darjr ,
@darjr@chirp.enworld.org avatar

Wizards of the Coast has a new D&D survey as part of the 50th anniversary celebration.

As we celebrate the 50th anniversary of D&D we want to know what you think about the game with a quick survey!

✍️ Click the following link to access the survey! (estimated time: 2-5 minutes): http://spr.ly/6181k8FA9

Alphastream ,
@Alphastream@dice.camp avatar

@darjr I am still pondering that survey. Super interesting!

slyflourish ,
@slyflourish@chirp.enworld.org avatar

@Alphastream @darjr

“Do you like me?”

[ ] yes
[ ] no

jameswords ,
@jameswords@mastodon.social avatar
slyflourish ,
@slyflourish@chirp.enworld.org avatar

@jameswords i like you back!

dragoncrown ,
@dragoncrown@dice.camp avatar

@slyflourish @Alphastream @darjr That's pretty much what this survey is, yes.

Makes me very curious as to why they are caring about this now.

wyrmworksdale ,
@wyrmworksdale@dice.camp avatar

@dragoncrown @slyflourish @Alphastream @darjr If I were a stockholder, I'd be interested in the results, but I also note that it's not asking whether we like Hasbro.
Seems like they're trying diagnose whether they've developed an infection from all the times they shot themselves in the foot last year.
And that animation can produce motion sickness for some people.
But yeah, I received a similar survey when I was in 8th grade.

slyflourish ,
@slyflourish@chirp.enworld.org avatar

@wyrmworksdale @dragoncrown @Alphastream @darjr it’s sad we’ll never know the results. Maybe I’ll try to recreate it on a YouTube poll but I know my results won’t be representative.

dragoncrown ,
@dragoncrown@dice.camp avatar

@slyflourish @wyrmworksdale @Alphastream @darjr Still would be an interesting experiment, I think.

Gives another vector to talk about on Sunday for the Lazy GM talk. 😉

slyflourish ,
@slyflourish@chirp.enworld.org avatar

@dragoncrown @wyrmworksdale @Alphastream @darjr I changed my mind. Who cares. The answers don’t help us run awesome games for our friends.

dragoncrown ,
@dragoncrown@dice.camp avatar

@slyflourish @wyrmworksdale @Alphastream @darjr
I find it hard to argue with that logic, but I still think it would be an interesting discussion. 😉

slyflourish ,
@slyflourish@chirp.enworld.org avatar

@dragoncrown @wyrmworksdale @Alphastream @darjr The survey matters to WOTC / Hasbro. It doesn’t matter to you and me. That’s what I’m going to talk about next Sunday.

dragoncrown ,
@dragoncrown@dice.camp avatar

@slyflourish @wyrmworksdale @Alphastream @darjr
Looking forward to it! 👍

While I'm still curious from an academic perspective, "they and their shenanigans have no true value or consequence to our games" is an important perspective to bring into the discussion.

Mostly because when it comes down to it, it's the correct take.

Alphastream ,
@Alphastream@dice.camp avatar

@slyflourish @dragoncrown @wyrmworksdale @darjr It does matter what online discourse is like to those heavily online. But I don't think it matters so much compared to all the ways D&D is played, discussed, etc. Still probably good for WotC to get a feel for the online tenor, assuming they can do anything after seeing the results.

slyflourish ,
@slyflourish@chirp.enworld.org avatar

@Alphastream @dragoncrown @wyrmworksdale @darjr Yep. Good for Hasbro. Doesn't matter to us.

Alphastream ,
@Alphastream@dice.camp avatar

@slyflourish @dragoncrown @wyrmworksdale @darjr Like, more interesting to me is, imagine a set of survey results. How would you then turn around and improve the situation? It goes back to what @DarkplaneDM so brilliantly said on @MasteringDnD . There's the real rub.

WhatDoIKnowJR ,
@WhatDoIKnowJR@dice.camp avatar

@wyrmworksdale @dragoncrown @slyflourish @Alphastream @darjr I was just thinking that they would probably have gotten more complete results if this included Hasbro. If, for example, someone were upset about the layoffs, and it affects their view on D&D, that doesn't live anywhere in this survey.

Alphastream ,
@Alphastream@dice.camp avatar

@WhatDoIKnowJR @wyrmworksdale @dragoncrown @slyflourish @darjr It’s all so limited, though. This survey won’t reach the nearly many hundreds of people I ran through a first game of D&D last weekend, or the regular players at my local gaming store.

WhatDoIKnowJR ,
@WhatDoIKnowJR@dice.camp avatar

@Alphastream @wyrmworksdale @dragoncrown @slyflourish @darjr maybe, but we don't know why they want the data. They could very easily be trying to take the temperature of what influencers and the very online are saying so they can circumvent trends that they can see. Not saying this survey was good for that either.

Alphastream ,
@Alphastream@dice.camp avatar

@WhatDoIKnowJR @wyrmworksdale @dragoncrown @slyflourish @darjr I’m a fan of surveys. It’s good to see what online folks think. Surveys just need qualifying and WotC has seemed to recently treat the online crowd like the only crowd. (As with playtesting, where the casual player gets ignored)

WhatDoIKnowJR ,
@WhatDoIKnowJR@dice.camp avatar

@Alphastream @wyrmworksdale @dragoncrown @slyflourish @darjr I don't disagree, but this survey felt less like "we need data for a long term plan," and more like "okay, how much damage control are we still doing?"

Alphastream ,
@Alphastream@dice.camp avatar

@WhatDoIKnowJR @wyrmworksdale @dragoncrown @slyflourish @darjr I am always wondering why they didn’t have any more summits. It was a good idea, and they dropped the ball.

slyflourish ,
@slyflourish@chirp.enworld.org avatar

@Alphastream @WhatDoIKnowJR @wyrmworksdale @dragoncrown @darjr it felt like a disaster to me. Total disconnect between their audience and their executives.

Nanenroe ,

"Do you like @slyflourish ?"

[ X] yes
[ ] no

LeviKornelsen ,
@LeviKornelsen@dice.camp avatar

@slyflourish @Alphastream @darjr - I half expected them to distinguish between Hasbro and Wizards as an aftereffect of the whole "split Wizards off Hasbro" thing.

I would be interested to know how big the "I like your game, and I don't recommend it because your company sucks." contingent (that I'm in) actually is.

Tim_Eagon ,
@Tim_Eagon@dice.camp avatar
croyle ,
@croyle@wandering.shop avatar

@Tim_Eagon @LeviKornelsen @slyflourish @Alphastream @darjr "I loved D&D since 1979, dislike Hasbro/WotC, have happily played Pathfinder instead now for the last 12+ years."... I don't expect to see those options in the survey.

cynical13 ,
@cynical13@vivaldi.net avatar

@croyle @Tim_Eagon @LeviKornelsen @slyflourish @Alphastream @darjr

I wasn't particularly kind in my response. They've burned quite a few bridges.

Alphastream ,
@Alphastream@dice.camp avatar

@cynical13 @croyle @Tim_Eagon @LeviKornelsen @slyflourish @darjr They have. At the same time, they do all kinds of great stuff too. They really took care of DMs at a recent convention. Their school program and library program have both been awesome. It’s always a mixed bag, going back to the TSR days.

slyflourish ,
@slyflourish@chirp.enworld.org avatar

@Alphastream @cynical13 @croyle @Tim_Eagon @LeviKornelsen @darjr don’t forget the SRD in four other languages and committing to putting the 2024 books on Foundry. But then there’s the firing 20% of the D&D staff because Transformers underperformed…

I chose neutral.

LeviKornelsen ,
@LeviKornelsen@dice.camp avatar

@slyflourish @Alphastream @cynical13 @croyle @Tim_Eagon @darjr - By my lights, almost (almost) every good thing they've done has been about PR, while the recent spate of badness (OGL revision, Pinkertons, etc) puts them into the class where even if they're treating people nice now, they absolutely can't be trusted...

...And their key program to help 3pp make new material demands total trust. They can cancel, you can't republish.

When someone who's been shady says "trust me", run.

cynical13 ,
@cynical13@vivaldi.net avatar
Tim_Eagon ,
@Tim_Eagon@dice.camp avatar

@cynical13 @LeviKornelsen @slyflourish @Alphastream @croyle @darjr I indicated negative feelings due to both their recent actions and recent output - I'm not a fan of the 2024 revisions at all.

E_T_Smith ,
@E_T_Smith@dice.camp avatar

@LeviKornelsen @slyflourish @Alphastream @cynical13 @croyle @Tim_Eagon @darjr

There really needs to be an option in this survey for "I don't hate you, but you have rendered yourself and your products irrelevant to my interests."

Alphastream ,
@Alphastream@dice.camp avatar

@LeviKornelsen @slyflourish @cynical13 @croyle @Tim_Eagon @darjr I don't see it that way, perhaps because I from time to time speak to the people actually doing those initiatives. I know their actual reasoning, and it's a human gamer-focused one. But it's totally valid if that's not how it comes across.

LeviKornelsen ,
@LeviKornelsen@dice.camp avatar

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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  • pteryx ,
    @pteryx@dice.camp avatar

    @LeviKornelsen @Alphastream @slyflourish @cynical13 @croyle @Tim_Eagon @darjr What the people in the trenches doing the actual work intend means nothing if the C-suite undermines them at every turn, fails to understand what the product is in the least, values control over having a support structure, breaks promises (or makes false ones to begin with), sends goons to attack their customers, and even fires the aforementioned people in the trenches.

    Alphastream ,
    @Alphastream@dice.camp avatar

    @LeviKornelsen @slyflourish @cynical13 @croyle @Tim_Eagon @darjr As an example, a lot of the school program work they do on the volunteer side started with Shelly's kid and his friends wanting to take the game from their home to their school and grow it. Past programs have been influenced by Ethan's school program, etc.

    JunkyardTornado ,
    @JunkyardTornado@universeodon.com avatar

    @slyflourish @Alphastream @cynical13 @croyle @Tim_Eagon @LeviKornelsen @darjr there's also this seemingly embrace of using AI. Seems contradictory to their stance of only a couple months ago but I guess we'll see.

    https://www.wargamer.com/hasbro-ceo-ai-predictions

    Alphastream ,
    @Alphastream@dice.camp avatar

    @JunkyardTornado @slyflourish @cynical13 @croyle @Tim_Eagon @LeviKornelsen @darjr

    It's hard to know. There was a recent article on Kickstarter's blockchain plans, saying it was basically a ploy to get $100M from an investor and turn that into stock purchases so they could make $ without selling the company. Horrid, even if they didn't actually want to pursue crypto. Companies are weird.

    LeviKornelsen ,
    @LeviKornelsen@dice.camp avatar

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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  • Tim_Eagon ,
    @Tim_Eagon@dice.camp avatar

    @LeviKornelsen @Alphastream @JunkyardTornado @slyflourish @cynical13 @croyle @darjr At this point, it feels like CEOs have to serve up some AI platitudes because it’s expected of them from the press and investors.

    cynical13 ,
    @cynical13@vivaldi.net avatar

    @Tim_Eagon @LeviKornelsen @Alphastream @JunkyardTornado @slyflourish @croyle @darjr

    Hasbro has also made it clear that they intend to maximize profits on players too, so finding a way to get cheaper art for the products that are the biggest moneymakers for them does seem on brand.

    croyle ,
    @croyle@wandering.shop avatar

    @cynical13 @Tim_Eagon @LeviKornelsen @Alphastream @JunkyardTornado @slyflourish @darjr Yep. And that's just one more reason I said I dislike WotC in that poll.

    JunkyardTornado ,
    @JunkyardTornado@universeodon.com avatar

    @croyle @cynical13 @Tim_Eagon @LeviKornelsen @Alphastream @slyflourish @darjr even with putting the SRD 5.0 in the CC, it feels like they did that just because of pressure. I never felt they did it out of goodness or because they support creators. So, there's no trust in them outside of, I trust they'll try to make the most profits... and that I trust they'll try to be deceptive.

    Buuuuut... I know the wonderful ttrpg community that exists would not exist, at least in some large part, without them. It's def not ALL bad. I enjoy many WOTC products over the years. And they have responded to feedback at times. However, anything they do or products they release, I approach with skepticism at first.

    Tim_Eagon ,
    @Tim_Eagon@dice.camp avatar

    @JunkyardTornado @croyle @cynical13 @LeviKornelsen @Alphastream @slyflourish @darjr I trust individuals in the company, but not the company itself - I feel that way about most corporations.

    JunkyardTornado ,
    @JunkyardTornado@universeodon.com avatar

    @Tim_Eagon @croyle @cynical13 @LeviKornelsen @Alphastream @slyflourish @darjr true. Some great game designers, etc, there.

    slyflourish ,
    @slyflourish@chirp.enworld.org avatar

    @JunkyardTornado @croyle @cynical13 @Tim_Eagon @LeviKornelsen @Alphastream @darjr If I had to guess, someone inside the company knew it would be a fantastic idea for the whole TTRPG industry to release the 5.1 SRD in the CC and managed to wrap it up in wet blankets and throw it out the window while everything was on fire. Bless whoever that was.

    LeviKornelsen ,
    @LeviKornelsen@dice.camp avatar

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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  • pteryx ,
    @pteryx@dice.camp avatar

    @LeviKornelsen @slyflourish @JunkyardTornado @croyle @cynical13 @Tim_Eagon @Alphastream @darjr As I remember things playing out, it can't have been that. They were originally going to only release as CC-BY the parts of the 5.1 SRD that probably couldn't have been defended in court. There would have been no species, no classes, no monsters (not even animals!), no planes, no public domain pantheons, no traps or hazards...

    1/2

    slyflourish ,
    @slyflourish@chirp.enworld.org avatar

    @Tim_Eagon @LeviKornelsen @Alphastream @JunkyardTornado @cynical13 @croyle @darjr I agree, and frankly, I don't really care, but it goes directly against what they said at the D&D Community Summit and on X when the whole "WOTC's trying to make an AI GM" thing went off the rails.

    D&D designers at WOTC have the best intentions to make awesome D&D books. But they still work for Hasbro.

    slyflourish ,
    @slyflourish@chirp.enworld.org avatar

    @Alphastream @JunkyardTornado @cynical13 @croyle @Tim_Eagon @LeviKornelsen @darjr Are you saying Chris Cocks is playing 4D AI chess to find that missing $1 billion eOne money they lost in the couch cushins??

    stewsharp ,
    @stewsharp@chirp.enworld.org avatar

    @slyflourish @Alphastream @JunkyardTornado @cynical13 @croyle @Tim_Eagon @LeviKornelsen @darjr It almost seems like every CEO feels pressured to announce some cockamamie AI plan to not be punished by investors. They are free to do that, but I’m free to avoid their platforms and products.

    Alphastream ,
    @Alphastream@dice.camp avatar

    @LeviKornelsen @slyflourish @darjr There doesn’t seem to be any interest in splitting off (and for a sale the buyer would need to be a rare gem).

    Alphastream ,
    @Alphastream@dice.camp avatar

    @LeviKornelsen @slyflourish @darjr I still suspect the picture is complicated. Speaking to around 1k convention attendees, 2 mentioned they disliked D&D or the company. I think online discourse is a strange/different thing.

    Da_Gut ,
    @Da_Gut@dice.camp avatar

    @slyflourish @Alphastream @darjr do I have to fold this into a little triangle and pass it first to a buddy of mine, who passes it to a buddy of yours, and then on to you? Hopefully without the teacher spotting us?

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