Kimdracula ,

Modern society. At the end 60s hippies were right after all...

tiefling ,

The USA

don ,

Humans.

HurlingDurling ,
@HurlingDurling@lemmy.world avatar

Opting for gasoline over electricity early on when cars started to become a thing, we were already going electric, but a smear campaign put fear into people's minds about electric and switched tk gasoline.

arxdat ,
@arxdat@lemmy.ml avatar

We always have to pander to the capitalists profits, how could the make money with clean electricity???

CanadaPlus , (edited )

Batteries could have been standard for a bit longer, but it seems to me that eventually the need to go faster for longer would have forced combustion engines to be a thing. All they had were lead-acid batteries (or primary cells, but that would be dumb) and new more energy-dense chemistries didn't show up for a long time after. Maybe they could have found one if they really needed, but it's a tricky science even today, so I'm skeptical.

It's possible, I suppose, that infrastructure could have been rolled out for both en mass, but I don't see an even mix lasting through the whole 20th century. Probably not even past WWII.

HurlingDurling ,
@HurlingDurling@lemmy.world avatar

That's because of car companies pushing the mentality that everyone needs to drive everywhere... for freedom and shit.

We could have been more like europe is today and have a robust railsystem. Shit, we could have had the best rail system in the world.

CanadaPlus ,

Or, y'know, there's a war on and you can't stop to recharge, or you need to cross a desert, or you just want to do an express route with one vehicle...

Combustion is just a superior vehicle technology vs. lead-acid electric, assuming you don't worry about emissions, and that will show up in plenty of contexts. Eventually, lead-acid would go the way of the other workable-but-not-as-nice technologies like crystal radios or black-and-white film.

HurlingDurling ,
@HurlingDurling@lemmy.world avatar

So... there isnt a war in the US right now, and there probablywont be one.

"Lead-acid electric..." when was the last time you looked at an electric car. Electric cars can now give you 400+ miles of range just like ICE vehicles, and I don't have to scavenge fuel from who knows where, all I need is a few solar panels and I'm good... eventually.

Also, IF this was a war zone, I'd rather be whisper quiet than to tell everyone around that I'm driving by with the sound of an engine. Oh and it's easier to remain undetected by food than on a vehicle anyway.

CanadaPlus ,

Yeah, I know, I'm not arguing against electric now, or even as a concept then. This was an alt-history exercise, remember?

Batteries could have been standard for a bit longer, but it seems to me that eventually the need to go faster for longer would have forced combustion engines to be a thing. All they had were lead-acid batteries (or primary cells, but that would be dumb) and new more energy-dense chemistries didn’t show up for a long time after. Maybe they could have found one if they really needed, but it’s a tricky science even today, so I’m skeptical.

It’s possible, I suppose, that infrastructure could have been rolled out for both en mass, but I don’t see an even mix lasting through the whole 20th century. Probably not even past WWII.

CanadaPlus , (edited )

Human history, as a whole, is so depressing and meandering it's a weird question to try and answer. Were the great empires a success, or a failure? It depends on if you're measuring monuments built or social justice enacted, and if you're comparing against modern polities or whatever shitty local warlord they replaced. History doesn't really have an end goal, as much as we'd like it to.

Maybe you just meant a personal failure:

Thomas Midgley is one of my favourites, because he's famous for three things: Inventing leaded gasoline, inventing ozone-destroying PCBs, and inventing an accessibility contraption that strangled Thomas Midgley. He did nothing else of note; he's like the real life Bloody Stupid Johnson.

Pheidippides of Battle of Marathon fame is famous for running a long way just to deliver some news first, and then dying from exhaustion. People regularly make the same trip and are fine. He was regarded as a hero, and the races were originally in his honour, but I wouldn't want to be him. Edit: Maybe not a great example, actually. The story names a much longer distance than a marathon, although it's kinda mythical.

Muhammad II of Khwarazm received an envoy from Ghengis Khan, who wasn't bent on invading at all but wanted trade, and decided to steal their shit and kick them out instead. Then he killed the people sent next to ask for a nice apology. You can guess where that went.

The Soviets once tried to sextort Indonesian quasi-communist leader Sukarno with a tape. It did not work, because he was shamelessly proud of his "virility". In at least some tellings he misinterprets the KGB's presentation as a gift, although I doubt he could have been that dumb.

pixeltree ,
@pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Isn't what we call a marathon just the last short leg of his journey, and he ran like 100-150 miles?

CanadaPlus ,

In addition to mixing up the man and the place, I got that wrong. Fixed.

tacosplease ,

If it's the same person I'm thinking about he understood that it was blackmail but didn't care. He requested copies of the tape to keep for himself.

CanadaPlus ,

"Thanks bro/comrade!" would be a great way to play this off diplomatically with someone you still want to be allies with, so that could be the origin of that bit.

Sanctus ,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

Fostering societal systems of greed and competition rather than of cooperation and compassion.

tetris11 ,
@tetris11@lemmy.ml avatar

The problem with cooperation and compassion is that it literally takes one dick to ruin it. If we could incentivize the psychopaths in society to collaborate for their own good, then at least we'd strike a nice balance, but our economies aren't structured that way.

A system that can be so easily destabilized is not a system that has planned for the long term. I think we're slowly getting there, as even the dicks in society are beginning to realise that they can be shunned for their public actions, and that shunning does come with real financial consequences.

Sanctus ,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

I just can't subscribe to that idea. If it took 1 dick to ruin everything society would never have gotten off the ground in the first place. Hell, even today, our power grid pretty much operates off the principle of 'don't be a dick and shoot this with the guns we all have" and it took MAGA craziness for people to attack them. I'd say compassion operates within any given system in spite of people being dicks and thats why we have prevailed the way we have.

tetris11 ,
@tetris11@lemmy.ml avatar

You make a good point

MeetInPotatoes ,

This, we moved from Tribes to towns to cities to be more efficient but lost the cooperative aspect of the tribe which made it more efficient in the first place. Now corporations do market research until they figure out exactly what we can afford to get our needs met and then charge that price instead of anything related to their actual costs. It's resulted in a situation to where most people live month to month and can't afford vacation or even an unexpected car repair.

Sanctus ,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

Thats me. My car, teeth, hair, and some parts of my rental house (thanks landlord) are falling apart and I can't afford to fix any of it cause rent and bills are due each month and they keep going up. Its fucken madness, its making me insane.

MeetInPotatoes ,

Cheers from across the hellscape, friend.

z00s ,

The United States of America

IsoSpandy ,

Agriculture.

CanadaPlus ,

Because it lead directly to feudalism and other forms of autocracy?

IsoSpandy ,

Ohh it's much worse than that. Usually humans would live to around 60 if they survived infancy before that. Their diet was varied and since food was a limited resource, there was no way of population blasts. But agriculture just fucked it all up. We stopped moving around since the land needed constant maintainence and since the diet became mostly carbohydrates, combined with back breaking work, our life expectancy dropped to 40. We didn't domesticate wheat, wheat domesticated us.
It took modern medicine... ie 20th century to get the average life expectancy up again.

I recommend you read the book called Sapiens. It's an eye opener.

hanrahan ,
@hanrahan@slrpnk.net avatar

Agriculture

MeetInPotatoes ,

Let's go with the atomic bomb...if you disagree, consider that we made a weapon too powerful to ever be used again, but nations that have them get taken way more seriously in diplomacy.

And let's be serious, it's pretty much tick-tock, tick-tock before they get used again when they get put in the hands of zealots. Let's be doubly serious, it will be religion that convinces some leader that they are within their divine rights to cleanse the world of their enemies.

ssm , (edited )
@ssm@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

letting unqualified businessmen rule the planet instead of experts in their given fields.

MeetInPotatoes ,

For me, this post is right under the person who said "Agriculture" and the response "Because it lead directly to feudalism and other forms of autocracy?"

And if unqualified businessmen ruling instead of experts in their "given fields" isn't a perfect way to describe feudalism, I don't know if irony has survived.

over_clox ,

The discovery of making and using fire.

DNOS ,

Why

over_clox ,

It's the very beginning of the energy crisis. If we had never started fucking with fire, we wouldn't have 90% or more of the world's manmade problems.

DNOS ,

Yeah we could argue about having mankind at all ...

over_clox ,

Pesky humans, we are our own worst enemy.. ☹️

Vej ,

Leaded fuel

neidu2 ,

At least it was (mostly) dealt with. Cars generally don't need it anymore, and the few that do can reduce engine knock through additives. I don't think I've ever seen a pump offering leaded fuel.

One big exception to all of this is small general aviation aircraft. They mostly run on AVGAS100LL, but it's not because of the planes anymore. Just like cars, the few planes that need it can use additives. But regulation for fuel standards change slowly, and ICAO moves at the pace of glacial drift.

scytale ,

They were probably also alluding to the long term effects it had on likely the people who are still the most influential age group still running the world.

morbidcactus ,

I remember one of my engineering profs describing Midgley as the most environmentally destructive organism ever, Dude also was involved in the creation of freon.

BruceTwarzen ,

But he also killed the biggest environmentally destructive person on the planet.

Tier1BuildABear ,
@Tier1BuildABear@lemmy.world avatar

Humans.

AnxiousDuck ,

MS Excel

tmpod Mod ,
@tmpod@lemmy.pt avatar

Are you referring to Microsoft's spreadsheet software in particular or to spreadsheet software in general?

In both cases, why?

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