MehBlah ,

Its a taxi with extra steps.

Test_Tickles ,

And less safety.

CaptnNMorgan ,

But you get to know how much you're paying before you even confirm it

Stupidmanager ,

Most taxis have that now too, and you can ask for the flat rate too. most drivers will quote you on longer trips exactly the price.

CaptnNMorgan ,

I'm not even sure if we have taxi's where I live, I don't think I've seen one irl except for the few times I went to Chicago.

Muscar ,

Less safe how? Not trying to disagree at all, I only have surface-level knowledge about any of this so I just want to know the reasons. I've had friends with REALLY bad experiences from illegal/underground taxis before Uber etc was a thing but none I can think of since then. I'm sure there are very valid reasons and just want to know them.

Test_Tickles ,

Cab companies have stricter safety regulations and background checks for their drivers.

Stupidmanager ,

Uber has criminal background checks too. In fact, they take their policy very seriously. If you find you get into an uber and your driver is Paul, but it should have been Sara… (no this has never happened to me, ever…). You just call the safety line, or i also think there’s an in-app function.

Still supporting cabs first, but i felt it needed to be clarified.

ShaggySnacks ,

Tech bros love reinventing old technologies with slapped on some technical jargon.

scottywh ,

The trick is you have to pretend that you're actually a "tech company" to avoid all the regulations that apply to companies that are honest about what business they're in.

HawlSera ,

I hate how accurate this is

scottywh ,

Sooo innovative... Can't you see? They made an app that runs on a phone...

HawlSera ,

I'm actually reminded of the time James Randi refused to debunk some tech bro's astrology app, despite him being gung ho about how well it worked... With the reason Randi gave being that because it was an app and claimed to have math behind it, it was too close to the realm of science to count as anything supernatural.... Even though there's virtually no difference between this and a horoscope in the paper, but he was fooled by there being a phone involved. So the guy DID NOT get debunked or even tested despite being full of shit he was, he didn't get tested or in the running for the million, but he got Randi's seal of approval.... That's a task failed successfully moment right there.

God JREF's reputation is so overblown.

Remember: You are not immune to propaganda, you will accept anything if it's presented in a way that seems plausible yet magical enough to you.

joel1974 ,

Pretend your are a church to avoid paying taxes. Driving for Jesus

ShaggySnacks ,

Pretending is easy. Make an app for phones. Always talk in tech buzz words.

We're not a hotel company. We're a company that leverages internet connectivity to connect potential customers with needed accommodation. We're creating our own AI to boost....mumbles with more tech buzzwords.

Potatos_are_not_friends ,

I keep hearing like they didn't really do shit. When Uber did a fuckton.

1 - Reputation. If a taxi driver was a racist POS, literally nothing I can do.

2 - Agreed upon fare. You literally see a estimate of the cost. I had a taxi add extra fees the moment I sat in the car.

3 - GPS. The route on your phone is the same route they follow. How many times have taxis went on a fucking joyride to rank up more money?

4 - See when the ride is coming. "Cab will be there in 15-45 mins." Never fucking shows up.

5 - Automatic payment. How many fucking CC machines didn't work so they forced you to pay cash?

I can go on and on.

But to say some tech bro slapped some tech jargon onto taxis and became rich is disingenuous to all the innovations they've done to unfuck the taxi industry.

lugal ,

"Wait, what are the four things on the side?"
I call them wheels and I reinvented them."

cumskin_genocide ,

I love how Uber drivers make less than taxi drivers. The system is healing..

EatATaco ,

The big difference here is that I know the cost. Getting into a cab it was always kind of blind, and a cab driver definitely tried to screw me one time by driving in circles (we were very drunk, and I noticed at some point we hadn't made it very far, so I started paying attention and it was clear pretty quickly that he had circled back almost to where he had picked us up).

Also when I lived out in Queens, cabs rarely came out there. I had to hike all the way to Queens Blvd to have a chance, and even then they would barely stop at night. Would often get told to "get out" when asking for them to take me back to Queens. I've even been able to get a Uber out almost out in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night.

Lyft/Uber definitely has their problems, but cabs weren't some shining beacon on the hill.

Maggoty ,

Uber can drive in circles and up your fare too... They have per ride, mile, and minute fare just like taxis. The coverage thing is just a problem with New York's medallion system. But also, speaking from experience, rideshare drivers can and will refuse rides into places they don't want to go. The difference is you're talking with dispatch instead of a single driver so they get replaced without you knowing anything. Traditional taxi companies also have a dispatcher you can call and they will handle the recalcitrant drivers, but they may also negotiate a dead head fee.

But guess what? Uber and Lyft build dead heading directly into their fee structure. If you go out of the zone you pay an extra fee so the driver isn't completely out of luck making money.

Uber and Lyft really are just digital dispatchers for privately run taxis.

EvacuateSoul ,

When I drove, the destination was hidden until you start the ride.

Maggoty ,

That wasn't true in the beginning, they did that because drivers were refusing rides. And drivers still try to conflate the expected fare with distance and even cancel rides after seeing the destination. Yes they can get removed if they do that too much but that doesn't stop it from happening.

TheFriar ,

I dunno about you guys, but using a rideshare app, I’ve been canceled on numerous times, by multiple drivers. Often at the last minute, when maybe he app thinks they’re taking too long to reach me? I had a driver I was watching get closer and closer to me, and when they were around the corner the app changed my driver to someone a couple miles away. That shit didn’t happen with taxis because we weren’t reliant on some shitty algorithm that is only coldly making the most rides happen per minute to get higher margins for the company.

There are definitely drawbacks to the old school cab system, but I don’t like the app system. Sure, the meter would go up as you drive and sometimes you’d have to have an idea of where you’re going to not get screwed by a dishonest driver, but the app also randomly charges way more for the same ride depending on the app’s fuckin mood.

Crazy what we’ve let private companies do just because they marginally made our lives somewhat more convenient (on the surface).

Maggoty ,

Surge pricing. Ugh.

CaptnNMorgan ,

I've heard from Uber drivers that a longer trip can increase the price, but I've never seen it happen

Maggoty ,

They don't advertise it. I'm not even sure customers can see it.

EatATaco ,

I've taken hundreds of ubers and it's always been within cents of the price I was quoted. I've taken hundreds of cab rides and only a handful of times was in given a price before hand.

I think it's fair to say I know the price when it comes to an Uber and even if they can drive around to raise the price, it's going to be obvious.

And on that note, at an airport near me there is a close by convenience store and if the Uber doesn't want to take the fair, it's know they will sit in there and wait for the customer to cancel it so they don't get the hit. I've had it happen to me, contacted uber, and they gave me a discount on my next ride. I'm sure they don't want to give away money, so I assume they are dealing with the driver at that point.

Maggoty ,

And I've had hundreds of cab rides that were just fine, and the fare was exactly what I expected. You cannot come in here comparing the excesses of one system against the normal usage of the other system and not get called on it.

EatATaco ,

"what I expected" please expand. Other than maybe having done the trip before a number of times (which would account for a tiny fraction of the rides I took), and even then time of day would affect the price, I really had very little idea what the ride would cost, especially if we're talking within cents.

Maggoty ,

I've never had surge pricing in cabs. And yeah trips around your own town that would have been done multiple times.

psycho_driver ,

Except the taxi cab company has figured out how to offload the purchasing and maintenance of their fleet to their drivers. Probably pay their drivers less, as well.

chuckd ,

With Uber drivers driving their own cars, how is Uber any different in that regard?

psycho_driver ,

That's what I'm saying. Uber is the taxi company.

Maggoty ,

Really depends on the taxi company. In the small mountain town I went to college in there was a traditional company and a co-op company. The traditional company had better cars, an app, and a nice person on the phone. The co-op had old (but clean) cars, drivers acting as dispatch, and drivers that were actually happy to be there and have conversations.

Only one of those companies had nearly all the same drivers the entire time I was there.

LowleeKun ,

I never took (or had to take) an uber. A small achievement of mine.

Melvin_Ferd ,

Maybe we're all just fucking bored Kyle! and need a change every now and then to feel something, anything; to take our minds off this revolving hamster wheel of mundanity

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Go on a goddamn walk Melvin!

AWittyUsername ,

Same thing with streaming. Enshitification ensures that all services end up in the same final state it seems.

randon31415 ,

There was a fix number of taxis (at least in New York) for a growing population. All the consumer wanted was more taxis - it was the businessmen that wanted all the regulations and safety rules gone.

explodicle ,

I'm not sure if anyone else here has mentioned this... At least up until Uber/Lyft came out, taxis were suuuuper racist. It was really hard for black men to hail taxis.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That is true. In the 90s, Michael Moore had a TV show where he did a segment showing the actor Yaphet Kotto trying to get a cab in increasingly ridiculous ways and not getting picked up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-z2uLX0FHk

Lev_Astov ,
@Lev_Astov@lemmy.world avatar

And also super expensive. I've had times where it was half the price to rent a car for the day than to get one taxi from the airport.

sunbeam60 ,

In every single way Ubers are more convenient than a taxi. It’s amazing to me that taxi companies can’t see all the little improvements that going by Uber brings.

dependencyinjection ,

Unless you’re the driver.

sunbeam60 ,

100% agreed. I’m not condoning Uber. I’m saying taxi companies should be better at copying the convenience of Uber.

dependencyinjection ,

I guess it depends where you are. In my city there is a taxi company that started buying lots of smaller ones. They now have an app like Uber so you can order it and see where it is. Because they bought so many firms they’re everywhere and considerably cheaper than Uber. I guess it’s only viable in large cities.

Chetzemoka ,
@Chetzemoka@lemmy.world avatar

Only took the cab companies ten years to catch on to what they should have done as soon as Uber came on the scene. If cab companies had innovated like this, they would have killed Uber in the cradle.

dependencyinjection ,

It’s a lot harder for smaller businesses to invest in that level of development without hedge fund money and trying to corner the market.

If a small taxi company is making £100k profit a year it’s a big ask to invest £20k+ on developer to compete with Uber for what? A small increase in profit.

You need to expand as well as innovate. Hence the one taxi company near me buying out others to have a larger market.

Chetzemoka ,
@Chetzemoka@lemmy.world avatar

Multiple companies could have pooled resources to fund developing an app that they all used. They have existing inventory, employees, local government connections. They definitely could have outcompeted Uber if they had been able to get their heads out of their asses and even try.

Instead they ignorantly tried to kill Uber by suppressing innovation and service improvements that everyone wanted, which was doomed to fail from the start. They dug their own graves on this one.

dependencyinjection ,

And wages? They couldn’t pay the drivers as little as Uber by making them contractors.

Chetzemoka ,
@Chetzemoka@lemmy.world avatar

Uber wouldn't have been able to keep customers if big name, well-established taxi companies had really tried to compete with them. Middle aged adults (like me) would not have been inclined to jump into a stranger's car no matter how cheap it was, if it was just as easy to get a licensed cab.

Riven ,

That's exactly what banks did for quick money transfer. (not that they're small businesses but) The mayor banks in the US got together made a joint company and created Zelle to compete with cashapp and all he other quick money transfer apps.

CasualPenguin ,

About 10 years a go I missed two flights for work because the taxi I had scheduled in advance never showed, and when I called dispatch they said 'he found a better fair, he's allowed to do that's

When I explained this to my neighbor who drove cabs be was still angry with me for switching to Lyft, but also agreed with the dispatch. Cabs don't want to change, which sucks because I wish there was more competition

dubyakay ,

Sure, Uber brought competition. But in certain places they got banned and the local taxi authority greatly improved on the service, learning from the gig apps' offerings.

Potatos_are_not_friends ,

I'm a brown dude. I have so many stories about bad taxi experiences. From Taxi drivers refusing to pick me up, to them going, "You're lucky to be in my car", to "I'm not driving there. Get out."

Around 2017 and was very upset at Uber, I took a taxi from the airport. The guy refused to drive until we had more people in the car. I said this wasn't a car share, and he told me to go take a bus. When I started getting a Uber, he apologized and took me, but then bitched about it the whole drive that he was losing money.

Uber and Lyft changed it all.

Cleaner cars. No attitudes. Agreed upon destination and fair.

I have no sympathy for taxis.

PopShark ,

Thanks for sharing your experience even though I know it can’t feel good typing it all out.

TwoBeeSan ,

Back in the day Opie and Anthony tested this.

Patrice o Neal with a gold chain vs Anthony cumia in a nazi helmet

Cumia got more cabs.

nokturne213 ,
@nokturne213@sopuli.xyz avatar

The fact Ant had a nazi helmet does not surprise me at all.

TwoBeeSan ,

Oh yeah he was probably thrilled lol.

I still see his senility show pop up in my feed occasionally. Would unsub but not sure I'll find out he's dead otherwise lol

TrueMonoxidist ,

Was looking for this comment. Racism was extremely pervasive in certain areas.

The biggest reason Uber and Lyft took off is cabs sucked for the most part. Uber and Lyft aren’t great either, but people forget how bad Taxis were at that time.

EatATaco ,

I remember one time, in Boston, I (white dude) was downstream of a black guy.

Cabbie went right by the black guy and stopped for me.

Black guy came running up and slashed his tire and then ran off.

I was like "cabby deserved it, but at the same time black guy justified it."

MindTraveller ,

Not really a justified decision if it was the wrong one. The cabbie got his tires slashed by being a dickhead. If he'd have not been a racist, he would've had no problems. This is like the guy in the meme who puts a metal pole in his bike spokes. Cabbie caused his own problems.

Jarix ,

Justifying is the wrong word to use but I understood what they meant. But you have to think about it in isolation for it to make sense, and because you have to i don't think it's very helpful to the discourse

Imgonnatrythis ,

Except taxis take cash and don't track your trips in an irreovacble database. I'll take anonymous transport whenever it's a reasonable option.

kameecoding ,

All fun and games until you are given a ride around town and asked for x times your cash

LodeMike ,

?

kameecoding ,

Taxis like to scam tourists.

LodeMike ,

Yeah

Maggoty ,

And you think that's not possible with rideshare? All they have to do is drive through a "checkpoint" and split whatever they get from you. To Uber the driver was a victim too.

Imgonnatrythis ,

You ever had that happen in the post GPS in your pocket era? If so, how (lots of alcohol?).

kameecoding ,

if you have your gps on in your pocket, what difference does it make whether Uber/Lyft is tracking you or Google/Apple?

assuming of course you are looking at your map, which is either google maps, waze or apple maps

Imgonnatrythis ,

You can run GPS w/out a cell signal. GPS is not tracking you. Also, it's more of just a question of premise. I've taken a lot of cabs and never had this issue and it's hard to imagine them thinking they will get away with driving shenanigans in the modern era. Has this happened to you or just an old boomer tale?

kameecoding ,

Taxis literally refused to take us after arriving in Budapest because we speak Hungarian and one of us studied there so had the Budapest accent too and everyone of them was all of a sudden busy and waiting for someone (they were literally just standing around smoking)

The original commenter was complaining about privacy issues with ridesharing apps, so I am not sure what cell signal has to do with anything?
Having gps on is literally useless unless you check your google maps or waze or something that you are not taken on a ride around and all of those track you so have the same privacy issues as alluded to by the original commenter I don't think I can make my point any clearer.

Also if you think this doesn't happen in less developed countries then you are extremely naive.

Imgonnatrythis ,

You either don't understand what literally means or don't understand GPS.

kameecoding ,

thank you for contributing nothing to the conversation

Yawweee877h444 ,

Where the fuck are you going, or what are you doing, to where you don't want your taxi trips tracked?

I understand privacy and stuff, but sometimes people take it and "muh freedoms" way too seriously overboard.

bane_killgrind ,

You can't imagine famous people, federal investigators, Union organisers, protected witnesses, or literally anybody else that wouldn't want their movements trackable by a company or anybody that company gets hacked by?

Yawweee877h444 ,

Of course I can, did you even read my comment?

I understand privacy and stuff, but sometimes people take it and "muh freedoms" way too seriously overboard.

I never said there might not be legitimate reasons to avoid tracking. I'm saying sometimes it's taken too seriously to the point of silliness and forgoing convenience for the sake of "I don't want the gub'ment tracking me" freedom nonsense. There will be times when it makes sense, there will be times when it's just silly.

bane_killgrind ,

That's not how privacy works though. You either have it when you don't need it or don't have it when you need it. You don't just get it when you need it.

It's not silliness to presume that you could eventually be in some situation where you need a high amount of privacy.

Maybe if you don't actually participate in society, there's some life circumstances that mean you would never need privacy. There's probably like a hundred people alive like that. I don't think they take taxis.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

Let's put it another way. How much do you think you should be paid to have your movements tracked?

LodeMike ,

He's visiting your mom (punishable by death)

Potatos_are_not_friends ,

Whores and coke.

Imgonnatrythis ,

After my comment do you think I'm the type to disclose that to you?

JoeBigelow ,
@JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca avatar

And you leave your phone at home right?

Xero ,
@Xero@infosec.pub avatar

Which is why I prefer them.

Chocrates ,

Yes but don't forget about the shareholder value that Uber is bringing! Or will bring when they bankrupt all the competition and then ratchet up the prices so the hedge funds can recoup their losses

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6950645a-8d47-448c-ae1e-d2ebed08760d.png

jaybone ,

Who needs fire when everything is on fire?

SLVRDRGN ,

Things kindle naturally, that's what they'll tell ya.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

What is stopping an uber competitor?

Zoot ,
@Zoot@reddthat.com avatar

The capital required to run at a loss for x amount of years, until Uber goes bankrupt.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

Do they have to run at a loss? They could take 20% rather than ubers 30%.

friendlymessage ,

Uber was bleeding money for years, they were not profitable until very recently. How would a competitor be profitable if they exploit their drivers less? Especially because Uber only had to fight Taxis, a competitor would have to fight Taxis and Uber

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

Uber seems to be a middleman that can be removed by technology

It sounds so plausible but it doesn't exist. There must be a fatal flaw, but I can't see it.

friendlymessage ,

Oh my god, I fought the urge to stop reading when I read Blockchain and read further and it kept getting worse.

Uber takes over some tasks that a distributed system cannot easily do:

  • Handle disputes between driver and customer
  • Vetting drivers
  • Monitoring cars so that if a driver abducts you authorities can find you
  • Taking over development and maintenance of the system
  • Marketing

The article shows no practical solution for any of these problems. Many of the so-called solutions are down-right comical. For example:

As soon as the driver adds the basic information, the legal authorities are notified through smart contracts to perform background checks on the created profile.

So vetting shall be done by the state instead of a company. So instead of customers, tax payers should pay for it. I'm sure governments will be lining up to take on the responsibility and for me as a tax payer: hell no! I want my taxes to go into public transport and not into this bullshit.

Also, let's be gracious and assume that blockchains and smart contracts in general solve a problem that actually exists, you would need smart contracts in case there is no neutral third party that can verify the validity of something. Why would you need that for a process where legal authorities are already involved? If you have an actual authority involved there's an easier and faster solution: a database. Doesn't sound as sexy does it?

Similarly, the legal authorities would conduct the same due diligence checks for the riders to ensure the safety of drivers as well.

Lol, sure they will.

When the rider reaches the desired destination, the ride will end automatically. The payment from the rider’s wallet will be deducted automatically through smart contracts and transferred to the driver’s wallet.

GPS locations can be forged easily. How would such a system reliably without a third party authority determine whether the ride ended? Scams in this system from both parties would be rampant.

And from a customer perspective: why would I need a crypto wallet for this shit? I want to use my credit card! So I need a third party to handle the payment and I sure as hell am not trusting a random driver with no oversight with my credit card information.

So to sum it up: that system solves actually none of the problems. You still need third parties involved such as payment providers and authorities, stuff Uber handles for you. You still need a third party handling disputes, which is unsolved in this article and you still need massive investment in R&D (more than a classical system) and marketing but now without a business model as an incentive for anyone to actually do this. Then you get even more problems because now you need to get government authorities involved. As you have no company with resources backing this, there is nobody capable of negotiating with these governments. Not to mention tech support to actually set up the system.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,
  • Handle disputes between driver and customer

Agreed. This human service is required, but it's not worth 30% of every fare.

Vetting drivers

Not sure this is necessary. A reputation system can be built from drivers, customers and IoT devices.

Monitoring cars so that if a driver abducts you authorities can find you

Uber has no advantage in this area.

Taking over development and maintenance of the system

Yes, this could be the main stumbling block.

Marketing

Less relevant in today's world. How much marketing did chatgpt need.

The article shows no practical solution for any of these problems.

I don't think it was meant to. It was just to introduce the possibility of an Uber killer.

So vetting shall be done by the state instead of a company.

Agreed. A dedicated company (or series of companies) could do this one off service, rather than the state.

you would need smart contracts in case there is no neutral third party that can verify the validity of something.

Agreed. A human arbitration service would be useful. AI isn't good enough yet.

Why would you need that for a process where legal authorities are already involved?

Agreed. Escalation to the proper legal authorities is an option for both Uber and this theoretical competitor.

If you have an actual authority involved there's an easier and faster solution: a database. Doesn't sound as sexy does it?

No. Databases don't do arbitration.

GPS locations can be forged easily.

Not on multiple devices including WiFi data.

How would such a system reliably without a third party authority determine whether the ride ended?

When both parties agree. Like they do now.

Scams in this system from both parties would be rampant.

No different from now.

Why would I need a crypto wallet for this shit? I want to use my credit card!

Why would I need a credit card for this shit? I want to use my crypto wallet and pay less fees to middlemen.

So I need a third party to handle the payment

With a credit card, yes.

I sure as hell am not trusting a random driver with no oversight with my credit card information.

Are now arguing for crypto?

You still need third parties involved such as payment providers

False

and authorities,

Always true.

You still need a third party handling disputes

Agreed.

now you need to get government authorities involved.

Disagree.

Not to mention tech support to actually set up the system.

Yes, this is probably the killer. The people setting this up can't profit from it.

IsThisAnAI ,

Because the taxis would scam you on the price. Or his card reader would be magically broken. Or they'd take you half way around the city crossing as many zones as possible.

Uber brought accountability. Any improvements traditional taxi that had been made with apps are because of Uber.

istanbullu ,

Uber exists in countries where taxicab services were terrible. Uber is not competitive in countries where taxicabs were already good.

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