Holocaust survivors urge young EU voters to shun far right ( www.dw.com )

A group of eight Holocaust survivors drew parallels between the current political climate and that of Germany in the 1930s. Some of them condemned the far-right Alternative for Germany party (AfD).

Eight Holocaust survivors have urged young people to shun far-right parties and vote to protect democracy at the upcoming European Union elections.

"For millions of you, the European elections are the first election in your lives. For many of us, it could be the last," read the open letter, unveiled in Berlin on Tuesday.

"We couldn't stop it back then. But you can today," the eight authors wrote.

Jim_Just_Jim , (edited )

Or how about, and hear me out now, because I know it sounds crazy...

How about you stop shunning people because you perceive them as "far" right or "far" left?

How about voting for politicians that seek compromise?

How about you stop contributing to polarization and start treating those with opposing views with respect and work to find a common ground upon which you can build mutual trust and cooperation?

What do I know? I'm just a middle class dude who loves hearing everyone's perspectives when they can treat me with respect, hear mine, and then discuss the reasons why we see the world differently.

I'm also married to a woman who disagrees with me constantly on political matters, and we love each other even more because we can challenge each other to see the world differently.

While understand that these people have experienced trauma, division is not the answer. Division is the foundation upon which hate is built.

Edit: seeing a downvote trend without further comments. To be totally honest if you disagree I would absolutely love to hear your thoughts. I can't grow or learn from others' perspectives without being challenged.

shield_gengar ,
@shield_gengar@sh.itjust.works avatar

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/8abaae32-56fd-41e2-ae47-117c685e3504.webp

Not sure if you've seen this.

Jim_Just_Jim , (edited )

I have not seen that, but I don't think I agree with it. But maybe I'm misinterpreting the image because I'm admittedly feeling a bit defensive?

So that I can better understand, I ask a completely innocent question. Do you perceive my comment as encouraging people to tolerate intolerance?

For some clarification, I put "far" in parenthesis because I feel the term "far", in this age of "outrage culture" is relative and influenced largely by propaganda, social media, and rhetoric. Additionally, the term "shun" means to keep away from or take pains to avoid.

These people should not be shunned. You can and absolutely should have a conversation with someone you perceive as intolerant. Because I feel the term "far" is relative these days, I believe we are often quick to label people based on their emotional expressions, short sighted social media posts, or impulsive comments. So if you find yourself suspecting that someone is intolerant, I would encourage you to have a conversation. If your conversation further confirms that someone is expressing intolerant beliefs, you owe it to yourself and the other party to respectfully challenge them and express your interpretation of their perspective.

My personal experience is that if you are fortunate enough to find yourself engaging with someone open to debate, you should stand fast on your perspective. If you can respect each other, the words you speak are more likely to resonate. If you disrespect the opposing party, then you will almost certainly be dismissed, no matter how morally right you are, or perceive yourself to be. The other person will almost certainly see your disrespect as some sort of confirmation of their own perspective.

Seeking common ground puts you in a position to build trust and credibility, so that you can offer an alternate perspective as an ally and without being dismissed as an opponent. Don't avoid. Engage and change. If you ignore a weed, it continues to grow and pollinate. It must be effectively uprooted.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

Edit: I am observing a trend of down voting this without further engagement. That's unfortunate. I would love to hear other's opinions. I'm honestly not a hater or troll, and do love to hear opposing opinions! Use your voice to share your thoughts!

shield_gengar , (edited )
@shield_gengar@sh.itjust.works avatar

I haven't downvoted you, and sucks that it's happening, but usually the "both sides" crowd don't understand that there isn't much nuance to their argument. For example, Nazis want to kill all non-aryans. Others, want to live. The compromise there is only kill some non-aryans. Is that something you're okay with?

If not, why do you think talking to Others would change the rhetoric on the Nazi side? There clearly one extremely bad side here, but that's an easy example. Real life is littered with less-extreme versions. For example, I saw an article the other day of someone who wouldn't sell their house to a woman of color after they finally met her. What a bunch of knobs.

I agree that culture and togetherness is the best way to cure these people. In general, I've started to see racism as a mental deficiency; it's something that could be treated. But what you're saying is tone deaf. "Go get yelled at by the far right, maybe you'll find common ground" is not an experience you've likely had to deal with i.e. your advice sounds like it comes from someone that hasn't dealt with virulent intolerance before. Sure, with someone you like, talk to them...get them mentally efficient again. But fuck off if you expect me to do that to strangers who have, for decades, bullied people like my friends to the point of depression and suicide. Understand that it takes a lot of time to deprogram someone, and you're not the one doing it. In fact, you want victims to do it.

Finally you said something that bothers me. "Don't shun the far right". You're right that we shouldn't ignore them. They should be monitored, closely, because they're dangerous. But stop giving fuckheads a platform. It's ridiculous that as a race, we've had to listen to all the town idiots berate and spew their hatred. Emotionally-immature people get caught up in their rhetoric before they've had the chance to grow into a decent human being, and by the time they're 35, it's too late; they're now the racist uncle at Thanksgiving. Americans have a laugh around the holidays, but deep down it's truly vile. And even if that uncle turns it around at 36, the damage has been done to countless people he's interacted with. "Oh but he's better now" just isn't good enough for his victims.

My kids aren't listening to all right-wing fuckheads, because I know they're not there yet, emotionally, to critically think about what the belligerents are on about. If you think your kids are special, great - good for you. But remember that every interview about a christofascist mass killing has their friends, family, and neighbors going on about how "he was a nice boy". The people selling this bile are much better at selling than others are critical thinking.

31337 ,

AfD is far right. They are ethno-nationalists that believe only ethnic-Germans belong in Germany. A leader has defended the Nazi SS. They have discussed re-migrating German citizens out of Germany. How do you compromise with people who would like to carry out an ethnic cleansing? Only forcibly relocate Muslims for now, and wait until next year to expel the Jewry?

Most far-right politicians do not debate or operate politically in good-faith. IDK about the people who vote for them. I think it usually takes years of slow progress for people to move away from extremist positions, and it takes a change in their environment to start the process (new social circle, life experiences, media consumption habits, etc).

Jim_Just_Jim ,

I hate to sound cynical but when I read the replies here, I see more close mindedness that won't do anything to affect change. You can't change a culture if you're so hateful or resentful that you refuse to engage.

My opinion is that if you're not picking up the hammer and building the bridge, then you're part of the problem.

That's my experience as a once hyper conservative whose perspective only changed because someone approached me with respect and engaged me to change my perspective.

But it's clear that many here don't want to be true agents for change, but prefer to inflame division. You will never change a culture through hatred. You'll only cause them to "dig in".

But y'all keep doing you and post your hate so you can your upvotes.

mal3oon ,

You know how ironic is that poster right? It's called a paradox for a reason, there is even a version where Hitler is replaced by an Islamic preacher. Only the election will tell.

SuddenDownpour ,

How about you stop contributing to polarization and start treating those with opposing views with respect and work to find a common ground upon which you can build mutual trust and cooperation?

Because far right people oppose ALL of that, maybe??? You can't just choose to cooperate with someone who wants to deprive you of your rights. It has to go both ways.

veganpizza69 ,
@veganpizza69@lemmy.world avatar

How about you stop contributing to polarization and start treating those with opposing views with respect and work to find a common ground upon which you can build mutual trust and cooperation?

Can't find common ground wit those who live by exclusion. They only want ground for themselves and the only "common" thing they accept is "let's fight to the death for it".

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/0a24bdfc-001f-41d2-a49f-4da0ef8dc1a1.webp

jjjalljs ,

It's difficult to compromise with people who want to kill you for what you are.

Jim_Just_Jim ,

Your definition of "far" seems to be "people who want to kill you for what you are". But others' definition of "far" is "people who disagree with you and vote against your cause". Those are not the same. And conflating the two only exacerbates the division.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

The "left" German party banned free speech and smacked down people protesting against Genocide. Even banned people that came to speak up for Palestinian rights from all of Europe illegally (got overturned by judge) to prevent people from speaking up against israel. And the Germans proceed to equate Zionism to Judaism as much as possible to use the Jews as an excuse for their war crimes once again.

We're doing the Genocide thing already. Nazi Germany is in full force this very day providing 30% of the weapons for it.

You can't say "never again" while it's happening in front of your eyes.

SuddenDownpour ,

By <the "left" German party> do you mean the SPD or Die Linke? Die Linke literally means "The Left".

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

The Social Democratic Party sounds pretty left to me. Scholz was supposed to be a "left wing" move compared to Angela Merkels CDU. We're not seeing much "Left winging".

This in turn will not motivate people to vote left wing. Thus boosting the right wing.

aaa999 ,

lol imagine spamming "allow trump to win to make a principled stand against genocide joe" articles to every community so much that people see your username and immediately downvote lmao

Sidyctism2 ,

Maybe dont comment on another countries politics if your analysis doesnt go deeper than "the party is called 'this' so I recon they stand for 'this'". The spd is a centrist party, everyone in germany knows that

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Well no.

he SPD is a far right party as they have proven by destroying the German democracy in order to bow down to israel. Everyone with eyes can observe this.

Sidyctism2 ,

"Far-right"? yeah im really curious about the scale you are using. What would you call the AfD if they said tomorrow that they will suppport palestine?

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

The one with the examples given above about how they arrested and banned people from the country people for supporting Palestine and abolished freedom of speech.

What would you call the AfD if they said tomorrow that they will suppport palestine?

I would call a perfect example of whataboutism to not have to engage with the examples I mentioned above.

SuddenDownpour ,

They're just asking you to explain the metric you're using.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

The one using Social and Democrat for the name. Unless Social in Germany always means National Socialist Movement I associate that with a party representing left values.

American Democrats were also supposed to be left wing. And the Republicans right wing. Now we have far far right and far right.

Sidyctism2 ,

Ok cool

Aceticon , (edited )

If a party is supporting a country committing genocide along ethnic lines because of the very ethnicity that's in control in that country and would not do it if a different ethnicity was dominant, then they're at the very least extremely racist, "racist" because their support is based on ethnicity "extremely" because not even Genocide along ethnic lines makes them waver in their support.

In the Modern Era (post WWII) extreme racism is a far-right trait.

It looks at lot like in Germany most of the political landscape has not evolved away from seeing people and nations as etnics first and foremost, which is one of the core foundations of Fascist thinking, including Nazism.

Outside the Racist, Fascist logic, "never again" is about such things not being done to any people not merely to people of a specific ethnicity.

Even the non-Fascist Right would only ever rationalise support of a country committing genocide along ethical lines on money terms (just look at most of the US' support for dictatorships) or security terms (I.e. "they're valuable allies") rather than ethnic composition of the government and population of the country.

It was actually a major disappointment for me to discover that German political thing hasn't actually moved all that much away from some Nazi principles about the worth of human beings.

mal3oon ,

At this point, left or right lost any meaning. Everyone has their dimension/criteria/issue for what's considered left and right. It's just meaningless.

cro_magnon_gilf ,

Socialists and liberalists had their chance. They showed that they want to harm society, devalue workers, discriminate against men and suppress those who don't toe the PC line.

Sorry old girl. There's only one alternative if you're a swedish man.

footoro ,

Stop right there Adolfsson. You really showed those 90 year old holocaust survivors who’s the man with your comment on a platform mainly used by mid 20 - mid 30 men working in IT.

jose1324 ,

Nazi detected

cro_magnon_gilf ,

Yet I'm the one who's removed for disagreeing with the mandatory opinions

jose1324 ,

You're not removed. But you are in the victim complex, like all of ya

jeena ,
@jeena@jemmy.jeena.net avatar

I hope they will be able to do the same for the Israeli youth, because there the theocratic fashists are in power right now already.

AmidFuror ,

They're doing this because they're German, and they are trying to influence politics in the place they live.

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Also, the person you talked to seems to think the Holocaust was solely a genocide of Jews with a comment like that. Any of those eight could have been Roma, LGBT+, disabled... all kinds of possibilities.

Israel wants to be connected to the Holocaust in a deeper way than it should be. And I say that as a Jewish person.

jeena ,
@jeena@jemmy.jeena.net avatar

The persons great grandfather died in Auschwitz because he was fighting for a independent Silesia.

But yeah, ...

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Cool. Half my family died in the Holocaust. I still don't associate it with 2024 Israel like Netanyahu wants.

jeena ,
@jeena@jemmy.jeena.net avatar

Are you saying German holocaust survivers should only protest German fashists and not Israeli fashists because if they do then they associate the Holocaust with Israel and thus help Netanjahu with it?

I have a hard time understanding your position.

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Why exactly would Israelis care what they had to say? Unless the answer is "because they're Jews and the Holocaust is a Jewish thing," I can't think of a reason.

footoro ,

I mean this is still about the EU-elections and not Germany specific. The far right is a huge problem in all of Europe and some of the worst already dictator like fascists like Orban not only seek to actively undermine the EU wherever they can, but they’re also best buddies with Israeli politicians.

I think it’s important to remember as you said that the holocaust wasn’t only about Jews and that Zionism doesn’t equate Judaism, but to draw a connection between fascists in Europe and fascists in Israel who happen to commit genocide right now doesn’t seem so far fetched in general.

jeena ,
@jeena@jemmy.jeena.net avatar

My thinking was in the lines why they are doing in Germany too. They say look what the fashists did, never again! Same message would make sense in today's Israel too.

barsoap ,

Oh there's a simple reason why Israelis should care: Because sliding into fascism is a calamity for everyone, yes, also for the perpetrating people. Maybe that's what all this is about, they want to understand that through personal experience. Ride the death drive for a while.

nyctre ,

For the same reason young Germans should care. For the same reason everyone should care. Because fascism is bad and everyone should listen to these people and vote against it. Op simply pointed out that there's a pretty fascistic government in power right now in Israel and hopefully the youth(and everyone else for that matter) will take some inspiration and vote against it.

At least that's what I take from that.

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

We're not talking about "should," are we?

nyctre ,

My bad. You're right. Then yeah, no, they wouldn't. Cause the message won't reach the most of them. They would care if they understood that these people are survivors of a different fascist government. They're what Palestinians might be 80 years from now. It's history. Except they can learn it from living people instead of books.

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I agree. Also, if I were an Israeli who agreed with the genocide (I'm not and I absolutely don't) and German Holocaust survivors came to me to tell me that they survived a genocide and they know how bad genocide is and this is a genocide and it needs to stop, I would probably think that this is a different situation and they don't know because they don't live here. It's pretty easy to dismiss something like this if you're determined to go ahead with an atrocity.

nyctre ,

Of course. But the more people(and different people too, not just journalists and politicians) tell them, the more likely it is for the message to finally go through

jeena ,
@jeena@jemmy.jeena.net avatar

That's good, I'm just hoping they could go together with the holocaust survivers who live in Israel and be role models there too, god knows we need them there too.

KISSmyOSFeddit ,

I don't believe the Israeli youth have a vote in this week's EU election.

jeena ,
@jeena@jemmy.jeena.net avatar

https://sayingimages.com/wp-content/uploads/facepalm-homer-simpsons-memes-560x420.jpg

KISSmyOSFeddit ,

Homer Simpson isn't an argument. I simply don't follow your lead of framing anything and everything to do with Jewish people against the actions of the Israeli government.
Most Jews don't live in Israel, and (depending on how you count) 1/5 to 1/2 the people living in Israel aren't Jews.

footoro ,

But OP never said Jewish? I don’t know how to interpret the comment given that this is the internet but seemed more like a never again means never again for anyone kind of thing?

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Eight Holocaust survivors have urged young people to shun far-right parties and vote to protect democracy at the upcoming European Union elections.

The letter was published by rights group Avaaz and signed by eight men and women aged between 81 and 102 who witnessed the Holocaust first-hand.

"I know that there was a similar development back then as there is today: a weak democratic government and a party that rallied the people who were dissatisfied," 99-year-old Walter Frankenstein said in a video statement.

Ruth Winkelmann, who hid from the Nazis in a shed with her mother and sister after her father was deported to the Auschwitz concentration camp, said she signed the letter "because the AfD is becoming too strong."

She told the AFP news agency that the far-right party has "quite a lot in common" with the Nazis in the 1930s.

"As a democrat, you should recognize everyone, whether green, white or black, it doesn't matter.

The original article contains 282 words, the summary contains 157 words. Saved 44%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

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