David Littleproud has indeed very little to be proud of.
When he says; "The Israeli government is only doing what its people are expecting of them.” does he really think this makes it ok to kill civilians, aid workers and little children?
@DropBear@Spoon 💯 Israeli society seems to have an insatiable desire for bloodshed and carnage.
Nochi Mendel, the IDF guy responsible for the killing of the World Central Kitchen aid workers, received a thank you letter and a box of chocolates from his settler community.
@DropBear This is the point, though, isn't it: the characters are attracted there, not born there, just claiming the right to be there. That in itself suggests a certain excessively entitled mentality.
It is a very jaundiced view of history to claim Palestine for the Jews.
Palestine is the historical home, from time to time, of the Semites amongst whom are jews, Palestinians and others.
Palestine was never the home of adherents of one religion until 1947 and this decision was taken in London where many colonialist false borders have been drawn.
Colonialist hubris has led to many wars and has always created more problems than it solved.
Before 1947 the Stern Gang, a terrorist organisation, fought in Palestine killing many Palestinians.
This history is never acknowledged today and in fact most people are unaware of it.
It's a bit awkward really because terrorism is always reserved for others, not 'our' side.
@Spoon
Reading far too much Leon Uris in my younger days, my introduction to the history was the alternative history that underpins Israeli Zionism. Realising the carefully crafted deceit came slowly.
I was recently challenged to deny that Jews are "indigenous" to the area. My response that there are Moslems, Jews and Christians who are indigenous was met with an assertion that Jews were there "first".
The region being a route from Africa to Europe, there's evidence of modern humans in the area 120,000 years ago. Judaism hasn't existed that long.
Before that, there were other hominids. The earliest remains are estimated to be 1.5 million years old.
@Spoon@mativity@palestine@DropBear if Christianity and Islam derived from Judaism as Abrahamic religions, then at that time, they must all have been the same peoples. That one group left while the others remained, does not entitle them to any more claim to being indigenous.
The concept of cultural vs genetic derivation makes this a bit less clear. I’m no expert, if any of this is inaccurate, I’m keen to hear it. #auspol#religion
Israeli Zionism has little to do with religion @Jakra
They use "Jewish" as a label for their in-group and exploit Jewish mythology for their 'hasbara', but they're just as comfortable beating up Orthodox Jews as they are killing Palestinians.
"Palestinians are the primary resistors and victims of zionism, but Jews are targets too. Israel had to be built on the ruins of worlds Jews were part of long before zionism,"
Firstly the notion that being anti Zionist is being anti semitic is itself anti semitic.
Zionism is a political belief not a religious belief and this business of the 3 religions being Abrahamic is, at best, a misconception.
Christianity spread via the Roman Empire especially when the capital was Constantinople.
Islam spread in the Arabic world amongst those who were predominantly Zoroastrian.
At no time was there mass conversation from Judaism to Christianity or Islam or any other combination.
Many of the misconceptions are due to white supremacist influence on 'history'.
The most poorly understood process was the development of religion, philosophy, mathematics and cosmology all of which originate from Egypt rather than Greece.
The problem here is that the Egyptians were rather awkwardly black Africans.
Thanks I have. The Phonecians originated the alphabet and usable numbering. Interestingly using the 'pythagoras' theorem a thousand years before Pythagoras.
I have not tried to write a book here mostly because the books have already been written far better than I could.
If you have not already done so, read Black Athena by Martin Bernal. Very enlightening.
In essence I can agree with your propositions, in details not so…
For example:
Were peoples in ‘Arabic world’ before Islam “predominantly Zoroastrian”?
The Egyptians (among several ancient civilisations developed science & culture before the Greeks) have been not always regarded as “black Africans”? The notion and disputes came first in 18th C. or like.
In essence I can agree with your propositions, only in details… 😉
For example:
Were peoples in ‘Arabic world’ before Islam “predominantly Zoroastrian”?
The Egyptians (among several ancient civilisations developed science & culture before the Greeks) have been not always regarded as “black Africans”, I suppose. The notion and disputes came first in 18th C. or like?
You're quite right. I have skimmed over several thousand years and therefore I have made many generalisations. Of course there were religions other than Zoroastrian. Some of them were interestingly communist - with the accent on 'commune'.
One important omission is how convenient monotheism is for autocratic rulers. Being the holders of the keys to eternity was pretty handy. The pharoah Akhenaten is the first incidence of this that we know of. He was quite prepared to despoil an entire nation establishing himself as the Aten, the only path to Ra the sun god.