.
In 24th century Starfleet, calculus was taught to children around age ten or older. On the USS Enterprise-D, Harry Bernard hated calculus, despite the fact that his father told him everyone needed a basic understanding of it. (TNG: "When The Bough Breaks")
I still check it very occasionally because my family and a few friends are on there. I don't know how they stand it; it's been 95+% ads for at least a year now.
Do you have any recommendations for a newbie at Beehaw to make the most of my experience here?
Comments invite comments. If there's a post you see that is interesting but has no comments, if you make one it is much more likely to bring in others to discuss.
Are there any non-obvious Communities I should join? I’m looking for friends and fun. Where do?
Really depends on your interests. Unless you don't play games at all, I'd recommend the Gaming community as one of the most active interest-based communities.
Beehaw feels a little lonely. Not a lot of activity.
I think that for some of us, Beehaw is a nice quiet respite from the "loudness" elsewhere on the net, especially as many of us are refugees from Reddit. Speaking only for myself, over the years I've killed my Facebook and Twitter accounts, and only maintain a private Instagram for a few family and friends. Beehaw is somewhere I lurk daily, and it doesn't feel like I'm being inundated with "content" like I was on Reddit or Imgur.
I sort of think of it like a 'home base', that I can come back to to relax after foraying out into the broader and 'wilder' social media and news worlds.
I was bullied extensively for my entire time at school.
Supposedly it's all changed now, and reporting bullies to teachers means they'll actually do something about it, but back when I was in school, the main lesson I learned is that bullies only stop if they actually fear the consequences of continuing. Since the teachers never impose any real consequences, I had to do it myself. The trouble is, you have to give an awful lot of bullies concussions to really get the problem to end, because it only works on the bully who is actually hurt due to their actions. It doesn't stop their friends until they, too, fear pain.
Interestingly, when I started A-levels at the local college, a bunch of the kids from my previous school were there as well. One of them decided to continue bullying me, so I did the thing I was supposed to do: report it. I was fully expecting nothing to be done, and it would follow the same routine as it always did: empty platitudes, promises to deal with it that ultimately went no where, ending in the inevitability of me snapping one day... However, the college had a rather different attitude to bullies than the school had. The first report was the last one, and the nasty little bitch got expelled that afternoon. Never saw her again. I hope getting expelled screwed up her life.
All the other kids from my previous school started being very, very nice to me. Turns out they can treat others with respect after all!
Children are assholes. Empathy is not innate. It's something they have to be taught, and if their parents can't be bothered to do that, they will be cruel, vicious little dicks who only care about themselves and who only respect others if there are meaningful consequences for not doing so.
The ideal outcome is that the school imposes those consequences before you have to take matters into your own hands. In some countries, if the school doesn't do anything, the police are a good option after that - in my country, the police don't like dealing with it, so they tend to come down like a ton of bricks on the school with major "why has this gone on so long that it has come to us, sort it out now" energy. Sometimes the school has to feel like fobbing you off is more effort than kicking the bullies out before they take it seriously.
I guess in short my advice is that to stop bullies, you've got to be willing to stand up for yourself. Bullies cannot be reasoned with, they can only be compelled to behave by the fear of what will happen if they don't. Sometimes the school also needs to fear the consequences of not taking reports seriously.
Yeah, giving colleagues concussions sadly is not an option. But if the bullying is taking place in the workplace, there are other options - although it does still come down to making yourself more of a hassle to ignore than to listen to. HR exist to protect the company, so making the point that the company has to provide a safe and harassment-free environment for employees, and therefore have to deal with bullies, can be a good strategy - basically implying that failing to deal with the bullies can get them sued. And depending on what country you're in (ie, whether you have good worker protections), if you've reported bullying, they haven't done anything, and you're left with no option but to quit in order to escape the bullying... the employment tribunals will be brutal for the company.
I think the fact that they seem to understand that the whole society we have at present is built almost entirely of bullshit.. is going to work well for them changing things for everyone, even if all they do is not comply. They seem to understand, at least in some contexts, that appearances aren’t worth much if there’s no substance.
I’ve never used a single pen long enough without losing or breaking it to need to refill it.
Heh. I still have my first pen. Yes, I do mean my first ever pen. The one I learnt to write with in 1st grade.
Unfortunately, it's in terrible shape:
The cap is lost
Its nib is pushed in (perhaps from a drop)
The tines seem a bit separated
The tip seems slightly chipped
The soft touch plastic coating has already melted due to time
There's probably dried ink in the feed
Perhaps if I could re-align the nib, it could write again. The chip is small, and the tines don't seem too far separated. But I am not sure how to proceed with that without breaking it. It's just one of those cheapest fountain pens, not something meant to be serviced in any way.
I've used it for around 4 years.
When Blue users where getting pushed to the top. The vitriol was always bad, but it was altogether too much when you couldn't open the replies to anything without reading the most heinous shit imaginable.
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