Anybody using a framework laptop?

I have been looking at them a lot recently and they have a premium price is it worth it?

What does it look like when you want to upgrade? Like can you just swap out all parts over time and essentially it’s like having a custom desktop, but in small form factor.

Can you buy a base model and upgrade components over time?

Would it suit my use cases for it? Which are to run Linux, I have to use Windows as a Software Dev and so can’t do it on my main. Can I run Minecraft on Linux? I know, but I like that game it makes me happy to unwind.

I want to get more into cyber security related tasks and most likely increase my Darknet activities using Tails.

geography082 ,

This is stuff for people that don’t know what to do with the money . Gus we are no longer in the 90s , just use the first cheap crap used you can get

dependencyinjection OP ,

Can you expand on this as it’s a pretty wild take to me.

geography082 ,

There are millions of of laptops and hardware in the used market . Instead of create new waste, even if it’s an anti waste project, you are generating waste. And nowadays for common task you can use almost any kind of laptop for common tasks. What I’m trying to say is that given the amount of already hardware in the market , buying a new thing won’t help. Just don’t buy new. We need a circular global market. And wipe the already trash that was already built, but by using the already built tings until they are unusable .

dependencyinjection OP ,

Now I understand what you were trying to say in your original comment. Even if you came across as rude

I do agree that people should buy used stuff when they can, however if one wants to get the latest technology then I don’t see an issue in buying a Framework laptop. There would be zero waste from this purchase as once it was time to upgrade again, the old parts would be repurposed as server anyway, I would 3D print a case and off I go.

Buying used is also great if you don’t want the latest tech, and let’s also mention buying used isn’t easy. Lots of scammers, misrepresentation of products, etc.

cwg1231 ,

You can indeed run Minecraft on Linux. In my opinion, it's even easier than running it on Windows, since you can use your package manager to install openjdk instead of fishing around Oracle's website to get the Java 17 graphical installer. I use Prism, which is a 3rd party launcher, and I'm loving the experience.

theshatterstone54 ,

I'll answer what I know:

Yes, you can run Minecraft on Linux. There are both official and unofficial, paid and free versions.

For Java Edition, there's an official launcher.

For Bedrock, there's an unofficial bedrock launcher that uses a Google Play account with a Minecraft License.

For Java for free, there are cracked launchers that download as jar files and work great.

For Bedrock for free, I just wouldn't bother. I'm big into piracy, and even I just gave up and bought a license from Google Play Store. If you want to give it a shot, you can find a launcher that takes x86 apks, but it's near impossible to find x86 apks that work, and the only ones I found were from super old versions, like pre-1.16.

dependencyinjection OP ,

Thanks. I already own Java Edition and someone else said you can get a third party launcher too which is cool.

unmarketableplushie ,
@unmarketableplushie@pawb.social avatar

Prism Launcher is easily the best third-party launcher, hands down. It's really useful and intuitive, with instances (basically it lets you make seperate game installs for different modpacks or versions or whatever) and lets you easily install any mod, modloader, modpack, resourcepack, or shaderpack from all the major platforms (CurseForge, Modrinth, FTB, Technic, etc.)

pumpkinseedoil ,

I prefer MultiMC as it does the same while being extremely lightweight. Or does prism have any special features that multimc doesn't have?

unmarketableplushie ,
@unmarketableplushie@pawb.social avatar

Well, Prism is forked from PolyMC, which is forked from MultiMC. Prism lets you download directly from Curse and FTB, while MultiMC doesn't.

pumpkinseedoil ,

Ty

Yes, multimc only has a repository of finished modpacks you can download.

SatyrSack ,

We hang out at !framework

dependencyinjection OP ,

Awesome. Thanks.

LodeMike ,

can I run Minecraft on Linux?

You're a software developer you answer that.

As for everything else, yes it's worth it. Upgrading isn't as easy as a desktop, but it's much easier than other laptops.

dependencyinjection OP ,

Just because you’re a software developer doesn’t mean you know how everything in software is.

I was more asking for the performance on Linux.

Yes, I imagine it more fiddly than upgrading a desktop. I’ve never really been in to buying laptops as they don’t have good upgrade options. I did have an M1 MacBook Pro and that was amazing, but they hold their value so well and I got it almost have price on discount it was a no brainier to sell it after a year for about the same I got it for.

LodeMike ,

The performance depends on how powerful the laptop is. Get an AMD model.

pumpkinseedoil ,

Is the Intel + Nvidia performance on Linux worse than on windows?

LodeMike ,

Maybe. For most things Nvidia works fine I think. Its just proprietary, and they come with arbitrary restrictions. Nouveau is an open source solution probably bad with games. I use AMD + Lutris (Linux game organizer) and its great. The only games that don't work well are almost all AAA games.

pumpkinseedoil ,

Which kind of restrictions?

Switching to AMD isn't an option, I don't want to spend money to switch to Linux.

LodeMike ,

You're limited to 2 video transcoded as an example.

dtrain ,

You're a software developer you answer that.

lol. What a shit take.

TechNerdWizard42 ,

I love the idea of Framework and I buy laptops that do what they do. But from MegaVendors™

For example my Dell has socketed RAM, now with 128GB in it. It has a socketed CPU and GPU "card" with a mobile Xeon and Quadro rtx 5000. 5 M2 drives inside and a 2.5in area. Battery is pluggable and changeable. The trackpad and keyboard are held in place by a few screws and ribbon cables like everything else. With a small Phillips screwdriver I can replace anything. WiFi card is socketed. Antennas are SMA connectors. I've replaced the shell even after a security inspection dropped and damaged the metal enclosure...

I buy it because I can upgrade it within limits as long as the upgraded parts play nice with the main board. A framework promises to do the same except allow a mainboard upgrade. But at that point you're probably buying everything. How many times, going back to desktop days, have you upgraded the entire system's motherboard and not the CPU, GPU, RAM, etc..

And at that point you're really only reusing the shell and screen and battery. The stuff you interact with everyday that will deteriorate or get dirty. And battery has a finite lifespan. Makes sense to upgrade the package when those need upgrading.

I view the framework as a great solution for a picky system user. It's not for upgrading. It's for customizing while you have that system. Allowing the maker of 2 or 3 SKUs to sell 1000 different laptops. Versus a Dell that sells 1000 different SKUs doing that internally and some of them allow you to do it externally like mine.

I wish them the best and I may buy one next time I need a beefy laptop. But their current specs don't come close to matching what I can do. And their parts don't work for my use like physical 3 button trackpad for example. When they do, awesome. But then, why not just go with the Dell? Who will send a guy to me anywhere in the world for free to fix or swap hardware... ANYWHERE. And no it's not a corporate purchase, I own it personally and the warranty is standard.

I may buy one to support them once their margins go up and the demand cools. But until then, unfortunately it doesn't seem to solve an actual consumer problem. It solves a corporate SKU problem that fixes itself as you become a big company.

SuspiciousPumpkin421 ,

As a heads up, you can swap the mother board in a Framework. It is expensive for the newer higher end ones, but it is an option.

https://frame.work/marketplace/mainboards

TechNerdWizard42 ,

Yes I know. My point is that's the ONLY benefit over a big brand that is socketed and upgradeable already. And having bought hardware capable of that for 20 years+, I've NEVER done it. Anytime I'm ready to upgrade the CPU or GPU, I generally upgrade both and the motherboard minimally. And for a laptop that is everything. The drives are standardized and socketed. The only thing you keep is the enclosure, screen, and battery. Battery dies with age. Screens die with age. All 3 are cheap and I don't think worth keeping at the expense of just buying a new one when the upgrade comes.

And I love upgrading my desktops and laptops. Just in the real world of doing it, usually components are replaced generationally at the same time.

Cort ,

I think the GPU being separately upgradable on the 16" pokes a tiny hole in your argument. But I generally agree, there's not too much that is saved or retained when upgrading. But for some people it's worth it, if they're reusing the ram, SSD, Wi-Fi card in addition to the parts you mention, AND they're not too rough on the case, screen, and keyboard/trackpad.

TechNerdWizard42 ,

The GPU on my laptop is also upgradeable. And when I want to upgrade it, it'll be time for a new CPU too.

As it is now, very few GPUs in a laptop that can pull almost 200W and have 16GB of RAM. Mine is slower than the newest generations for speed but its quicker for long processing and large memory. When a 24GB GPU based on the 5x architecture comes out, I'll be ready with a new CPU too.

pixel ,
@pixel@pawb.social avatar

Typing this from an 11th gen intel framework right now --

I've upgraded a few things (namely the CNC shell, the hinges, and the speaker) and it's pretty painless. I have some experience repairing electronics though -- but not a ton -- and it's been generally pleasant. I had some issues with my batch that required more work than I think it probably should have, including an RMA at one point, but that was a few years ago and it seems most of the problems have been ironed out. You can swap out any parts you want and the compatability has been really good, both for hardware and software. You can upgrade any model with any of their components, it's a whole ecosystem, so buy a config that's accessible to you and upgrade it then. Everything you asked about being able to do you should be able to do no problem, there's nothing unique to the framework computers that would stop that from being the case. If gaming is your usecase though, get an AMD machine (or get one of the new 16 inch notebooks, I have a 13 inch one which doesn't have the space for a dedicated graphics card, so gaming performance has taken a hit accordingly). Hopefully that helps!

dependencyinjection OP ,

Thanks for the reply.

To clarify you’re saying an AMD 13 would be good for gaming or any 16?

randombullet ,

I got an Intel 12th Gen laptop but wanted an AMD 7040 gen CPU. I was going to live overseas for a while so shipping laptops via air is questionable.

So I bought the 12th gen and then a year later upgraded the main board. No issues other than VeraCrypt being annoyed.

dependencyinjection OP ,

Thanks.

Really loving all the comments on how it is very upgradable.

randombullet ,

You can upgrade literally everything on it.

They just released a new high refresh rate screen for the 13 inch. I'm seeing if it's worth buying.

Wonder if the old display can be used as a portable monitor? I would assume so.

dependencyinjection OP ,

I could be mistaken, but I’ve used old screens from laptops before. You just need to buy an LCD (or whatever display type) controller board.

randombullet ,

I may have missed it, but as of now, framework doesn't offer the controller board by itself just yet.

Knowing them, it's probably not too far away.

dependencyinjection OP ,

So you can just find these on eBay or something. I would say Amazon but fuck those guys.

You just need to check the model number for the display, then search for a board that is compatible with that.

This YouTube video should help you udnerstand

randombullet ,

I'm very very lazy. Id rather have the OEM supply their own model than to get a 3rd party.

Then again I'm one of those heathens who pay for OEM camera batteries rather than wasabi power (which are amazing in their own right)

dependencyinjection OP ,

To each their own.

I like the tinkering and learning how to do things outside of OEM, even if they are amazing.

Kuvwert ,

I've got a 13 at home and a brand new 16(?) At work. On the 13 I've replaced the hinge and the mouse trackpad. It's been great and it's running windows 11. The swappable ports are a GD GAMECHANGER I keep a set in my backpack and I can't count how many times a swap has saved the day.

The 16 at work is way nice, and I love the custom keypad. I installed Debian on it and I struggled a bit at first getting drivers installed... but with the help of the Debian wiki and llama3 I got it sorted. I haven't tried installing Minecraft just yet but I'm confident it would work as I've used Minecraft on Ubuntu before and it was fine.

I believe you can replace anything that's not the mainboard/cpu on the 13. I believe the GPU on the 16 is upgradable which will be nice for gaming.

The only critiques I had about owning the 13 for so long is that there were lots of weird firmware glitches that have been solved over time and it's become a very reliable, usable laptop.

dependencyinjection OP ,

Thanks for the reply.

I think I would het a 16 as they’re the ones you can have a GPU if I understand correctly.

GbyBE ,

The 16 inch model can have a GPU module installed indeed, which makes it slightly longer and heavier of course. Framework plans on releasing newer GPUs in the future, but can't guarantee it, as it also depends on the GPU manufacturers.

Let's hope they will be able to also provide GPU updates, which would truly make it fully upgradeable machine.

black0ut ,
@black0ut@pawb.social avatar

I don't know about the framework laptop, but about the Minecraft question:

Yes, you can absolutely run Minecraft on Linux. It runs on top of Java, so it doesn't really see the difference between the 2 OS. In fact, I've found that Minecraft runs faster for me on Linux than on Windows. The only thing that might not work is the official launcher, but that can be easily replaced (with the added benefit of improved functionality). I can recommend Prism Launcher, but really anything works.

About Bedrock, that's a different story. Microsoft revamped the PC port of Bedrock, and now calls it "Minecraft for Windows". It's fully compiled, and it won't run natively on Linux. However, I still believe it can be made to work with some Wine trickery.

dependencyinjection OP ,

Thanks for focusing on the Minecraft aspect.

I do play Java so that’s a win and I’m excited to start playing again once I save up to make the purchase.

HEXN3T ,
@HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I saw a video demonstrating specifically the Switch version of Minecraft performing better while emulated on a Steam Deck. Actually hilarious.

GbyBE ,

The Framework laptops can be easily upgraded and/or repaired by just about anybody who can watch a YouTube video. It is indeed possible to buy a base model and then upgrade it later.

Keep in mind however that you can't just replace the CPU, but you have to replace the whole mainboard. Other components can be swapped at will, like RAM, SSD, Display, camera and microphone module, hinges, ...
Then of course there are the modules that you can easily swap without even opening the laptop, and can give you different ports, card readers, storage or custom modules (diy projects for example).

The build quality is quite solid on my FW13, the keyboard is decent and the trackpad is quite good. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one if the need arises...

dependencyinjection OP ,

Thanks for the reply.

My decision has been made after this post. It will be my next laptop.

GbyBE ,

You're welcome!

I'm pretty certain you won't regret it!

stealth_cookies ,

I have a first Gen core i5 Framework 13. I've upgraded a couple components that weren't so great on those units (hinge and speakers) and the upgrades were easy. Otherwise I've been pretty happy with it and haven't felt a need to upgrade the mainboard yet

dependencyinjection OP ,

So you really can upgrade many parts. I never would have imagined hinges would be upgradable.

stealth_cookies ,

Yup, they took feedback from customers and have provided modified components for customers that want to purchase them. Speakers, hinges, screens, stiffer chassis. All able to be replaced with the included screwdriver and guides online.

AVincentInSpace ,

Just got my Framework in the mail today. I'll report back soon and let you know how it is!

dependencyinjection OP ,

I am excited for you. Hope you have a great day with your new toy.

PerogiBoi ,
@PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca avatar

I’ve got an AMD Framework 13. I love it. I don’t like how most linux distros don’t upscale well to its hidpi screen but as long as you stick with x11 everything is clear and sharp. I don’t like how the usb c modules are so flush that it’s impossible for me to pull them out. Not that I have any need for it but maybe one day…

dependencyinjection OP ,

Thanks for the reply.

It’s great to see that every comment here is positive, on the whole.

featured ,

I have a framework 13. Bought it with 12th gen intel mainboard, upgraded it to AMD when that came out. Also upgraded the battery, RAM, and soon the screen when the 120hz one ships. It’s super easy to get into, just five screws and then pop the trackpad/keyboard cable off. I honestly love it.

Framework has fantastic support for windows and Linux. There used to be some minor fixes needed on certain models but they’ve since resolved them and my experience on Fedora and Arch have been plug and play. On windows they have a driver install script that installs everything in one go, that’s nice too. And yes Minecraft does run on Linux, at least the Java version does. Idk about bedrock though

dependencyinjection OP ,

Thanks for the reply. It will be my next purchase.

Is it better to go AMD in my use case then?

featured ,

You’ll have just as good of an experience on either Intel or AMD. Framework is releasing a new generation of intel models in August so if you want the most cutting edge model and can wait those are a good bet. But personally I’m very happy with my current gen AMD model’s performance and efficiency so I’ll be waiting a while before another upgrade. There really aren’t any major downsides for any of the current options though, just personal preference.

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