MonkderZweite ,

Conservatives Christofachists

regdog ,

Convservatives never not plan to ban abortion. The time of year does not matter.

beefbot ,

Exactly! 😂 “which January, the year where they first found out about them?”

Veneroso ,

Never interrupt your enemy while they're making a mistake. Carry on!

FlavoredButtHair ,
@FlavoredButtHair@lemmy.world avatar

So we'll just vote them out of office.

Mastengwe ,

Keep in mind though, that there’s a LOT of bad-faith propaganda-shilling accounts right here on lemmy desperately trying to convince you that both sides are equally as bad and not to vote this year.

Best advice is to report and block them when they share their misinformation and don’t fall for it.

I’m sure we all know who I’m talking about.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I keep telling people- the queer genocide that has already begun with Republican restrictions on trans rights and medical care is going to ramp way up and encompass queer people as a whole. Including my daughter.

And yet I keep being told I'm excusing genocide by voting for Biden in order to stop Trump from killing her.

lemmy_user_838586 ,

Yeaah.. It won't stop at transgender. Dude will have a kill list of all political opponents day one. Being liberal in America will be like being a jew in WW2 Germany. You'll have a target on your back if identified.

null ,
@null@slrpnk.net avatar

And yet I keep being told I'm excusing genocide by voting for Biden in order to stop Trump from killing her.

Lucky. I'm being told that I'm endorsing it for the same reason.

feedum_sneedson ,

Do you think this might be conflating internet-style "genocide" with the kind of genocide that involves gunning people down at an aid truck while they queue for food during a famine?

Moot point as I really don't think either party would be doing anything to stop the crisis. I do think we should be more careful with how we dilute language, though.

JPAKx4 ,

I will now be voting for Biden exclusively for this guys daughter

null ,
@null@slrpnk.net avatar

Perfect time to teach Biden a lesson by not voting for him -- or so I've been told by those with too much privilege and not enough brainpower.

thantik ,

They're all over the fucking place here. It's wild. They're almost for certain foreign cointelpro.

CarbonIceDragon ,
@CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social avatar

I do think theyre making perfect be the enemy of, well not exactly good, but in this case the better option, but Im not so sure theyre foreign ops. If you were running a campaign like that, wouldnt you want to concentrate your messaging on the places where the greatest number of people would be to see it, or at least a lot of people? Lemmy is certainly not immune to influence campaigns, Id bet it might even be more vulnerable than most given the lack of central control that might try to inhibit one, but its also currently incredibly small and obscure as far as social networks go. Would it really be considered worth the resources, to such a campaign, in its current state?

null ,
@null@slrpnk.net avatar

Agreed. They're dangerous and privileged -- it really doesn't need to be more complicated than that.

Daft_ish ,

Haha, yeah nothing to see here.

There was a point in 2016 when the bernouts started spouting on about how they were now voting for Trump. It's the exact same situation. They will disingenuously demand something that is not feasible then they will show their true colors while acting like they didn't intend on voting Trump from the get go.

For the love of god don't fall for it again.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/36b45297-fca9-4410-9240-167de5d89444.jpeg

mellowheat ,

Would it really be considered worth the resources, to such a campaign, in its current state?

I think it's more about the fact that this is the only place that doesn't just ban them.

wildbus8979 ,

They're almost for certain foreign cointelpro.

Where do I collect my cheque?

What we're telling y'all is that voting one more time for a neoliberal isn't going to make a meaningful change in stopping the inevitable descent into fascism that neoliberal policies have facilitated for the last 40 or 50 years.

It's like the saying goes: the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

ghostdoggtv ,

You're saying in one breath that Trump and Biden are the same and in the next that voting for either one of them equally insane. Both of those things are plainly false.

Won't make a difference means zero difference but Trump is literally the accelerationist choice.

wildbus8979 ,

You need to work on your reading comprehension. I never said they are the same. I said one is the product of the other.

People have been telling you this would happen for forty or fifty years.

ghostdoggtv ,

isn't going to make a meaningful change

My reading comprehension is just fine. You need an argument and it's not the one that you're getting.

wildbus8979 ,

Surely what the Democrats are doing is effective, and Christo fascism is now less of a threat than it was in 2016 and 2020. Right? They should clearly keep doing the same thing, it's working super well!

ghostdoggtv ,

Actually? 😂

wildbus8979 ,

Yes. Actually. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-trump-tied-outset-us-election-year-reutersipsos-poll-2024-01-10/

ghostdoggtv ,

I'm gonna be honest with you because you made me laugh.

I'm not clicking that poll story, but I did find it illuminating that you took my apparent question as openness to propaganda after you did that unhinged sarcastic shit. I don't give a fuck about Trump vs Biden polls. But I do appreciate the demonstration.

CarbonIceDragon ,
@CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social avatar

The thing is: the US is not a well-functioning democracy. It currently tries to be to some extent, but it's system especially at the national level is set up in a way that heavily biases power towards wealthy interests and rural states, both of which tend to favor conservative politics, and which mathematically garuntees only two parties can be viable at a time, with third parties merely providing a negative effect on whatever major party is closer to them. In a well designed democratic system, there'd be a much greater variety of political groups to support such that one that actually reasonably approximates a given person's views may exist, and voting for those groups would have practical consequence. But, we don't have that. Voting isn't completely inconsequential, hence one should still do it, but in our current state it's not enough to fix things by itself. But again, since it still does something even if not enough, it makes sense to try to get as much utility as possible out of it. At the moment, the only candidates that have any chance whatsoever of winning are a neoliberal and a fascist. Now, you can argue that the popularity of the fascist is a result of the failures of neoliberal policies and so voting for the candidate supporting those policies won't stop the popularity of the fascist ones, and that could be true- but the fascist is just going to bring about the fascist policies even faster. "The candidate that can fix things" isn't on the ballot of either major party right now, and the system mathematically garuntees that third parties are counterproductive at this level, so voting for meaningful change isn't an option here.

I'm not saying one should give up pushing for meaningful change. I'm saying that at the moment, getting that change is going to require more than just voting, at least at the national level and especially in the presidential election. I do not plan on voting for Biden in the coming general election because I am under some illusion that he's going to fix things. I plan on voting for him to stall for time. It isn't exiting, it's downright depressing, but on balance, it's still more moral in my view to take that option than the fascistic one, or to do nothing at all.

wildbus8979 ,

Exactly... It's almost like there's no interest to change any of that from those who benefit and continuing to vote for them or support them will continue to perpetuate this inevitable spiral.

Sometimes the only winning move is not to play. - Joshua (John Wood), War Games, 1983

Daft_ish ,

66% of americans make the "winning move" every election cycle.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Are you actually claiming that not voting will change things for the better?

pbbananaman ,

Cheque? lol don’t give yourself away too hard comrade.

wildbus8979 ,

I know this is doing to be fucking mind-blowing to you, bust some of us are dual nationals.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Okay, so who should we vote for?

NobodyElse ,

Or you could say that this issue and all the others mean so little to the Democratic Party that running anybody but Genocide Joe is off the table.

SayJess ,
@SayJess@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Genocide Joe

Jesus Christ. The US government has never given a single shit about the plight of the Palestinians.

The politicians just need a bit more time steeping before they’ll be ready to pretend that they supported Palestine all along. That is of course, if the public continues to like the cause.

PhlubbaDubba ,

Hi, it's me, a Palestinian American, how about don't use my people's plight to justify letting the guy who wants to deport my ass for liking Knaffeh get into office?

I have enough issues without truck nuts McGee feeling re-emboldened to call me Sand Nigger and Towelhead.

AllonzeeLV ,

I'm voting for Biden to stave off Jerry Lewis Hitler, as I did last cycle and Clinton before.

That said, a lot of Biden enthusiasts need to stop with the "you also need to say you like him and his politics" crap.

No one should feel enthused about always getting wildly varying degrees of bad as the only choice, merely afraid. At this point we're voting whether to keep the water pumps on as Titanic sinks to buy a little time instead of declaring the water at our waist "fake."

Vote to keep the pumps on, sure, but it helps nothing to pretend our rigged capitalist hellscape, that neoliberals and fascists alike declare as "the only way," isn't eating the itself and us and defended by both parties far above the people (we will take every measure to protect our beloved society economy! Here Fed, I'm sure you'll ensure these relief funds trickle down after private shareholders get plenty of relief, of course), while it continues wrecking the planet for a few more short term cash grabs before the owners fly off to their prepared havens, con complete. Nox.

A vote for Biden is a vote for us to not add state sponsored scapegoating, persecution, and ending bodily autonomy to our doom in motion like a cherry. Yes let's do that(edit: meaning vote for Biden if unclear)...

https://www.noaa.gov/news-release/warmest-arctic-summer-on-record-is-evidence-of-accelerating-climate-change

...but don't delude yourself into believing it's any kind of salvation.

null ,
@null@slrpnk.net avatar

That said, a lot of Biden enthusiasts need to stop with the “you also need to say you like him and his politics” crap.

That's certainly not a significantly pervasive mindset -- at least not around here. The general sentiment is "hold your nose and vote for him anyways".

ghostdoggtv ,

...but don't delude yourself into believing it's any kind of salvation

Why, are there very many evangelical democrats that need reminding?

I just want a functional fucking government

knightly ,
@knightly@pawb.social avatar

Functional government

Ｎｏｔ　ａｖａｉｌａｂｌｅ　ｉｎ　ＵＳＡ

ferralcat ,

No one is saying you have to be enthused. They're saying you have to pretend to be enthused. Because the strategy of "I'm going to tell everyone I hate this guy so I don't loose any cool points with my friends who the maturity of 16 year olds" is a losing one for you and minorities and LGBT people and women and basically everyone you're fucking over.

mellowheat ,

That said, a lot of Biden enthusiasts need to stop with the “you also need to say you like him and his politics” crap.

What's great about this is that the lack of awareness and strategy practically guarantees that far left will never rule in the US.

What sucks about is that since vote margins are always razor thin, saying things like that might very well put Larry the Fascist Guy back to power.

Drinvictus ,

I guess being a Muslim and feeling pain when I see a dead baby is "privilege" nowadays. Have you considered the idea that for some people not funding a genocide is more important than anything else? You can't keep bombing the middle east, say "orange man bad" and expect people to vote for you. I don't give a shit at this point. I'll vote for whoever's running against a person who took a dime from AIPAC.

null ,
@null@slrpnk.net avatar

I guess being a Muslim and feeling pain when I see a dead baby is “privilege” nowadays.

Weird guess, but no.

Privilege is knowing that not voting for Biden increases the risk of a Trump presidency, and making that choice anyways. The only way it isn't is if you genuinely believe Trump would be better.

Orange man is bad. Of course he is.

Drinvictus ,

Oh I didn't say I'm not voting for Biden. Read again. I said I'm voting for whoever's running against a person that took a dime from AIPAC. Fuck anyone who thinks what's going on in Palestine is acceptable. Things wouldn't have come to this point if morons like you actually spoke up and protested against Biden instead of calling people idiots for not voting for him. But your privileged ass didn't do shit for genocide and now want people to go crazy over LGBTQ rights.

null ,
@null@slrpnk.net avatar

If you're voting for Biden, then you're pretty clearly not the type of person I'm calling privileged, right?

Things wouldn’t have come to this point if morons like you actually spoke up and protested against Biden

Don't call me a moron. And don't claim that I didn't speak out against Biden. Be better than that.

PhlubbaDubba ,

"I don't like the guy who's not cutting off funding to Israel because he thinks a soft touch is needed to talk them off the ledge, so I'm going to let the guy who handed them East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights back into office."

That's what fetishizers think any muslims or arabs (because they are not the same thing l3anhon'allah!!!) will do here and cite to justify letting "orange man" back into office.

Illuminostro ,

Fuck Putin, and his puppet Trump.

morphballganon ,

There are millions of people who will read the first half of your comment, think it's a good idea and skip the rest. What have you done?

alcoholicorn ,

What's more realistic: Shaming everyone in the country until they vote for someone doing genocide, or telling Biden to stop facilitating a genocide?

Mastengwe ,

If you don’t vote, you’re saying that you’re completely fine with allowing others to choose for you. Because whether you know it or not- someone will be elected with or without your participation.

This is not up for debate. This is a HARD fact.

So fold your arms and pout all you wish, but an election is happening- and as many have said, Palestine is going to face a MUCH worse under Trump.

Poem_for_your_sprog ,

My vote has never made a difference. I still vote despite it being pointless.

alcoholicorn ,

You have completely lost the plot. The election isn't for 7 months.

Instead of convincing Biden to stop the genocide, which he can do right now, today, you're spending your time trying to get people to say they're gonna vote for Biden even if he continues facilitating genocide.

Dark_Arc ,
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

And that's a major over simplification. Biden isn't God he can't snap his fingers and make Israel do what he wants, certainly not without putting the alliance between the US and Israel at risk ... and it's getting to be a dangerous time in the world when having friends is important.

Just today they announced the US would be air dropping aid to Gaza. It's not like nothing is being done. I'd like more to be done, but yeah I'm voting for him either way because the alternative is Trump. I'm not going to pretend I'm not voting for him and the many other things he's done and his policy objectives that I like because of the actions of another country that he's supporting... Matching decades of US policy precedent.

alcoholicorn ,

Biden isn’t God he can’t snap his fingers and make Israel do what he wants

He can stop sending them the tools they're using to carry out genocide. Ronald Reagan merely threatened to do it once and they came to heel.

the alliance between the US and Israel

Israel depends on the US for its existence. They will do what is required for financial, military, and diplomatic aid.

it’s getting to be a dangerous time in the world when having friends is important.

How friendly do we look when we're facilitating a genocide, and bombing Yemen for trying to do something about it?

Dropping food does not make up for our client state machine gunning people trying to get food.

If the US really wanted to make friends, they'd oppose the existence of a zionist ethnostate.

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