Does anybody else feel guilty being suspicious of anybody in a black hoodie with the hood up?

Specifically because I live in a hot climate, I'm always fighting the feeling of being suspicious of anybody I pass in the streets with a hoodie pulled up. I feel guilty because of racial profiling associated with hoodies, but gotta protect myself and my family, especially because in many cases the perpetrators of assault and murder seen in media are somebody with a hood and/or mask on.

czech ,

I wear a hoodie most of the time. I don't mind if you feel suspicious of me; one reason I have a hood up is because I don't want to engage with random people. Sounds like you would go out of your way to avoid me so mission accomplished.

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

that's a great point!

mdhughes ,
@mdhughes@lemmy.ml avatar

Of course not. I am the guy in long coat, hoodie or toque, big black boots, and face mask.

Crime rates have dropped massively, you're being driven into a panic by pro-police, racist media manipulation.

radroot ,

/thread

intensely_human ,

Also by walking and breathing fast. I’ve been able to reduce my own anxiety quite a bit by forcing myself to walk and breathe more slowly.

We have a cultural acceleration of both of these body rhythms, and it’s part of the feedback loop that’s degrading our mental health.

The best part is, despite being difficult it is very possible to take control of these things. It improves our own mental health, gives other people’s brains more time to evaluate us before having to make a fight/chill decision. And when our own anxiety levels decrease, our voices get less hostile.

We’re all in this big soup of feelings together, and the whole soup is getting more anxious.

In my own experience working to slow myself down, it really takes a lot of attention and effort to alter these things that mostly run unconsciously, but the payoff is almost immediate.

I remember the first day I decided to walk slowly it was so fucking hard. I had to imagine pushing backward in my feet. It actually kind of hurt in a weird abstract way. But within ten or twenty minutes of that, muscles were relaxing around my chest and neck. Another fifteen minutes later, and I was admiring the beauty of everything around me, actually looking up for the first time in years and seeing buildings and trees I’d never noticed before.

Breathing slow, and walking slow. You can practice them one at a time, or combine them.

The more time spent applying attention and effort, the more effect. And the effects are incredible.

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

crime rates going down doesn't mean it's not still happening way more than it should. not sure where you live, but i'm in a big city and you definitely shouldn't walk around thinking everything is peachy all the time.

you can be vigilant with your own safety without being pro-police. the reality is that some criminals in the streets have a common uniform that non-criminals commonly wear.

if i'm walking behind a woman by herself on an empty street, i'm gonna cross the street because i understand that they're concerned for their safety, and i know women appreciate that.

since crime has dropped, should women not be concerned for their safety? are they being manipulated by sexist media and driven into a panic if they are?

octopus_ink ,

Wow you really flipped that around, and even ended with a strawman. How are we talking about women and not hoodies?

You shouldn't feel bad for being suspicious of someone in a hoodie, but you should realize you are buying into pro-police, racist media manipulation exactly as the other person said.

When you can find statistics showing crimes by people in hoodies are as common a problem as rape and sexual assault against women, then we can talk.

the reality is that some criminals in the streets have a common uniform that non-criminals commonly wear.

Wait until you hear how many criminals wear jeans.

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/0ef6f00b-96d1-4699-99d5-1a11fa890dd6.jpeg

https://xtown.la/2019/07/30/suspect-wore-a-hoodie/

I’m equally suspicious about sunglasses and dark caps, but there’s no guilt there because we haven’t historically racially profiled people wearing that.

octopus_ink ,

When you can find statistics showing crimes by people in hoodies are as common a problem as rape and sexual assault against women, then we can talk.

I don't think that pie chart shows that. Not percentages. Numbers of crimes.

Because if the stipulation is that it's just as reasonable for you to worry about hoodies as for a woman to worry about a strange man behind her (which is the only way the prior comment would have been relevant) I continue to hard disagree.

I’m equally suspicious about sunglasses and dark caps, but there’s no guilt there because we haven’t historically racially profiled people wearing that.

So then, you are already acknowledging that your reaction is from pro-police racist tropes. Where is the argument between you and I?

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

let's take it all the way back. you said i shouldn't be concerned because crime rates are down. i say that doesn't mean i shouldn't be concerned. it's all relative. i think it's still too high where i'm from and there are a number of "uniforms" that criminals wear, including hoodies. i am conflicted about being suspicious about hoodies because of racial profiling. i am not concerned about being suspicious of a person in a trench coat because there is no racist past.

we each have our own tolerance for risk regarding our safety, and not sure if you're a parent, but that tolerance for risk goes way down when you are protecting loved ones. you have a fair point about crime rates going down, but it's dangerous to lower your guard because rates have gone down a little.

octopus_ink ,

you said i shouldn’t be concerned because crime rates are down.

I don't think I said this.

Overall my point is just - we all have our biases. If you feel guilty about being suspicious about folks in a black hoodie, and if bias against hoodies is likely to be of racist origin, your guilt is some portion of you being aware of that. If you weren't, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

It's OK to admit that, even if only to yourself. I don't think you should feel guilty about it. But I do think you should acknowledge what's contributing to that bias. We all have that in some way or another, and I don't think you can move past it while denying it's there.

venusaur OP , (edited )
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

I get what you’re saying, but in this case it’s the opposite. I’ll lay it out again.

There are multiple articles of clothing that are suspicious to me regardless of who is wearing them and how police treat people wearing them.

Hoodies are included amongst them.

Due to racial profiling of POC’s wearing hoodies, I feel guilty being suspicious of people in hoodies.

I’m also suspicious of people in trench coats, but we don’t racially profile people in trench coats like we do with people in hoodies, so I don’t feel guilty about it.

It could be anybody in a dark hoodie with the hood up that makes me suspicious, but if they’re a POC, I feel guilty because of police racially profiling people wearing them.

Does that make sense?

octopus_ink ,

Does that make sense?

It does, and honestly I probably belabored this discussion far beyond what I had any reason to. Thanks for staying patient.

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

Nah all good. Appreciate the conversation. The media is never truly portraying the reality of our society, so important to use your own judgment.

octopus_ink ,

So I looked at your link.

The article seems to be about the fact that it's racially charged, and that people reporting it may be doing so out of racism

But in the year following Martin’s death, **the number of crimes reported with “Suspect wore hood/hoodie” skyrocketed. In 2013, there were 1,243 reports, a 92% increase from 2012. **

While this was the largest jump since 2010 (when the data became publicly available), the data show the number of suspects being labeled as wearing hoods or hoodies rising each year.

This year, in the first six months, there were 2,510 crimes with “Suspect wore hood/hoodie,” a 29.5% increase from the first six months of 2018, which had 1,938 reported crimes.

How do you read the first quoted bit, then uncritically present the rest of the numbers as being in support of your suspicion??

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

You missed my point that despite caps/hats being the next largest attire being reported, I don’t feel guilty being suspicious of it. I feel guilty about being suspicious of hoodies because I’m aware of racism. I am not suspicious of hoodies because of racism.

You’re incorrectly assuming I’m only suspicious of people in hoodies.

lukecooperatus ,

Just pointing out how ironic it is that your response to someone informing you that you are being manipulated by police propaganda is to... go find stats sourced from the police to argue that you feel justified agreeing with the police propaganda.

🤔

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

That’s actually not what happened. I brought up stats that showed that police also report suspects in caps/hats, but I don’t feel guilty about that.

Omega_Haxors ,

They're lying about crime rates so that they can pump more money into the police for when the people revolt.

As a mastodon thread amazingly put it: The police are their climate plan. The police are their housing plan. The police are their food plan. Capitalists don't want to fix the problem, they want to silence anyone who brings it up and kill anyone who takes direct action.

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

I think you can be aware or possibly even "wary" if you see that, but I think it is a little absurd to let that become actual worry or suspicion.

Just be aware of your surroundings. Clock the person in a hoodie, make a mental note of it, and continue on your way. I feel like this is "how to live in a modern city 101." If you get this thrown by seeing someone in a hoodie, then maybe you're too anxious to be around that many people

i_stole_ur_taco ,

I always think of that scene from Hot Fuzz where they’re talking about why someone wore a hat low on their face.

“Because he’s fuck ugly?”

“Or he has something to hide.”

Both can exist and I try to keep that in mind. Someone wearing something covering their identity either is cold or doesn’t want to engage with people. If the latter, there’s a slim chance they pose a threat, or they have their own reasons that are no concern of mine.

I note these people more than if they weren’t covered, but I don’t really change my behaviours in normal situations.

You’re not doing anything wrong. A hoodie is a yellow flag without more information. Keep doing what you’re doing.

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

haha that's fair. totally understand wanting to cover up, but especially where I live and during this warm time of year, it's suspicious. i think that's a good way to describe my feelings. it's a yellow flag. i'm not reaching in my pocket for a knife, but i'm on guard.

SnotFlickerman , (edited )
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I have cancer and I still wear a face mask everywhere due to a compromised immune system.

I also get very cold with my disease/medications. My blood circulation isn't as good now. I can be chilled when its 77 in a room without a sweatshirt. My hoodies aren't black but they are dark blues and greens.

Further, I have serious skin issues and always have that lead me to keep my hair always cropped very, very short. Meaning when I am chilled like that, I often have the hood up.

I am not here to make judgment on your position but rather just a reminder of valid reasons things like this might happen that don't involve others meaning you bodily harm.

I am a big guy, and sometimes it feels a little tiring to have the default be everyone is scared of me despite my inability to defend myself before I had cancer. I don't own guns or knives and my backpack is either full of groceries or PC maintenance equipment.

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

sorry about your health. i wish the best for you.

not nearly the same at all, but sometimes if i think i'm making somebody nervous (e.g. it's late at night and i'm walking behind them) i'll do this sort of public theatre where i'll start humming and walking with a bounce in my step or something like that so they know where i'm at and to kind of give off a friendly vibe. that or i cross the street if i can.

I can imagine it's exhausting if people are suspicious of you all the time. the people wearing the clothes to the commit crimes mess it up for people on both sides. ski masks for example haha. if you're wearing a ski mask in public and it's not freezing outside, or even if it is, that's so sus.

ada Mod ,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

So, I was given some advice for situations like this that changed my life.

The first thing that comes to mind in these moments isn't what matters. It's what a life time of indoctrinated racism/classism/sexism etc looks like. The thing that comes to mind here isn't necessarily what you think, it's what you've been taught to think,

What matters is what you do next, after the thought has popped in to your mind.

I was raised in a very racist environment, and I struggled with feeling guilt every time some racist thought I'd been trained with popped in to my head, because that's not the person I want to be. Reframing it like this allowed me to stop getting hung up on the guilt part, and work on the part that actually means something

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

Well what I do next is keep them in my line of sight and avoid them. I’m not suspicious of their race, I’m suspicious of their clothes. If they happen to be a POC though, there is more guilt involved.

ada Mod ,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It’s what a life time of indoctrinated racism/classism/sexism etc looks

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not only suspicious of hoodies. I understand where you’re coming from but I’m not suspicious of somebody in a hoodie because of race. It’s because I’ve seen a lot of people committing crimes in them. I’m also suspicious of people in black caps and sunglasses, but that’s not called racism/classism/sexism because celebrities wear that all the time.

MrsDoyle ,

One time I was walking through a city centre after midnight after drinks with friends - who told me to get a taxi because it's so dangerous. I got to a pedestrianised street and there at the orher end was a group of tough-looking POC in hoodies. Uh oh. There seemed to be an argument in progress. Uh oh. I carried on though, to avoid a long detour. As I got nearer I caught the drift of the argument. "We're only telling you this because we love you, mate." Muffled sobbing. "Yeah, we worry about you! We want you to be happy!" It was teens in the midst of a full-on psychodrama, actually quite wholesome. I carried on home, berating myself for racial profiling. For a non-event it had quite a profound effect on my thinking.

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

And these are the kinds of interactions that people have in cities that terrify conservatives. Not the situation you described (although they'd be scared of that too), but the lesson you took away from it.

Just being around people that look, sound, behave, have customs, etc., different than you changes the way you view the world in fundamental ways. You may not even realize it is happening.

And most importantly, it makes everyone less afraid of one another. And this is how conservatives lose their power.

UnH1ng3d ,

You can't trust what you can't see.

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

yeah, that's definitely part of it.

Sunny ,
@Sunny@slrpnk.net avatar

I feel like most of the time, people wearing a hoodie (w the hood on), don't want to be interacted with, nor do they wish to interact with others. At least that's how I feel. No need to feel bad a out it.

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

that's a good point. if i'm avoiding them because i think they're suspicious, it's giving them the space that they want anyways.

Sir_Kevin ,
@Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

As a pale skinned ginger who will get second degree burns if I'm not careful outside I'm often covered up despite temperatures approaching 100F.

davel ,
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

What does the color of the hoodie have to do with anything? 🤨

Revan343 , (edited )

In a hot climate, a black hoodie is going to be less likely a casual outfit than a lighter coloured hoodie

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

it's just a common color in general and a common color in videos of people wearing hoodies and committing crimes. it's easier to blend in with a dark colored hoodie than a brightly colored one i suppose.

xmunk ,

I think it's fair to be nervous around people who conspicuously hide their identity. I've been mugged twice and in neither case did the person walk up to me and introduce themselves first. There's nothing wrong with giving people hiding their features a wide berth up to crossing the street, especially late at night. People who are just wearing what's comfortable will keep on going without interactions but if someone changes course to intercept you - especially hurrying to come up behind you - it's not at all racist to react defensively, it's just rational.

People can wear what they want, I will judge them (sort of) if they are obscuring their features but I do understand there are a lot of reasons for doing so (including not wanting a negative interaction yourself). I've had busty friends that adore their hoodies because it lets them avoid unwanted attention and cat calling - but it's equally fair to be concerned that someone obscuring their identity has a malicious intent.

Just like, be informed by attire but don't pass permanent judgement - and if you get mugged because you're helping someone that looks like they're in distress (points to self) it's okay - even if it fucking sucks you made the right decision.

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

aw man. sorry to hear what happened to you. that's fucked up on multiple levels because it makes people less likely to want to help a stranger out in the future.

frauddogg ,
@frauddogg@lemmygrad.ml avatar

This whole thread is just one great big self-flagellatory self-report session innit

Akasazh ,
@Akasazh@feddit.nl avatar

No kink shaming plz

shinigamiookamiryuu ,

Where I live, people of all degrees of peace come in all colors of hoodies and hood positions. More often than not, the people here who give a hard time just present themselves like everyone else. If I saw someone with a black hoodie with the hood up, I'd be more worried about them being Death.

Potatos_are_not_friends ,

I dunno about that. If I saw a man with a white hood that completely covers his face with little eyeholes, I'm out. Because chances are, that dude has a flaming cross somewhere.

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

Hah! What you do if you see Death coming your way?

shinigamiookamiryuu ,

I'd run and hope Puss in Boots is nearby.

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

Haha that’s a very specific character. Am I missing something?

shinigamiookamiryuu ,

In the new Puss in Boots movie, the plot centers around him literally escaping Death because he realized before the movie's events that he used up all his other eight lives. So it's currently a meme that Death is envisioned in that context.

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

Ah haha nice. Thanks for the context.

CraigOhMyEggo ,

What colour hoodies are you known to wear?

shinigamiookamiryuu ,

Grey, white, and red, though I don't prefer them, in fact the grey one is usually to make up a third layer due to it being normal here to wear four layers (bra/underwear, clothes/uniform, grey hoodie, then jacket) and the red which I wear right now goes with my uniform.

CraigOhMyEggo ,

So you look like Miyuri? Not that your avatar helps.

shinigamiookamiryuu ,

Give-or-take colorful cosmetics.

Avatar

CraigOhMyEggo ,

Oh, wow, I was only kidding. Good thing that in real life looking like Miyuri doesn't land you in Miyuri-esque situations.

shinigamiookamiryuu ,

Now I feel like you're just teasing me with reconstructions of things I've gone through.

CraigOhMyEggo ,

When looking up your name on here, were the images/videos/audio you posted that are erased via error selfies/self-recordings too? An interesting question when you've said before you have the world record for having signed up for the most websites, if you know what I mean.

shinigamiookamiryuu ,

Media having the kind of identity crisis to go against functionality is something that tends to happen locally, so while your hunch is correct, I'll say rely on exporting yourself to any aforementioned other places (look up my name for more) for anything like what you've seen of identically clad/headed me just now.

HobbitFoot ,

So I was at a convention that happened to be next to a horror convention. Someone from the horror convention decided to come to our convention in a pastel overalls outfit with bunny mask and lavender wig. Some of us were afraid of joining his basement convention afterparty.

I guess this is kind of how you were feeling.

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

haha yeah in that context, the overalls, bunny mask and wig were sus

southsamurai ,
@southsamurai@sh.itjust.works avatar

Eh, depends on circumstances.

Then again my PTSD keeps my head on swivel all the time, so I'm suspicious of five year olds that move too fast. Someone in a hoodie in warm weather? Nah, no guilt about scanning them at all

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

haha you're like my dog. kids move too erratically sometimes for him.

DaGeek247 , (edited )
@DaGeek247@fedia.io avatar

You're unintentionally hilarious. This is great.

venusaur OP ,
@venusaur@lemmy.world avatar

Is it cuz my dog was never suicide bombed?

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