ITT: People really hate elon musk but kind of don't know why, specifically. This tech is outpaced by EEG. This tech is the greatest technological development of all time, but I wish it was under someone else. This guy will die like the monkeys, all the monkeys and pigs died also did you guys hear about this? Did you guys hear?
I think it's a pretty bad demo. As said, EEG is capable of the same thing, intercranial EEG is capable of the same thing, and I'm pretty sure microelectrodes have also already been capable of this for a while. I think generally we've been capable of this sort of stuff since like the 60's or 70's if I'm not mistaken, but nothing ever really comes of it in terms of the commercial market. I think the biggest thing I can think of is probably cochlear implants. I hope somebody corrects me if there's a larger thing that I'm missing there. In any case, this doesn't really show us anything, or provide any real reason for why this is better than your other less invasive alternatives, or even why this is a novel form of BCI. Supposedly this is supposed to be automated, smaller, and cheaper than your alternatives, but it also maybe struggles with differentiating signals, and hasn't shown any major progress towards solving the more major technical hurdles facing the technology as it currently exists. You can't really do a demo based on a solution to both a problem nobody asked for, and you can't do a demo for something which is basically purely for economic and convenience gains. If that's the use-case, it seems like kind of a misunderstanding as to where this technology currently is. BCI, broadly has the potential to do some really cool stuff, but nobody's really solving any of the major bio-compatibility issues. I think you would find more interesting similar work done with wetware and organoids, but those are all in lab settings in highly regulated and normalized environments, so they're still a ways off from consumer use.
Everyone's concerned about computer viruses on these things. I think the main concern is actually regular viruses, no?
Okay, now we need a spider legged chair with wheels in it so he can go solve crimes! With me! I'm going to stop being sick and turn into a crime fighting vixen in Spandex. At least for today. I gotta go back to work tomorrow.
Heads-up, there appears to be some astroturfing going around. This is not an impressive demo, I've seen better without brain implants. If anything, I'm more impressed that the test subject hasn't died yet.
I agree, this is not ground breaking in terms of BCIs (in general, maybe in how intrusive it was compared to standard projects using an EEG). Plenty[1] of YouTube videos on mapping certain brain waves to buttons.
Commenting to remind myself later because I'd love to check into this. My hands are achy from years of overuse, so an alternative to physical controls would be amazing.
At the end of the day this company is pouring a ton of money into a technology that could use it, I'm incredibly excited for the accessibility potentials but just so scared of the malpractices that might (and probably will) be going on. Sadly I think most of the "external" BCIs are in the "study" phase rather than any sort of production. If you do find something that is consumer available, please let me know!
Looks like the headset she's wearing in that video (EPOC X - 14 channel EEG headset) is available from Emotiv for $1k, and the software she's using to map controls (EmotivBCI) is something they provide for free. They have 2 and 5 channel headsets for cheaper and 32 channel caps that are more expensive. Seems pretty consumer-ready to me, but I'm sure your EEG activity data gets shared with Emotiv, which isn't ideal.
Holy shit did Lord Musk invent hand implants? I remember the Over-The-Arm Manipulators patent but I didn't think that OTAM technology would go anywhere.
Got a link to share? Nothing else can do analog inputs like neurolink can, so would love to see this tech that isn’t even been talked about yet that you’re spouting all over this thread.
We've been able to stick an electrode to the outside of your head and pull electrical activity data from your brain without invasive open-skull surgery for a couple decades now. Neuralink hasn't actually accomplished anything new except making this same thing way, way more expensive and way, way more likely to end in death of the patient.
No amount of regulation will ever make this safe or reasonable. You're literally installing a suicide bomb in your brain which can be hacked at any point, or abused by any state. Regulation serves to discourage and punish undesired behavior - doesn't stop it.
Same, being able to do things with your mind would be wonderful but if it comes with cost of potentially handing your own killswitch to ketaminecrazed billionaire.. (or anyone). If the device isnt 100% opensource so anyone can see how it works, there is no way to know what it can do. And even if we assume it wont be used in overtly malicious way, being able to physically affects someone's brain( be it reading or writing) means being able to absolutely control of someone.
They're not being manipulated, though. You can tell because 100% of Neuralink users feel they're not being manipulated at all and that their absolutely fanatical devotion to the company is because it, and its founder Galactic President Musk, are just that great!
even if it were completely F/OSS including the hardware I'm as afraid of a brain accident as I am of someone purposely doing awful shit to my brain. I want what you want too, it's just that there's no world in which that happens.
There is no utopian version as long as we maintain the capitalist system. How long do you think “regulations” can stand against the profit incentive of every conceivable greedy ghoul out there?
Without capitalism we would be free to build any cool technology we desire, with the only motivation being the benefit of humanity and improvement of our daily lives.
Capitalism is a wasteful and nonsensical system that will only guarantee the enslavement and annihilation of human life.
I agree 100%. It wouldn't be easy though. Humans are inherently selfish and greedy. I believe a large minority are borderline sociopathic as well, whether its inherited or learned idk. We need a system that really punishes and limits sociopathic behavior.
Unfortunately but accurately, capitalism rewards sociopathic behavior exponentially, to the point where you have to at least act sociopathic in your decision making to have a very large scale successful business, or at least never/rarely make altruistic decisions. Otherwise, you'll be priced out by competition that does make the more sociopathic decisions (lower pay for workers, dangerous work environments, whatever to cut costs, etc.).
I dont know how we fix this, but it's certainly time for capitalism to die or be reigned in significantly.
Bruh, are you really comparing a digital two input wearable device to an implant with fine analog control? This is the biggest leap in brain to computer interface technology, probably ever.
I hate that Neuralink is associated with Elon and the testing they did on animals as absolutely abhorrent, but this is crazy. The guy has been playing Civ 6 ffs.
Wearing a cap designed to measure brain activity players nod their head or blink their eyes, training the equipment to translate brain patterns associated with those motions into movement on-screen.
They only have a two input system because the experiment was made with two inputs in mind. I've seen a comercial wearable neural sensor in action ~9 years ago, being used in experiments by my colleagues. It can do a lot more than that.
No, which is why people are trying to find better tech.
EEG is limited, it’s why it went nowhere and people try to point to it as this big huge thing…. Technology won’t advance if we just continually stick with the limitations of old tech. Which unfortunately requires experimentation.
Yes, we've had related technology for a long time. I used one when I was a kid years ago to control a cursor through a maze, although with significant effort. And yet, I don't recall seeing any of these systems reliably play complex games like Mario Kart or Civilization...
To say we've had something similar is akin to something like handwaving modern EVs saying we had EVs back in the 90s, but without mentioning they only went 50 miles per charge, took hours to charge, and had significantly fewer charge cycles. Like, why even do that?
I didn't say there's no difference in the technology used. But the results are quite comparable at the moment. Maybe that can be changed and further developed in future. But is much much more dangerous to implant than to put a cap on your head. So I say don't be fooled by the marketing of Neuralink.
Sure absolutely but also it's a bad idea to be disingenuous just because Elon needs a dick. This technology is impressive because it's fully internal. You don't have to wear some massive hat, it's a compact internal design. Does actually show some significant advancement
Bullshit until proven otherwise. Dangerous and stupid regardless. And a depressing harbinger of the corpo cyberpunk dystopia whether this is real or totally faked.
I agree with your take on the corpo dystopia issue and would prefer other solutions instead of this but the sort of patients being served definitely need some significant support.
Mutahar made a video about this that gives us a rough outline of where we are at with this technology, and I agree with his opinion about using eye trackers instead of brain implants for the sort of feature they seem to provide.
It's not even an either-or, there are WEARABLE neural sensors which don't need to be installed inside your skull and can still read your brain patterns. This is clearly a kill button for the rich fucks to install in workers' slaves' heads.
Watching the video seems better than reading an article since you get to hear from the patient. It's in the article, but they posted a Twitter video link.
Yeah, all of this news sounds cool, but I'm skeptical when all we hear is good things, especially after such tumultuous monkey trials.
I'm just waiting for a whistle blower to dump a bunch of evidence a decade from now showing all the horrific Unit 731- esque shit they're currently covering up in the name of science. But by that point we'll be receiving all our news directly into our cerebral cortex using "Musk-X" brand implants, so it will never be seen or reported on. And yes, even the poors have them; their units are subsidized by the unavoidable ads being drilled directly into their subconscious.
All you folks with kids have such a bright future for them to look forward to!
I genuinely hope this works out for this guy, and everyone else who could benefit from it. This dude volunteered because basically he might as well risk dying in return for a meaningful quality of life. That's an awful situation to be in.
But the fact is, Musk is a self absorbed narcissistic conman, and he has never taken his customers safety seriously in any of his businesses. You don't beta test self driving cars on public roads if you care about people's lives.
This is CERTAINLY not going to work well. There's NO benefit to having a chip inside people's brains when we already have the tech to read brain patterns from outside the skull. They could've spent their time and money making the algorithms for that type of sensor better. Instead, they've developed a way to kill disobedient slaves.
To my knowledge these people are volunteers. Nobody is forcing them into it. If they're paralyzed from neck down but can now control computer using their mind I'd imagine they're probably quite happy about it don't you think?
