I like that, as a nation, we are admitting that we'll enable the killing of innocent children. It's important to be honest with ourselves about who we are as a country.
I'm just excited for Trump to win and "Those stupid leftists who didn't vote for Trump" to be the cause, when all the conservative/centrist voters Biden picked up in 2020 abandon him in 2024 over the economy or Hunter Biden's dick or his emails.
Which is weird because I didn't mention voting. America's been doing this shit since before I was born, let alone since before I could vote. It's in our bones.
You don't get to vote to not kill children here. Just how many children we kill and how bad we pretend to feel about it.
And I actually agree with the link: Vote for the person you want to be your enemy. If it's gonna be a frail old man I'll take the one who's not a fascist. But I've given up on ever being happy about the choice, or ashamed of my country.
Yes, the US government's policy is and always has been to support genocidal Israel. That's why Palestine is on both tracks. There is absolutely nothing voters can do to change this any time soon. You should be focusing on who you can save, rather than who you can't.
I hope this post gets a lot of tankie comments. They’ll be flockin’ to a blockin’
Heh. See, cause. It rhymes. So.
The one yesterday had that commenter who was all “what’s this? Oh it took me a second cause I blocked all the tankies” and that’s when I realized I forgot to block lemmy.ml. Now that that’s done, it’s just onsie-twosies. It’s a bright, bright sunshiney day.
It's debatable if morality is even "inherent" to existence. I'd argue morality is a relative construct, but that's besides the point.
I was speaking in regards to the options presented. And as such, I know of no amount of genocide that could be called "moral". Thus my correction to your assertion, as the options presented only allow for "more or less genocide".
Modern Leftism: Standing off to the side and doing nothing while watching a trolley plow through a crowd of people and then laying down judgment on the people that are actually doing something to save as many people as possible.
Can you tell me which pro-Palestinian advocacy groups informed your opinion? Clearly you follow many people who are doing the work, and are not some online ghoul saying civilians had it coming, so I'd love to learn more.
The Palestinian movement is fundamentally compromised. After October 7, it was imperative that as many Palestinians as possible denounce Hamas to make it clear that Hamas doesn't represent them.
Unfortunately this didn't happen. Sure a few people here and there said a few words against what Hamas did. But it's not the consensus among pro-Palestinian groups that what Hamas did was wrong.
This means that Hamas is currently inseparable from the Palestinian movement. Which means the Palestinian movement is not a non-violent resistance movement. At almost every protest you can see people cosplaying as Hamas. There are some even saying October 7 was justified. It is a violent movement which tolerates genocide, as long as it's their side doing the genocide.
The Palestinian movement simply doesn't have the moral high ground. It's now mostly about rationalizing why the genocide that occurred on October 7 was justified by claiming Israel is committing genocide and using "both sides" style logic. If both sides were actually committing genocide then a rational person wouldn't support either side. But we see pro Palestinian groups rationalizing the genocide Hamas committed which makes their false claims of Israel committing genocide a moot point. Even if Israel were committing genocide it doesn't make the nature of the present day Palestinian movement any better because Hamas committed genocide and Palestinians are unwilling to abandon Hamas.
It's largely a hate movement now. Hatred makes people feel strong, but in reality it just makes people stupid. It's why these movements ultimately fail. Too blinded by hatred to to make rational decisions about what's in the movement's best interests. Do you think the movement becoming more antisemitic every day is going to make it successful? Do you think denying the antisemitism will convince anyone outside this group? Nope. Stupid things are being done in hatred by the Palestinian movement right now.
And that's why the Palestinian movement will fail. Too much hatred making people act stupid. Even if there were a Palestinian state tomorrow it would be a failed state. Too much hatred and therefore too much stupidity to make things work.
I hope someday Palestinians can see what their hatred is doing to them. Then a Palestinian state could work. But I don't have much hope that it will happen in this generation. It doesn't matter if the hatred is justified or not. Hatred will always make people stupid and stupidity will always result in failure.
The electoral college indeed sucks. But it's a moot point because leftists will never get off their high horses to actually vote not matter what the system is.
Modern Leftism: I don't want to have a senile, racist, rapist, right-wing, war criminal, genocidair as president that will continue building a border wall and arming and funding genocide.
Liberals: BUT HAVE YOU CONSIDERED HOW MUCH WORSE IT WOULD BE IF HE HAD AN ORANGE SPRAY TAN!!!! TANKIE SCUM!!!!!
Or we're just demanding the Democrats at the very least, the minimum really, don't support a genocide. The bar is so low it's in hell. If Biden can't clear that it's because he doesn't want to.
You're a "domestic terrorist" and most likely already tied down to the middle track. You might also get tied down to the top rail - it depends slightly what you yell when attack.
But if that elepant and donkey are capable of tying down all those other people, they're not going to let you derail them.
The only way Biden will stop genociding Gazans is if there are electoral consequences for him, and you're asking us to not give him any electoral consequences.
The only electoral consequences you can give him is removing him from power and putting Trump in, ensuring that Trump will be the one genociding Gazans.
The American system of elections is old and it is apparent the Founding Fathers had no Idea as to how the game theory of elections would play out. Worse, they even picked a system of government that was more prone to a two party system than the United Kingdom due to the direct election of the Executive and the inbuilt separation of the Executive and Legislative branches.
Israel, as genocidal as it is, has a system which encourages minor parties to get elected. There are 16 parties elected to the Knesset out of 120 total seats. However, Israel has a unicameral legislature, there are no individual districts or constituencies, and the legislature selects the head of government.
If your point is that the American system is fucked, we all know. We've known for decades. We're trying to fix it, but progress is basically nonexistent, because every politician who is currently elected benefits from our fucked system. Trying to get to a parliamentary system, like most developed real democracies, is almost entirely out of reach. Just getting ranked choice voting is like pulling teeth, and we'll have to create a brand new party to have politicians free from corporate interests.
I will have to fight all my life to enact positive change in this country, all because a bunch of rich white assholes who came to power long before I was born have stolen my future from me. Don't belittle us, mourn for us and never, ever repeat our mistakes.
It's also a legitimate request to be fair. I don't really have time to explain the entire political situation of the US and why it's not viable to change it through individual voting to this person, but they clearly don't understand enough about it if they're making silly remarks like this.
Its crazy how both parties are heavily invested in killing Palestinians.
Also crazy how Democrats take no credit for persecuting BLM, despite the fact that Obama's FBI was neck deep in that shit for two years before he left office.
Jesus, you've got some tired, made up bullshit without citations in this thread too just like the other one I saw your propaganda driving ass in, don't you?
Don't play the fucking "both sides" shit here.
The facts and truth of the matter, with quotes, documentation, video and audio evidence, is that trump and high ranking members of the GOP are 100% on board with genociding Palestine. They're encouraging Bibi to go further, not stop/slow like Biden's been doing.
There's no world we live in where electing anyone in the GOP, or worst of all, some fuckhead like trump; will make the situation for the Palestinians any better. It will absolutely make it worse for them for significantly longer than it would with a democratic majority/presidency.
Go ahead and get me a list of trump quotes, or any quotes from the GOP that have them talking Israel down from their genocide instead of doubling, tripling, or quadrupling down on backing what Israel is doing today.
FFS man, there's even a fucking top GOP Senator that's seriously suggesting that Israel nuke Palestine. And that's just the low hanging fruit that's out there. There's dozens and dozens of quotes from members of the GOP calling for genocide using those exact words, saying Israel isn't going far enough.
So get the fuck out of here with your "both sides" rhetoric and bullshit.
How is voting for a marginal unknown 3rd candidate going to upend the US electoral system, I'm so curious...
Instead of dreaming look at the general population. How many people who vote do you think actually care about this. Sure they might not like the politicians but do they actually want to change the system? I don't think so.
You know the real solution to the trolley problem that is used in real life? Purposeful derailment. You let the front wheels go down one side, then flip the switch, and the back wheels follow the other path, which derails the trolley.
It either kills everyone, or saves everyone. And then you can figure out a better option as you untie your rail prisoners.
The let it burn and start over crowd are in this third category. The vote for Mickey Mouse crowd is not.
One of the people you can vote for, will throw the trolley and start a revolution. The other will maintain the status quo, which is shit. A useful idiot, is still useful.
I've seen the writing on the wall for a while. I've divested and left. I am now waiting for the collapse and the quicker the better so the split of the nation and restructuring can start. Limping along on life support is not helping.
I have never heard of this and it sounds insane. You wouldn't kill everyone or no one, you'd probably kill everyone and the people on the train too. When I look up purposeful derailment the only incident I find is that crazy guy who crashed two trains into each other for fun killing some spectators.
Edit: hey more googling. You could argue it happened once and calling it a "trolley problem " is generous. The incident I'm finding was a runaway train in Australia. A runaway train is a lot different and usually they don't try to fix them like that, but by applying the brakes. It's also worth mentioning it was a "controlled" derailment and not just some guy flipping on Deja Vu as he sees if he can emulate initial D. There was no one in the area. Also in general I feel the trolley analogy has long fallen apart at this point.
I used to wonder if there was any line that people wouldn't cross with lesser-evilism, but now that I've seen all these takes just openly being like, "Yes, we're doing genocide, and if you break ranks over that, not only are you a bad person, but your behavior is only possibly explainable by you being a foreign agent or a conservative in disguise," and honestly it's pretty validating to know that yes, I was right all along that accepting that line of reasoning would lead to complete insanity with no limit on how extreme it could get. Like I've never voted for a major party presidential candidate because of that sort of thing but even I never expected the discourse to reach this level, and now that I've seen it play out I'm very glad I decided to distance myself from it. This is what zero principles does to a mfer.
It's really hard to see. Hearing that it doesn't matter that Biden supports Israel's genocide in Palestine because Trump would too is a bad take. It mattered to the thousands of people that have died. It matters to their families. It matters to their friends. So many of Biden's bad policies are just unforced errors. He doesn't have to be an unappealing candidate. He chooses to be an unappealing candidate. If he loses to Trump, that will be why. It'll be 2016 all over again. The genocide in Palestine is Biden's equivalent of just not setting foot in Michigan. And they'll blame voters, primarily independents and leftists (they already are), just like Hillary did, but ever think about what they could have done differently or better.
