randomaccount43543 OP ,

https://explainxkcd.com/2932

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

This specific situation wouldn’t be an issue if it was left side driving.

Mok98 ,

Mirror the comic and make the guy want to turn right and you have the exact same problem

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

That’s not the exact same problem, it’s mirrored and therefore technically different.

9point6 ,

Hey man, I laughed

Mok98 ,

Technically correct, the best kind of correct

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/85617898-0288-4723-badd-82a303e6aabb.jpeg

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

... and this right here ladies and gentlemen, are the kinds of people who you share the road with. Someone that was competent enough at a time to pass a multiple-answer test, but somehow still knows nothing, and will argue about their answer and flawed reasoning.

Just something to think about on the way to work. I was a first-responder to something like 7 collisions, from motorcycle riders getting cut off, to pregnant teenagers running red lights and almost losing the baby, to people getting rear-ended at highway speeds and trapped in their cars. Physics doesn't give two shits about technicalities and what-ifs. Stay safe, everyone.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

This specific situation

The original comment of mine and every one since has been a joke.

Take that stick out of your arse and stop letting it post walls of text.

frezik ,

Ever see a standup comedian try to repeat a joke when people didn't laugh at it in the first place, and figured they just didn't get it the first time?

If a whole lot of people are collectively deciding it's not funny, stop trying to make it work.

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

If you have to explain the joke, it's not funny.

9point6 ,

The issue is stupid intersections like this, roundabouts or bridges and slip lanes are the way to do this.

EarMaster ,

I prefer the Mad Max style thunderdome intersection...

EarMaster ,

Wait until you learn about turn right on red...

vk6flab ,
@vk6flab@lemmy.radio avatar

Watching a couple of Dashcam videos is the perfect way to explore this phenomenon in full HD colour and often colourful sound.

NightAuthor ,

When driving:
Don’t be nice, be predictable.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

This is the way.

tables ,

You can be nice, just make sure you think about what you're actually doing before doing it.

Letting a car go in front in the situation above: you're probably causing an accident.

Letting a car go in heavy traffic when there's one lane each way and everyone's stopped already anyway: won't cost you much time and you've allowed that person to move on with their life instead of being permanently stuck at an intersection he's never going to be able to get out of unless someone yields.

I live close to a few intersections where if no one is nice and yields, it's impossible to join unless you barge your way in and hope people stop. But to be fair, these aren't designed like death traps like the one above.

llii ,

think about what you’re actually doing before doing it.

That's too much thinking for most people.

deweydecibel ,

That goes for the driver that's being waived through, too.

roude ,

Letting a car go in front in the situation above: you're probably causing an accident.

I disagree. In this situation, you are letting the left turning car move to the middle lane of this five lane road. From there, they can make a better decision of when to go. You aren’t causing an accident by letting them go TO THE MIDDLE LANE. From that point on, it is their ability to merge that may cause an accident. But they are supposed to stop in the middle lane and check that they can merge BEFORE they merge.

meowMix2525 ,

There is no middle lane here wtf are you talking about

roude ,

Edit: Woof, sorry my phone mangled my comment into a hot mess. Fixed it and re-commented here.

You are supposed to be in the middle near that rounded portion just above the time-traveling assassin.

These…

Turning Left on a Straightaway: Most main roads have median lanes into which you can move your vehicle if you need to turn left off of a straightaway. Move into the median, and yield the right of way to the oncoming traffic. Once there is an opening, you can complete your turn.

Turning Left onto a Straightaway with a vehicle in the median: Every once in a while, you’ll be trying to turn onto a straight away, and you’ll find someone already in the median—right where you need to be! The rule is that the vehicle in the media has the right of way. The idea is that they are in the most vulnerable position because they are literally stopped in the middle of the road. Let them complete their turn before you move to the median.

… from this.

meowMix2525 ,

That is not what that excerpt is talking about, that is talking about a road with a middle turn lane.

The road pictured here has a median which cannot be driven over, generally there's a kerb and it's usually just grass on top. The center part is not for stopping in, it is only for driving through. You should not proceed unless you have a clear view of traffic from where that car is sitting on the left. In some cases there will be a white line to stop there, and in that case that is okay, but that is not what is pictured here.

roude , (edited )

What are YOU talking about? The median can 100% be driven over (circled in red below), and the center part (again, circled in red) is entirely intended to stop in prior to merging.

The entire middle area is the median, which also contains protected left hand turns, a raised section, and what I assume is a painted median (maybe, maybe not, but again the circled portion). I am talking about stopping here, in the circled portion, prior to merging. You are supposed to stop there, assuming you aren’t towing or driving a longer-than-average vehicle, if you do not have visibility into the lane you are merging into.

The quoted text I have above specifically mentions a left hand turn onto a straightway WITH ANOTHER VEHICLE IN THE MEDIAN, so clearly they mean a median that allows driving through.

Picture.

Edit: The predictable thing to do here, turning left with low visibility into the lane you are merging into due to obscuring traffic, is to yield to traffic coming from your left until you have: no traffic coming from the right, or someone from the right waves you through. You then stop in the middle, circled red portion until it is safe to complete your turn. You don’t just Hail Mary blindly drive from where you were initially stopped into the desired lane. That is how you cause an accident.

meowMix2525 ,

I think you are entirely missing the point of this comic and misunderstanding the rules of the pictured intersection. There's a reason these were outlawed in my state (michigan). They are a dumb way to direct traffic, the "stopping room" you've circled is not meant for stopping in, or else there would be far more space there, likely an entire lane of room. I'm not suggesting making blind turns. You are not supposed to proceed without visibility or merging room, hence why the stopped line of cars in the middle lane have the right-of-way as they are blocking your view of that and possibly the traffic behind them, which the person at the front of the line has almost no way of knowing. You stop in the middle then you are still blocking them for as long as it takes to merge into traffic now that you've got yourself in this situation.

It just does not make sense to do it that way. If you can't make the turn left then you turn right and find somewhere to turn around, which is how our roads are designed from the jump here in michigan.

Anyways, this is a really stupid argument and I'm really not interested in continuing it.

roude ,

Alright, bow out if you must. But keep in mind here you chose to pedantically argue there is no middle lane. You picked this fight, when my original argument to the first commenter I responded to was that allowing someone to go when you are in the middle lane of the straightaway (a.k.a the time-traveling assassin) is not "causing an accident". So agreed it is stupid, but it isn’t like I called you out first for something silly.

papalonian ,

Alright, bow out if you must.

Cringe, and implies you're trying to win an argument rather than have a conversation.

Also, I'm sorry, but you're totally wrong. I know what kind of intersection you're talking about, this definitely is not it. Maybe it's a regional thing, but XKCD is an American webcomic, these intersections are all over the place and you definitely are not supposed to stop in them.

Intersection

This is the kind of intersection you're talking about. You'll notice that the center area where the car turns is much longer than the area in the original post, in addition to having clear lane indications.

If someone were to stop in the intersection in the OP, they would have to be stopped at an awkward angle not parallel to either lane, and if someone were to follow them into the intersection, the second person would have nowhere to go.

Long story short, there's two different kinds of intersections being discussed here, regardless of whether or not you acknowledge it or which one you believe is being depicted. One of them makes the comic make sense, while the other does not. Which one do you think the artist intended to draw?

roude , (edited )

Cringe? Okay, thanks. So this was a discussion until meowMix came in with a "there is no middle lane what the f* are you talking about". Charged language, incorrect statement, and a nitpick nonetheless.

Now you are here arguing for meowMix, but again, you are arguing something counter to most US states. You are generally allowed to turn into an intersection as long as you are not impeding traffic turning left in that same intersection. I am talking about intersections without lights, not controlled intersections. Those are different, and not applicable here.

In this case, there is clearly enough room for a reasonable sized car to be in the intersection assuming they yielded for traffic from the left AND were waved into the intersection by another left turning car on the straightaway (the time traveling assassin), so traffic from the right. Left and right, basically the general rule that applies to all left turning uncontrolled intersection traffic questions. But that waving though only is to the lane of the car waving you through, closest to your side of the street. No time traveling assassin can give you right of way to lanes to their right, a.k.a the lane with the 45 mph car.

That’s the premise of this joke, that people cannot give you right of way to SOMEONE ELSE’S LANE. In case everything above is still unclear, there is a wiki for this exact joke. Because this has been debated countless times before. Because everything from xkcd has. Because this is the internet, where everything is debated to death.

Now I have no idea where this supposed intersection is. Could be Pennsylvania where the artist is from, or Virginia where they went to college. Or even Massachusetts where they currently reside. Or it could be in any number of states that allow this exact behavior I am talking about. Tough to say without knowing directly from the author where this is from.

The example you provided is another intersection type, and different than the joke. The middle section of the joke is what appears to be a double wide (wide as two lanes) section, so there is definitely enough room for a standard sized car. Angle of the intersection plays no part in whether it is a valid turning place, awkward or not. There are countless examples of intersections that aren’t perfectly perpendicular, should ALL of these awkward left turn merges be forbidden because you aren’t in a spot exactly parallel to the lane you are merging into? No.

Who cares about the second person? You shouldn’t be taking them into consideration for this kind of turn. They are supposed to turn when they have enough space. Following you blindly into an intersection is a poor decision on their part, and of course not your responsibility.

Long story not short! You’re talking about a different intersection, not even the one from the joke. You are right there are different kinds of intersections, but any of them with: an intersection, two left turning drivers, a two way straightaway, a middle section with a left turning lane (a.k.a. a middle lane, or a center left lane, or a median with a raised section and left turning lane, …), and enough space for a non-straightaway left turning car to move into the intersection without impeding traffic from either direction of the straightaway would have worked for this joke.

Because the joke wasn’t there isn’t enough space in the intersection. It was that NO DRIVER CAN GIVE YOU RIGHT OF WAY TO SOMEONE ELSE’S LANE.

You’re potentially right that I enjoy a debate, most people on the internet do. That’s why I am here. But I’ll be damned if sit on the sidelines while some cat food user makes an incorrect nitpick, or you yourself argue for driving behavior that is counter to most states’ DMV rules.

deweydecibel ,

I was gonna lose my mind reading some of these comments. Thank you for being sensible.

The majority of cases where one could politely let someone through are not going to be on highways like this.

It's also ridiculous to assume that the driver that you're letting through would just stop checking for oncoming traffic because you waved them through.

tables ,

Driving is one of those things where we're supposed to be human - make choices, act sensibly, think about what we're doing and adapt to others around us. But often people assume it's something entirely deterministic - "if the light is green I'm going to launch forward even if there's still traffic moving past me and I'm going to get hit or hit someone, because green means I HAVE to go".

Being polite to others, asides from the nicety of it, is often more positive to everyone on the road than going "I have the right of way so I won't let anyone in" and allows traffic as a whole to move with less issues. But some people go way too hard on the mentality that every road user other than them is stupid and stop acting like humans because they assume others won't be able to cope. Which usually complicates traffic for everyone.

There's a roundabout in my daily commute in which at the end of the afternoon 80% of drivers are coming from and going to the same direction and there's usually heavy traffic in that specific direction that blocks the roundabout. Often, drivers who are approaching the roundabout to go to a different direction will signal their intention, and users already inside the roundabout will give way - even if they technically have the right of way and don't have to - because those users aren't going their direction and will only increase the number of cars stuck if they're not allowed through. Roundabout users being polite effectively makes traffic as a whole go more smoothly and everyone benefits. Sometimes someone inside the roundabout will be an ass and not let people through - and the result is always that everyone is stuck for more time because there are now cars inside the roundabout which could've already vacated it which are stuck behind someone who could easily let them through.

Mac ,

you dont have two lane roads in your town? i sure do and this is a real issue. the driver pulling into traffic cannot see the car coming along at higher speed.

Mac ,

you dont have two lane roads in your town? i sure do and this is a real issue. the driver pulling into traffic cannot see the car coming along at higher speed.

TrickDacy ,

Not mutually exclusive

Empricorn , (edited )

Yeah, this had fucking better be the top comment!

JeffreyOrange ,

This happens to me every other day. Ffs please don't be polite, just drive by the rules. I hate it when cars stop in the middle of the road and you have to wait for them to start driving again because you often can't know i f they are being polite of if they are just adjusting google maps and continue to drive.

ADTJ ,

I especially hate when you're waiting to cross and people slow down to a stop and then wave you across, but there was no-one behind them.

You could have just carried on at the same speed and we'd both have got on with our day sooner.

4am ,

This is every day of my life and I’m like “no, fucker, there’s a space behind you just GO”

brbposting ,

I face away or even walk away from crosswalks as needed. Entirely abates intentions to give pedestrians the right of way when there’s apparently no intention to cross in the first place.

Go so far as to time my approaches to intersections accordingly. Can’t say the strategy has ever failed - even the Mother Teresa of driving isn’t going to wave somebody who pretty much isn’t there. (YMMV, somewhat density & volume dependent.)

ADTJ ,

Sometimes though I am waiting to cross and then the last car in the train slows down, like noooo

IWantToFuckSpez ,

Roundabouts ftw. Best traffic invention to beat time traveling assassins.

wander1236 ,
@wander1236@sh.itjust.works avatar

Except the ones with two lanes that can both exit or continue

princessnorah ,
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I have never seen a roundabout here in Australia that allows for these sorts of conflicting movements, that would be asinine. Are you saying there's multiple lanes that can exit or go straight such that someone in the inside lane can turn out in front of someone continuing around in the outside lane? Is this a North American thing? Of course that would result in accidents, don't build your bloody roundabouts like that!!

I drive through three lane (six lane road) roundabouts all the time and no one gets hurt. In fact I have to drive through two such roundabouts to get to the nearest freeway.

wander1236 ,
@wander1236@sh.itjust.works avatar

There are so many like this in the US. I don't understand who thought they were a good idea or why they keep getting made

nulluser , (edited )

I'm absolutely calling BS. I've never seen such a thing and wagering that you are just confused about what lanes can do what (or you're just making shit up). There are several roundabouts near me where an inside lane can turn out or go straight, but in all of those cases all lanes further out are required to turn out. The people that design traffic patterns aren't idiots, but there's no shortage of idiot drivers that can't follow even the simplest patterns.

If you want to insist, all you need to do is link to such an intersection in google maps so I can look at the aerial view. I'm honestly curious how they would paint the traffic lanes to indicate what you're describing.

4am ,

I-91 & Rt 2, Massachusetts USA

digdug ,

Even on that, a driver in the right lane must exit. If they want to continue to the left, they are required to make a lane change, in which case all lane change rules would apply.

Rai ,

I’ve got some near to me that both lanes can exit, but you must be in the inside lane to keep going round. They’re very strangely designed.

marcos ,

Imagine a roundabout where most of the traffic flows straight on only one of the streets. Things would improve a lot of you gave that street the right of way and cut a shortcut on the middle of the roundabout, wouldn't them?

(/s by the way, but a lot of transit engineers to really believe in this. Unironically.)

princessnorah ,
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

You jest, but we do kind of have something like this in Melbourne, Australia. Except the vehicles that get to cut through the middle of the roundabout are Trams. Plus while they're trundling through, everyone else has to stop and wait for them.

https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/854c2b66-98cd-4370-8d35-a71f953208b5.jpeg

marcos ,

I was not joking when I said a lot of transit engineers believe on it.

That one is one of the least bad I've seen. Try imagine it on the cross of two roads (actual high-speed roads, country-side). I've seen many of those.

princessnorah ,
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I'm bloody sorry but did you just say this is one of the least bad you've seen?? Let me give you a different view:

https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/eb2122dd-f25d-4998-a1c6-30ec1f78b15c.jpeg

https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/8b449859-dd2b-489e-a642-ad1a209d1835.jpeg

Trams traverse the traffic lanes at three points, as well as one making an immediate left turn exit. There are four traffic lanes. Royal Parade has inside lanes and service lanes.

But I also don't have to imagine that at all, those are common here too and I've never had a problem at them:

https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/e1f30e42-7dad-47a2-a780-b9dba8bab94d.jpeg

Notice how the approaching lane at the bottom left has an artificial curve added to it? It's traffic calming to help slow down cars before they get to the roundabout itself.

marcos ,

That second picture of yours is just a normal roundabout. Try making one of the roads pass directly through it. And don't change the signaling.

I've noticed that the tram line cuts the traffic in 3 points. What is the speed of that street? Anyway, the tram line is clearly signed in a way that can be noticed on the photo. And every car there is making a weird curve, nobody is speeding anyway.

princessnorah , (edited )
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

What is the speed of that street?

You'll have to be specific, all five of the roads that enter this roundabout are different, none actually continue through it. I think the maximum speed limit in the area is 60km/h though.

Edit: Also, the weird looking building in the first picture? That's the Royal Melbourne Hospital. There is A Lot going on at this roundabout. Though I guess as far as it not being "bad" it is probably the best intersection they could have built for this location. The cycle length if it were a signalised intersection would be insane.

3ntranced ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/025a3f3b-b6bc-431f-8e2d-422fc79eae55.jpeg
Right near my old house, dubbed the "Suicide Circle" for how everyone drives through it seemingly unaware of any other drivers on the road.

princessnorah ,
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I don't see any conflicting movements here. I have a roundabout almost exactly like this just around the corner. It's not complicated.

3ntranced ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d82340bf-3aae-49d7-a47a-3a6dbf591164.jpeg
It's more the amount of choke points that turn to gridlock at rush hour. That plus it's the Midwest so 85% of the population doesn't understand how they work.

princessnorah ,
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I think it's probably got more to do with the drivers. There are plenty of roundabouts like this where I am in Aus, and they get used just fine. Over here they have a far lower rate of accidents than other types of intersections. We never have 4 way stops either, we just put a roundabout there.

onion , (edited )

Does this intersection not have traffic lights? It seems very dangerous without, since the driver from the left can't see the fast through-traffic well. They are also crossing three streams of traffic at once.

In the comic would be space for an extra merging lane at the top, so that the driver from the left only crosses two traffic streams and then safely merges into the 45mph stream from the merging lane

CrazyEddie041 ,

A grocery store near my house has an entrance exactly like this, except the roads are 3 lanes each. It's genuinely a nightmare to navigate if it's even remotely busy.

bob_lemon ,

A simple (albeit inconvenient) way to improve safety in this case is to prohibit turning left and allowing for a U turn somewhat close by.

TwitchingCheese ,

A.k.a. a Michigan Left, one of those things like roundabouts that's safer and more efficient but people get annoyed at.

vrek ,

So one of the reasons I'm moving is to get away from this. I have this intersection by my apartment. A few hundred feet behind the assassin is a highway intersection, and the road the victim is coming from has 4 huge apartment complexes.

There is no light. Making a left there(which leads to a outdoor mall) during rush hour requires atleast 3 virgin sacrifices...

RampantParanoia2365 ,

My neighborhood has this exact intersection in order to turn left out of it, no light. I only go left if the roads aren't too busy. Otherwise I go right then U-Turn.

feedum_sneedson ,

wave of death

PeteBauxigeg ,

The very first time I drove a car on my own this happened (i.e. I was waiting to make the "left" turn) and I went and nearly hit another car lol

MNByChoice ,

Well phrased!

If one doesn't control the intersection, one doesn't get to be nice.

quink ,

That, to me, looks like an intersection I would never want to turn left on in the first place in anything but the most deserted area.

Lesrid ,

Which is the delusion that the US's traffic engineers based all of their decisions on 60 years ago.

"This'll be fine hardly anybody lives out here"

ilinamorato ,

It's compounded by the delusion that the US's traffic engineers base all of their decisions on now.

"It'll be fine, it's been here for 60 years."

marcos ,

It doesn't work when nobody lives around either.

The only way this can work is if both all cars are from the 30s, only able to move at 50 km/h, and nobody lives around.

TexasDrunk ,

Yep, same. I'll bust a right and flip around a street up the road.

meowMix2525 ,

Yeah this is the only legal way to turn left in a road with a median like this in michigan. You have to turn right to turn left.

floofloof ,

This applies when you're a pedestrian waiting to cross too. There are always those drivers who think they're doing you a favor by stopping one of the lanes of traffic so you can walk out into the other. They smile and wave and look baffled when you don't take the bait.

ramirezmike ,

yesterday a guy tried to wave me to cross then started angrily raising his hands like "FUCKING GO!" completely oblivious to the car that flew past his left side in the opposite direction

Fredselfish ,
@Fredselfish@lemmy.world avatar

Had guy asking me to turn like that and when I refused he gave me the finger as he finally drove on. How come they hold up traffic and then get mad at you for not driving into on coming traffic?

Bertuccio ,

It reveals how they weren't actually being polite. They were doing it for themselves, not you, and you denied them their "good deed" dopamine.

Subverb ,

You're right of course, but in a broader sense there is literally no action that anyone takes that is altruistic. We only do things that benefit us or, rarely, our group as a whole.

Empricorn ,

"Death waits for no one!"

But seriously, glad you're safe...

Karyoplasma ,

Oh god, this reminds me of a cringe mistake just after I was getting my license. I was driving up to a crosswalk and there was a kid standing next to, maybe 8 or 9, holding their hand out. You know, just like they learn at school that they should do that to make it clear they want to cross even tho the car is supposed to stop anyway. I saw this and what did I do? I thought the kid waved at me and my new license, so I just drove past and waved back. What the fuck, brain?

Takumidesh ,

Generally pedestrians have the right of way at crossings (unless it's controlled with a light) in my state and neighboring states, most crosswalks even have signs that inform you to yield to pedestrians.

MBM ,

Feels like at least part of the issue is multi-lane pedestrian crossings. Most of the time that should either be single-lane, a traffic light or a tunnel/bridge.

Player2 , (edited )

In an uncontrolled crossing the pedestrian always has the right of way (North America and Europe at least). They should almost never 'wait' to cross

floofloof ,

If you trust every driver to follow the rules exactly and have their eyes open, you can risk your life by walking out. Otherwise you might wait anyway. And the rules about right of way depend on your country and state.

Kusimulkku ,

Always where? There's a bazillion different rules about this depending on where you live

Player2 ,

North America and Europe, I made an edit for clarity.

ReveredOxygen ,
@ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works avatar

Doesn't matter if I have the right of way, I'm not walking into the other lane (going 35 mph) and hoping they don't kill me

Player2 ,

I'm not saying you should be reckless, but too often I see people be either uninformed or unwilling to exercise their rights. To be fair, I do write with something of an urban bias, where thankfully those kinds of speeds are much less common.

Maggoty ,

lmao. That may be true in some places but in others it requires a crosswalk. Also, the rules aren't going to pay your hospital or funeral home bills.

Player2 ,

By crossing I mean a crosswalk, some sort of markings on the ground

4am ,

Rhode Island in shambles

agamemnonymous ,
@agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works avatar

This intersection is the start of my daily commute. Drive to the median, clear of traffic in both directions, then check incoming traffic before proceeding

RidcullyTheBrown ,

I was the car they were waved into a few hours ago. But the car doing the waving was from the incoming lane (left lane on this picture) so it didn't even register that they stopped. I wasn't even looking left, I was just suddenly cut off and hit the brakes as a reflex all the while wondering what happened and why my car is slowing down.

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