"Trump doesn't have an appeal": Experts say Trump may fire lawyer after being "burned very severely" ( www.salon.com )

Legal experts skewered Alina Habba's "comedy of bumbling errors" in Trump defamation trial

Former President Donald Trump's appeal of the $83.3 million verdict in the defamation case brought by E. Jean Carroll is unlikely to succeed, legal experts say.

"Let me ruin the suspense for everyone. Trump doesn't have an appeal," Nashville lawyer Brian Manookian argued Friday. "I know the talking heads on TV who have never tried a case or appealed a jury verdict have to mention it. Here's why it isn't going to fly."

A person must "preserve a reversible error at the trial level" in order to have a case with merit on appeal, Manookian explained, ultimately blaming Trump's lack thereof on his legal team in the case.

"This is why you hire competent counsel. You need someone who actually knows the rules of evidence and procedure," he said. "Alina Habba had no clue what was occurring throughout the trial. She not only failed to preserve any remote grounds for appeal, like a moron, she repeatedly and unintentionally waived them over and over."

Red_October ,

Obviously he'll fire his lawyer, he goes through them like most people go through tissues.

History tells us that he's also not going to pay her and will probably be a person of interest when she's charged with a felony.

gennygameshark ,

Well, I've never found Trump appealing...
🥁🥁🥁

JeeBaiChow ,

Lol. Let's see if she gets paid.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

I'd say what kind of professional wouldn't get payment upfront from Trump these days, but

ChrisLicht ,

Someone, in an aside to a comment on Reddit a few days ago, seemed to suggest she was prepaid $2.5MM. I haven’t looked up to confirm.

LarmyOfLone ,

Then I want to thank Alina Habba for helping to preserve a chance for democracy in the US.

mojofrododojo ,

she was pretending to be smart.

collapse_already ,

Looks like typical DJT operating procedures. Hire incompetence and then blame the system for their incompetence. I used to do high stakes litigation. We would have an attorney on our trial team whose only responsibility was preserving error. I wonder if DJT will sue her for malpractice. That would probably make her extra sad for servicing his tiny mushroom.

Ferrous ,

We gotta end small-dick hate, homedog.

Tyfud ,

It's not small dick hate. It's calling out the shallowest thing that would piss trump off. It's especially poetic as he makes exaggerated claims about his persons all the time, including what we know is a complete exaggeration on the size of his dick (thanks Stormy).

Any other person I'm in total agreement with you.

Just not this one. Not after he fucking mocked a disabled person on live TV and suffered zero consequences.

This is all we've got right now.

slingstone ,

Being one of the lesser-endowed, I'll allow it.

Ferrous ,

Body shaming isn't acceptable just because it's someone you don't like.

corsicanguppy ,

Body-shaming of people who don't overcompensate and claim the exact opposite of their particular issue, you mean?

Like, when a 100% blind guy wants to take up cataract surgery because of their acute eyesight, you're gonna say "dawg, it's maybe not your thing". And if they persist with full-page ads as to their keen eyesight, then we have DJT.

It's a yes from me.

FabledAepitaph ,

I get the same vibe. I don't care about DJTs hurt feelings for being called "small dick", but I do recognize that there are people out there who actually are "lesser endowed", and its gotta be frustrating to see it used as an insult all the time. Maybe having a "small dick" isn't the greatest, but its also totally acceptable and people shouldn't be made to feel negatively about something they really had no control over. My two cents lol

Socsa , (edited )

I don't hate small dicks. I hate people who act like massive assholes because they have small dicks.

Ferrous ,

"I don't hate (n-word), I just hate people who act like (n-word)."

Socsa ,

IDK buddy, I'm like a shorter person and don't really internalize any "Napoleon Complex" because being short doesn't make me an asshole like my tiny penis does.

DogWater ,

They hate you because when you make your analogy it's suddenly offensive, lol hypocrites

but it's an apples to apples comparison.

Both are vulgar language that references a part of the human body that can't be changed.

TheJims ,

We should be kinder to the people who want to kill us.

uid0gid0 ,

Would he have some kind of case for appeal due to incompetent counsel?

HopeOfTheGunblade ,
@HopeOfTheGunblade@kbin.social avatar

Not in a civil trial, from what I'm hearing, but IANAL.

TheFriar ,

Same. I’m analing right now.

collapse_already ,

No. In a criminal case, but not in a civil lawsuit.

thesprongler ,

It feels like Trump always hires incompetent lawyers so he and his media cronies can cry foul when it inevitably goes south. That's not how the legal system works. I type this while I await jury duty.

ivanafterall ,

It's because nobody competent will work for him. The few competent people who are soulless enough have already been fired, quit, left unpaid, etc... I wonder if there's a comprehensive list somewhere. It's a dozen-plus, at this point, I think?

crazyCat ,

This is gold Jerry, freaking gold.

Rapidcreek ,

A good lawyer would have reserved ground for an appeal. But she is not a good lawyer. Trump is going to write the check, but he will not see the money come back.

tburkhol ,

One argument goes that she was counting on her blatant incompetence to be grounds for appeal. Once/if Trump ever finds a competent lawyer willing to represent him.

Rapidcreek ,

Having a bad lawyer is not grounds for an appeal. You have to prove they committed an act. She was just stupid enough to stipulate to all the evidence. Stupid doesn't work for an appeal.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

But people here on Lemmy have told me repeatedly that she isn't stupid and that she was creatively doing Trump's bidding! As recently as yesterday!

Do you mean to tell me she is stupid?!

Murvel ,

Like she's a total bimbo though, it's so obvious...

Kbin_space_program ,

Hey, I've said she's an evil manipulative bitch, not a bimbo.

That doesn't make her a good lawyer though.

Murvel ,

She's fucking incompetent, not some evil mastermind...

Kbin_space_program ,

Absolutely not a mastermind. Definitely evil, definitely manipulative. Not particularly competent.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/30/trump-golf-club-worker-sexually-harassment-lawsuit-00129307

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You would think.

Shellbeach ,

She did have to pass the bar at some point I'd imagine. She can't be completely dumb. A reverse Elle Woods maybe

Bridger ,

Passed the bar by faking being smart, I guess.

Murvel ,

Yeah, by cheating for example...

Bridger ,

Given her blatant ignorance of basic lawering cheating on her bars seems likely.

frezik ,

Some of these Trump lawyers are so bad that I'm seriously questioning the Bar's ability to filter out terrible lawyers.

MrPibb ,
@MrPibb@lemmynsfw.com avatar

Well, to be fair, it’s quite possible for her to be both stupid AND doing Trump’s bidding. It’s not like he is firing on all cylinders, the guy brags about being able to pick out a whale from a from a lineup of fruits and vegetables.

jak ,

I don’t think she’s a good lawyer, but I also don’t think she’s stupid. I would call her shrewd. She’s exactly where she wants to be, if her end goal is more than 15 minutes of fame (which it seems to be, given that radio show). If trump sues her, she can just extend her time in the spotlight. If not, she can always sue him for nonpayment herself

homesweethomeMrL ,

"I do think part of the rough week he had was having chosen a counsel who doesn't seem to have any, not just chops, but judgment about how you try a case like this when it's already been established[,]and you may not quibble that your client has sexually assaulted the plaintiff and then lied about it."

Shitheads in Ohio be like, “Imma vote for him!” Because corporate journalism has failed catastrophically.

Dagwood222 , (edited )

Stop blaming the media.

When he said he liked soldiers who didn't get captured, the main stream media reported it. When the pussy grabber tape came out the media was all over it. They played the tapes of him talking about perving on the Miss Teen USA contestants.

I saw one of his defenders on The View. One of the panelists kept repeating 'grab the pussy' over and over. The woman who was supporting Trump asked her not to use that offensive language.

The media reported and the MAGoos decided it didn't matter.

grabyourmotherskeys ,

Exactly, we all know what terrible person he is because of this.

Dagwood222 ,

Trump and his people treat the media the same way surly tweens treat their parents. If the NY Times says that Trump is one of the richest people in the world his people will repeat that claim over and over. If the Times says that Donnie took money from Putin it's FAKE NEWS!

Tolookah ,

And if they said that he took money from Putin to become one of the richest in the world, that's just good business.

Dagwood222 ,

The actually hilarious thing is that Trump could have extorted billions out of Putin on Inauguration Day.

"Hey, Vlad, why don't you release all those pictures you have of me. That's right, send 'em all to the NY Times. I got the CIA on stand by to prove they are all fakes. Now, Vlad, if you send me $10 billion I promise not to go to Congress tomorrow and beg them to fast track letting Ukraine join NATO. You're alread yon it? I knew we could stay pals..."

grue ,

Stop absolving the media. They absolutely have some culpability here for treating whackjobs with the same credulity they treat scientists, treating existential threats against democracy as if they're a normal part of the political horse race, and otherwise perpetuating habitual and systemic balance fallacies on a massive scale. The "MAGoos" didn't just go off the deep end on their own; the media helped mislead them straight off it.

Dagwood222 ,

https://www.thewrap.com/ny-times-list-trump-lies-longer-than-war-and-peace/

EatATaco ,

The other poster actually gave examples. You posted something but vague references to a "balance fallacy" (I love how you cited that, but not any examples. lol) . .and have a way better upvote to downvote ration than the other poster.

This is the perfect example of this place using the upvote as the "I agree" button rather than actual, good arguments that add to the discussion. People want to shit on the media, and you gave them an a vague, effectively unchallengeable post to do so. Congrats.

Randomgal ,

Sounds like you're just mad you're wrong though.

EatATaco ,

What, exactly, an I wrong about here?

PilferJynx ,

I thought the American media has no obligation to the American people and it's reporting, however flawed, is protected under the first amendment.

grue ,

  1. I never said they didn't.

  2. I equally have a first amendment right to bitch about how irresponsible they're being.

PilferJynx ,

Sure, but you're trying to give them a responsibility they don't have or care to have. Your truth to power doesn't amount to much. And I agree, that's a huge problem.

Jaysyn ,
@Jaysyn@kbin.social avatar

Reminder that Trump could have used the more competent Christopher Kise for this.

I guess pretending to be smart didn't work out so well for Habba this time.

dhork ,

It's possible that Christopher Kise is competent enough to not want anything to do with this case.

Of course, it's also possible that he's just as much of a dumbass, too....

https://newrepublic.com/post/176656/trump-idiot-lawyer-kise-gag-order-fraud-trial

fine_sandy_bottom ,

Would I be a bigot if I were to observe that she probably wouldn't be trumps lawyer if she were an overweight balding middle aged male?

imPastaSyndrome ,

No because you're not judging anyone but trump

troybot ,

Are you referring to Rudy Giuliani? Because he was also incompetent.

billiam0202 ,

No no no, he said "middle aged". Ghouliani is clearly much older.

Masterblaster ,

trump thinks only in terms of television. he picked the pretty lawyer because, in his mind, everyone that looks good is better than other people. his narcissism is chronic.

homesweethomeMrL ,

Also his dementia.

Dagwood222 ,

Trump truly believes that he's going to be President again, none way or another. If he doesn't win the actual vote he thinks that millions of his supporters will flood the streets and enthrone him. All the trials are merely a sideshow to him.

Reminds me of an old story. Son is condemned to be shot for cowardice. His father, the general, sends him a message to act bravely, because he will be pardoned at the last minute. The son faces his last hours coolly, because he has nothing to fear. When they finally slip the blindfold on he realizes that Daddy couldn't save him, but Daddy wanted him to die bravely. The only difference is Trump is the 'victim' who lies to himself.

GladiusB ,
@GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

Hahaha what a fantasy. That would never happen. Why it is so funny, I believe you that he believes that.

WeeSheep ,

Can you please explain Rudy Giuliani by the same logic

ccunning ,

Show me one person who wouldn’t fawn over his dribbling hairline and nicotine stained fingers…

surewhynotlem ,

Only applies to women. His judgement for men is how far into his ass they're willing to go to kiss it.

frezik ,

They were friends for years before Trump was President. At one point, I would have said Giuliani may be Trump's only real friend--yes, even unhinged narcissists can have friends. Giuliani screwed up a lot during his Administration, and until Jan 6, Trump mostly let it go. He didn't do that for any other lawyer or flunky. However, even Giuliani wasn't safe when Jan 6 failed.

NABDad ,

He picked the pretty lawyer from the increasingly tiny pool of incompetent lawyers who are still willing to risk whatever career they ever hoped to have in exchange for being hung out to dry and screwed out of any money they expected to receive.

JimmyBigSausage ,

Didn’t she have a gaming laptop computer at the beginning of the trial in court? Game on!

gravitas_deficiency ,

Lmao you’re right she had a RoG laptop at the start of it

ericisshort ,

And it wasn’t even hers. The gaming laptop belonged to the court and was used for the live transcript feed.

aew360 ,

I have a hard time believing that to be honest

newthrowaway20 ,

I don't, wasting taxpayer money is something we do a lot at all levels of government.

stoly ,

That only happens in the wet dreams that conservatives have. You then wake up, satisfied that your view of reality is the only one.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Nah, that's exactly the kind of thing that happens when they send an intern out to buy equipment.

DarkGamer ,

I'm surprised how noteworthy people find this

JimmyBigSausage ,

Well it was not a good look.

toastus ,

Why though?

I am sure a proper gaming laptop can do anything a lawyer needs it to do.

Overspecced and overpriced for its job?
Probably, but whatever? Noone would have batted an eye if she turned up with an equally expensive Apple product.

Edit: And I am not arguing that she is an idiot or that I have tremendous Schadenfreude towards both her and Trump.
I just don't get why a gaming laptop is a bad thing to use.

grue ,

I just don’t get why a gaming laptop is a bad thing to use.

RGB lights and tacticool styling are distracting and unprofessional in court, maybe.

stoly ,

There's nothing wrong with the laptop itself. But it doesn't really belong in that context.

frezik ,

Male lawyers still wear carefully tailored business suits even when the rest of the business world has gone more casual. Female lawyers likewise tend to wear a higher level of business attire than typical in other office environments.

Language is also more formal; I had jury duty once, and the defense lawyer mentioned his client by first name. The judge reminded him that they address people formally by last name in court. (That guy came off like a relatively new lawyer working his way up in the public defender system; Trump would probably be better off hiring him than anybody he's actually getting, but that guy is also probably smart enough not to.)

How lawyers present themselves in court and in front of clients is very important. A gaming laptop with unicorn puke RGB is not a good look.

TriPolarBearz ,

I dunno.. RGB and underglow lights cycling between orange and blue looks pretty amazing.

clay_pidgin ,

I'm sure she just asked IT for the most powerful laptop she could get, and IT just shrugged and got out the corporate card. Or she games in her time off. Who knows, who cares.

themeatbridge ,

Because it's funny either way.

Is she a legitimate attorney who is also a gamer and uses the same laptop for work so she can squeeze in some Rocket League during court recesses?

Or is she technologically incompetent, and bought an expensive laptop she didn't realize was the wrong tool for the job? She's proven she's incompetent as a lawyer, being unsavvy with tech is just icing on that cake.

Or maybe it's her nephew's gaming rig, and she's borrowing it for her big court case.

Num10ck ,

its like Joe Pesci's suit in my cousin vinny. like she had some misadventures in a net cafe.

themeatbridge ,

I can imagine a panicked conversation at the nearest Walmart, "I was the only one without a laptop, and I need one, and it just needs to be able to handle whatever."

coffeebiscuit ,

A gaming laptop is very capable for her work. It just doesn’t look professional for said work.

“360-noscopes” trough the courtroom.

ShaggySnacks ,

I truly hope the announcer for Unreal Tournament would narrate that.

"POOR LEGAL ARGUMENT", "DENIED", "CONTEMPT OF COURT". I get shivers thinking of that.

ericisshort ,

Is it still funny if it turns out to be the court’s laptop used for the live transcription feed? Because that’s what she claimed on Xitter.

themeatbridge ,

Yeah, it's still a little funny, but at the expense of the court.

HopeOfTheGunblade ,
@HopeOfTheGunblade@kbin.social avatar

Given the rest of the horseshit she's slung since she got hired away from working parking ticket cases, I'm inclined not to believe this.

But yes, that would also be quite funny.

stoly ,

It just doesn't look professional. You don't need a big GPU and RGB lights to open a web browser and PDF files.

Varyk ,

Can he call for an appeal or mistrial based on inadequate legal protection or ineffective assistance of council?

Is that a thing?

aniki ,

I think it can be argued by a competent appeals attorney but the likes of them working with Trump at this end-game are 0.

evolatic ,

Not in a civil trial. That's only for criminal trials.

SkybreakerEngineer ,

Won't stop him from trying. Delay, delay, delay

gregorum ,
@gregorum@lemm.ee avatar

Having to put up 120% of the judgment amount in order to file an appeal might stop him, however. He probably doesn’t have that much cash lying around, and his properties may be tied up in other legal matters, so he might not be able to use them as collateral.

formergijoe ,

He'll just use campaign funds and hope he becomes president so he can pardon himself for illegally using campaign funds

Overzeetop ,
@Overzeetop@sopuli.xyz avatar

Saudis might sport a bond for him. They’re pretty tight.

Varyk ,

Cool, thanks

aniki ,

You can appeal civil cases. Happens all the time. You constantly hear "jury awarded 1 billion dollars but was reduced to 50 dollars on appeals."

https://www.law.com/dailyreportonline/2023/12/07/what-if-the-jury-awarded-1b-ga-appellate-court-weighs-maximum-for-nominal-damages/?slreturn=20240030084445

Is there an upper limit for a jury award of nominal damages? The Georgia Court of Appeals is set to weigh in after Walmart, represented by attorneys from Florida-based firm GrayRobinson, appealed a $1 million personal injury verdict on Tuesday, arguing the jury awarded nothing for pain, suffering or medical losses and $1 million is not a “trivial amount”—even if the defendant is Walmart.

davitz ,

They didn't say you couldn't appeal a civil case. They said that ineffective counsel can't be the basis of that appeal.

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