YSK: lemmy.ml is managed by tankies, and lead lemmy developer is a tankie

Lead Lemmy Developer, Dessalines, denying the Tiananmen Square Massacre and praising the Uyghur Genocide

https://sh.itjust.works/post/8419342

Dessalines AKA "parentis_shotgun" on Reddit, is the main Lemmy dev, also the admin of lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml.

Their post and discussions on Reddit (archive as the original post must have been removed):

https://web.archive.org/web/20230626055233/https://old.reddit.com/r/communism/comments/cqgztr/fuck_the_white_supremacist_reddit_admins_want_me/

Please join the discussions for Lemmy.ml tankie censorship problem:

https://lemmy.world/post/16211417

And the discussions for finding/creating alternative communities on other instances:

https://lemmy.world/post/16235541

What is a tankie?

Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support acts of repression by such regimes or their allies. More specifically, the term has been applied to those who express support for one-party Marxist–Leninist socialist republics, whether contemporary or historical.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie

Xylight , (edited )
@Xylight@lemdro.id avatar

No problem. Of course, you can always change the instance to something else if you dislike the default.

Edit: the first time I tried Sync it replied to the top level post instead of what I actually replied to.

thoro , (edited )

The FUD spreaders continuing to spread FUD. You know what's great for Lemmy, this platform you're using that was developed by that Dev you're coming for? Inter instance drama, surely.

Cold War 2 bullshit.

GenderNeutralBro ,

Regarding lemmy.ml: yes, you should avoid it. It does not make sense to create politically-neutral communities on a politically-oriented instance.

Regarding Dessalines: The great thing about Lemmy is that I don't need to give a shit about the lead developer's politics, because he's not in control of how Lemmy is used, and if he ever tried some kind of heinous cross-instance power grab, it would get shut down before it got started.

Regarding the cognitive dissonance required to A) value decentralization of power, and also B) support the CCP: 🤦

kersplomp ,

Regarding the cognitive dissonance required to A) value decentralization of power, and also B) support the CCP: 🤦

It's simple: People who gain from misinformation create platforms that empower bots and sockpuppets.

fuckingkangaroos ,

Bingo

sushibowl ,

Regarding the cognitive dissonance required to A) value decentralization of power, and also B) support the CCP: 🤦

One of the tenets of Marxism-Leninism is that a dictatorship is required to guide the proletariat to communist society (which would be completely stateless). So the dissonance is inherent in Leninist dogma 🤷

Cowbee , (edited )
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Dictatorship of the Proletariat. This is used in contrast with Capitalist Liberal Democracy, which Marx called the Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie. It doesn't refer to a literal Dictatorship as we commonly understand it, but instead to whichever class controls the state, Capitalists or Workers.

Lenin didn't invent the concept of the DotP, that was Marx, and was his way of advocating for violent revolution, which in Engels words is "the most authoritarian action one could take" in his essay On Authourity.

As for Communism being Stateless, yes, technically, but as a long result of elimination of contradictions. Marx didn't see the state as an "evil" so much as a tool that would eventually just be unnecessary, same as Money, not a temporary sacrifice for something eventually greater. This is outlined in Critique of the Gotha Programme.

sushibowl ,

All well and good, but the term dictatorship here still refers to a situation where the state apparatus has complete control over the means of production, in other words a total centralisation of power. Indeed in Marxism-Leninism the dictatorship takes the form of a vanguard party forming a single party state. Whichever way you look at it, practical power resides with a very small group of individuals.

The contrast with the eventual stateless communist society, in which power would be completely decentralised, is quite striking. It's not quite clear to me how Marxist-Leninist theory envisioned the transition from one to the other, although it seems to me there was a general feeling that central economic planning and industrialization would fairly quickly lead to the end of scarcity altogether, which in hindsight seems... very optimistic.

If you ask me, the ideals of communism mostly died around the same time as Lenin. Pretty much all communist states that have existed (and currently exist) are mainly interested in maintaining their own power structures rather than actually working their way towards the idealised communist society. Which pretty much just makes them dictatorships in the classical sense.

Cowbee , (edited )
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Yes, Marx and later Lenin argued for complete centralization of power in the hands of the proletariat, and in Lenin's case, an additional group of well-read proletarians dedicated to leading the revolution.

A common misconception is that a non-ML revolution wouldn't have a vanguard, Lenin is literally just referring to whoever is the most advanced and leading the revolution. A vanguard may be a group of Anarchists trying to lead the revolution, even if they don't use Democratic Centralism like Lenin did and advocates for in State and Revolution.

Marx also didn't believe there would one day be a state and the next it would collapse, same with Lenin. They believed that over time the Material Conditions would lessen the need for a state until it "whithered away" over time. It wouldn't be a relinquishing of power, but a shrinking.

Complete statelessness would have the same centralized power as Socialism, just without a state. This centralization becomes a decentralization, in that the Proletariat can democratically operate the Means of Production, which they cannot under Capitalism. If this sounds confusing, Marx makes this clear in Critique of the Gotha Programme. You refer to the state as an "other," distinct from the workers, when it is an extension of them and made up of them in Socialism, according to Marx. There would still be a government, just no means by which one class oppresses another.

Marx was not an Anarchist, who instead believe in free association and networks of mutual aid.

I don't believe Communism has died. It may seem that way if you see systems as static, and not as ever-changing and evolving along with humanity and technology.

Cybermonk_Taiji ,

Isn't it interesting how wrong they all were? Interesting.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Capitalists? Yep.

OwlYaYeet ,

What about Marxist-Lemmyism?

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

It's basically the underpants gnomes meme

  1. Dictatorship
  2. ???
  3. Utopia!
lorty ,
@lorty@lemmy.ml avatar

Don't lemmy.worlders like to defed for slight disagreements? Just do it and save us from your brainworms.

kilgore_trout ,
@kilgore_trout@feddit.it avatar

Who cares. This is pointless drama.

Doom ,

Your username and saying this is so ironic

Esqplorer ,

It's really not unless you think Kurt would have been terminally online.

TxzK ,
@TxzK@lemmy.zip avatar

And here's him praising an ethnic cleansing

cloudless OP , (edited )
@cloudless@lemmy.cafe avatar

Yeah. Please note that phtn.app dev refused to change the default instance. I have moved back to Voyager since.

Edit: this has been resolved now. Photon has changed default instance to lemmy.ee

Illecors ,
@Illecors@lemmy.cafe avatar

I haven't announced it, yet, but I've been testing ph.lemmy.cafe for some time now if that's your cup of tea.

cloudless OP ,
@cloudless@lemmy.cafe avatar

Thanks. Photon is decent but I would use Voyager instead out of principle. Would you add v.lemmy.cafe?

Illecors ,
@Illecors@lemmy.cafe avatar

I'll consider it. Need to manage the available resources a bit first.

Blisterexe ,
@Blisterexe@lemmy.zip avatar

They're going to change it soon.

Source: I asked them on matrix

cloudless OP ,
@cloudless@lemmy.cafe avatar

That's good news. I will move back to Photon when that happens. Thanks for letting me know.

Xylight ,
@Xylight@lemdro.id avatar

Done

fuckingkangaroos ,

Thank you

cloudless OP ,
@cloudless@lemmy.cafe avatar

Thank you very much! Now I feel much more comfortable using Photon.

Thanks again for developing it and making it open source.

Xylight ,
@Xylight@lemdro.id avatar

I never refused. In fact, it's already been changed to lemm.ee

Illuminostro ,

And you linking to a direct malware .zip package.

Blaze ,
@Blaze@reddthat.com avatar

Lemmy.zip name is really unfortunate

SeeJayEmm ,
@SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org avatar

The whole .zip TLD is really unfortunate.

4am ,

Yeah, people pushed Google on that one specifically and they still went and did it. It should be removed.

sylver_dragon ,

As a worker in the Cybersecurity space, it's absolutely fantastic for job security.

stevedidwhat_infosec ,

Imagine making a claim like this and being so lazy that you couldn’t even throw it into virus total to confirm your hypothesis

Stop making wild ass assumptions and trying to peddle it as truth. It makes you look bad

StupidBrotherInLaw ,

He's not praising an ethnic cleansing. He elsewhere has claimed that the ethnic cleansing/concentration camp narrative is entirely western propaganda and isn't happening at all. Instead, it's some sort of... Incarceration, deradicalization, and rehabilitation program? Hell, I don't know.

Either way, he already does and says enough things to criticize, let's not make up more. It just makes us look just as dumb.

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

!de_ml

Diva ,
@Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

Mods are tankies? Waow

Allero ,

Worse. Devs are tankies :D

PedroG14 ,

Waow

Cosmicomical ,

...and?

deranger ,

I had my first ever comment, in decades of forums/reddit usage, get mod deleted because I was critical of China and the USSR. It was a fairly mild criticism. That action turned me off the whole instance.

cloudless OP ,
@cloudless@lemmy.cafe avatar

They learn from who they are worshipping. Exactly how the CCP control the narratives.

fuckingkangaroos ,

They learn from who they are worshipping pays them and might disappear them if they say the wrong thing.

realitista ,

Sad that you chose an .ml community to come back to. You can't talk about Russia or China at all without getting deleted there, unless it's saying that Tienamen Square never happened or something like that.

Speculater ,
@Speculater@lemmy.world avatar

Same here, but they tried to claim I called a Steam Deck a "Rice Burner" as a racist insult when I randomly chose "rice" as the title for this meme to fill the mandatory title block. https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/401adc6d-b735-4496-96e1-cf688536068e.jpeg

Like, bro? Even if that was my intent, which it wasn't even a term I had ever seen applied to a computer, it doesn't make sense.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Another astounding revelation from Reddit.world 😲

bloodfart ,

Dang if you like free speech so much, why not federate with hexbear about it?

electric_nan ,

YSK: you will never see more pathetic whining than people on Lemmy constantly complaining about "tankies". Full disclosure: I have been called a tankie one time in two years on Lemmy. I commented on a post that was basically jerking off to the idea that Japan would repeat its atrocities against China in the event that there was a war over Taiwan. I expressed doubt that it would go very smoothly, for which I was banned and labeled a tankie.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Lemmy.world is like a Trump echo chamber. They keep screaming about their imaginary tankies on .ml but when you go on .ml there's less tankies than Zionists on .world

StupidBrotherInLaw ,

I've actually seen real tankie rhetoric on occasion, but tankie is becoming Lemmy.world's woke. It increasingly means something that certain people don't like.

The hysteria is mostly promulgated and perpetuated by a small number of people. It's just easy karma farming for some (PugJesus/Yeetpics) while others seem to actually have an issue with tankies and/or the bonkers censorship on lemmy.ml. If you block the former group and their alts, the amount of whining lessens significantly, mostly leaving people with honest issues with actual tankies.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

Lemmy was built by those tankies you disagree with. Numerous accounts have discredited the official US bullshit about Tiananmen Square and the fake Uyghur Genocide.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Lol loser

StupidBrotherInLaw , (edited )

Damn son, you sure showed him! With a one-two punch of clever wording and masterful insight, you showed us all the level of wit and intellect anyone will have to deal with if they dare to... pull the ripcord@lemmy.world.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Yes

hightrix ,

Mind linking to a post discrediting the “official is bullshit about Tiananmen square”? I’m genuinely curious about the counter arguments.

alcoholicorn , (edited )

I have to link it on hexbear as the .ml admins deleted the post for being orientalist af.

But more simply: Here's the full video of Tank Man.

Note that in the beginning, you can see the square, there are not hundreds of thousands of machine-gunned protesters being crushed into paste by tanks, burned, and sprayed down the drain, as the official US narrative goes.

There's also this context: https://media.mas.to/media_attachments/files/112/563/782/759/076/800/original/d60c38f786621419.mp4

We know the western narrative is entirely fictional, we can't verify that the chinese narrative is 100% accurate, but none of the evidence disproves it, so it's probably closer to the Chinese narrative that 250-300 people died in battles in the streets surrounding the square.

aubeynarf ,

Can you link or provide reference to the official US narrative?

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

Wikileak cables

More Wikileaks diplomatic cables

culprit ,
@culprit@lemmy.ml avatar

https://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/the_myth_of_tiananmen.php

Columbia Law Review

The Myth of Tiananmen
And the price of a passive press

June 4, 2010

A few people may have been killed by random shooting on streets near the square, but all verified eyewitness accounts say that the students who remained in the square when troops arrived were allowed to leave peacefully. Hundreds of people, most of them workers and passersby, did die that night, but in a different place and under different circumstances.

The Chinese government estimates more than 300 fatalities. Western estimates are somewhat higher. Many victims were shot by soldiers on stretches of Changan Jie, the Avenue of Eternal Peace, about a mile west of the square, and in scattered confrontations in other parts of the city, where, it should be added, a few soldiers were beaten or burned to death by angry workers.

FireTower ,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

https://youtu.be/kMKvxJ-Js3A

krolden ,
@krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

Are you people getting paid to post about this holy shit what the fuck?

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