Anarchism

nxdefiant , in Wash your own dishes!

Anarchism:
The theory or doctrine that all forms of government are oppressive and undesirable and should be abolished.

Anarchist: Decides to wash dishes, or not wash dishes, on their own. Literally nothing else is defined in this scenario.

Gradually_Adjusting , in Wash your own dishes!
@Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

You forgot tech bro capitalism: we made an app that pays you to do other people's dishes whenever you want to, and we will run at a steep loss until we're the only game in town. Later we'll squeeze the workers and the customers for all they're worth. Our CEO is a narcissistic sex offender.

tagginator Bot , in Alain Pecunia (1945-2024)

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lugal , in We should be over this, yo.

Did he really say this? Isn't he famous for finding mutual aid in nature? I think he said something like competition is the way of predators and that's what many people, including biologists, focus on, but most of nature does a lot of mutual aid

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yes, he said the both competition and cooperation are found in nature, but that cooperation/mutual aid lends itself more to survival, and he cites examples from both animals and humans: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution

DaseinPickle ,

Who says nature can’t be civilised?

TranscendentalEmpire ,

I think it's kinda a semantic dispute. Rules are mostly a human construct, utilized to organize a hierarchy of understanding of the natural world and how we interact with it as social groups.

So, I'm not really sure if an idea like mutual aid can be used to accurately describe copacetic relationships outside the human experience. Mostly because when nature engages in mutually beneficial relationships, there isn't a goal of organization, nor is there any understanding of hierarchy.

These types of relationships could better be described by someone like Bookchin, as a network of natural codependent relationships is more in the realm of ecology than it is a political science.

lugal ,

Interesting thought but Kropotkin did apply the concept of mutual aid to nature

TranscendentalEmpire ,

I wasn't really disputing that he applied it to nature, just giving my two cents of why I don't think that application is really appropriate.

It's kinda an apple to oranges comparison. For example, we wouldn't be excited about conducting mutual aid with a fascist organization. We understand that fascist would be more than happy to take part, and eventually use that relationship to destroy us.

Nature in comparison is full of relationships that start as mutually beneficial and then become parasitic after a slight change in ecology. The examples of mutual aid in nature are also likely products of survivorship bias, the organisms that find harmony in mutual beneficial relationships are the product of filling the gaps left behind of other mutually beneficial relationships failling.

To condense my rambling..... We can find examples of mutually beneficial relationships/actions in both nature and human society. Technically all forms of commerce is a form of mutual beneficiary action, but not all mutually beneficial actions are mutual aid. Mutual aid requires intent to organize or intent to diminish the dependency of the current organizational hierarchy.

lugal ,

Makes sense. Thanks!

Clent ,

So the difference is, we overthink it and have to convince ourselves to do what comes naturally to other biological entities?

TranscendentalEmpire ,

I think the difference would be that the concept of mutual aid is meant to build something further than just surviving within a niche of mutual benefits. It's a means of political organization, not a means of simple existence.

AnUnusualRelic ,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

We need rules because so many of us are assholes.

Cowbee , (edited )
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Why do some people become assholes?

TokenBoomer , in We should be over this, yo.

Dat beard though.

haui_lemmy , in We should be over this, yo.
@haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com avatar

Its so simple yet most people dont get it. Thanks for posting this.

index , in We should be over this, yo.
RedditWanderer , in Cameras Everywhere, Safety NowhereWhy Police Body Cameras Won’t Make Us Safer

Nobody but the person writing this article thinks body cams will "solve the problem" but they do make us safer when they are used, and give us further investigative powers when they are turned off by accident/intentionally.

000999 OP ,

Abolish the police

BarrelAgedBoredom , in We should be over this, yo.
NovaPrime ,
@NovaPrime@lemmy.ml avatar

I see you shirt brother

boredtortoise , in Be on the lookout for CIA propaganda! Tankies LOVE dissenters!

'Tankies' (for the lack of a better word) have been against communism throughout history. It's disingenuous to assume they could be capable of unity

sab ,

I always wonder what the political left would look like in different European countries in the 20th century had it not been for the influence of the Soviet Union. Soviet influence ran, in my humble opinion, like poison through the veins of European socialist organisations. It seems to me like successful left wing mobilization is directly correlated with a relative lack of Soviet influence.

boredtortoise ,

Yeah. They executed a lot of leftist thinking and set back progress for decades. And inadvertently were the reason for the red scare still deeply ingrained in many

sab ,

Even ignoring the executions, they set the party agenda for a lot of European communist parties, struck down independent local organization (which were more in line with traditional communitarian ideas), and made the political left wing something that could more legitimately be written off as a foreign influence rather than a legitimate political movement because to an uncanny degree, that was just what it was.

This reflects my impression in countries like France - in Spain they of course took it to another level.

aberrate_junior_beatnik ,

Stalin was also partially to blame for the rise (and, to give him his due, fall) of Hitler. The recalcitrance of the Communist party in Weimar Germany was a big part of what prevented a left coalition from being able to take power and cut the Nazis off at the root.

sab ,

To be fair, in the German context the conservatives were also terrified of the socialist democrat party, who were relatively moderate and if I remember correctly did not have too close ties with Soviet. Hindenburg made the fatal mistake of being more afraid of moderate socialists than of radical fascists.

I also wouldn't give Stalin too much credit for defeating Hitler. The Soviet Union only turned on Germany when they were invaded, and Stalin's military strategy was ruthless and incredibly inefficient. When the Red Army freed Europe I'd argue it was in spite of Stalin rather than because of him.

Maybe I'm looking at history with a view to avoid giving Stalin credit for anything, but turning on a fascist country only when they invade you does not impress me much, and ordering your soldiers to march into a meat grinder without weapons is not an efficient military strategy.

novibe ,

You mean the coup, revisionist, governments of Khrushchev, Brezhnev and the following reactionary anti-communists that destroyed the USSR were actually bad for leftism? Color me shocked.

Even “tankies” would agree that all the anti-communism, anti-Stalinism and anti-Leninism of the USSR after Stalin really fucked communism and leftism all over the world.

Or do you think “tankies” think the USSR after Stalin was “based”? What even is this take?

trashgirlfriend ,

The USSR has been bad since the USSR existed

novibe ,

Uhum uhum, it’s been “bad”. Like it’s only been one of the best countries in history, if you like, actually materially analyse human history and stuff.

Do people like you think what, Sweden is a good country? Or there has been 0 good attempts at social organization in human history, and we better just kill ourselves and give up?

Or rather, my personal position is that indeed the USSR sucked (likely in different ways than you think), and it was still one the best nations ever. We should learn from what it did right, but also what it did wrong.

trashgirlfriend ,

Brother u on some liberalism

novibe ,

Brother YOU are on some liberalism lmao what are you talking about?

sab ,

What even is this indeed. I was talking about the influence of the Comintern, through which the Soviet Union set the agenda of socialist parties all over Europe.

The Comintern ended in '43, but there's a broken part of the European left that never stopped sucking up to Russia. These days they're thankfully just a bunch of weirdos that nobody really gives a shit about, but back in the 30s this stuff mattered.

novibe ,

Your point being the USSR was influential because it was.. what evil?

Doesn’t it make sense they were influential because they were like the only socialist state at the time? And they actually did support many, if not most, anti-colonial and leftist movements all over the world. Like, if you were a leftist in Africa, and needed help fighting against colonialism and stuff, there was only the USSR around to help you. And they did help, a lot.

They had the largest increase in quality of life in history prior to China, they pioneered space exploration and computation. They had the most advanced laws to protect minorities, to guarantee equality for women etc. Their universities were free for people on the 2nd AND 3rd world to attend.

How exactly were they so terrible? And please, don’t list things every country did exactly the same or worse.

Or do you think all the good they did is completely nullified by the bad?

Would it be best for humans to stop trying to do good, never try to learn from the bad, and just give up?

sab ,

I recommend reading Orwell's Homage to Catalonia!

It's a great read and gives a lot of insights into the dynamics I'm describing. The infighting between leftist fractions gets pretty technical, but Orwell does a great job with it.

novibe ,

Orwell is a piece of shit traitor who worked for the UK government to fight communists. AND he was a racist piece of shit. I will never read any books by him, thanks.

I refuse to read explicit anti-communists who worked for fascists states outing communists and disrupting their parties.

Ulzana ,
@Ulzana@mastodon.social avatar

@novibe @sab

Orwell fought in Spain against Franco. You have some odd definitions of "Anti_Communist."

He hated Stalin? So did everyone who could read and write.

sab ,

Orwell is pretty much universally hated by authoritarians on both sides of the political spectrum.

He's a personal hero of mine for many reasons, but that's certainly one of them.

Ulzana ,
@Ulzana@mastodon.social avatar

@sab @db0 @boredtortoise @novibe

Imagine hating Stalin with his massacres of real Communists, and being called an Anti-Communist? 😂

sab ,

To be fair, Orwell writes in Homage to Catalonia that even though he fought alongside Communists, he was there to fight against fascism, not for communism. I think it makes sense that the communists are not all that eager to praise him; that they are too ignorant to read him is their loss.

No matter how you put it, Stalin was certainly a more effective anti-Communist!

Ulzana ,
@Ulzana@mastodon.social avatar

@sab @db0 @boredtortoise @novibe

Actually he completely supported those he fought with. The "Poum" were Trotskyists, and could call themselves Communists.

Orwell had no problem with them, and there's Nothing in "Homage to Catalonia which attacks their ideals.

sab ,

True, I always read him as at least sympathetic to the original communist struggle, no matter how much he despised Stalinism and authoritarianism.

It does, however, make sense that people who in all likelihood consider themselves Stalinists wouldn't be the biggest fans of Orwell. What doesn't make sense is that these morons still exist at all, but that's a different issue entirely.

Ulzana ,
@Ulzana@mastodon.social avatar

@sab @db0 @boredtortoise @novibe

I have an astonishing book at home released by the Soviet Union while Stalin was head of the Communist Party.

It's a verbatim summary of some of the purge trials, and the lawyers for the defendants might as well have been the prosecutors.

In fact it reads like fiction, except that it's a real book. Beyond belief that Anyone could support this mass murderer.

novibe ,

Sure, but then don’t read anything about what he did right after that!

Ulzana ,
@Ulzana@mastodon.social avatar

@novibe

I blocked this fanatic, who pretends to know things...

BigBlackCockroach ,
@BigBlackCockroach@lemmy.world avatar

Many anarchists were simply murdered:

  • nazy-germany the anarchist movement was whole-sale murdered. Since then there is no anarchsist movment in germany.
  • franco-fascist-spain he murdered 200,000 anarchists after the civil war
  • ukraine machnowiki anarchists
  • russian anarchists
    and many more...

that is the reason why there is no anarchist movement in europe today. Before these events Anarchists were a major part of the workers movement.

sab ,

Most people nowadays also seem to buy into the idea that anarchists worship chaos and destruction. I'm not sure exactly where that idea comes from, but it's certainly convenient.

BigBlackCockroach ,
@BigBlackCockroach@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not sure exactly where that idea comes from

It's been propagated by the detractors of anarchism. The same defamation was used towards the republic when monarchies where the rule rather than exception. People often equated the concept of a republic with chaos and disorder, just like they now do with anarchism.

BarrelAgedBoredom ,

Just call em authoritarians. That's what they are

RBWells , in Motherly advice

Holy shit I actually did tell my daughter not to bring her phone to the protest.

Opisek ,

May I know what's the reason to not bring your phone? Is it due to concerns of being tracked?

scoobford ,

Basically, yes. Plus, it may be unconstitutionally searched if you are detained.

Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

Yes. Even when your phone is powered down, some models still ping cell towers. If it pings one, they know your distance to the tower. If it pings two, both towers know your distance, and the overlapping circles would reveal two positions coordinates, one of which you were at. With some contextual information, it's easy to know/prove which one you were at.

If it pings 3 towers, your exact location, and unique identifying information sucha as your phone's IMEI is revealed. So don't bring a cell.

synapse1278 ,
@synapse1278@lemmy.world avatar

Corporates are even bold enough to brand this as a nice to have feature, they call it "find my device" I think? But we can totally trust them to keep this data absolutely private and secure ! /s

vox ,
@vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

Samsung actually offers e2e encryption for location data using a pin code but unfortunately it's disabled by default for some reason. also only available for phones, not other pingable devices like wireless earbuds

synapse1278 ,
@synapse1278@lemmy.world avatar

Well, e2e encryption doesn't give you any guaranty if the encryption and communication protocols are proprietary and you didn't set the encryption key(s) all by yourself. Samsung could very well have the private keys to decrypt the data and give it to anyone they wish.

vox ,
@vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

it's symmetrical encryption so the pin code is the private key, (or er, the key's derived from it)

but also Samsung still gets the network address of the repotting device which can be used to get approximate location

Opisek ,

Yeah I know of triangulation. Just didn't know if that was the concern.

Isthisreddit ,

I don't think that's really the concern - I think OP was thinking of general metadata that can cause authorities to identify who was there, where exactly and when, and who was also with them - this is power authoritarians wishes they had for a thousands of years, and here we are...

Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

I think OP was thinking of general metadata that can cause authorities to identify who was there, where exactly and when, and who was also with them

Absolutely. Just look at all the shit available to them:

https://www.uscellular.com/content/dam/uscc-static/assets/pdfs/LERGv1.0.pdf

hwW37 ,

interesting description of triangulation

technocrit , in Is this socialism?

Some red fash told me that anti-authoritarianism is the mental disorder of 'oppositional defiant disorder'.

It's "funny" when capitalist and "communist" quackery merge for the same function of violent social control.

No gulags, no sanitariums.

db0 OP Mod ,

Very funny that they would use this phrase, since ‘oppositional defiant disorder’ can often be just badly diagnosed ADHD. And ye, we don't tolerate rulers since they always make things shittier long-term, nothing is a "disorder" about that.

muntedcrocodile ,

The political spectrum is a torus.

muntedcrocodile , in Is this socialism?

Yep

NoIWontPickAName , in Motherly advice

Like, I get the point, but if you are too much of a coward to put your face with the cause, I am automatically assuming you don’t really care and just want the attention

Daxtron2 ,

Or maybe you just don't want to be identified by bad actors who can and will doxx you?

NoIWontPickAName ,

Maybe, but it just shows that you don’t think the issue is worth a full measure, just a half one

Daxtron2 ,

Not wanting your family to get murdered by fascists is a half measure?

NoIWontPickAName ,

Do you see a lot of that happening?

Now if we’re talking about dictatorships and shit then yeah, and I absolutely Americanized this because of the college campus protests, so I retract my statement for everywhere but America.

Mea culpa

drathvedro ,

Yes. Though I am from the authoritarian state. But I wouldn't say the US is that much different. Sure they might not murder you outright, but they can and will make your life at least a little more miserable

Daxtron2 ,

Have you not seen the extreme rise of violence from the right in the past decade??

theneverfox ,
@theneverfox@pawb.social avatar

How is it a half measure? Not everyone can (or should) be a symbol

You could post your legal name and other socials on here... It would do nothing to make you more convincing imo. But by that logic, not doing so is a half measure

NoIWontPickAName ,

It is

jaybone ,

But with a mask on and no phone pics, how are you going to get that attention?

OneWomanCreamTeam ,
@OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works avatar

The mass of people chanting and holding signs is usually enough to draw the required attention. That's kinda the point.

jaybone ,

I thought the commentor meant the OP pic person was doing it for personal attention. Not attention for a cause.

NoIWontPickAName ,

Not at all

NoIWontPickAName ,

Wait, I think I misunderstood you.

Maybe attention isn’t the right word, basically I feel like you don’t actually support the cause, you just want to pretend you do.

The people who actually care are willing to take those punishments and the sheer fact that they are willing to do so is what shows they care.

Not showing yourself, shows a lack of dedication to your cause, you aren’t willing to sacrifice, other than some time, you won’t have any permanent consequences.

It’s a “put your money where your mouth is thing.”

They want to pretend they care to make themselves feel like they are doing something, but not sign their name for the cause.

OneWomanCreamTeam ,
@OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works avatar

I mean, if they arrest you that impedes your ability to continue protesting. There are reasons other than a lack of dedication to keep your identity protected.

NoIWontPickAName ,

The fact that you aren’t willing to take that hit shows a lack of belief in the importance of the cause.

Obviously it matters to you, a little at least and for various different reasons, because you are out there, but the people that really care about their causes are full in their support of them.

It’s like how so many people say they support something, but aren’t willing to sign their name to the petition.

db0 OP Mod ,

No, anarchists don't force others to take arrest risks they're not willing to. Everyone has their own tolerances and they can support the cause in their own way. Stop trying to pressure people.

NoIWontPickAName ,

Fair enough, I’m not trying to pressure anyone though.

OneWomanCreamTeam ,
@OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works avatar

I mean, if you're out there at all you're risking taking a hit (quite literally). Like, when you go to one of these protests you could be slammed to the ground, tear gassed, shot, or arrested. If you're willing to risk that I'd say you're pretty dedicated.

I think it's reasonable, even tactically advantageous to keep your identity protected. You're never going to accomplish much with one protest, and if everyone gets arrested on bullshit charges after the first one it's much harder to organize a second one.

NoIWontPickAName ,

They accomplished an awful lot, marching without masks in the 60’s and 70’s.

They bear the scars now too, but damn if you can’t say they didn’t get results.

Hell they were beaten, shot, water cannoned, even straight up gunned down a couple times

OneWomanCreamTeam ,
@OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works avatar

I mean, yeah. You can accomplish a lot with your face exposed too. You can always risk more. But these things don't have to be all or nothing like that.

NoIWontPickAName ,

Agreed, I said I would believe they care less in their cause, not not at all

reverendsteveii ,

there's a difference between being willing to take an arrest and getting arrested for something stupid. that's like saying that the point of an army is being willing to die for your country, so the best and bravest are the ones who enlist and then immediately commit suicide. be willing to take a hit, but be strategic about the hits you take and avoid taking a hit for no good reason. it's about getting the thing done, not proving that you're super legit.

NoIWontPickAName ,

I’ve said what I have to say about this.

People can agree or not, I do hope you have a great day though!

Objection ,
@Objection@lemmy.ml avatar

What's the point of putting yourself at risk for no tangible benefit?

NoIWontPickAName ,

The tangible benefit is getting more normies like me to join your cause.

That’s the point of the protest isn’t it?

Objection ,
@Objection@lemmy.ml avatar

Is the possibility of winning you over worth removing someone who is already actively involved? Are you more likely to join a protest if the risks and consequences you face are higher? What about all the people who have already been arrested for protesting recently - has that motivated you to get out and join them?

The fact is that tons of people, especially in the US, love to sit on the sidelines critiquing every protest for whatever arbitrary reason and will insist that they'd be won over if only they did something differently. But then, if they do things differently, they'll just find another reason to complain, because that's all they actually care to do.

I've never understood this prevailing viewpoint you expressed that protests are meant to get more people to join a cause. The point of a protest is to assert disruptive force and to threaten to assert further force. If you see a group of people gathered together doing stuff and happen to think it's cool for whatever reason, cool, sure, whatever. But it's not about you. Protests are not candidates that you decide whether to vote for or not. The point is to communicate to those in power, "We have to capability to get this many people out and organized, and we are going to be a pain in your ass until you give into our demands."

OneWomanCreamTeam ,
@OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works avatar

I mean yeah, but (at least in the US) cops have a habit of trampling your rights to protest. Even if you did nothing illegal they can (and will) still harass you after the fact for bullshit, made-up reasons.

They'll assault you in the moment too, but protecting your identity won't protect you from that.

NoIWontPickAName ,

Agreed

Strawberry ,

the attention you won't get because your identity is not known?

doingthestuff ,

There's actually an old anti-kkk law in Ohio they've been talking about still enforcing, it says if three or more people commit a misdemeanor together while concealing their identity it becomes a felony. It would be interesting to see how that played out in court today.

cobra89 ,

This is privilege talking, you should read Little Brother by Cory Doctorow.

NoIWontPickAName ,

Blah blah blah. You can’t throw the word privilege around for everything.

Don’t get me wrong, I have plenty of it, but the poor and rich, white and black all bonded together unmasked before.

IzzyScissor ,

Hmm, I hadn't thought about it that way, NOIWONTPICKANAME.

I guess you don't really care about this comment either, then, and are just doing it for attention.

NoIWontPickAName ,

It’s literally the only benefit, I get attention for what I say directly attached to how much effort and show I put out.

I also expect that if I had put my name to it, it would indeed show my dedication.

That’s why I sign petitions with my real name and this shit with my funny name.

That and I really like funny usernames, they make me happy, and I assume they do others as well.

I haven’t told anyone how to protest, I merely told you what I thought about the ones that don’t show their faces

IzzyScissor ,

CaaB

Cowardace as a Benefit

reverendsteveii ,

you're anonymous because you want attention

NoIWontPickAName ,

Maybe attention isn’t the right word, basically I feel like you don’t actually support the cause, you just want to pretend you do.

The people who actually care are willing to take those punishments and the sheer fact that they are willing to do so is what shows they care.

Not showing yourself, shows a lack of dedication to your cause, you aren’t willing to sacrifice, other than some time, you won’t have any permanent consequences.

It’s a “put your money where your mouth is thing.”

They want to pretend they care to make themselves feel like they are doing something, but not sign their name for the cause.

insomniac_lemon , in I'm searching for people interested in creation of remote, horizontal game dev worker cooperative
@insomniac_lemon@kbin.social avatar

@pbpza I vaguely align with this, but don't really have much capability or hope now. Even having difficulties furthering my (admittedly niche) interests here on the fediverse (federation problems, not many comments).

I am not quite sure what makes this a co-op and not some other community, conservancy, union, club/meetup etc. if it's remote?

Sidenote, not much in the way of actual projects but you'll see me in db0's project (closed PRs 1-3, 2 bits of character art w/animation). I am interested in polygonal art (both 2D and 3D) but have not found a good workflow for me. I would probably rather work solo (if I can do anything) and for programming I want to use nim-lang which limits my options. Might want to use Raylib, but 3D vertex colors was the last thing I tried and those didn't work for me (I could maybe do a simpler 2D polygon style, I have a format/loader started but it needs a lot more work with implementation to be viable). 2/3 of my threads showing my simple 3D art are visible on your instance.

I have life issues too, a change of living conditions would be nice but I don't know if I could pull my own weight plus I am just not really a sociable person. I can think of a lot of ways that might make me useful, but probably not substantial enough especially as I probably couldn't sustain any of it as a strict daily job.

db0 Mod ,

Oh hey! It's my character art contributor! Nice to see you in lemmy as well!

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