YSK: lemmy.ml is managed by tankies, and lead lemmy developer is a tankie

Lead Lemmy Developer, Dessalines, denying the Tiananmen Square Massacre and praising the Uyghur Genocide

https://sh.itjust.works/post/8419342

Dessalines AKA "parentis_shotgun" on Reddit, is the main Lemmy dev, also the admin of lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml.

Their post and discussions on Reddit (archive as the original post must have been removed):

https://web.archive.org/web/20230626055233/https://old.reddit.com/r/communism/comments/cqgztr/fuck_the_white_supremacist_reddit_admins_want_me/

Please join the discussions for Lemmy.ml tankie censorship problem:

https://lemmy.world/post/16211417

And the discussions for finding/creating alternative communities on other instances:

https://lemmy.world/post/16235541

What is a tankie?

Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support acts of repression by such regimes or their allies. More specifically, the term has been applied to those who express support for one-party Marxist–Leninist socialist republics, whether contemporary or historical.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie

SolNine ,

Here I am... Joined Lemmy.ml because it was supposed to be a security, privacy and FOSS focused community. Now people are probably going to block seeing my comments.

SpaceCadet , (edited )
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

It's easy enough to switch instances, but which instance you joined is actually far less important than which communities you engage in. Rule of thumb: avoid any ...@lemmy.ml communities. Not because the communities are bad per se, but because the tankies have power there and they don't shy away from banning you from unrelated communities if you say something they don't like.

Ideally nobody who's not a tankie should create or join communities hosted on lemmy.ml anymore.

JackbyDev ,

It's easy enough to switch instances,

Yes, but... (And I know this wasn't your main point) We should still try to have instances get along and try to find some common ground. It's still annoying to migrate. If every instance admin was extremely opinionated and it made everyone jump ship between multiple instances it's still annoying.

(Admins are still free to run their instances the way they want to, I'm not saying they necessarily should change.)

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

We should still try to have instances get along and try to find some common ground

Common ground can only be had with reasonable people you actually have common ground with. Personally I think it's a fool's errand to try to talk sense into the lemmy.ml admins.

The only solution I see is to salvage what we can from the bona fide communities that still reside on lemmy.ml and then put a big fence around it, so can have their toxic waste dump of an instance all to themselves.

It’s still annoying to migrate

I've switched instances three or four times when I was still getting my bearings on lemmy. I didn't really find it annoying. The only tedious part is resubscribing to the communities you were in, but there are tools for that.

joenforcer ,

Joined Lemmy.ml because it was supposed to be a security, privacy and FOSS focused community

Yep that's the line the developers put up there to lure people in. It's mildly disingenuous at best. Having to copy a line from a document titled "The Principles of Communism" just to sign up should've tipped you off that something was a bit weird.

Join an instance that has more lax federation standards and subscribe to the ml communities you care about, or get comfortable with defederation and people from other instances discarding your opinions. It's a choice you need to make.

lukecooperatus ,

Having to copy a line from a document titled "The Principles of Communism" just to sign up should've tipped you off that something was a bit weird.

Uh what? How is it weird to have a mild anti-bot task in a registration process? That's pretty normal.

If you're objecting to the content in the text, well that's just silly. A communist instance referencing communist writings is not "weird", that'd be entirely within the realm of reasonable expectation.

If you feel so threatened by the mere presence of communism in your bubble, maybe don't try to join an instance by and for them? How dare the dastardly communists be so happy and welcoming to everyone!

joenforcer ,

I was trying to point out the hypocrisy of branding your instance to be about privacy and security when tankie-glorified regimes don't respect that at all, and they're instead mildly pushing people in that direction. Why not use something from the EFF pages on those topics? Nice strawman, though.

archomrade ,

I don't know that privacy and security are mutually exclusive to communism

SolNine ,

Honestly, I joined Lemmy pretty early on... So I have no idea if I even had to type that, if I did, I have no recollection of it.

hamid ,
@hamid@lemmy.world avatar

I'm so fucking tired of people complaining about tankies, grow the fuck up this is like 20k people at most on beta software. Chill the fuck out. All the effort out into this post was a waste of your life.

cloudless OP ,
@cloudless@lemmy.cafe avatar

When I am tired of a post, I either downvote or ignore the post.

You seem to care enough to leave a comment, thanks.

hamid ,
@hamid@lemmy.world avatar

Ironic because instead of just downvoting lemmy.ml posts you don't like you wrote this long winded unnecessarily life wasting post. Imagine being you and spending an hour collecting links for a point literally no one cares about. Touch grass.

cloudless OP ,
@cloudless@lemmy.cafe avatar

Yeah because I care enough to speak against tankies. Thanks.

beardown ,

And people care enough to speak against autistic CIA assets like yourself

Rhoeri ,
@Rhoeri@lemmy.world avatar

Only a coward would think autism is an insult.

tobogganablaze ,

You sure seem to care a whole lot.

Urist ,
@Urist@lemmy.ml avatar

I get why you have nothing more than a surface-level understanding of the content of your own post when you take someone disagreeing with you as reaffirment that you must have been right in the first place. I ask you to consider whether it is possible that how you perceive these so-called tankies is tainted by your willful lack of understanding of their positions.

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

!de_ml

lorty ,
@lorty@lemmy.ml avatar

Don't lemmy.worlders like to defed for slight disagreements? Just do it and save us from your brainworms.

ssj2marx ,

Lead Lemmy Developer, Dessalines, denying the Tiananmen Square Massacre and praising the Uyghur Genocide

Lying about what the other side says does your case no favors. Tankies don't deny that violence happened on June 4th 1989, what we deny is the Reddit version of the narrative where 10,000 people were literally crushed under the treads of tanks, a narrative which has no evidence whatsoever. The CPC's version of events, that the square was emptied after a truck carrying PLA soldiers was firebombed and that clashes between violent protestors and police resulted in hundreds of deaths, is on the other hand fully supported by the available evidence.

We do deny the Uyghur genocide, because that never happened. It is 100% a fantasy constructed by a certain evangelical nut. The most realistic critique of the Chinese government you can make on this issue is that some innocent people were swept up by a large-scale police action, which yeah that always happens when there's a large scale police action, but in this case the results speak for themselves as Xinjiang today is a wealthier, healthier, and totally terrorism-free province compared to how it was ten years ago, despite the fact that it is adjacent to Taliban-controlled Afghanistan and that extremist orgs operating in the region have received outside funding.

phoenixz ,

So you deny that the massacre happend, and you deny that the Uyghur genocide is happening. Both are quite extensively documented by now and denying them is historical revisioning. Denying that there is any evidence whatsoever is not much different from the "intelligent design" movement denying evolution because of lack of evidence. If you keep your fingers in your ears, screaming "LALALLA I CANNOT HEAR YOU", then yeah, it's hard to see any evidence.

The "some innocent people were swept up" shows painfully well how much you brush off the work and reeducation camps as an innocent side effect.

Left or right extremist, it doesn't matter. You're all a sad bunch funded by governments who want to destabilize the rest of the world. Tell Winnie Pooh I said Hi.

ssj2marx ,

The "Boston Massacre" killed like five people, significantly more died in the June Fourth Incident. If you want to call it a "massacre" that's your prerogative just as it's mine to call it an "incident", which I choose to do because there is significant evidence that the Chinese police and military were peaceful and that it was violent protestors who started the violence.

As for Uyghur genocide, no. There is no evidence. Every time I've been presented with "evidence" of this so-called event its been a picture of a barbed wire fence around a building, or a satellite image of some buildings in a desert, or it's that video of the prisoners being moved that was in a totally different province. No genocide has ever occurred without creating thousands or millions of refugees, mass graves, a mass dehumanizing media campaign, etc - we see all of those things in Gaza, and none of them in Xinjiang.

God I wish I was funded by the Chinese government.

timmy_dean_sausage , (edited )

Both of y'all are talking a lot about evidence without posting any sources. I don't have a side in this debate, but I would like to see some of this evidence you guys keep referencing, just to further my own understanding of these historical events.

Edit: grammar.

pH3ra , (edited )
@pH3ra@lemmy.ml avatar

Wait what? A communism advocate who also develops Free and Open Source Software, which is literally communist philosphy applied to computers?

I'm blown away

Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

OP isn't taking issue with that. They're taking issue with the CPP/USSR apologetics.

Fidel_Cashflow ,
@Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml avatar

A communist who supports communism?? GASP!!

Belastend ,

You can be communist without sucking stalins cock or looking massacres and going "we didnt do and if we did it wasnt that bad, and if it was, they probably deserved it." Its the uncritical idolation of the dictatorial aspects of communist projects that i object to.

ArmokGoB ,

The CPP and USSR are about as communist as the DPRK is democratic.

Fidel_Cashflow ,
@Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml avatar

Lmao okay bud, I'm sure you've done lots and lots of research on the topic 🤭

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, but also they're tankies. That's basically Putler's Russia if it were a Lemmy instance.

pachrist ,

Yeah, about a year ago when all the "wow, lemmy really feels like an edgy early internet discussion forum" threads were popping up, I think people forgot that those early forums were just eternal flame wars between communists and anarchists.

oce ,
@oce@jlai.lu avatar

Communism didn't invent empathy, humanism, solidarity, freedom or free sharing; it probably grew from there, and other things like FOSS can grow from there without being communist.

pH3ra ,
@pH3ra@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah I didn't mean that FOSS was born out of communism, I believe culturally/antropologically speaking is more a direct product of the hippie movements from the 60s.
What I meant is that FOSS is aimed at "giving the means of production back to the people" and "rejecting the privatization of intellectual property" (Stallman talked about those concepts in many interviews) and those are of the core principles in Marx's philosophy.
I know that for some people "communism" can be a trigger word, but there's a big difference between a philosophy and an authority.

Also "empathy, humanism, solidarity...": have you ever interacted with people on GitHub?

jabjoe , (edited )
@jabjoe@feddit.uk avatar

It's not really communism. It's all about freedom to compete. The bazaar is a market after all.

Note: Reference to The Cathedral and the Bazaar. Worth at least knowing of in regard to open source history.

zecg ,
@zecg@lemmy.world avatar

YSK

Why should I give a fuck

TankovayaDiviziya ,

Because fuck you if you are tankie apologist.

zecg ,
@zecg@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, but the dude who makes my sandwiches might be one as well...

TankovayaDiviziya ,

Then fuck him as well.

dependencyinjection ,

Surely the correct thing to do is move along if you don’t care.

We don’t care that you don’t care.

thoro , (edited )

The FUD spreaders continuing to spread FUD. You know what's great for Lemmy, this platform you're using that was developed by that Dev you're coming for? Inter instance drama, surely.

Cold War 2 bullshit.

Xylight , (edited )
@Xylight@lemdro.id avatar

No problem. Of course, you can always change the instance to something else if you dislike the default.

Edit: the first time I tried Sync it replied to the top level post instead of what I actually replied to.

Xylight , (edited )
@Xylight@lemdro.id avatar

No problem, fuckingkangaroos.

Edit: the first time I tried Sync it replied to the top level post instead of what I actually replied to.

scorpious ,

Well this is news to me. The whole thing; created by Marxists, etc, etc.

Wtf?

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

This gets posted here on a near daily basis, I'm not sure how you missed it.

.world and .ml have been feuding practically since Lemmy went live. The .world folks insist .ml are full of fascist tankies who hate freedom. The .ml folks deride .world as a cesspool of white nationalism and hatred of the third world.

But the "problem" appears to be that one instance can't shut down the other. So we get these endless struggle sessions with the same angry sets of links and vows to defederate at all costs.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Hot take: .world will put it to a vote and defed from .ml before .ml does. This will split Lemmy into 2 major sections.

ShitOnABrick , (edited )
@ShitOnABrick@lemmy.world avatar

Not really a "hot take"

ArmokGoB ,

No way the LW admins would shut down controversy. It would impact their engagement and they wouldn't get to see number go up.

toaster ,
@toaster@slrpnk.net avatar

Thank goodness nobody is locked into any one instance. The beauty of the fediverse.

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

good thing I'm a furry tbh

SuspiciousCatThing ,

Why doesn't your name have an @instance beside it?

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

Hmmmmm

SuspiciousCatThing ,

Am I crazy or do I also not have one?

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

It's cuz we're server buddies!

SuspiciousCatThing ,

Ahh that makes sense.

scorpious ,

So is it … the “whole thing”? I.e., Lemmy was invented / created / etc. by a bunch of authoritarian weirdos?

I’m guessing that the question itself reveals that I don’t even understand what Lemmy is, but hey. Any help appreciated.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Lemmy was invented / created / etc. by a bunch of authoritarian weirdos?

Lemmy was created explicitly to get away from the Reddit brand of authoritarian weirdos. Then it was made to be fungible and mutable and interconnectable in order to prevent any single mod or admin from exerting Reddit-like control over the communities at-large.

I don’t even understand what Lemmy is

It's a place to post. You don't have to get much deeper than that. So much of this drama is one group of people angry at another group of people for posting wrong.

Which is very classic "old Reddit" before the mods decided dissent was bad for monetization.

ShitOnABrick , (edited )
@ShitOnABrick@lemmy.world avatar

It's funny Lemmy was created as a way to get away from "Reddit brand authotarian weirdos" yet Lemmy's creator is a "Reddit brand authotarian weirdo" and so is most of the main moderation team on ml and elsewhere you'll think that with there combined experience on Reddit that they'lld learnt by now that censorship is bad. But then again what am I saying with my experience with tankies and socialists I've learnt a lot of them aren't that bright

It's funny and ironic that the creator of this platform has become the very thing he apparently despises although I'm not surprised to be brutally honest commies do love their censorship

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Except the Lemmy design isn't authoritarian and it isn't being ruthlessly monetized.

Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between being censored publicly and being uninvited privately.

Kalcifer , (edited )
@Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works avatar

Your apparent antagonism towards the lead Lemmy developer is sensationalist and non-constructive. If you dislike their moderation then the solution is simple: leave their instances and communities. If your user does not reside on their instances then its admins cannot silence you. If you do not participate in their communities, then their moderators cannot silence you. If you do not wish to see their users then block their instances (though, I would still advise against this). Your argument is founded upon the premise that you don't like their opinions, so just don't listen. Don't taint the Lemmyverse's image with your false alarmism. Be the change that you wish to see. Start an instance with administrative rules that you think are better. Start a community with moderation rules that you think are better. If one finds that they are needing to resort to ad-homenim to gather support, then I would advise one to critically analyze their position and arguments.

EDIT (2024-06-07T19:25Z): From your other comments in this thread I see that you are advocating for the creation of new communities and for people to individually distance themselves from lemmy.ml, rather than defederation. I agree with this. I still disagree, however, with the approach and tone that you used in your post. I think the same end can and should be achieved without ad-homenim attacks.

Dasus ,

Why is criticism never accepted?

Why is it "leave" instead of addressing the issues brought up?

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Because of federation.

If this were an internal issue with Lemmy.ml, ie the people on Lemmy.ml are collectively in favor of change, then it's different. If people outside of Lemmy.ml want to change Lemmy.ml, doesn't it make more sense to just build up what you think is better, so you don't need Lemmy.ml at all?

Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

It's not that simple though due to the Federation. The .ml community are blended together with everything.

Asking for more reasonable moderation isn't a big ask.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Is the Lemmy.ml instance federated with everyone against their will?

This is basically a smear campaign, Lemmy.world has been on an anti-Communist witch hunt for a long time, always has been. Marxists of all varieties are targeted by this witch hunt, when Lemmy.world can defederate at any time. Lemmy.ml's admins want to have a connected fediverse, so they have already stated that they won't defed .world, so .world's users can either block, defederate, or learn to live with it.

That's the entire point of federation, really.

nahuse ,

But what if I don't want to live in my own echo chamber, nor do I want to be subjected to another echo chamber within which I can't participate? Having fair moderation practices and not banning people from participating in completely unrelated subs doesn't seem like too much to ask.

In my view this being completely about .world not liking .ml politics is a straw man. This is about decorum and applying moderation practices equally, without bias, and avoiding punitive bans in unrelated communities.

archomrade ,

You can simultaneously be in both chambers, that's the nice thing about federation

I think it's healthy for people to be pushed into modulating their own behavior when in mixed company, I think it encourages a richer and more challenging experience. I wouldn't waltz into my local catholic church and start complaining about their stance on gay marriage, and then get mad when they decide they don't want me there anymore. If you want to participate in that community, you have to find a way to communicate with them without crossing that ideological threshold. And if you're just too dissimilar to get along at all then by golly, maybe that community isn't a great fit.

Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

You can simultaneously be in both chambers, that’s the nice thing about federation

Not if they ban you for asking the most basic of questions about moderation, or for having a different opinion.

Banning people for having different opinions is bad.

archomrade ,

In my experience, "just asking questions" is never just asking questions, but I suppose that's me presuming guilt

I've asked plenty of questions there and have never had a run in with their mods. I have to assume the question was insulting or disingenuous, or both.

But hey you can always make an account elsewhere and try again under better circumstances

Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

"Why are there so many comments removed in this thread?" is a legitimate question.

archomrade ,

That's funny because I run into that regularly on .world but I've never thought 'there must be a mod abusing their moderation right now'

Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

That's on you then.

archomrade ,

Actually I think it's on the people who go to .ml specifically to make an ideological statement

nahuse ,

I think you and me would get along great if we met in person.

But I hate your web personality, friend. At least so far.

I’m choosing to just reply to this comment to you in this particular thread, because I’m a bit exhausted after talking to this linkerbaan fella in another thread. But I think you and I could really see eye to eye on a bunch of things, assuming I’m not mixing you up with somebody else.

I like your moxie, if you’ll excuse any condescension you may detect (it’s not there, I promise).

But this shit is precisely why I wanna have a good internet space for legit debate. I sincerely hope I can find a spot that offers an open forum for some good faith political debate that isn’t moderated based on butt-hurt-ed-ness.

archomrade ,

But this shit is precisely why I wanna have a good internet space for legit debate

Then create a political debate comm? What's stopping you from doing that? I'd personally block that community immediately, because online debate bros have probably the least tolerable kind of online behavior. Thinking you can walk into someone else's community and start 'political debate' is probably why you can't understand their moderation - if I was the mod I'd ban you too

I'm familiar with linkerbann, I like seeing him around

Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

This is basically a smear campaign

If showing failures in moderation constitutes a smear campaign, maybe don't go banning people because they disagree with you.

archomrade ,

It's only a failure of moderation from your outside perspective, I'm sure people inside .ml might feel differently

Katana314 ,

I had a calm, respectful comment about China's attempts to censor the Tiananmen Square photo removed for no reason, and without my knowledge. The idea that they're conducting "normal moderation" is laughable.

archomrade ,

why does it matter if you think it's normal? it's not your instance

Katana314 ,

This post is about informing people about the nature of that instance; something many people don't necessarily intend to interface with when they're just exploring their favorite niche topic community which simply happens to be there. We don't want people to unintentionally end up in that crowd without knowing about their principles or lack thereof.

archomrade ,

Well I certainly agree it's good to be aware of the expectations of that instance if you plan on participating there, but that doesn't make their way of moderating their forum yours to judge.

But yea, it seems some people here who are complaining about being banned or having content removed could benefit from being more aware of the expectations of the forum their engaging with. I could have sworn I read you complaining about being banned for something I could have told you is likely to earn you a ban... Must've been someone else I guess.

Kalcifer ,
@Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works avatar

There is no issue with either. I fully support civil criticism and discussion. And I also support users moving to a place where they feel a better sense of community. I think it's wrong to force people to interact with those that they don't wish to. This is why the fediverse exists — to remove centralized control over the discourse.

Dasus ,

And I also support users moving to a place where they feel a better sense of community.

How about supporting users who want to improve their community instead of finding a new one?

If you don't like it, you can leave.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Are people on Lemmy.ml advocating to improve their community, or is it just .worlders wanting to change .ml?

Kalcifer ,
@Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works avatar

It's likely both. The ratio, however, I'm not sure of.

Kalcifer ,
@Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works avatar

How about supporting users who want to improve their community instead of finding a new one?

I support that as well. My initial point was from the perspective of users not originating from lemmy.ml being annoyed with how lemmy.ml is administrating itself. If the users of lemmy.ml wish to stay to try and improve it, then I fully stand behind them, but, at the same time, I still support lemmy.ml's autonomy.

eskimofry ,

Hey, this is the history of human civilization since humans existed. You want an answer for why people don't give up on their ideologies?

archomrade ,

Anyone else seeing the irony of objecting to ml politics being discussed on a platform built by a ml for discussing and organizing around ml politics?

johannesvanderwhales ,

Not really, it's software which specifically allows people to defederate, so it's by design that you'd have splinters.

archomrade ,

Right, which is why pointing this out is especially silly

nahuse ,

To clarify, since this topic is something that I have experienced quite a lot over my two months here, now: I do not have any problem whatsoever with tankie/communist/leftist politics. I also don't have a problem with people discussing them.

What I do have a problem with is:

  • ad hom attacks calling me a "lib" when I question whether authoritarianism on the left is really much better than authoritarianism on the right
  • unequal moderation, ie. being banned/having comments deleted for giving the same bitchy energy I receive over the course of a debate, without the same enforcement of the other user
  • having a long conversation, in good faith, about politics, media, and disinformation, including providing sources and reading sources in return, with mods and then finding the entire thread deleted because I said something critical of China, or insisted on alternative, nongovernmental sources for news
  • having these activities result in bans from subs that I have never commented in, and being unable to appeal or understand them

And I think it's ok to think that these practices are inherently bad for a social media platform, and working with others to advocate against those practices.

archomrade , (edited )

The entire point of federated social media is there isn't centralized control: every instance is able to set their own rules and enforce them how they choose to. They don't have to allow you to use their instance and you don't have to allow them yours.

"I don't like how they're moderating me" - well good thing they built the platform so you can choose moderation that suits you better

nahuse ,

I understand your point, but when a group of ideologues has de facto control over one of/some of the largest entities on a social media platform, and bans people for ideology without warning, explanation, or recourse, this amounts to centralized control, or at the very least undue influence.

For me personally, it wouldn't be a big issue if .ml made its bend and moderation practices clear, because I could have avoided the headache when I was first using lemmy. I wouldn't choose to engage with a forum that has "no critique of any country that calls itself Communist is allowed, anywhere, ever, for any reason, or we will bar you from participating in all communities on this platform" and I'm sure a lot of others feel the same way. What's more, I bet the admin of .ml know that, too, and keep these practices opaque because they are interested in new users.

Why don't .ml users retreat to hexbear or lemmygrad, if making the moderation practices on one of the largest instances fair is so odious?

archomrade ,

Why don’t .ml users retreat to hexbear or lemmygrad, if making the moderation practices on one of the largest instances fair is so odious?

lmao the gall of complaining about not being allowed to espouse your ideological opinion on their instance, and then suggesting they should be the ones to retreat to a different space.

For me personally, it wouldn’t be a big issue if .ml made its bend and moderation practices clear, because I could have avoided the headache when I was first using lemmy.

Well it seems like all those people are able to understand and live by those moderation practices just fine, maybe it's a good thing that you're not on .ml? Lemmy.ml has been happily existing as their own thing and their own rules, don't you think it's a little backwards that you're suggesting they relinquish their community so that... what, everyone who's not currently a part of .ml can move in? Is this a new form of digital colonialism I'm just not aware of?

If you really don't like .ml then block them, or get your instance admins to de-federate, or, idk, maybe just know whose house you're in when you're engaging in arguments along ideological fault lines? They have a different opinion than you and don't tolerate users who push that boundary, that doesn't sound unreasonable when there are 600 or so other servers you could move to or start your own. If they haven't banned you outright congratulations, you get another chance to participate.

IDK, I've somehow managed to avoid more than 1 or 2 comment removals on any of the instances (despite being infamous in .world for getting into it all the fucking time) over the last year, maybe it's not a problem with their moderation but a problem with... dare I say it?... you?

Facebones ,

Why don't the all the pro ML users leave the .ML instance

Hey, look, its why nobody takes you seriously.

nahuse ,

So are you just generally an asshole, or just right now?

Facebones ,

You're arguing that the people who BUILT LEMMY and the people who have been around long before some Reddit drama should bail on their own instance, built to be their instance for their purposes, for YOUR comfort.

Maybe re-evaluate what "being an asshole" means before you go around calling people names.

nahuse ,

Oh.

toaster ,
@toaster@slrpnk.net avatar

I take issue with both the authoritarian left and authoritarian right: being an apologist for Soviet Russia as well as being an apologist for the USA is not OK in my opinion.

I find it futile to take a position on which is worse because that just gives space to be an apologist for one that's "less bad". I see this happening in this thread right now.

Should I defederate from both lemmy.world and lemmy.ml? Of course not. In fact, I find both to be more tolerable and cooperative than reddit today.

oce ,
@oce@jlai.lu avatar

Do you find lemmy.world defending the USA wrongdoing to be of a comparable extent as lemmy.ml defending the authoritarian left regimes wrongdoing?
I feel like lemmy.world is still pretty left compared to reddit and very commonly criticizing all the stupid wars the USA have been into as well as its support for Israel in its current war.

toaster ,
@toaster@slrpnk.net avatar

That's a good question. To be honest with you, I've come across critiques of tankies on .ml as well as tankie nonsense. I've also come across some progressive discussion as well as USA apologism on .world.

So in my personal experience (may differ from others based on what communities we frequent) I haven't experienced so much tankie or American apologist content that I've felt the need to leave either community.

I agree with your sentiment that .world is left of reddit - as is Lemmy in general.

What I have been seeing is some users on .world coming across any tankies and wanting to defederate while seeing some amounts of pro-US imperialism on .world but ignoring it since (imo) we're desensitised to it especially coming from reddit.

I do not find that tankies define the communities I frequent on .ml any more than pro-US imperialism defines .world.

anticolonialist ,

Enlightened centrist found in the wild

toaster ,
@toaster@slrpnk.net avatar

You can be left-leaning while also not a fan of neoliberalism. :)

Catsrules ,

As long as the developers don't force their political views on people using the software I really don't see an issue.

You could argue they aren't doing it today but what about tomorrow?

Well I would say everything is open source. If something does change that you don't agree with you can just take the code and build your own. (Obviously with blackjack and hookers)

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