Anyone Else Noticing Increasingly Conservative Commentary from Outside Instances?

In the past few weeks I feel like I've seen a lot more conservative comments being posted on Beehaw. Where before it seemed like occasionally some dazed right-winger would wander through now and then, it now seems a bit more like they specifically show up to any thread that brushes up against one of their pet issues.

The most recent example I've noticed is around the stuff with the Ladybird devs being weird about being asked to use inclusive pronouns, but it seems like a pattern.

Has anyone else noticed this? Any thoughts on a course of action other than blocking them all individually or reporting particularly grievous examples?

I really would be disappointed to see every single thread here slowly inundated with pettiness and hate.

Quexotic ,
@Quexotic@beehaw.org avatar

Maybe it's appropriate and not just coincidence that I saw this post https://beehaw.org/post/14861248 so close to yours. Maybe it's an explanation for what you think maybe it's not who am I to know

hazelnoot ,
@hazelnoot@beehaw.org avatar

honestly, it feels like the Threadiverse is slowly turning into Reddit (in a bad way). There's so much toxicity and right-wing talking points all over the network. You can see it in nearly every community, on many different instances.

storksforlegs ,
@storksforlegs@beehaw.org avatar

It's ramping up absolutely everywhere.

Even in niche hobby subreddits (the only subs I still use) keep shoehorning political takes. The trolls and bots are cranking it up everywhere, it's like they want it to be inescapable

intensely_human ,

I really would be disappointed to see every single thread here slowly inundated with pettiness and hate.

Then maybe reconsider your default response to outside views of:

blocking them all individually or reporting particularly grievous examples

Just a thought

Lionir ,
@Lionir@beehaw.org avatar

Honestly, I agree. I've cleaned up the thread a bit but it still seems pretty nasty.

I've personally had the opinion that we should go for a more isolationist approach with an allow-list when we move away from Lemmy and into Sublinks. I think it's worth trying.

Personally, I really wish we could have an invite system, I feel like it'd be better than asking a friend to fill a form - that feels a bit rough. It would also encourage word of mouth and organic growth imo. And people tend to have likeminded friends so it would probably help form culture.

As a side note, I think we need some new blood in moderation teams, I think some people have moved on.

off_brand_ ,

Ah! I seem to have missed the sublinks-chatter. Good to hear there's an alternative in flight. I assumed after the money-related-tomfoolery that the talks to migrate to a new platform were on hold indefinitely.

UngodlyAudrey Mod ,
@UngodlyAudrey@beehaw.org avatar

I've always favored a smaller pool of federated servers. I know it sounds gatekeepy, but I'd go as far as not federating with any server that doesn't require an application to join. There's not that many Beeple, and it wouldn't take very much for someone hostile to our ideals to overwhelm us with sheer numbers. Just adding that little bit of friction should help immensely for maintaining our culture.

Of course, I don't expect this sentiment would be too popular, after all, there's a large contingent of users who want the biggest Threadiverse they can get. Furthermore, we'd get cut off from a bunch of communities if we did this. Perhaps we could consider a few more in house communities should we decide to go more isolationist.

BubbleMonkey ,
@BubbleMonkey@slrpnk.net avatar

If you go with the invite approach, I would desperately like to join you despite not being on beehaw itself at the moment. I was actually planning to sign up for the ultra-curated experience, after finding that both “uncurated” and “lightly curated” are not awesome for me, but then I came across this info a few days back, and figured I should hold off; Idk what your policy is at the moment for taking new users if you plan to move.

Increasingly I’m disenchanted with Lemmy as a whole, it doesn’t feel welcoming or communal, and would like to go with you when you move to a different fedi platform, but because I’m not part of your server now, I have no idea when that’s going to happen or anything. And I don’t want to miss out :(

Aloomineum ,

Yeah I just blocked the free and open source software page because of the type of conversations they are having and the amount of people "dunking" on boogeymans like SJWs and "wokeness". Yuck.

millie OP ,

I don't like the idea of blocking a Beehaw community, especially one I actually use, but honestly I might do the same if it keeps up. It's a bummer.

Aloomineum ,

I agree, it is unfortunate it came to that. I really wanted to keep that community in my feed because there is a lot of content worth checking out from there. Ultimately I operate on a 3 strikes policy, and they crossed it so out they go.

The_Sasswagon ,

Along with potential reasons mentioned in this post, right wing folks also have fewer obvious places to go troll now that twitter is just filled with them and Hershey's or whatever. Perhaps they are coming here looking for trouble specifically.

It's also possible they've always been here and have just found more reasons to engage recently. Either way, the amount of bad faith discussion and derisive language is frustrating and upsetting.

I have just been blocking individuals if I find myself getting frustrated, but I also took a long break from social media because I felt like the discussions about Gaza were bordering toxic, so I'm not sure my approach is sustainable.

localhost ,

The most recent example I’ve noticed is around the stuff with the Ladybird devs being weird about being asked to use inclusive pronouns, but it seems like a pattern.

You mean the thread where you out of nowhere called the maintainers "incels, transphobes, and racists" over singular instance of them using "he/him" as a gender-neutral pronouns in documentation and refusing to change it?

millie OP ,

See this post? This post is what I'm talking about. This is weird.

localhost ,

When I created an account here, I thought Beehaw is specifically a platform where throwing vitriol unnecessarily is discouraged.

Non-native speaker being stubborn about not using "they/them" in gender-neutral contexts (especially when most if not all of these weren't even about people) is not enough to label them as neither incel, transphobe, nor racist.

Intentionally mischaracterizing other human beings and calling them derogatory names that they don't deserve is, in my opinion, against the spirit of the platform.

millie OP ,

I'm not intentionally mischaracterizing anyone, or for that matter unintentionally mischaracterizing them.

My takeaway from reading the post and looking at their comments on Github is that the developers have a disdain for women, a disdain for trans folks, and a disdain for anyone who doesn't look like them. They do not want to have to think about anyone else at all, and they make it very clear.

I don't know what to tell you other than go read it yourself. If you don't come to the same conclusions, we're probably very different people who see the world very differently.

Personally, when I see the kinds of responses yourself and others have made to that topic of discussion, it feels to me like you haven't actually done any of the reading.

localhost ,

I have read the blog post that you've linked, which is full of exaggeration.

The developer rejected PR that changed documentation to use one instance of they/them instead of he/him, responded "This project is not an appropriate arena to advertise your personal politics.", and then promptly got brigaded. Similar PRs were appearing and getting closed from time to time.

A satirical PR has been opened and closed for being spam - despite the blogger's commentary, it's abundantly clear that the developer didn't call the person opening the PR a "spam" (what would that even mean?).

The project also had code of conduct modified, probably due to the brigading, to essentially include the aforementioned "not an appropriate arena to advertise your personal politics or religious beliefs" line - I don't know what part of this is for the blogger a "white supremacist" language.

From what I can tell, this is all they've done. No racism, no sexism, no white supremacy. Would it be better if they just accepted the PR? Yes. Does it make the developer part of one of the worst groups of people that ever existed? No.

UngodlyAudrey Mod ,
@UngodlyAudrey@beehaw.org avatar

If you want to discuss the merits (or dismerits) of the Ladybird dev, I ask that both of you please keep it in the other thread. You're getting off topic here.

Lionir ,
@Lionir@beehaw.org avatar

Bringing this topic back up here in this manner is really inappropriate.

localhost ,

Both threads appeared on my feed near one another and I figured it was on topic given that the other one is directly referenced in the main post here. If OP can reference another post to complain about hate, I think it's fair game for me to truthfully add that their conduct in the very same thread was also excessively hateful - how else are we to discuss the main subject of this post at all otherwise?

Penguincoder ,
@Penguincoder@beehaw.org avatar

Two wrongs do not make a right. Ad hominem is not a discussion.

intensely_human ,

This isn’t about establishing a right, but providing information on a possible path out of the hatred: self reflection and self improvement, to start with one’s own hatred.

It’s the most reliable path out, because a person actually can change themselves.

SimplyTadpole ,
@SimplyTadpole@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who noticed... it's disheartening and frustrating.

Recant ,
@Recant@beehaw.org avatar

As the original poster for the ladybird post, I never expected the conversation to get so far off track from "this open source project receiving funding and thus have a better chance of success"

Yet here we are

Luci ,
@Luci@lemmy.ca avatar

I think it might just be lurkers who have finally found something to post on, but who knows. But with the ladybird posts it does feel like outside influence. A lot of replies in my post were from brand new accounts.

auk , (edited )

I made !pleasantpolitics for this exact reason. I wouldn't describe the influx of shit opinions as exclusively conservative, but it's definitely an influx, and it definitely requires some type of different reaction than the four unsatisfying horsemen of blocking, defederating, replying to each one until your fingers start to hurt, or seething silently. And every so often having a moderator delete one explicitly racist comment isn't the answer.

The model I am trying to make is that if you're consistently getting downvotes from trusted members of the community, out you go. The theory is that that will make the whole thing less excruciating. You can look more about it at !santabot. I don't know if it it going to work. But something must be done.

Edit: Fixed the link. There is no Pleastant Politics.

tektite ,

You've got a typo in your community name

!pleasantpolitics

auk ,

Fixed, thank you.

tmpod ,
@tmpod@lemmy.pt avatar

Oh that's an interesting tool. I've been thinking of working on something like that, but it seems someone has put in the work already, neat! I will be paying attention at that experimental community, seems promising.

t3rmit3 ,

Yeah, the ladybird thread turned into a tech-bro dumpster fire.

renard_roux ,

That's the one that caught my eye, too.

ICastFist ,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

It was an overreaction on both sides. Kling's reason to deny the original PR was stupid, but going after him with metaphorical torches and pitchforks, 3 years after the fact, and expecting a civil response is even stupider. Opening issues and commenting just to complain about the noun usage is a lose-lose situation and bound to attract the worst people to defend Kling's "don't bring your political agenda here" point.

Here's another example of unnecessary drama.

bl_r ,

I’ve noticed a few things here and there, especially when joining in on news threads on .world

It’s mind blowing how racist I’ve seen people be, and I’ve seen some wild anti-queer stances too.

averyminya ,

.world is awful. I honestly think it is legitimately worse than r/All of Reddit, even today.

At least the actual people on r/All are there for entertainment and fun.

UngodlyAudrey Mod ,
@UngodlyAudrey@beehaw.org avatar

It definitely seems like it. There's also been surprisingly high amounts of upvotes on questionable comments lately. I wouldn't be surprised if lemmy as a whole is getting astroturfed, but I can't say that for certain because I rarely venture out of Beehaw. Don't be afraid to make a report if you see something.

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