Stop being elitist, spread Linux!

Linux needs to grow. Stop telling people it's 'tech-y' or acting like you're more advanced for using it, you are scaring away people. Linux Mint can be used by a senile person perfectly.

Explain shortly the benefits, 'faster, more secure, easier to use, main choices of professionals and free'. Ask questions that let you know if they need to dual boot, 'do you use Adobe, anti-cheat games, or Microsoft Office', 'how new is your computer', 'do you use a Mac'.

And most importantly, offer to help them install.

They don't understand the concept of distros, just suggest Linux Mint LTS Cinnamon unless they're curious.

That's it, spread Linux to as many people as possible. The larger the marketshare, the better support we ALL get. We can fight enshittification. Take the time to spread it but don't force it on anyone.

AND STOP SCARING PEOPLE AWAY.
Linux has no advertising money, it's up to us.

Offer family members or friends your help or copy and paste the below

how to install linux: 1) copy down your windows product key 2) backup your files to a harddrive 3) install the linux mint cinnamon iso from the linux mint website 4) use etcher (download from its website) to put the iso on a usb flash drive 5) go into bios 6) boot from the usb 7) erase the storage and install 8) press update all in the update manager 9) celebrate. it takes 15 minutes.

edit:
LET ME RE-STATE, DO NOT FORCE IT ON ANYONE.

and if someone is at the level of ignorance (not in a derogatory fashion) that they dont know what a file even is genuinely dont bother unless theyre your parents cause youll be tech support for their 'how do i install the internet' questions.

zwekihoyy ,

it is not more secure for the average user. sure it can be hardened to a great degree but that takes proper knowledge of the underlying architecture. for the average user's ootb experience, Linux is the least secure option.

jackpot OP ,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

malware isnt targeted towards linux and if theyre not running wine theyre safer. also, open source software's dangerousness can be evaluated more easily than proprietary ones

zwekihoyy ,

open source exists elsewhere and security through obscurity is a terrible, strawman argument

jackpot OP ,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

im arguing against securitt thrpugh obscuriry, we're on the same side

zwekihoyy ,

the argument that Linux is less popular therefore less targeted is both misguided and a security through obscurity based argument. Linux is the most used server operating system and servers are targeted more than any individual and those server based malware often works on desktop versions as well.

fruitycoder ,

Least secure isn't accurate. The security model for Linux of apps being from a trusted repo or sandboxed from flatpaks is better than Windows defaults to.

dylanTheDeveloper ,
@dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world avatar

Windows has fallen billions must use Android and IOS

jackpot OP ,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

grapheneos

wahming ,

Linux is not ready for mainstream users. I daily drive Mint, have a recent (2 year old) system, and still run into annoying bugs that would drive non-techies back to Windows. My current issue is my permanently attached external hdd mounting under a new folder name every reboot. Other issues I've had to resolve include (but are not limited to) bluetooth, graphics drivers, software repos, etc. I would not want to become tech support for somebody else dealing with their random issues because I recommended Linux.

WeirdGoesPro ,
@WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Mounting to a new folder name? Wtf? Are you running this as a VM? What does your fstab look like? This is going to keep me up at night, you monster. /s

wahming ,

Yep, WTF indeed. It appends a '1' to the end of the old name. The old one stays as a permanent folder

Nope, bare metal.

Default untouched. Haven't had a chance to dig into it yet

WeirdGoesPro ,
@WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

There’s only one option—drive a stake through its heart, cut the head off, and never speak of it again. That thing’s cursed.

wahming ,

I have porn there, not the bible.

Willie ,

No, it's better to be honest. The average user isn't ready for Linux, because Linux is not ready for the average user. I'd never try and get someone to use it if they're not already interested. I hate that it is this way, but it is. Linux is only really for people who already want to use it. Because if you're not interested in using it, you're not going to put forth the time investment to gain the benefits from it. No matter what angle I look at it from Linux is not for the average person.

Your second paragraph says it all. Find out if the user needs to dual boot? The answer is obviously "No" because no matter what they're using the computer for, Linux is unneeded for them, since they have Windows. There are tangible benefits to using Windows, since it runs their software, meanwhile, you failed to list any real benefits to using Linux for the average user. It's faster? No, not really, since they'll be learning how to use it, and even ignoring that, it's not so much faster that they'll perceive it anyway. It's more secure? Not really, Windows is the better choice for the average user in that respect, since it'll automatically force them to restart the machine every week to install security updates. Main choice of professionals? That's not entirely true, and even if it were, it's not relevant, the average user is not a professional. And for anyone who already owns a computer already running Windows, Windows was 'free' too.

The only time to have this discussion is if the user is having a PC built, and then the answer is also "No" to Linux, because they're going to buy Windows anyway, since it's better for gaming, and that's the primary reason for someone to build a PC, unless they're doing a specialized task like video editing, and if they are invested enough into the task to want a PC just for that, they have specialized software that almost always runs only on Windows, and even if it were able to run on either, it's not my place to alter their workflow.

The real elitist attitude is thinking people need to use Linux in the first place. For me and (maybe) you, it might get the job done, but for my family and friends. It's better that they use what they're comfortable with. The main point of a computer is to accomplish tasks, and giving them Linux is a hindrance to that.

Linux is great, but it's not for everyone, and it may never be.

bouh ,

That's plain wrong. That's not honest, that's elitist at best.

No user ever installed windows. So the whole installation and driver thing is a dishonest question.

Even for gaming on a custom PC, just take an amd card and games on steam, it'll run smoothly.

Browsing Internet and desktop? Works fine on Linux. Fuck office, you don't need it.

If you need a computer for a specific software, that's a different matter. But presenting it like everyone is concerned is dishonest.

The security paragraph is complete nonsense. And obnoxiously rebooting is a major hindrance for most people, and it's not avoidable without the professional licence.

It's not 2010 anymore.

narc0tic_bird ,
@narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee avatar

"Fuck office, you don't need it." <- the audacity to assume someone doesn't need something.

bouh ,

No one needs office unless the company forces it.

tigerjerusalem ,

Thank you. Windows is plain better for the average user, and that's a hard pill for many to swallow. Heck, I force myself to use Linux time to time but I always go back because the Affinity suite and my fingerprint reader only works on Windows. I have no reason to stay on Linux, it's too limited outside niche cases.

_sideffect ,

I was just about to install Linux mint (once I free up space on my drive, that is)

jackpot OP ,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

get the edge version if youre running new hardware and use the update manager the second you first boot

_sideffect ,

Im installing it next to my current install of windows, but I'm going to make a new partition

I never heard of the edge version

Marduk73 ,
@Marduk73@sh.itjust.works avatar

casually mentions how i run linux.
other person. that's cool. continues with windows.

if they don't want to hear it, they don't want to hear it. but if they do, they know they can ask.

ULS ,

No. Make them use it. Force them. Hit them if you need to. Make sure they do an Arch install without any scripts and don't help them

Look at them harshly thoughout the whole interaction and let them know they are less then us.

limitedduck ,

I went through Arch install and I'm doing just fine, thanks. They just moved me out of the ICU to a new unit called "Palliative". It's quite comfy.

ULS ,

Welcome to the club. You're a real Linux user now.

drwankingstein ,

I generally disagree with trying to get people to use linux now. Im seeing a lot of people leaving linux and getting turned off by the idea of it.

Aside from outliers like Android and Chrome OS, I do not think Linux is in a suitable state for non-techy people to use unfortunately. I'm really hoping PopOS will be able to change things in the future, however as it stands I really don't think it is ready for prime time.

Users expect things that kind of just work and Linux Mint has not been that experience for me. I found the app store to be kind of annoying to use and complicated. The settings app were not very well laid out and miscellaneous stuff like that, which kind of ruins the experience.

Meanwhile, there are just general Linux issues to accessibility becoming worse and worse instead of better. You have issues like we still don't have a distro with good wine integration so people can use the apps they actually need to use. The apps that we do have natively, are oftentimes relatively... janky. If you're comparing Libreoffice to Microsoft Office, the experience is just not the same, even if the technical capability is.

EDIT: I want Linux to succeed just as much as anybody else. In fact, I think I might want it to succeed more because I absolutely detest maintaining Windows installs. However, lying about the state of Linux and being dishonest about it is not the way to go about this. We should be honest with all of its issues, so to speak. So that way we can strive to make them better instead of ignoring them and sweeping them under the rug for the people we tell to trial and to find instead.

hendrik ,

If I might ask: Who is leaving and what for? Mac? I've seen some developers buy the newer M2/M3 Macbooks. I think they're nice. But not nice enough to pay the price for one with a decent amount of RAM and storage myself.

ares35 ,

i have a client in need of a new laptop to replace an aging windows one with multiple issues. a $280 sale of a 12th gen 1215u with 8gb and 250gb ssd staring at him, and way more than they 'need'. but his wife, a k12 teacher, will insist upon a macbook when she retires and has to give hers back to the district. so they're looking at about $1000 instead, minimum.

hendrik , (edited )

Mmh, everyone is allowed to make stupid choices. I've told multiple people that drawers in the kitchen and in your wardrobe are awesome. That you don't need the Adobe suite to cut your 1.5 travel videos a year, let alone a $1200 phone... Stop using software when we have way better alternatives that are also easier to use. Many people don't listen. And they're entitled not to listen to me, it's their money, life and choices.

pete ,

Third best enterprise OS.

tsonfeir ,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

Well, it’s better than Windows, so besides Linux what is better than macOS?

pete ,

Not in an enterprise setting, so patato potato

tsonfeir ,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

Depends on the enterprise.

tsonfeir ,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

Is $1900 too much for a blazing fast laptop with 1TB/24GB that will have support for 10 years?

hendrik ,

I'm sorry, I really don't get all the innuendo here. Are we talking about a Macbook or another laptop here that gets support for 10 years? I like to pay about 1200€ for a laptop and it usually lasts me like 6-8 years. But 1 TB SSD is a bit short of what I'm comfortable with. If I configure a M3 Macbook with 24GB of RAM and 2TB of SSD it comes down to 3149€. That is about $3.400 after taxes. Another laptop I really like is the frame.work laptop. The AMD Ryzen 7 should be plenty fast. The price including 32GB of memory and 2 TB of storage is 1918€ or about $2.070 after taxes. And in the years to come you can fix it and upgrade it however you like. So your $1900 sounds about right if it's blazing fast and lasts you 10 years. I just wonder which laptop you're talking about.

tsonfeir ,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

It’s a 15” MacBook Air M2. The closest frame.work laptop I could configure was $5 off from what you said, so I think we are going for the same specs.

I love the framework system. If I was going PC that’s absolutely who I’d go with. All those swappable ports?! I’m drooling.

All of my Apple laptops last a long time. I’m still using my 13” 2013 MacBook Air when I go on vacation. It’s so light and small. I’ve had to replace the battery on it, but I think that’s to be expected.

hendrik , (edited )

Fair enough. Yeah, the framework is a gem. And I learned about the M2 and M3 Macbooks because some people do AI / machine learning stuff on them and they seem to perform exceptionally well. I don't think I'm a Mac guy, I'd probably need Linux to achieve happiness. I haven't kept up but last time I checked M2 support was coming along.

Anyhow, my last two laptops were Thinkpads. They were both good machines, suffered quite some abuse and are still running. The old one is pretty damaged though, display hinges broken and some obvious damage, fan does everything but what it's supposed to do. But it served me well for god knows how long. I think I went through 3 or 4 batteries until I finally replaced that one. The one after that also refuses to die. But it's getting old and slow and I'm not willing to spend the money to upgrade the RAM and also buy a new battery. It didn't last me as long as the one before. I'm just not in love with their current lineup. Next laptop isn't going to be another Thinkpad. Maybe I'll go for a Framework.

drwankingstein ,

I have had multiple friends I've gotten to try linux for a prolonged period of time leave back to windows or mac, (In one case ChromeOS). There are a variety of issues, needing to constantly wrangle to get games working even with lutris and steam, Various accessibility issues, Microsoft office as I mentioned etc.

the general consensus was "it often did most of what they needed it to do, but not all, and often times not well enough"

hendrik , (edited )

Uuh. Yeah I believe you. I can't really empathize with that because on friday I booted the Windows on my laptop and it took like one and a half hours with the fan on maximum and two restarts until it had done the updates of the last three months since I've last used it. And then the Steam main window started flickering like crazy and I had to reboot it once or twice more, fix the boot order since it also messed with that and the graphics issues luckily went away on their own. I like to do development and dabble in electronics projects and that's also so clumsy on windows. You need like 20 different tools to get a task done and windows doesn't come with a single one of them. No git, no proper editor, nothing to mess with firmware files or flash them onto the microcontroller Not even the driver for some really standard USB/Serial chips. You can't read some of the filesystems, it can only extract one or two types of archives and always something gets in your way and messes up your workflow... And speaking of workflows... I really like the unix philosophy, it's soo convenient to use computers with a proper cli. In windows there is no equivalent to that, you're supposed to use a plethora of UI tools, or nowadays use the WSL and just install Linux. And that's just one aspect of what I do on my laptop. Guess it's different for everyone of us. I mean I don't judge. It's just, I've tried both and I just can't imagine how I'd enjoy using Windows. But everyone should make that decision for themselves. (Sorry for rambling on and on. I was really a bit pissed before the weekend. And turns out I still am. The "things have fewer issues on windows" somehow never works out for me.)

drwankingstein ,

oh I absolute hate windows too, personally I can never stop running into issues with it. I have this really bloody stupid issue where every now and then my screen will flicker purple for no reason, AMD driver updates will constantly kick me out of my games with the stupid console open but blank. and so many other idiotic issues. It's weird, it's a;most as if the second you become technologically inclined windows intentionally breaks itself xD

hendrik ,

Hmmh. Something is going on here.

flashgnash ,

This, don't get why people are so set on convincing the world to switch.

Userbase is big enough that support is pretty good, we've all got what we want out of it, why try to push it on people who don't care about technology

BaldProphet ,

People making OS their religion and following one of the Penguin Creeds:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, installing Linux in the name of Torvalds, Stallman, and the Holy Kernel: Teaching them to use only FOSS software. Amen.

flashgnash ,

See the whole point of Linux to me seems to be to allow user choice.

Windows and Mac are just as valid choices depending on a user's needs

drwankingstein ,

Personally, I want everyone to switch. I help my family all the time with their computing needs. I myself would greatly prefer them running linux all the time, but needs are needs.

bloodfart ,

Stop doing this. Just be normal.

dylanTheDeveloper ,
@dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world avatar

No, Linux (especially arch Linux) is the far superior operating system where the only limit is skill and knowledge.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/30fbd006-73c9-4349-a11d-0f31f9a9cd77.jpeg

luca ,

I see this more as a thought experiment. You can't really tell other people what they should use. I can't also do that at my workplace. If someone comes to me for help fixing their PC I can of course tell them just use Linux, but most of the time I need to reinstall the OS it came with. The Linux culture is intrinsically elitist, that's just the way it is. That's not to mean that you need to be a jerk about it, I use Arch btw, use whatever fits your needs.

Some time ago I got a mini PC for my dad who was curious about the web and stuff and I haven't hat a shred of a doubt that it would be Linux. To satisfy my own curiosity, I used it as an excuse to do some distro hopping and tried a lot of distros to try and find a balance between ease of use (from a standpoint of an elderly person) and my own nerdyness. I ended up installing a KDE based distro because the UI can easily be customized, resized and simplified for his needs. But let's be honest, not anybody is willing to spend hours searching and trying different operating systems and tweaking and stuff. Also the web sucks nowadays for people that are not used to it, for example how should I explain all the stupid cookie stuff, or the ads in between articles. Come on just be nice to people.

jackpot OP ,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

im confused, whats the thought experiment here?

luca ,

Well, you've said it yourself, don't force it on anyone.

randomaside ,
@randomaside@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

You know back in the day they used to sell Linux distributions on the shelf at software stores. I remember seeing a boxed copy of mandriva next to windows. Home computing used to be a hobby for some but that means there was commercial support at some point.

I do think that home users of "Linux" will need a commercial alternative that supports all their apps. ChromeOS looks like the current best alternative. If you can get people into chrome books, you're one step closer to getting them onto Linux.

jackpot OP ,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

what are the catches of chromeos

PseudoSpock ,
@PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

You mean, besides being chromeos? ;)

force ,

everything. everything about it sucks. it's like the chastity cage of OSes, even moreso than Apple OSes

chepycou ,
@chepycou@rcsocial.net avatar

@randomaside @jackpot I'd disagree, chromeOS really is the worst

Kristof12 ,
@Kristof12@lemmy.ml avatar

Billions need to switch to linux to save the planet

model_tar_gz , (edited )

I’m a Linux user and fan for a lot of years now. Software engineer by profession.

It’s not ready for widespread adoption to the less tech-savvy masses.

It misses some functionality that is really hard to get right but is absolutely expected to get right. For example: graceful suspend and wakeups. It happens so often even to me that I close my Linux laptop for the day, next morning open it up to a bunch of warnings and error messages about Bluetooth adapters or whatever the device of the day that wants to malfunction is that prevents a sound S2 S3 sleep.

I don’t get freaked out about it. But grandma sure would. And yet my 10 year old MacBook Pro gets it right every single fucking time; completely flawlessly. This is the bar of usability that Linux has to achieve for widespread adoption as a true, polished, personal computing experience.

edit: meant S3 sleep.

funkless_eck ,

It also doesn't help that doing anything in Linux requires weird little guys like "mv" or "mkdir" or "chmod 777"

csm10495 ,
@csm10495@sh.itjust.works avatar

I wouldn't do this since I don't want to be even more tech support for people I know.

My mom has used windows for as long as she has had a computer and still doesn't know what the start button or the windows key are.

I've explained it millions of times.

I'm not signing up for more of that than we need.

jaykay ,
@jaykay@lemmy.zip avatar

As much as I like the premise, the average Joe doesn’t care.

It is techy, as long as it’s not seamless to transition, average person won’t bother.

What a person knows already > all of the other benefits. That’s why people use Photoshop and not GIMP.

If they need to dual boot, forget it. “Can’t I just use windows instead if I have to switch anyway?”

If they can’t install it themselves, they won’t bother learning the system. Say what you want but I think Windows still shits itself less than Linux. And when it does there is a lot more people who can help without typing in cryptic commands into the terminal.

For Linux to become more popular, more open standards would need to be mainstream. Leave Adobe, MS Office and other proprietary software that everyone uses. It’s like asking people to stop using PDFs because YOU a techy person think MD is better or whatever.

ScreaminOctopus ,

I disagree with your photoshop vs gimp point. People don't use gimp because the ui is complete shit. Tons of people switched to Krita for drawing when that came out because it actually had thought put into the user experience. People don't use GIMP because no matter how much anyone begs for the devs to make the ui not suck, nothing ever changes.

jaykay ,
@jaykay@lemmy.zip avatar

Yeah, “ease of use” wasn’t the best argument, the rest still stands though. I shouldn’t have brought it up. I myself hate the UI a lot. Don’t care what they add, change the UI

jelloeater85 ,
@jelloeater85@lemmy.world avatar

I say it all the time, people care about apps and browsing websites, they don't care about the how, just the what. Too many techy folks cannot see it as a business and human problem.

Plopp ,

The UI of Gimp is pretty damn bad, but if you've used Photoshop you probably will be able to handle the Gimp UI. However, if you use Photoshop for anything more advanced than the most rudimentary MS Paint shit, Gimp is out of the question due to it using destructive editing.

WeirdGoesPro ,
@WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

But you’re forgetting the most important thing—people don’t want to change. They want a big corporation to tie themselves to because brand loyalty is a replacement for the need to learn.

Linux isn’t going to replace your phone with AppleCare. Linux doesn’t have a support line to bitch to or a geek squad to call. In fact, most of the places your typical user would think to go for support will likely balk at a Linux system because they aren’t power users either—just employees trained for a specific service.

I love Linux. I flirt with going 100% FOSS all the time. But I wouldn’t recommend it for my mom. All the free security in the world couldn’t replace the value of being able to tell her “take it to Apple and let them fix it for you”.

So yes, I’m with you, but I also think we need to acknowledge that all tools serve a purpose, and some people prefer the kids meal over the big boy buffet—and that’s ok.

Octorine ,

There are companies working on providing that experience for Linux. System76 is one. You can buy a laptop with their is pre installed. Everything works, including suspend. If something breaks, you call the support number or email and they either talk you through fixing it or sending it in for repair or replacement. It's not that different from having a Dell or HP.

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