In one part every citizen is in small part accountable for their government, if nothing else then through inaction. Then again they might be leaving their country, because they or their family member took action. With all this hate will it decrease the chance of somebody taking action?
But what if we look at this from East European perspective? They were under Soviet boot for decades as second rate citizens in their own country. Russians controlling everyting through inserted puppet government. Russians spoke alot about comradeship, but their stance was clear that Russians were higher breed. Do they have more right to hate every Russian?
Hate is nothing new to Russians, they see it everywhere, due to the countries history of agressive foreign policies and spy operations.
This makes me think this is just a propaganda bit. Primarily aimed for domestic use. "Don't leave Russia, they'll just hate you."
Lady, some guys are at the door looking for you, asking "WTF?!?" In Chechen, Ossetian, and Ukrainian... Oh wait there's a guy loudly yelling in Finnish coming around the corner with his buddies from Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania... OMG they've got torches and pitchforks, saying that they're looking for their friends on this list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_notable_Russians_(2022%E2%80%932024)
I do realize that she's talking about individual Russians not being aggressive. And I know that I shouldn't find it so funny, that she's having this wake up call from the world... But I find it absolutely hilarious. You want others to like you? How about treating people better? And if your country's the problem then revolt.
You want others to like you? How about treating people better?
From a certain perspective, what she and others like her are saying is - "I hate being treated the way we treat others" - which is a lazy, mindless posture as old as time itself.
I try to put myself in their situation. As much as I am against this stupid war and Putin, if I was born in a country under dictatorship, I'd probably be brainwashed or too afraid to speak my mind too.
That this lady had no part in it and is actually trying to leave their country because of it, even leaving their families behind. Notice how she says Russians in Russia are always angry and she's looking for a calmer place to live in. The main reason for their complaint is that even though they left all the angry Russians behind, they are now facing a not-so-much bigoted and racist behaviour in a place they hoped to find less aggressive life.
And here we have these guys in the comments foaming "FAFO" in their mouths without any indicator that this Russian person has anything to do with the Russian government or ultranationalist populace, where she left behind, any more than the peace-loving U..S. citizens' being complicit in the mess their military-industry run government's actions.
Yes, riiiiiiight - as well as my grandparent generation had noooothing to do with the things that happened here in Germany during WW2.
I would get it if she'd acknowledge what her country does and state that she doesn't agree with Russia invading other countries. But this tearful "everyone treats us soooo bad", blaming everyone else.... fuck, no.
It is one thing to make an enemy in a state power, it is another to disagree and try to put it behind yourself. You can say many of the Russians in Russia are complicit in this war even if they are not directly supporting it, but many more are just some people making a living where they are born and where they usually have no easy access to leave or not be a part of.
Don't make this topic more harmful nationalistic one more than it already is. Warring states, propaganda brainwashing and violent bigots are one thing and should not be given the benefit of the doubt. The civilians that have no overt or willing part in it but caught in the literal or political/social crossfire are another thing and what makes war worse than hell because you one can't separate the two easily, but one must try.
Edit: Also your rhetoric is the same one Putin has been using for a decade in the annexed and occupied eastern Ukraine. "They are all Nazis over there" is one easy step towards the horrors of war.
"They are all Nazis over there" is something you try to put into my mouth.
I said it is the same situation in Russia where people do not speak up against what their country does. I also understand if they fear repercussions.
But this woman, who said she was in Brazil before, just whines around, "Russia is strong" and obviously is very OK with what happens or chooses to ignore it. She has been out of Russia for some time, she has seen other. media.
What I said - the same what happened in Germany is happening in Russia right now. People CHOOSING not to see and not to, speak about it.
I never said anything about "all" Russians.
Don't try to put words in my mouth.
What I expect - yes demand - from someone like this woman is acknowledging what happens.
Cannot fathom the selective hatred and racism here. Is everyone racist to every nationality every time their government does something abhorrent? Where is the hatred towards North Korean escapees? Where is the hatred towards the Chinese around the world? I could go on.. do you hate many Africans because their governments kill people for being gay?
Somehow seemingly only Russian people are villified around the world for the actions of the government
First off as an American I can assure you I have run into plenty of people who hate Americans for shit our government has done. As for Russians a lot of Russians support Putin so in turn a lot of people assume all Russians support the invasion so in turn most folks will have a bit of disdain for Russians.
Yeah. People just like hating on "evil" nations and she's here as a representative and open for people to start trashing her, so yeehaw here we go. Personally I've actually really liked Russians on an individual level any time I have interacted with them; they're generally kind of cocky / abrasive I guess, but they get shit done.
Also, she's coming across as kind of a bad person which makes it easy to start bashing her. But yeah I mostly agree with you. She didn't war crime anybody that we know of. I mean I'm from America; if we started bashing people for the war crimes their governments were committing I'd have to be at the head of the line.
I know but they swamped my country when the war started and I can tell you with full and tragic confidence that this is legit (and even worse, typical)
Because you have to be so deep up your own ass to purposefully ignore information about the atrocities committed by your country, that you could probably see the light through your mouth.
I sort kind of undertand brainwashed russians living in a russian bubble, with no access to outside information. Fine, you're fed shit all your life, so that's the only desert you've had and that's the only desert you want/need.
But this moron is out in the free world, and simply cannot underatand why, oh why could people be weary of russians? Truly the pinnacle of evolution.
While Russia is fascist as heck, it is still substantially easier to emigrate from Russia than it is to emigrate from North Korea. Also, while there is a powerful state media in Russia, they do not have complete (or near complete) control over every line of communication in and out of the country as is the case in North Korea. There's also the matter of relative wealth and ability to defy/evade government control by way of travel/media consumption/emigration.
That's a really interesting point. Maybe because the North Korean govt is seen as persecuting it's citizens. Therefore it's citizens are seen as the victims (despite some citizens being the perpetrators).
Whereas Russian citizens are seen as the perpetrators (as invading soldiers) along with the leadership and surrounding countries are seen as the victims.
I agree. I think this is spot on. It's the context. If I see Russians traveling around right now, I assume they are traveling to avoid the war, but aren't against it happening.
I feel like with these videos, it's always the Russians that are puppets to their government. Never the ones that oppose the war.
Russians that legitimately want nothing to do with their government/ want peace are cool though.
This video seemed like she was lacking an outside perspective. She says she's seeking a calmer place to live, but it sounds like she doesn't understand the context that everyone else has. Everyone is eyeing Russians right now because nobody wants a bunch of warmongers moving into their country. I'm not saying all Russians are like that, but nobody knows if a person is or not. So they're making quick judgement
I'm not sure how it is in Mexico/south America but I know in Canada we have a cultural melting pot, but people bring their past quarrels with them into the country. So you have a bunch of people living in Canada that will occasionally fight each other because of what Is happening in their original countries. Nobody wants to deal with that
Because in the video she declares "Russians are a nationalist people" and simultaneously not once clarifies that she disagrees with the government. When you say you love your country it is assumed you mean its government too unless you say otherwise.
They are raised from birth to hate the West and believe their tyrannical government's lies. This compounds the need to expressly rebuke Putin etc for Russians looking for sympathy.
I've heard that some of the wealthy are fleeing so that they don't get affected by the war directly. I assume some are waiting for it to blow over and will return when it's done. Or some might just set up somewhere else.
Of course, it's impossible to tell without the whole picture (which we rarely have). I'm purely basing this off of what I have read and the videos I've seen. So I could be entirely wrong.
I feel like with these videos, it’s always the Russians that are puppets to their government. Never the ones that oppose the war.
Yes and no, it's not like e.g. NFKRZ doesn't complain about things like banking sanctions and the increased difficulty of getting visas.
I’m not saying all Russians are like that, but nobody knows if a person is or not. So they’re making quick judgement
With many, it's easy to tell, straight up Z people generally tell on themselves very quickly, Anti-Z folks are also easy to spot even if they're holding back (just because you're not in Russia right now doesn't mean that there's no consequences for your speech), it's the depoliticised bunch that's the issue. In more than one way. OTOH while those may have an absolute void of an opinion on the war in particular, they generally do have a sensible opinion on civilian casualties and stuff.
Or, differently put: It's all too easy to ignore all that, to avoid looking at the actual person, by making too quick a judgement.
North Korean escapees almost exclusively did so against the wishes of their government, and almost certainly have a dim view of them. This is likely reflected in the view other people have of them.
Russian citizens are almost all free to leave, and often still have a positive view of their home country.
I would argue that most people are almost completely oblivious to the world around them. This lady has been fed pro Russian propaganda her whole life so of course the real world is shocking. How could everything she was taught be wrong?
Instead of whining to the camera, they could just do a quick google search, with all the same questions, instead of blaming the whole world.
Instead, we got this "why are people so mean to russians, we are the best" overdramatic nonsense, because her daddy's money couldn't buy her something in the real world.
Patently false. There are many, many who earned their infamy. All those involved in the kidnapping of children, the rapists, those firing on civilians, and all the leadership encouraging all these reprehensible acts to name a few.
@YeetPics@LaFinlandia Disagree totally. He's the #1 cause, yes, but he is not the only one. He could not do this without help, and he's had plenty. He's enlisted people from Bulgaria, Turkey, and other countries who specialize in atrocities and torture. He's allowed violent criminals out of prisons to go to war. He has help. They need to pay for their crimes, too. #WarCrimes#PutinWarCriminal#RussiaUkraineWar#RussianInvasion
Is it equally as valid to hate Chinese people because of the atrocities that occurred under Xi?
Something tells me that hating an ethnic group because their government leadership feeds them half truths is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Then again half the political discussions I've seen on Lemmy end with calling to nuke entire hemispheres of the planet, maybe this level of nuance doesn't fit here lmao.
That's like saying only Hitler was bad in Nazi Germany. And before the whole "NoT EvErY RuSsIaN" argument comes up: silence is compliance!
The Russians who are truly against what their country is doing already left in 2022, before the mobilization. Everyone else who is not actively fighting their regime is complicit.
You can't expect every single person that didn't left Russia to want ukrainians to be murdered and tortured. People there are poor, their entire life is there, their country makes everything to prevent them from escaping and other countries are wary in their regard. You can't make it that simple
being physically or economically unable to leave a country does not equal supporting putins russia, and how do all the minorities in russia that want their own independence tie into this? should they also leave what they see as a different country because on paper its part of russia? should all the remaining ukrainians leave ukraine were it to be fully occupied and used as a base to attack another country? you act as if russia isnt a truly large country that can be generalized to such extreme extents while theres enormous differences and disagreements within european russia alone
putins russia is a genocidal regime and no1 disagrees with that, but problems of raging alcholism and learned hopelessness among the regular people aside it is not as simple a matter as you boil it down to. everyone have their own fights and many people simply do not have the courage or ability to essentially fight a country but that does not make them worse than others
