NightAuthor ,

When driving:
Don’t be nice, be predictable.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

This is the way.

tables ,

You can be nice, just make sure you think about what you're actually doing before doing it.

Letting a car go in front in the situation above: you're probably causing an accident.

Letting a car go in heavy traffic when there's one lane each way and everyone's stopped already anyway: won't cost you much time and you've allowed that person to move on with their life instead of being permanently stuck at an intersection he's never going to be able to get out of unless someone yields.

I live close to a few intersections where if no one is nice and yields, it's impossible to join unless you barge your way in and hope people stop. But to be fair, these aren't designed like death traps like the one above.

llii ,

think about what you’re actually doing before doing it.

That's too much thinking for most people.

deweydecibel ,

That goes for the driver that's being waived through, too.

roude ,

Letting a car go in front in the situation above: you're probably causing an accident.

I disagree. In this situation, you are letting the left turning car move to the middle lane of this five lane road. From there, they can make a better decision of when to go. You aren’t causing an accident by letting them go TO THE MIDDLE LANE. From that point on, it is their ability to merge that may cause an accident. But they are supposed to stop in the middle lane and check that they can merge BEFORE they merge.

meowMix2525 ,

There is no middle lane here wtf are you talking about

roude ,

Edit: Woof, sorry my phone mangled my comment into a hot mess. Fixed it and re-commented here.

You are supposed to be in the middle near that rounded portion just above the time-traveling assassin.

These…

Turning Left on a Straightaway: Most main roads have median lanes into which you can move your vehicle if you need to turn left off of a straightaway. Move into the median, and yield the right of way to the oncoming traffic. Once there is an opening, you can complete your turn.

Turning Left onto a Straightaway with a vehicle in the median: Every once in a while, you’ll be trying to turn onto a straight away, and you’ll find someone already in the median—right where you need to be! The rule is that the vehicle in the media has the right of way. The idea is that they are in the most vulnerable position because they are literally stopped in the middle of the road. Let them complete their turn before you move to the median.

… from this.

meowMix2525 ,

That is not what that excerpt is talking about, that is talking about a road with a middle turn lane.

The road pictured here has a median which cannot be driven over, generally there's a kerb and it's usually just grass on top. The center part is not for stopping in, it is only for driving through. You should not proceed unless you have a clear view of traffic from where that car is sitting on the left. In some cases there will be a white line to stop there, and in that case that is okay, but that is not what is pictured here.

roude , (edited )

What are YOU talking about? The median can 100% be driven over (circled in red below), and the center part (again, circled in red) is entirely intended to stop in prior to merging.

The entire middle area is the median, which also contains protected left hand turns, a raised section, and what I assume is a painted median (maybe, maybe not, but again the circled portion). I am talking about stopping here, in the circled portion, prior to merging. You are supposed to stop there, assuming you aren’t towing or driving a longer-than-average vehicle, if you do not have visibility into the lane you are merging into.

The quoted text I have above specifically mentions a left hand turn onto a straightway WITH ANOTHER VEHICLE IN THE MEDIAN, so clearly they mean a median that allows driving through.

Picture.

Edit: The predictable thing to do here, turning left with low visibility into the lane you are merging into due to obscuring traffic, is to yield to traffic coming from your left until you have: no traffic coming from the right, or someone from the right waves you through. You then stop in the middle, circled red portion until it is safe to complete your turn. You don’t just Hail Mary blindly drive from where you were initially stopped into the desired lane. That is how you cause an accident.

meowMix2525 ,

I think you are entirely missing the point of this comic and misunderstanding the rules of the pictured intersection. There's a reason these were outlawed in my state (michigan). They are a dumb way to direct traffic, the "stopping room" you've circled is not meant for stopping in, or else there would be far more space there, likely an entire lane of room. I'm not suggesting making blind turns. You are not supposed to proceed without visibility or merging room, hence why the stopped line of cars in the middle lane have the right-of-way as they are blocking your view of that and possibly the traffic behind them, which the person at the front of the line has almost no way of knowing. You stop in the middle then you are still blocking them for as long as it takes to merge into traffic now that you've got yourself in this situation.

It just does not make sense to do it that way. If you can't make the turn left then you turn right and find somewhere to turn around, which is how our roads are designed from the jump here in michigan.

Anyways, this is a really stupid argument and I'm really not interested in continuing it.

roude ,

Alright, bow out if you must. But keep in mind here you chose to pedantically argue there is no middle lane. You picked this fight, when my original argument to the first commenter I responded to was that allowing someone to go when you are in the middle lane of the straightaway (a.k.a the time-traveling assassin) is not "causing an accident". So agreed it is stupid, but it isn’t like I called you out first for something silly.

papalonian ,

Alright, bow out if you must.

Cringe, and implies you're trying to win an argument rather than have a conversation.

Also, I'm sorry, but you're totally wrong. I know what kind of intersection you're talking about, this definitely is not it. Maybe it's a regional thing, but XKCD is an American webcomic, these intersections are all over the place and you definitely are not supposed to stop in them.

Intersection

This is the kind of intersection you're talking about. You'll notice that the center area where the car turns is much longer than the area in the original post, in addition to having clear lane indications.

If someone were to stop in the intersection in the OP, they would have to be stopped at an awkward angle not parallel to either lane, and if someone were to follow them into the intersection, the second person would have nowhere to go.

Long story short, there's two different kinds of intersections being discussed here, regardless of whether or not you acknowledge it or which one you believe is being depicted. One of them makes the comic make sense, while the other does not. Which one do you think the artist intended to draw?

roude , (edited )

Cringe? Okay, thanks. So this was a discussion until meowMix came in with a "there is no middle lane what the f* are you talking about". Charged language, incorrect statement, and a nitpick nonetheless.

Now you are here arguing for meowMix, but again, you are arguing something counter to most US states. You are generally allowed to turn into an intersection as long as you are not impeding traffic turning left in that same intersection. I am talking about intersections without lights, not controlled intersections. Those are different, and not applicable here.

In this case, there is clearly enough room for a reasonable sized car to be in the intersection assuming they yielded for traffic from the left AND were waved into the intersection by another left turning car on the straightaway (the time traveling assassin), so traffic from the right. Left and right, basically the general rule that applies to all left turning uncontrolled intersection traffic questions. But that waving though only is to the lane of the car waving you through, closest to your side of the street. No time traveling assassin can give you right of way to lanes to their right, a.k.a the lane with the 45 mph car.

That’s the premise of this joke, that people cannot give you right of way to SOMEONE ELSE’S LANE. In case everything above is still unclear, there is a wiki for this exact joke. Because this has been debated countless times before. Because everything from xkcd has. Because this is the internet, where everything is debated to death.

Now I have no idea where this supposed intersection is. Could be Pennsylvania where the artist is from, or Virginia where they went to college. Or even Massachusetts where they currently reside. Or it could be in any number of states that allow this exact behavior I am talking about. Tough to say without knowing directly from the author where this is from.

The example you provided is another intersection type, and different than the joke. The middle section of the joke is what appears to be a double wide (wide as two lanes) section, so there is definitely enough room for a standard sized car. Angle of the intersection plays no part in whether it is a valid turning place, awkward or not. There are countless examples of intersections that aren’t perfectly perpendicular, should ALL of these awkward left turn merges be forbidden because you aren’t in a spot exactly parallel to the lane you are merging into? No.

Who cares about the second person? You shouldn’t be taking them into consideration for this kind of turn. They are supposed to turn when they have enough space. Following you blindly into an intersection is a poor decision on their part, and of course not your responsibility.

Long story not short! You’re talking about a different intersection, not even the one from the joke. You are right there are different kinds of intersections, but any of them with: an intersection, two left turning drivers, a two way straightaway, a middle section with a left turning lane (a.k.a. a middle lane, or a center left lane, or a median with a raised section and left turning lane, …), and enough space for a non-straightaway left turning car to move into the intersection without impeding traffic from either direction of the straightaway would have worked for this joke.

Because the joke wasn’t there isn’t enough space in the intersection. It was that NO DRIVER CAN GIVE YOU RIGHT OF WAY TO SOMEONE ELSE’S LANE.

You’re potentially right that I enjoy a debate, most people on the internet do. That’s why I am here. But I’ll be damned if sit on the sidelines while some cat food user makes an incorrect nitpick, or you yourself argue for driving behavior that is counter to most states’ DMV rules.

deweydecibel ,

I was gonna lose my mind reading some of these comments. Thank you for being sensible.

The majority of cases where one could politely let someone through are not going to be on highways like this.

It's also ridiculous to assume that the driver that you're letting through would just stop checking for oncoming traffic because you waved them through.

tables ,

Driving is one of those things where we're supposed to be human - make choices, act sensibly, think about what we're doing and adapt to others around us. But often people assume it's something entirely deterministic - "if the light is green I'm going to launch forward even if there's still traffic moving past me and I'm going to get hit or hit someone, because green means I HAVE to go".

Being polite to others, asides from the nicety of it, is often more positive to everyone on the road than going "I have the right of way so I won't let anyone in" and allows traffic as a whole to move with less issues. But some people go way too hard on the mentality that every road user other than them is stupid and stop acting like humans because they assume others won't be able to cope. Which usually complicates traffic for everyone.

There's a roundabout in my daily commute in which at the end of the afternoon 80% of drivers are coming from and going to the same direction and there's usually heavy traffic in that specific direction that blocks the roundabout. Often, drivers who are approaching the roundabout to go to a different direction will signal their intention, and users already inside the roundabout will give way - even if they technically have the right of way and don't have to - because those users aren't going their direction and will only increase the number of cars stuck if they're not allowed through. Roundabout users being polite effectively makes traffic as a whole go more smoothly and everyone benefits. Sometimes someone inside the roundabout will be an ass and not let people through - and the result is always that everyone is stuck for more time because there are now cars inside the roundabout which could've already vacated it which are stuck behind someone who could easily let them through.

Mac ,

you dont have two lane roads in your town? i sure do and this is a real issue. the driver pulling into traffic cannot see the car coming along at higher speed.

Mac ,

you dont have two lane roads in your town? i sure do and this is a real issue. the driver pulling into traffic cannot see the car coming along at higher speed.

TrickDacy ,

Not mutually exclusive

Empricorn , (edited )

Yeah, this had fucking better be the top comment!

HeapOfDogs ,

i always called this the "wave of death"

IWantToFuckSpez ,

Roundabouts ftw. Best traffic invention to beat time traveling assassins.

wander1236 ,
@wander1236@sh.itjust.works avatar

Except the ones with two lanes that can both exit or continue

princessnorah ,
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I have never seen a roundabout here in Australia that allows for these sorts of conflicting movements, that would be asinine. Are you saying there's multiple lanes that can exit or go straight such that someone in the inside lane can turn out in front of someone continuing around in the outside lane? Is this a North American thing? Of course that would result in accidents, don't build your bloody roundabouts like that!!

I drive through three lane (six lane road) roundabouts all the time and no one gets hurt. In fact I have to drive through two such roundabouts to get to the nearest freeway.

wander1236 ,
@wander1236@sh.itjust.works avatar

There are so many like this in the US. I don't understand who thought they were a good idea or why they keep getting made

nulluser , (edited )

I'm absolutely calling BS. I've never seen such a thing and wagering that you are just confused about what lanes can do what (or you're just making shit up). There are several roundabouts near me where an inside lane can turn out or go straight, but in all of those cases all lanes further out are required to turn out. The people that design traffic patterns aren't idiots, but there's no shortage of idiot drivers that can't follow even the simplest patterns.

If you want to insist, all you need to do is link to such an intersection in google maps so I can look at the aerial view. I'm honestly curious how they would paint the traffic lanes to indicate what you're describing.

4am ,
digdug ,

Even on that, a driver in the right lane must exit. If they want to continue to the left, they are required to make a lane change, in which case all lane change rules would apply.

Rai ,

I’ve got some near to me that both lanes can exit, but you must be in the inside lane to keep going round. They’re very strangely designed.

marcos ,

Imagine a roundabout where most of the traffic flows straight on only one of the streets. Things would improve a lot of you gave that street the right of way and cut a shortcut on the middle of the roundabout, wouldn't them?

(/s by the way, but a lot of transit engineers to really believe in this. Unironically.)

princessnorah ,
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

You jest, but we do kind of have something like this in Melbourne, Australia. Except the vehicles that get to cut through the middle of the roundabout are Trams. Plus while they're trundling through, everyone else has to stop and wait for them.

https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/854c2b66-98cd-4370-8d35-a71f953208b5.jpeg

marcos ,

I was not joking when I said a lot of transit engineers believe on it.

That one is one of the least bad I've seen. Try imagine it on the cross of two roads (actual high-speed roads, country-side). I've seen many of those.

princessnorah ,
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I'm bloody sorry but did you just say this is one of the least bad you've seen?? Let me give you a different view:

https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/eb2122dd-f25d-4998-a1c6-30ec1f78b15c.jpeg

https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/8b449859-dd2b-489e-a642-ad1a209d1835.jpeg

Trams traverse the traffic lanes at three points, as well as one making an immediate left turn exit. There are four traffic lanes. Royal Parade has inside lanes and service lanes.

But I also don't have to imagine that at all, those are common here too and I've never had a problem at them:

https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/e1f30e42-7dad-47a2-a780-b9dba8bab94d.jpeg

Notice how the approaching lane at the bottom left has an artificial curve added to it? It's traffic calming to help slow down cars before they get to the roundabout itself.

marcos ,

That second picture of yours is just a normal roundabout. Try making one of the roads pass directly through it. And don't change the signaling.

I've noticed that the tram line cuts the traffic in 3 points. What is the speed of that street? Anyway, the tram line is clearly signed in a way that can be noticed on the photo. And every car there is making a weird curve, nobody is speeding anyway.

princessnorah , (edited )
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

What is the speed of that street?

You'll have to be specific, all five of the roads that enter this roundabout are different, none actually continue through it. I think the maximum speed limit in the area is 60km/h though.

Edit: Also, the weird looking building in the first picture? That's the Royal Melbourne Hospital. There is A Lot going on at this roundabout. Though I guess as far as it not being "bad" it is probably the best intersection they could have built for this location. The cycle length if it were a signalised intersection would be insane.

3ntranced ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/025a3f3b-b6bc-431f-8e2d-422fc79eae55.jpeg
Right near my old house, dubbed the "Suicide Circle" for how everyone drives through it seemingly unaware of any other drivers on the road.

princessnorah ,
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I don't see any conflicting movements here. I have a roundabout almost exactly like this just around the corner. It's not complicated.

3ntranced ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d82340bf-3aae-49d7-a47a-3a6dbf591164.jpeg
It's more the amount of choke points that turn to gridlock at rush hour. That plus it's the Midwest so 85% of the population doesn't understand how they work.

princessnorah ,
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I think it's probably got more to do with the drivers. There are plenty of roundabouts like this where I am in Aus, and they get used just fine. Over here they have a far lower rate of accidents than other types of intersections. We never have 4 way stops either, we just put a roundabout there.

halloween_spookster ,

When driving don't be nice. Be predictable.

GladiusB ,
@GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

I'm taking a Smith system training and this is said constantly.

Gestrid ,

When driving, being predictable is being nice. Being nice is an accident waiting to happen.

... That sounded better in my head.

Anticorp ,

Half the people who wave you through have weird little control fetishes. They're not being polite, they're pursuing feelings of power. They're the same people driving 5 mph under the speed limit in the passing lane to "keep other people from speeding".

sebinspace ,

Well that’s certainly one of the takes of all time

Anticorp ,

I didn't just pull it out of my ass, it's a perspective I've seen espoused on this very platform, and also on Reddit.

Leviathan ,

Another thing that enrages me is people who think driving slowly is safer for whatever reason.

Getting on the highway? Let's SLOWLY merge at 60% the speed of oncoming traffic.

Changing lanes from stationary traffic into a full speed lane? I won't wait for the lane to clear, I'll just turn signal and move into the lane REAL SLOW because that's safe.

Turning right? Let's slow down to a complete stop and force traffic to a halt so I can turn right.

As a delivery truck driver I can't tell you how many people think that everyone else can just stop on a dime for them and they're being safe because they move over at a snail's Pace.

BigBananaDealer ,
@BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee avatar

fucking hate getting stuck behind some slow driver when trying to get on a highway. like fucker we are supposed to be reaching highway speed on this ramp not when we reach the highway🤬

JonEFive ,

There is an on-ramp for the highway near me that's pretty long. It's long because it's a very straight fast-moving section of highway. In other words, the on-ramp is designed to give you adequate space to get up to highway speed. The number of people who immediately merge into the first lane without getting up to speed is too damn high.

Everythingispenguins ,

I used to have a job where I drove a box truck. It was slow empty and painfully slow full. It was also speed limited to 75mph. So I would tend to hang out with the semis on the hwy. One time I was driving down the hwy and this guy in a pretty new Volvo( so the fast ones) was coming down the on ramp. I could see he was going to merge right in front of me so I slowed down to give him some space. I figured he would want to be in front of the slow box truck. As he got close to the merge he slowed down so he was even with me. I gave him a little more space to merge in front of me and slowed down again. He had plenty of room left in the on merge lane if just used the skinny pedal. Instead he waited until was almost out of room then started honking at me. I did my best to speed up my painfully slow box truck but I am sure he has to slow down to the point he was merging at 45mph as everyone was doing 75-80mph. I am sure he was cursing me too because he wasn't willing to get up to hwy speed before merging.

stalfoss ,

I was taught it was the responsibility of the car getting on the highway to match the speed of the cars on the highway. If you’re already on the highway, keep a constant speed so the people getting on can match you. So he kept having to slow down because you were also slowing down. Just like the assassin pretending to be nice in the diagram, I think you were technically in the wrong here.

Everythingispenguins ,

He never got up to hwy speed if he had he would have easily merged in front of me. I only slowed down by 5 to 10 mph.

AngryMob ,

Right, but its not your responsibility to slow down at all. Its kind of you to do so when the merging vehicle picks up on your intention, but when they don't, it makes a miscommunication like you describe.

Basically, i'd just describe it as being predictable. And bending the rules (even to be kind) is not predictable, usually.

biddy ,

I have a question on this. Let's assume everyone is a perfect driver and must have at least a 2 second following distance at all times. If there's a free flowing queue of traffic on the highway with 2-4 second gaps between, merging in is impossible without someone slowing down and letting you in. Every time I merge this situation stresses me out.

stalfoss ,

Merge into the gap, then slow down slightly to extend the space in front of you, and let the guy behind you slow down to extend the space in front of him. It’s not complicated

Leviathan ,

At 100 km/h (low-end highway spreed), or 1,666 m/minute, or 27.7 m per second, a 2 second gap leaves approximately 56.6 m (185.6 feet) between cars. With the average car length being ~4.9 m (~16 feet), even the absolute worst driver can merge in a space ten times the size of the average car, assuming they're matching highway speed.

Most people have no actual concept of how long 2 seconds actually is or how much space it would leave in reality.

biddy , (edited )

Yeah, obviously you "can" merge, but in doing so you insert yourself into the middle of a 2 second gap creating 2 × less than 1 second gaps. Like I said, in this hypothetical everyone is a perfect driver that always follows the rules, so that's not an option.

For that matter, the driver behind should see that you are about to merge into a gap that's too small and slow down to leave a space that's at least 4 seconds big.

I'd also like to point out that your attitude to driving is terrible, the size in meters of anything on a highway is irrelevant, 2 seconds is not a lot of time to react and slow down a car at 100, and that just because you "can" do something doesn't mean you should.

MajorHavoc ,

Instead he waited until was almost out of room then started honking at me.

People who haven't learned the physics of large trucks spend a surprising portion of their driving time competing for Darwin awards.

I want to will this not to be a problem anymore, but still see it all the time. I'm thankful that I've seen a lot of truckers react in surprisingly aware ways that save lives.

But every time I see it, I can't help but think that driver's luck isn't too likely to hold through too many more times making that move.

Jolteon ,

Getting into the fast moving lane from slow traffic is difficult no matter how you do it. The best way I found is to actually go slightly slower than the person in front of you to get a gap, then use that gap to accelerate.

Leviathan ,

Yeah, that's because you know how to drive. I can't tell you how many people just turn in front of a truck and expect it to slow down for them. Playing with their lives.

Anticorp ,

People are fucking stupid. People behind the wheel of a car are even more stupid.

Eyeuhnluuung ,

You go, no you go, no you go, you go, no you go

shasta ,

Yeah if this happens I'm just turning right and doing a U-turn. I would rather take 5 extra minutes to get where I'm going than play a game of polite chicken where the stakes are human lives.

JulyTheMonth ,

This road design seems also be done by someone completely insane. Who thought it was a good idea to cross two lanes without any kind of traffic regulations.

Luckily no every country has insane roads like that.

floofloof ,

This applies when you're a pedestrian waiting to cross too. There are always those drivers who think they're doing you a favor by stopping one of the lanes of traffic so you can walk out into the other. They smile and wave and look baffled when you don't take the bait.

ramirezmike ,

yesterday a guy tried to wave me to cross then started angrily raising his hands like "FUCKING GO!" completely oblivious to the car that flew past his left side in the opposite direction

Fredselfish ,
@Fredselfish@lemmy.world avatar

Had guy asking me to turn like that and when I refused he gave me the finger as he finally drove on. How come they hold up traffic and then get mad at you for not driving into on coming traffic?

Bertuccio ,

It reveals how they weren't actually being polite. They were doing it for themselves, not you, and you denied them their "good deed" dopamine.

Subverb ,

You're right of course, but in a broader sense there is literally no action that anyone takes that is altruistic. We only do things that benefit us or, rarely, our group as a whole.

Empricorn ,

"Death waits for no one!"

But seriously, glad you're safe...

Karyoplasma ,

Oh god, this reminds me of a cringe mistake just after I was getting my license. I was driving up to a crosswalk and there was a kid standing next to, maybe 8 or 9, holding their hand out. You know, just like they learn at school that they should do that to make it clear they want to cross even tho the car is supposed to stop anyway. I saw this and what did I do? I thought the kid waved at me and my new license, so I just drove past and waved back. What the fuck, brain?

Takumidesh ,

Generally pedestrians have the right of way at crossings (unless it's controlled with a light) in my state and neighboring states, most crosswalks even have signs that inform you to yield to pedestrians.

MBM ,

Feels like at least part of the issue is multi-lane pedestrian crossings. Most of the time that should either be single-lane, a traffic light or a tunnel/bridge.

Player2 , (edited )

In an uncontrolled crossing the pedestrian always has the right of way (North America and Europe at least). They should almost never 'wait' to cross

floofloof ,

If you trust every driver to follow the rules exactly and have their eyes open, you can risk your life by walking out. Otherwise you might wait anyway. And the rules about right of way depend on your country and state.

Kusimulkku ,

Always where? There's a bazillion different rules about this depending on where you live

Player2 ,

North America and Europe, I made an edit for clarity.

ReveredOxygen ,
@ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works avatar

Doesn't matter if I have the right of way, I'm not walking into the other lane (going 35 mph) and hoping they don't kill me

Player2 ,

I'm not saying you should be reckless, but too often I see people be either uninformed or unwilling to exercise their rights. To be fair, I do write with something of an urban bias, where thankfully those kinds of speeds are much less common.

Maggoty ,

lmao. That may be true in some places but in others it requires a crosswalk. Also, the rules aren't going to pay your hospital or funeral home bills.

Player2 ,

By crossing I mean a crosswalk, some sort of markings on the ground

Gestrid ,

It doesn't just happen when both people are trying to turn. I have a busy multi-lane road near me with a left turn lane that's just past a stoplight (the stoplight is behind me, but in front of the people whose lanes I need to cross to get to where I need to go.

I'll be stopped in the turn lane waiting for traffic to clear. The stoplight will turn red, and oncoming traffic will back up past the turn lane I'm in. Someone in one of the oncoming traffic lanes will stop before the turn lane to try to let me past, but the people in the other oncoming traffic lane (who are now in my blind spot thanks to the car that stopped to try to let me through) will keep on coming. That's just an accident waiting to happen at that point.

Theharpyeagle ,

Nothing gets me closer to road rage than people waving me on when they have the right of way at a four way stop. Like yes thank you that's very polite, but we both could've been through this intersection if you'd gone when you were supposed to.

waz , (edited )

I try to never use "the finger" when another driver is being an ass. In that case I always just give them a thumbs down and a sad face.

I save the middle finger for people who are being "nice", especially when it is making things dangerous. I find it is the quickest way get them to just go.

I try to be coniderate while driving. Being predictable is safe. Deviating from the rules is dangerous. I think being safe more considerate than being "nice".

IzzyScissor ,

I've never thought about giving drivers like this the finger, but I'm absolutely going to from now on.

It's not being 'nice'. It's dangerous. That's deserving of a middle finger.

explodicle ,

And it gets them to stop doing it. There's no "oh don't worry I'm good" that they listen to.

Maggoty ,

The only two actual rules that apply to four way stops is everyone stops and the first person to start moving gets the right of way. All that crap about the first arrival or person to the right doesn't get applied in real life. They're noble ideas, but just fucking go if no one else is.

deweydecibel ,

All that crap about the first arrival or person to the right doesn't get applied in real life.

What the hell are you talking about? People obey the first to stop first pull out rule all the damn time.

JonEFive ,

Yes, but there are also a lot of times where they don't in my personal experience. If there's a question about who technically got there first - like two cars approach at roughly the same time - the rules aren't always followed as written by other drivers.

Maggoty ,

Not in my experience. Of course, as long as people are actually stopping, someone already stopped has an advantage. But that's a difference between East and West Coast US driving. In the East people come to a complete stop before moving again. In the West they'll slow down a lot, nearly stop even. So there's definitely regional characteristics. But the most common law is that of our childhood, possession is 9/10ths of the law.

KroninJ ,
@KroninJ@lemmy.world avatar

First to stop is the safer option. I feel that most people around here follow that too.

It also has a rare benefit of seeing the interaction between a majority first-to-goers at a 4 way.

JonEFive ,

Growing up, there was a four-way stop near my house that one of my friends absolutely hated. It was a pretty busy intersection, and he hated that drivers didn't seem to follow the rules that the person to the right goes first or whatever.

One time when I was driving, he was shocked like "what are you doing!? Its not your turn, you're gonna cause an accident!" when I went. I was like "what are you talking about?" I had driven through that intersection hundreds of times and never really thought about it. When I payed attention to the way the intersection flowed, I figured out the unwritten understanding that I and everyone else approached it with. It was basically just "stop and wait for a car or two to go before proceeding". There was no guaranteed order that I could come up with, it was just that everyone in the area seemed to understand.

Written rules are great if everyone is following the written rules. If you follow the written rules at that intersection you'll be fine, but you're likely to annoy someone for a moment. Nobody is going to be confused if you wait, just impatient.

I agree with you. More important than following rules is to pay attention and adapt as appropriate. If you're the only one following the written rules, there's a chance that you're the one acting unpredictably.

Maggoty ,

Yeah the written rules seem logical. But they just don't match with human behavior.

Cryophilia ,

Found the Cali driver

Maggoty ,

Nope, been all over the country. It's always been that way.

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

Yeah this comment should not be so far in the negatives. I much prefer calling someone a dickhead for going before their turn than screaming "YOU HAVE RIGHT OF WAY" at some dipshit who's holding up traffic because they feel like being nice

Potatos_are_not_friends ,

In some towns, these yokels will stop in the middle of the street to wave you to jaywalk.

Like Jesus Christ, NOOO! Stop being polite!

aeharding ,
@aeharding@vger.social avatar

That's just a shitty road design

johannesvanderwhales ,

Very normal when small sidestreets are intersecting with larger roads.

aeharding , (edited )
@aeharding@vger.social avatar

45 mph multilane traffic, with unsignalized intersection of cross traffic? No, it's a shitty design. Just because it's normal where you live, doesn't mean it's a good design.

How to fix? Just a few examples...

  • Signalize intersection
  • Slow down thru traffic
  • Roundabout
  • Reduce thru lanes, increase turn lane offset
  • Prevent left turns from side street
atocci ,
@atocci@kbin.social avatar

I came to this thread to complain about a road I know that's exactly like this, but I just checked it out on Google Maps to make sure I'm complaining with proper details. and it looks like they actually added traffic signals sometime in the past few months!

johannesvanderwhales ,

Not every side street is worthy of building out a whole intersection for, or slowing down traffic for. Maybe if there actually is that much traffic turning left, but I suspect if that were the case it's likely at very specific times of day. And what, are you going to restrict cars off the side street to turning right and then making a u-turn? That's not better, especially if it's a long way to the next intersection.

This is just a common as dirt configuration, especially in rural areas. I don't find it remarkable at all.

aeharding ,
@aeharding@vger.social avatar

And what, are you going to restrict cars off the side street to turning right and then making a u-turn?

Yes. If there is not enough traffic for a better treatment, and the intersection cannot be made safer intersection, then left turns should be prohibited.

This is just a common as dirt configuration, especially in rural areas. I don’t find it remarkable at all.

Multilane thru traffic with turn lanes is not a typical rural configuration, at all.

biddy ,

Rural areas shouldn't be this busy. This design is fine as long as it's quiet, but it would take 1 more car waiting to turn left to back up the whole upbound road.

Velonie ,

Happens all the time as a cyclist at 2 way stop signs. No I don't want to go through when you've stopped and are waving me on but the other direction hasn't. I usually just shrug and point at my stop sign

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

Especially as a cyclist, there's a solid chance they're literally trying to kill you

paddirn ,

I was just thinking about interactions like this I've had a few times with different nice drivers, where I think they'll be trying to wave me through (no flashing brights or anything), I'm assuming to be nice, but they're far enough away that I can't see them, so I'm not entirely certain of their intent. Usually it's a busy road, so there's very little margin for error, if I misjudge what they're doing, then there's gonna be a problem. And then you both end up missing a chance to go because they screwed up the process, when, if they just hadn't tried to be nice and just went like they were supposed to, we both could've gone. Just follow the dumb traffic laws.

The exception to this though is at my kid's school. To turn into the school, there's a system that most of the parents follow and it works well, we essentially treat the entryway as a modified 3-way stop. Whoever has the easiest time to get in/get out go last in the order. So people needing to pull out and make a left turn onto the main road get first priority, then people needing to make a left turn into the school, finally people making a right-hand turn either into or out of the school go last. Anyone not going into the school just keeps going.

This system works better than when a traffic cop is occasionally posted to direct traffic (for whatever reason). With the cop, traffic gets backed up everywhere around the school and it takes everyone forever to get where they need to go. Without the cop, most people follow "the system" and traffic flows smoothly. When someone doesn't follow the system, it's not necessarily a surprise because they just don't wait, but usually a car or two later follows the system and everyone goes where they need to. You're rarely waiting for long.

LyD ,

This happened to me, I was the fast car. Here's the dash cam video: https://streamable.com/q98ojg

aregularbeaneater ,

Dang, and they just zoom off after without a care

LyD ,

She had to slam on her brakes or she still would have hit me. When I looked back she made a clear "I fucked up" gesture that wasn't caught on cam.

stebo02 ,

tbh there weren't many options for them besides waiting for the entire line of cars to pass which could've taken forever

LyD ,

The guy leaving the gap tried to wave her through but I guess she didn't see the "STOP" gesture he started throwing when I got too close.

fishbone ,

To quote alice in wonderland:

"How long is forever?"

"Sometimes, just one second"

theluckyone ,

I've got several years of experience riding motorcycles. It's taught me to read traffic. I see a gap in a line of traffic like that, it's either a driver who's smart enough not to block an intersection (rare), or someone letting another someone out.

LyD ,

When I saw the gap I started watching it closely. I probably wouldn't have been able react fast enough otherwise.

alyth , (edited )

Damn, you have a store that specializes in maps, that's cool

jdf038 ,

I'm a high school teacher and students and parents both pull this shit. Drives me nuts.

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