RememberTheApollo_ ,

It’s gone from keeping the government in check to keeping gays, trans, women, people with darker skin, liberals, etc in check. The guns are there to enforce their wannabe theofascist rule, not defend democracy.

masquenox ,

And here we go... liberals doing what they have always done - gaslighting everyone that's actually willing to stand up to fascism.

OP's nic is perfectly apt.

Mango ,

Population guerilla time.

vegantomato ,
@vegantomato@lemmy.world avatar

I don't know what you mean by "all these guns". There is no problem with a law-abiding citizen owning guns and rifles if they store them properly and have undergone basic training. If you are referring to criminals, then they will still be owning arms regardless if civilians are turned into sitting ducks by being disarmed or not.

RaoulDook ,

Yeah well it did actually work out pretty well for the BLM protestors who armed themselves. The police were scared and left them alone, see this article: https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN24604N/

Not_mikey ,

Why does this prove it worked? Because they weren't beaten or assaulted? Most protests , even BLM ones, don't involve police brutality.

SkippingRelax ,

Your logic is ruining a good story stop it

hannes3120 ,

In some European countries the police isn't even armed since noone has guns

sbv ,

And there have been a tonne of revolutions in Europe over the past fifty years.

It's almost as if guns and revolutions are unrelated.

Gradually_Adjusting ,
@Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.ca avatar

Could you imagine if America had a revolution? I might move back.

sbv ,

I feel like the revolution could go in any direction at this point.

Gradually_Adjusting ,
@Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.ca avatar

I was being fatuous, such a prospect is more than half of why I left

EdibleFriend ,
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

The people who think having guns keep the government in check are the exact same people jacking off to the thin blue line.

shalafi ,

I'm a liberal gun nut who loathes the police and believes the government is held in check by our guns.

If you think the American government is fascist now, how do you think they would act if they could storm any home and be certain to only find defenseless people? Think police are beating our asses, with impunity, in the streets as is? Imagine what they would do if they had zero fear of the populace.

EdibleFriend ,
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

Don't get me wrong. I am not anti gun either. I have owned a few in my life, only reason I don't right now is because I had to sell them due to financial reasons.

But, yes. The people who are crazy gun types are also the people who jack off to the thought of the police having military hardware because they think the police are only going to use them on black people. Simple as that.

A_cook_not_a_chef ,

This is exactly why the Black Panthers were formed. And they worked. So well that the government took them down.

aodhsishaj ,

Some supporting arguments

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/00027162231156292

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/the-long-tension-between-the-second-amendment-and-black-gun-ownership/2021/06/23/e48626c4-c2f9-11eb-93f5-ee9558eecf4b_story.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

yesman OP ,

It's almost like the guns didn't help.

VinnyDaCat ,

Yeah, but it was the government against a marginalized group of people, not the government against its entire citizenry.

I don't think our lax gun laws would matter in that situation though. If the government ever decides to push people to revolution there would surely be many people in the military who would join the people's cause, giving them access to what they need to fight.

aodhsishaj , (edited )

I am also a leftist gun nut, and Breonna Taylor proved they can already storm your home, and since they assume every citizen is armed they storm accordingly with common entry tactics. Charge the door, throw ordnance (flash bangs in her case), scream conflicting commands and then shoot anything that moves.

I'm still a big proponent of an armed citizenry, the first gun control laws came about in California from a very frightened Reagan after the Black Panthers exercised their 2nd amendment rights.

Guns however will never de-escalate a situation trust me. They can end a situation due to an over abundance of force.

Kalkaline ,
@Kalkaline@leminal.space avatar

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    aodhsishaj ,

    Edited, thank you for the correction

    yesman OP ,

    Have you considered that that "fear of the populace" is an aggravating factor in police use of deadly force?

    "They've got a gun" is license to kill Americans.

    If the guns can protect people from the State, why don't they?

    Fuckfuckmyfuckingass ,
    @Fuckfuckmyfuckingass@lemmy.world avatar

    As another lefty gun nut, the thing I think folks forget about resisting the gov with arms, is there are worse fates than dying in a gun fight.

    RedAggroBest ,

    I grew up in rural Arizona where everyone I grew up with knows I'm a hard leftist.

    I don't have guns to defend me from the govt nowadays. Now its because too many idiots unwaveringly support a dementia-addled fascist. All it takes it the wrong person telling a couple others my views and then Trump going on TV and saying how he thinks liberals (anyone left of his people) should be dragged into the streets. You think I'm gonna call the cops? I know we don't trust them here, and those cops might be that "wrong person" in the first place.

    Not_mikey ,

    The police aren't afraid of the populace, and any fear they may have or that may be inspired by increased gun ownership isn't going to manifest itself in de-escalation and them using a lighter hand, they're cops they know in the game of escalation they have the full force of the state behind them and will win.

    Unless you have some other organization that is powerful and organized enough to contend with the state cops aren't going to back down, and at that point we're talking about a well regulated militia and not individual ownership.

    Dagwood222 ,

    It's 2024. They can cut off your power and internet, freeze your bank accounts, and send in drones.

    That's without them bringing in 'civilian contractors.'

    Pretty much every time I get into this with a proponent of armed resistance they fall back on the line 'American soldiers won't kill American citizens."

    Nachorella ,

    The American government spends trillions on the military, if you think your guns are going to stop fascists you're probably mistaken.

    ikidd ,
    @ikidd@lemmy.world avatar

    It's going to make the ones breaking down doors nervous as hell.

    SkippingRelax ,

    And shoot straight away while you are still sleeping. Great strategy.

    GoodStuffEh ,

    Um... Let's take a quick look at the American military's track record real quick... They tend to lose when fighting a decentralized, insurgent force (VC, Taliban) which is exactly what the citizenry of the US would turn into if the government turned on the population. Not to mention, a ton of military personnel would hold the same values of said insurgency, meaning that, at best, some would think twice before attacking, and at worst they'll defect, bringing millions worth of fancy kit to the other side. I don't have a dog in this race (not American) but I think it's ridiculous to underestimate the capabilities of an angry populace.

    Nachorella ,

    Those are pretty good points actually, thanks for taking the time.

    SkippingRelax ,

    Wtf reddit was a cesspit of right wing pro guns nuts, this is even worse. Deluded little men.

    Meanwhile kids die every week so people can fuel whatever delusion they have, on both sides of politics

    SkippingRelax ,

    If you think the American government is fascist now, how do you think they would act if they could storm any home and be certain to only find defenseless people?

    Exactly the same, my friend. But if that helps you feel important go ahead polishing your big guns, it's not like the US has a gun control issue anyway amiright?

    surewhynotlem ,

    act if they could storm any home and be certain to only find defenseless people?

    They already can.

    Kalkaline ,
    @Kalkaline@leminal.space avatar

    Breonna Taylor, Philando Castile, Charles Kinsey

    PoliticalAgitator ,

    When should they have fired on police with their super cool guns and what would the outcome have been?

    SmilingSolaris ,

    They already do though. They just do it with an insane amount of overwhelming firepower like flash bangs. Guns can't keep them in check if the state both has a monopoly of violence and the willingness to spend any amount of money to keep it.

    PoliticalAgitator ,

    Oh get fucked already. America is closer to fascism than any comparable country. Your guns have done nothing except given cops the excuse they need to execute people in the street and you're never going to shoot a cop.

    electric_nan ,

    The government is not "held in check" at all.

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