I don't think people understand how much of food pricing is because of a perverse complex system that ensures profits because we've gotten to post-scarcity on some goods. Like milk. It's only not oversupplied and worthless because we break everything to stop it.
@thoughtpunks
So while the first bit is true about the perverse complex system setting food prices that don't make supply/demand sense, you're not post scarcity on milk.
@thoughtpunks
The colonial core presently has an abundance of dairy because its depriving the rest of the world of resources and digging its own grave with cattle. So its not so much post scarcity as it is that the major fraction of all cows milk that will ever be produced on Earth is being produced all at once and in a few small areas, and you're paying for it in human blood (also many other creatures' blood).
Sorry, post scarcity is just a real specific term for not what you have.
@bigtuffal That's exaggerated framing at least. Beef is the great poison in the pool. It causes the vast bulk of cattle harms and dairies in the beef cycle are notably less productive and more impactful.
Brazil is being devastated for beef. The dairy production is only incidental.
@bigtuffal apart from that, just noting that "post-scarcity" for a good or class of goods is a somewhat related condition [and prerequisite for] but distinct from a societal status of "post-scarcity". Also worth noting the emissions for this specific good can be offset through reductions in much more polluting sectors, as well as the availability of strategies not practical in the pseudo-open market to reduce impacts & increase yields.
@bigtuffal OK, yeah, you've seen what I mean! Just to be clear I don't mean "offsets" in the sense of terrible carbon credits. I mean "offsets" in the sense of where we can get reductions in our carbon budget. Dairy is just pretty minor compared to other sources and produces a cheap source of protein and nutrition. BTW tangent on the image, it's pretty wild how intensive sheep farming is, but it maintains a folksy veneer.
@bigtuffal and thanks for being open to the discussion! I mean, I DO understand why dairy gets lumped in. About half the dairies in the world are part of the beef cycle. Which IS a big problem. But it's more how we manage cattle and the beef usage than inherent to dairy production. Maintaining beef market means not using the best breeds and methods for dairy, for example. [Similarly, biofuel obsessions and mandates are a poor partner for grain production, significantly bumping impact.]
@bigtuffal being constructive but practical, my solution would be buying out abundant industries more or less. Reorg farms as democratic worker coops with management salary caps, work standards, etc. Compensate current owners with lease payments for the land, herds, and starting equipment. Tax break longer shelf life and shelf stable goods for food processors. Periodically buy stable surplus for food banks and aid. There's other variations. But we can enable abundance.
@bigtuffal and for the concerns raised, a big part of the benefit is being able to use more efficient and less harmful practices without worrying about profit motive and/or price crashes. Basically just pay people fair wages to produce those abundance-possible goods and let them democratically manage their workplaces. If they don't have to worry about the price supporting them, there's no perverse incentive to limit supply or price collude. Or cut $$$ corners on animal welfare and enviro impact.
@bigtuffal there's a lot of complexities and the general discourse doesn't lend itself well outside the broadest strokes. It doesn't help that we just assume we'll let the system run like it is now.
Sure, competitive farmers can't survive if we don't. But why do we need competitive farmers if there's no scarce good? Why should the whole population find FOOD of all things less affordable to prop up a small minority of producers and rentiers?
It's already stupidly "socialized" with price controls, price supports, supply controls, subsidies, complex tax laws, and oh my. It's A LOT. So instead of enriching the richest with the social investment, let's just make worker coops with guaranteed wages and democratic management. Cheaper for all.
Which leads to a weird thing about how the people supposedly most concerned about government spending and efficiency care least about it. Support workers for abundant goods. Tax land instead of houses. Give the homeless actual housing [not "shelter"]. All way more efficient & productive.