Zelensky: 'Our partners fear that Russia will lose this war' ( kyivindependent.com )

President Volodymyr Zelensky believes that Ukraine's partners "are afraid of Russia losing the war" and would like Kyiv "to win in such a way that Russia does not lose," Zelensky said in a meeting with journalists attended by the Kyiv Independent.

Kyiv's allies "fear" Russia's loss in the war against Ukraine because it would involve "unpredictable geopolitics," according to Zelensky. "I don't think it works that way. For Ukraine to win, we need to be given everything with which one can win," he said.

His statement came on May 16 amid Russia's large-scale offensive in Kharkiv Oblast and ongoing heavy battles further east. In a week, Russian troops managed to advance as far as 10 kilometers in the northern part of Kharkiv Oblast, according to Zelensky.

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drmoose ,

The west is legit afraid of Russia's collapse because once again someone will have to bail Russia out and it'll either be another 1988 mess or a new toy for China.

What will happen to Russia once it's fully in "war economy" and loses the war?

gustavo_joaquin_rs ,

W Russia

jordanlund Mod ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Removed, trolling.

MetalMartin ,
@MetalMartin@lemmy.myserv.one avatar

Ukraine is already beaten. This is nonsense.

Hotmailer ,

Exactly. It's weird that people don't get this.

Furbag ,

It's been two years, mate. If Russia hasn't won yet, that means they can't.

MetalMartin ,
@MetalMartin@lemmy.myserv.one avatar

That's a poor analysis and untrue. Ukraine doesn't have the soldiers to defend their positions anymore. They will not be able to stop the Russian advance. You'll see soon enough. How many Ukrainians need to die still?

ROAGO ,

Z or GOP?

Spacehooks ,

What's "Z" in this context?

ROAGO ,

Z = pro invasion russian

MetalMartin ,
@MetalMartin@lemmy.myserv.one avatar

Neither.

ROAGO ,

Ah an uncommon defeatist liberal still wanting to throw in the towel this many years later. I'm guessing you were posting that Ukraine would fall in 2 days at the start and then fearmongering every military aid delivery as setting off WWIII. Might I suggest finding a new hobby? Being consistently and repeatedly wrong over the last few years can't be good for your mental health.

MetalMartin ,
@MetalMartin@lemmy.myserv.one avatar

All of your assumptions are wrong.

rusticus ,

This is and always has been a proxy war and a siege meant to exhaust Russian resources slowly and without rapidly escalating to more destructive methods.

Fedizen ,

Make an agreement to make the "disputed areas" independent of both russia and ukraine. Nobody wins. Enforce it with a pact that would draw in Nato but forbids them from joining Nato.

InternetPerson ,

Or, you know, Russia could just get the fuck out of Ukraine and leve them in peace. Much better agreement imo.

AFC1886VCC ,

We all know that's not going to happen. It's time to do something about it.

rimu ,
@rimu@piefed.social avatar

Yeah although if Russia wins it'd involve "unstable geopolitics" too.

This could be a long war.

Aux ,

I said it many times before - no one wants this war to end except for Ukrainians. It's just a very profitable venture for the rest of the world.

jabjoe ,
@jabjoe@feddit.uk avatar

Putin will want it over. It's an embarrassment to him that Ukrainians don't want him and have resisted him so effectively.

Aux ,

And lose all the money? Haha, no.

InternetPerson ,

How is it profitable?

Aux ,

Different countries profit in different ways.

US got rid of old weapons stock and pumped shit loads of money into making new weapons.

Norway started selling fuck ton of oil and gas to Europe to the point that they now own almost 2% of the world through their sovereign fund.

Heck, even North Korea has finally entered the global market through trade deals with Russia.

The list goes on. Sadly only Ukraine is suffering.

golli ,

For the US maybe, but I don't think it is profitabel for Europe.

Refugees aren't cheap (even though ukrainian people might integrate easier than others and later add value), a good part of money for weapon purchases flows towards America since they have more immediate capacities, and long term we do want to integrate Ukraine, which means Europe will ultimately bear a significant chunk of rebuilding costs.

Aux ,

Ukrainian refugees are great. They're highly educated, have high standards of work ethics and are just great people overall. I'm definitely biased as a person from xUSSR country who is also 1/4 Ukrainian myself, but I'm really glad to see more Ukrainians in Europe.

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

Kyiv’s allies “fear” Russia’s loss in the war against Ukraine because it would involve “unpredictable geopolitics,” according to Zelensky.

Is “unpredictable geopolitics” a euphemism for 'nuclear war'?

Anti Commercial-AI license (CC BY-NC-SA 4.0)

breakfastmtn OP ,
@breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca avatar

I think that's one of the meanings. If a Russian loss led to the sudden collapse of the Russian state or a radical retraction of the Russian economy, who knows what the consequences would be?

I don't think that's a justification for not letting Russia lose, but it is a big bag of who-the-fuck-knows.

Brunbrun6766 ,
@Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world avatar

Imo it's the find out part of Russians fucking around. Don't give a fuck what repercussions or hardships they face next, THEY started this shit

breakfastmtn OP ,
@breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca avatar

The concern isn't about the consequences faced by Russia, but the impact on the rest of the world. Like, if Russia were to collapse, I think most would agree that Egyptians don't deserve to find out what suddenly not having $1.7 billion in wheat would mean, right? I don't think anyone has any idea what that would mean for, say, Tajikistan and other post-Soviet states with economies closely tied to Russia. Collapse would be chaos and it wouldn't stay confined within Russia's borders.

And, again, I don't think that justifies preventing Russia from losing. There are worse concerns for Russia winning. And the idea that Russia neither winning nor losing could be a sustainable final state is probably a fantasy.

DeadPand ,

More like money people don’t want their money fucked with anymore than it has been by this war

jabjoe ,
@jabjoe@feddit.uk avatar

Be more expensive later if Putin wins, because he won't stop at Ukraine.

brain_in_a_box ,

Expensive for who?

jabjoe ,
@jabjoe@feddit.uk avatar

The free countries.

brain_in_a_box ,

Could you give an answer that doesn't sound like it's coming from a child?

InternetPerson ,

I think they meant other countries, which have liberty and democracy engraved to their core.

Also, please keep it civil. There was no need to be so condescending. If you're unhappy with the answer, there are better ways to express this. :)

brain_in_a_box ,

which have liberty and democracy engraved to their core.

See? This is what I mean: this is how a child sees the world.

Also, please keep it civil

Sorry, but I consider ultra-nationalist white supremacism to be profoundly uncivil.

nahuse ,

You’re so stupid. My goodness. What a weird set of conclusions for you to jump to.

brain_in_a_box ,

Ok child

jordanlund Mod ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Removed, civility.

jordanlund Mod ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Removed, civility

nahuse ,

Again, maybe read the context of the user who clearly spammed the report button while also continuing to instigate incivility.

He’s literally calling people children if they do not accept his false binary worldview.

jordanlund Mod ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Again, their comments weren't reported and the rest of this thread doesn't load.

Your comment WAS reported, did load, and was removed for breaking the rules.

nahuse ,

Yet the person replied to me, once again calling me a child.

It sounds like maybe you are having technical troubles.

jordanlund Mod ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

If you have a problem with another comment, report it. Don't reply in kind.

nahuse ,

People deserve to have their views confronted violently, sometimes. If you disagree that’s your prerogative as a moderator, and I’ll tone it down.

But can you please do your job and clean up the insulting comments? There should be plenty from the same user for you to choose from. They’re clearly just starting shit, without a single inkling of good faith argumentation. It should be glaringly obvious.

jordanlund Mod ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Removed, civility + temp ban for repeated issues.

jabjoe ,
@jabjoe@feddit.uk avatar

Come on, you know. EU, UK, US, etc. The old allies.

brain_in_a_box ,

Ah, yes, the country with the most people incarcerated both per capita and in absolute terms, that is currently genocideing the 2 million people its vassal has in a massive concentration camp, is part of the "free".

jabjoe ,
@jabjoe@feddit.uk avatar

To be honest, we'll see about the US. With a Trump present who doesn't like democracy and rule of law, but does like Putin, not sure how much the US can be counted on. Or how long it will stay a free country.

brain_in_a_box ,

Only a child would think it was ever a "free country".

jabjoe ,
@jabjoe@feddit.uk avatar

That is exactly how it self identifies. There is a lot to be questioned it that though. But it's a lot freer than China or Russia or many others.

brain_in_a_box ,

Oh, it "self identifies" does it? And you think all the countries you don't count as 'free countries' self identify as 'not free'?

Like I said, that's literally how a child sees the world.

But it’s a lot freer than China or Russia or many others.

Completely vibes based statement; America dwarfs both China and Russia in terms of imprisoned people, not to mention the whole "2 million person extermination camp" thing. Mention it again, I mean, as you already ignored it the first time I mentioned it.

jabjoe ,
@jabjoe@feddit.uk avatar

It literally calls itself the leader of the free world.

Yes it jails waaaayyyy too many of its own people, but voting and the rule of law still mostly work. Unlike countries like China and Russia.

brain_in_a_box ,

but voting and the rule of law still mostly work. Unlike countries like China and Russia.

See what I mean? This is the sort of thing a child believes.

jordanlund Mod ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Removed, civility.

jordanlund Mod ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Removed, civility.

jordanlund Mod ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Removed, civility.

jordanlund Mod ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Removed, civility.

alcoholicorn ,

While we really don't want a state with thousands of nukes to splinter, I doubt that any policy writers in DC feel that way, given the eulogies they gave to Navalny, a guy who had politics somewhere around Mussolini's and made Putin look like a dove.

But also the fact that we have like 8000 tanks in the desert that we're not sending tells me that they'd rather fight Russia to the last drop of Ukrainian blood than actually break Russia so who knows.

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

While we really don’t want a state with thousands of nukes to splinter

People said that would happen after the fall of the USSR too. Turns out treaties and agreements can do a lot to stop things like that quickly.

On the other hand, such an agreement is what Russia is violating right now.

Aux ,

Russia didn't splinter with the fall of the USSR. People who had control of the nukes retained their control. And Ukraine was forced to move theirs to Russia.

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