Video gamers worldwide may be risking irreversible hearing loss and/or tinnitus ( medicalxpress.com )

Video gamers worldwide may be risking irreversible hearing loss and/or tinnitus—persistent ringing/buzzing in the ears—finds a systematic review of the available evidence, published in the open access journal BMJ Public Health.

What evidence there is suggests that the sound levels reported in studies of more than 50,000 people often near, or exceed, permissible safe limits, conclude the researchers.

And given the popularity of these games, greater public health efforts are needed to raise awareness of the potential risks, they urge.

While headphones, earbuds, and music venues have been recognized as sources of potentially unsafe sound levels, relatively little attention has been paid to the effects of video games, including e-sports, on hearing loss, say the researchers.

darthelmet ,

Every time I open a new game, the volume is set to the absolute max, which is orders of magnitude louder than any other sound on my computer. When I go to change the sound settings, I usually have to put the slider comically low before it gets to an acceptable volume range. At that point fine tuning it becomes kind of difficult.

Seriously, why can’t most games get volume right?

Zorque ,

Because it's not what people want. They want loud, because louder is considered better in social consciousness. That has been the trend for decades.

ApathyTree ,

Best game ever for sounds (in this context), imho, is dysmantle. People have described the sound track as “hikers listening to birds”. Music only happens in specific places, it’s mostly very relaxing/peaceful, and other than that it’s just listening to occasional zombies/turrets, environmental sounds, audio recordings, and breaking stuff.

I always turn the music and sfx way down (voice stays pretty high, sfx about 20% lower, and music very low) so I legit didn’t notice the lack of music for 22 hours of actual play time (out of the about 100 I put into it). But I didn’t change the sound settings at all for it, it was perfect.

TomSelleck ,

Fuckin great game.

verysoft , (edited )

Just laziness or ignorance, I made a game and set the volume to 30% by default (it was a bit quiet for my setup), there were no loud splash screens, just some music on the menu - why that is so difficult for developers to do, I don't understand.

It's also an extra crime when they force an unskippable cutscene on you or start a tutorial before you can even access the options screen. The very first screen you should get, should be the fucking options.

BiggestBulb ,
@BiggestBulb@kbin.run avatar

GeminiTay streamed Stardew Valley and this was one of her main complaints. The menu never lets you adjust the sound and the game starts with an unskippable scene.

verysoft ,

Yup its stupid af. I can adjust my game volume on the fly with the setup I have, so it's always nice to turn that shit down or mute it when I start up a game, but the fact I have to is insane.

You could prep volume mixer too, and tab out when the game launches to turn it down. Or developers could just not put loud splash/logo screens at max volume.

darthelmet ,

Agreed. The funny thing is some games go the other way around but still kind of get it wrong: Games where the options are a part of a launcher, so you don't actually get to experience your changes as you make them. I guess that's still better than just throwing you into a loud cutscene on startup though.

But seriously. When the game loads, I want the sound to be set to as low as possible, then just give me a slider that plays a sample sound that I can increase until it's right.

cyberpunk007 ,

Weird, I don't have this problem. Probably some bullshit manufacturers "gaming mode elite" software package setting.

Some games I play I do find I have to crank dialog up and effects/music down.

AlexisFR ,
@AlexisFR@jlai.lu avatar

Most games get it right, didbyou try lowering the global system volume down? Mines only at 20%.

darthelmet ,

Yeah. I usually have my system volume sub 20%. Things like videos, system sounds, voice calls, etc all sound reasonable at that volume. It’s just a lot of games that end up way too loud relatively to that.

Zangoose ,

My system volume is consistently at 8-20% on windows (~30-40% on Linux because it's a bit quieter usually) but every time I open a game I can't hear myself think. I always have to turn the volume way lower (~30-50% game volume?) to be a volume I'm comfortable playing at.

Some_Dumb_Goat ,

On my last pair of headphones I had to set windows to like 2% until I eventually downloaded equalizer apo and set it to make everything like -20db

snugglesthefalse ,

Yeah I hate this, even with windows at like 25% most games are still defaulting to too loud

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

What a dumbass click bait headline.

Has less to do with video games, and more to do with how loudly people are listening to them.

Zoot , (edited )
@Zoot@reddthat.com avatar

Why is this receiving such hate? I'm one of those affected, and it would make sense that video games were a huge reason why I have such bad ringing in my ears. It should absolutely be taught that playing video games runs the same risks as going to a concert, ear buds, headphones.

I'm confident we have all went to play a game, and not realized that our headset volume had been set to max. Definitely a personal feeling, but I wish someone had said maybe pay better attention before playing video games.

Edit: My point is, I'm one of those dumb people who would not have realized that gaming was on the same level as going to a concert. I could've used a nice little reality snap that this articles title gives. I only want to provide a second opinion, and hopefully entice someone else to read the article and give it a chance. We all know many people check comments before reading an article.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Because the issue isn't the video games fault. Any gamer in danger of damaging their hearing from playing games, is likely in danger of the same damage from listening to music or talking on the phone at high volume, also.

Reasonable people can already figure out that listening to anything too loud is bad for their hearing. This article is a nothing burger, and the title uses fear-mongering/hate bait to get you to read it.

Zoot ,
@Zoot@reddthat.com avatar

I am glad it is so obvious to you, however I am still thankful that articles like these get a chance to reach those who are unaware.

Because its not a fear monger, it is simply true for anyone unaware.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

I can't even begin to imagine how a person that is capable of reading and comprehending the article as well as hearing sounds would be unaware that LOUD SOUNDS HURT EARS.

Zoot ,
@Zoot@reddthat.com avatar

Maybe read the actual article then. I say this in a dickish tone, because it is not "simply loud noises" and it makes everyone else sound like an idiot in comparison to you.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

I have read the article. It doesn't suggest that the games themselves are using sounds too loud, only that many gamers listen to them at higher than safe volumes.

Zoot , (edited )
@Zoot@reddthat.com avatar

Yes, exactly because it is not obvious that this will cause damage to their ears. I'm sorry, im hungry, but what are you trying to argue if you just agreed with me? It is not a hate/fear mongering article if its point is to bring attention to those unaware.

I'm not sure if the original was edited, or if im absolutely bonkers but I swore you used the words hate/fearmongering and not dumbass.

CoggyMcFee ,

I think what they are trying to say is, how can it be that a person knows about and understands that loud sounds in every other context can damage your hearing, and yet never realized that loud sounds in video games are bad in the same way as everything else

Zoot ,
@Zoot@reddthat.com avatar

I would say that the article points out is isn't so obvious, and therefore should be brought to more peoples attention. I guess I'm reading into it too much. And also too dumb to realize growing up that yeah, gaming was just as bad as going to aconcert.

quams69 ,

I was in middle school when earbuds came out in the early 2000s and I remember the exact same idiot bait news headlines about ipods, I'm sure there's a 70's equivalent for headphones. It seems like journalists think the concept of volume is totally alien to humanity, regardless of time period.

BilboBargains ,

Noise cancelling headphones give me tinnitus but it's totally worth it to live without noise.

tb_ ,
@tb_@lemmy.world avatar

You'd take no crowd noises over a constant ringing no matter how silent everything else gets?

Please take me tinnitus

BilboBargains ,

I don't hear any ringing when I wear the headphones, it's only quiet times that it's noticeable. My motivation is largely due to ADHD, I'm more sensitive to noise than average and it's a major source of distraction for me. Open offices in particular are horrible for productivity. Driving is also way less fatiguing without road noise.

tb_ ,
@tb_@lemmy.world avatar

Then our experiences in life have been different

BilboBargains ,

The feeling of being removed from a noisy environment is quite blissful. Like slaking a thirst, it's immediately satisfying.

FunkyMonk ,

CounterStrike and all it's variations was always nuts with this to me, 'I have the voltume up to hear the footsteps bro' -KACHOW- "BUT THE HOUSE IS SHAKING" 'yeah this noob has an AWP, so of course I also have an mmhph' -THE AUDIENCE IS NOW DEEEF-

yamanii ,
@yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

One of the reasons I stopped playing, does 2 have a loudness range option? Once I discovered that option on my tv I never got jumpscared by an explosion ever again just because I had the volume up to listen to a conversation.

TonyTonyChopper ,
@TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz avatar

Windows has a compression mode called Loudness Equalization built in

Shurimal ,

As it should be

The first HL had surprisingly good sound with great dunamic range. HL2 felt wimpy, guns never had the same oomph to them.

victorz ,

Turn your volume down, bros.

I SAID TURN THE VOLUME DOWN.

remotelove ,

I would if you would stop making that non-stop ringing sound.

(I didn't realize I had tinnitus until I learned that not everyone hears a high pitch whine 24/7. My brain will tune it out naturally unless it's really quiet or someone mentions it. Like, now.)

noobdoomguy8658 ,

I've had a minor tinnitus since I was a kid, which I tend to be able to ignore most of the time because I'm preoccupied with other stuff, but the talks about tinnitus in the Escape From Tarkov community reminded me of the phenomenon, and I've been aware of my own tinnitus ever since.

Same as you now - won't hear it unless I remember about it and can't turn my mind to something else.

AlexisFR ,
@AlexisFR@jlai.lu avatar

If you don't notice it every time it's not tininitus just the normal background noise of the ears functioning.

Pretzilla ,

That's a fun way of thinking about it but nope. It's Tinnitus.

Zangoose ,

Maybe a more mild case but nope, definitely still tinnitus.

I have sensitive hearing towards higher frequency sounds (10khz+) and I've always listened at pretty low volumes (like 10-20% on windows for most headphones, even less on my easier-to-drive earbuds). Unfortunately for me I still ended up getting tinnitus but it's only noticeable when I actively think about it or when I'm trying to sleep.

Seriously though, tinnitus is awful, it makes sleeping so much harder.

AlexisFR ,
@AlexisFR@jlai.lu avatar

I see, thanks for the information!

remotelove ,

Well, its a pitch that never really stops and does overlap with some frequencies enough to be annoying.

It's not that I stop hearing it. It's just that I have had this for so long my brain comprehends it as "normal" and it doesn't hold my attention. Part of the psychology(?) is that I grew up around technology. Hearing PC fans or capacitor whine most of the time was normal for me as long as he pitch is steady. The pitch I hear is almost exactly like an old CRT, actually.

victorz ,

How did you get tinnitus, if you want to share?

remotelove ,

I think I have always had it to some degree? I began to realize something was off when I was in the Navy and they discovered I was missing some of my high range hearing in weird spots. My work on a flight deck didn't help either, I am sure. If you haven't stood close to a turbofan engines at full power, it's an interesting experience. And loud.

I have always liked extremely loud music and hard hitting bass. That likely contributed as well.

Dvixen ,
@Dvixen@lemmy.world avatar

I'm jealous! Mine only is tuned out if I listen to something loud, and I don't enjoy the headaches more than the tinnitus.

Feathercrown ,

Volume sliders never sound linear to me. I also keep them fairly low. This means that each individual step is surprisingly large in volume difference. I don't get people who go to max volume-- doesn't it hurt your ears? My laptop stays on 10-20% and some applications are turned down from that even further (TF2 is comically low).

Inductor ,

Are you using Bluetooth headphones?

If so, you might want to look into turning off bluetooth absolute volume. It's supposed to keep volume syncronised between your bluetooth device and your phone/laptop/etc, but some headphones don't seem to support it, wich can end up with them setting their internal volume to max.

Feathercrown ,

No, they're wired, although weirdly they can desync (per-ear!) after a restart until you change the volume again. Thanks for the tip though :)

Actually while I'm here, do you know how to turn off headphone media controls? My headphones don't have it but when I move my aux cord around windows thinks they're sending commands and likes to pause my videos >:(

Shurimal ,

Volume sliders never sound linear to me

Ironically that is because (with very few exceptions) every application from OS-s to streaming service webapps to games to mediaplayers uses linear volume slider. Human hearing is logarithmic.

The way typical volume slider works is multiplying the audio sample values with a coefficient that is ≤1. Ie, if you set volume to 50% the input is multiplied by 0.5 and as a result the signal voltage level on the analog output to your headphone or loudspeaker drivers is halved. The kicker—halving the voltage is just 6 dB less volume. This is why if you have sensitive headphones (or big, powerful speakers) you find that you have to keep the volume slider in your OS at 10% or even lower to not blast your ears off. And why the upper half of volume sliders is completely useless.

I have an unconventional speaker setup that makes classical analog volume control completely impractical. Since said setup has the maximum sound pressure level output of around 110 dB at full scale digital input, I have to keep the OS volume slider at 30% and in-app volume sliders at around 20%, resulting the total multiplier of 0.06 (or about -26dB full scale) to have comfortable volume levels. Only exception is Elite: Dangerous; with sound set to full dynamic range I can keep the main volume slider at maximum and enjoy glorious dynamics. Youtube is also surprisingly reasonable, probably because they normalize to -14dB LUTS or something similar.

Feathercrown ,

I wonder if linux has a logarithmic sound driver... might tempt me to the dark side!

finthechat ,

I have Windows volume mixer open all the time. I have developed a habit of pulling the volume down to 10-15% on every new window/app that I open because I hate sudden unstoppable loudness.

AlexisFR ,
@AlexisFR@jlai.lu avatar

Imagine if you could do it for the entire system!

finthechat ,

Lol. I still want my loudness ceiling to be loud, which is why I leave my speakers/headphones/system volume turned up. However, I like it when it's on my terms, so I manually turn down specific programs.

MaxVoltage ,
@MaxVoltage@lemmy.world avatar

Mate i just mute and make the sounds in my head

Jayb151 ,

Check an app called ear trumpet. It gives you way finer control over the volume of everything

BloodSlut ,

computer sounds are way too loud

i have my pc volume set to 50% and still consistently need to turn the master volume for every new game i buy down to 50%, or at least 75%, just so it stops causing physical pain in my ears

verysoft ,

Yeah there's a lot of variables for audio depending on peoples setups, but having the volume default to 100% is not the correct thing for applications to do, ever.

TrickDacy ,

What is the correct thing to do?

verysoft ,

Defaulting to 50% volume would be a good start, might be too quiet for some, might still be too loud for others. But at least it's not guaranteed to blow most peoples ears out.

TrickDacy , (edited )

What I don't understand in this thread is most people seem don't seem to be mentioning that you shouldn't have your master volume turned all the way up, especially if you have issues with loud volumes. It would be odd to me for a program to default to 50% for its volume. Since no others do, it would sound very quiet compared to all else and then I'd have to adjust it to undo that weird difference. Do people really not turn their master volumes down? I don't get why not, I do literally constantly.

PhantomPhanatic ,
@PhantomPhanatic@lemmy.world avatar

Same. It was a shock to me reading all the replies of people not just turning down the master volume. Usually there is a button on you keyboard specifically for that!

TrickDacy ,

Yeah exactly! I love that modern OSes and apps have individual volume sliders in case I need them, but in reality the way it plays out is the more volumes I adjust, the more confusing it is. I turn my PC speakers or headphones up to a level that basically caps the volume so it never blasts me too badly, then I just adjust my master volume on my keyboard and/or media PC remote. It tends to work well. Very rarely is something loud enough in this context to be alarming. Every now and then, I have to turn down a volume slider within a game/app, usually the music slider. If apps set their default volumes to 50% that would be annoying for me. Although I will say that the idea someone in the thread had -- to display a volume slider with a test sound on first launch of a game -- is a good idea.

verysoft ,

If I turn my Windows volume or my amp down any more then other applications become too quiet while they are at 100% volume.
The point is 100% shouldn't be a target aimed for. If my system is at 50% master volume, 100% on applications should still be too loud, you need headroom both up and down for different scenarios. If I play with friends and need speaker audio, then I need the volume louder for them.

I can adjust my PC volume on the fly with a knob, but adjusting the whole volume everytime throws everything out of whack, now my YouTube will be too quiet, other games I start up will need their volumes adjusting again etc.

So realistically its better if you keep your volume at a set level and then adjust the apps to get it perfect, the problem is apps defaulting to max volume for that moment of ear rape.

TrickDacy ,

adjusting the whole volume everytime throws everything out of whack

Interesting POV -- that statement would be exactly my experience if you replaced "whole volume" with "app-specific volume"

If for no other reason than "I can instantly adjust my master volume with my keyboard but the app specific volume is going to take several clicks to adjust"

verysoft ,

I want to adjust my app volume and be done with it, I dont want to adjust my master volume everytime. Besides if I turn down my master volume, now my music is quieter, I have to adjust that, people I am talking to are quieter and I have to adjust that.

In my setup I have a volume knob for each of these on a macropad, but I just turn down the desktop audio knob when starting a new game up, then reset the volume back after I adjust the in-game setting. So I personally have worked around it, but 99.9% of people wont have this so they have to use the OS volume control, which makes this a bigger annoyance.

If apps just didnt start at 100% it wouldnt be an issue, too quiet for some or too loud for some is better than max volume for everyone, which is guaranteed to ear rape some people.

TrickDacy ,

This all comes down to a matter of personal preference, but I think defaults being to not decrease our volumes is the least surprising standard though.

I do not see a world in which every app agrees on a default volume to set anyhow. Which is really the only way that could not be super annoying. And then even if they did, it would take several years for all apps to get on the same page.

Shurimal ,

Implementing proper logarithmic volume controls and defaulting them to -20 dB(FS) would be great. But the math involved is slightly more complicated* than the simplistic "multiply everything with a coefficient between 0 and 1" so devs won't bother (if they even know about logarithmic volume controls at all).

*I did logarithmic volume slider in Jscript for foobar2000 using a Jscript GUI plugin and it was not too difficult, but not straightforward either. Getting the button states and scaling to work correctly was more difficult and I never solved some annoying bugs. That was the first and the only "programming" I've ever done in my life.

TrickDacy ,

Hmm, shouldn't that be a driver level task?

Shurimal ,

No, it isn't. OS and app volume controls are not implemented on driver level, but in each application individually, or you wouldn't be able to change OS volume and in-app volume independent of each other. It's simple math, multiplying audio sample values with a coefficient, best done in 32 bit floating point.

The question is not whether to do the math at driver level or in the userspace. The question is: if the user sets their volume slider to the middle, what value that coefficient should be? Most apps use simple linear correlation (middle point halves values which is 6 dB of attenuation or -6 dB(FS)) which is not how human hearing works. Log volume control would have the middle point at, eg, -40 dB(FS) and zero point at -80 dB(FS), giving psychoacoustically useful range in both halves of the bar. This is how analog volume controls on amplifiers work (not exactly so, but pretty close).

Driver level volume control can be done, but then you'd need to open your sound card control app and set it there. It would be an addition to OS and app volume controls. It would not be tied to OS or in-app volume controls or affected by standard multimedia keys on your keyboard. And if you decide to do OS volume control at driver level, in-app volume controls would still need to exist and be at the mercy of the app devs competency at implementing it.

TrickDacy ,

Yeah, that all makes sense.

yamanii ,
@yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

I think most people's setup is windows at 100% and control the volume directly on the headset.

juicebox ,
@juicebox@kbin.social avatar

It would be nice if there was a pre-game audio slider like some games have brightness sliders.

Linssiili ,

Like volume mixer in windows?

CaptainSpaceman ,

Airpod type devices should be looked at as well, lots of people are gonna have fucked ears for a long time.

QuaternionsRock ,

You mean earbuds?

r00ty ,
@r00ty@kbin.life avatar

I've had tinnitus since my earliest memories. Will I get tinnitus on my tinnitus? Tinnitus squared?

webadict ,

It might alloy into bronzitus if you're not careful.

Dvixen ,
@Dvixen@lemmy.world avatar

Multi tonal tinnitus is a real thing.

Source: My right ear has two tones, and the left ear has different from the right two.

r00ty ,
@r00ty@kbin.life avatar

I have a general tone (or set of tones I guess) which is around equal in both ears usually. But they will sometimes just change for a while, which is extremely jarring since generally I do get used to the constant sound that suddenly being consciously aware of it generally distracts from whatever else is going on. Sometimes that change only happens in one ear, or at least starts in one ear.

Since I've had this forever, I actually thought it was normal. Until I guess one day my teacher at school ran out of material, or had a hangover and just wanted us quiet. So, asked us all to be quiet and start to talk about the quietest things people could hear. Others heard a few things I could hear. Sounds in the school building. Then people were talking about hearing traffic on the street nearby and other things I just couldn't hear at all. At that point I realised, just me hearing this sound then.

I'm probably quite lucky in that the noise floor for me isn't terrible. Only at night when trying to sleep does it become a problem.

HerrBeter ,

I played video games for 22 years: no hearing loss

Practiced bagpipes indoor, big room, a few times: like 30dB hearing loss.

Idk

TonyTonyChopper ,
@TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz avatar

bagpipes are the loudest thing I've ever experienced, those things are a silent killer

EffortlessEffluvium ,

Now think of the damage you could’ve caused the rest of us!

We’re saved!

CultHero ,

No worries for me, I've had tinnitus for over 40 years, pretty sure it's neurological for me, not hearing related.

popekingjoe ,
@popekingjoe@lemmy.world avatar

Shit man I've been suffering from hearing loss for like 20 years (partially due to infections and the rest is listening to music with headphones at high volumes), and tinnitus for at least 12.

I'm ahead of the curve. 😎

LoremIpsumGenerator ,

Huh, What?!

-Artillery men, Rock/Metal bands

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