natural_motions

@natural_motions@lemmynsfw.com

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natural_motions ,

Go back to 4chan. Take the greentext bullshit with you on your way out plx.

natural_motions ,

It's wild that they think acting more like Republucans will secure them votes.

Anything to avoid their own base.

natural_motions ,

Spoiler: it doesn't

natural_motions , (edited )

Nothing really, it's a lose-lose.

In terms of geopolitical strategy, Turkey could serve the same kind of function as Israel in terms of aiding the US in projecting regional influence.

And then morally, obviously, there is no case to be made for supporting Israel.

I guess the only real consideration is that Israel has nukes, but then so does North Korea, China, Russia etc.

This is purely ideological for Biden. If it was strategic his staffers likely wouldn't be resigning, but they recognize that this is a product of fantacism.

natural_motions ,

Blaming Biden for not using his power and influence as literal President of the United States to stop police brutalizing, arresting peaceful student protestors and violating their first amedment rights***

natural_motions ,

I know, poor little guy is totally powerless. I bet they forced him to come out and make public statements dragging students as antisemitic. Probably gave him noogies until he did it.

natural_motions ,

What does that make providing bombs to a government committing genocide?

natural_motions ,

And yet still legal.

natural_motions ,

Yes. Which is why we can safely assume the censorship bill they're introducing has nothing to do with actual antisemitism.

natural_motions ,

He'll only have himself to blame if he loses in November.

Utter fool.

natural_motions , (edited )

It has been for a long time. Reddit has never been left leaning in any meaningful sense of the word. That's literally just a thing people said without evidence.

Redditors have always been, by and large, a majority misogynist, homophobic, anti-lgbt, pro-violence etc.

The mods of most major subs reflect that as well.

natural_motions ,

So it seems, establishment dems are dropping the mask now too.

natural_motions ,

I know, I was remarking more that both parties are in a zionist frenzy where their rhetoric and behavior is indistinguishable. Look no further than the vote counts on the censorship bill that passed the House.

natural_motions ,

Eh, they'll give him that good Presedential meth shit once he's back in office. Roll him out to ramble incoherently about Obama now and again as proof-of-life and then put him back in front of Fox and Friends so he can jerk himself off.

natural_motions ,

So long First Amendment, was a good run.

A special thank you to the media that helped launder the politics of those parties involved in undermining this fundemental human right. Fox, CNN, NPR, NY Times etc. your efforts have finally paid off for good.

natural_motions ,

Dont worry, I've been assured a second Biden term will prevent fascism from taking hold.

natural_motions ,

Ah yes, the nuance to arresting thousands of student protestors and introducing legislation that makes it illegal to criticize Israel.

I know it sounds completely fascist guys but hear me out...

natural_motions ,

I know, he's only head of the Executive after all.

natural_motions ,

Ah yes, countering anti-semitism, bigotry and violence by...

-checks notes-

..arresting peaceful jewish student protestors and the multi-faith coalition supporting them who are being attacked by violent zionist counter-protestors.

natural_motions ,

Fascist fuck is then confused why he can't scrape together enough votes to beat a felon.

natural_motions ,

This comment is peak irony given the post it's under.
Total eclipse of the brain.

natural_motions ,

Just a reminder: voting for the lesser of two evils has not ever resulted in the Democratic party stopping their march to the extreme right right alongside the GOP, to the point now that in order to vote for the Democratic nominee one must accept that their vote goes to supporting a genocide.

natural_motions ,

If you’re looking for a point in history when there wasn’t someone getting hit by the trolley, you’ll be looking a while

Sounds like I should do what's best to send a message to the Democrats in an effort to steer them away from being murderous then, since people are going to die either way and there is no winning with this single election. Thanks!

natural_motions ,

I'm just following your logic and finding the action that has the best long-term effect.

People are going to die anyway, right? That's just history, right?

natural_motions , (edited )

No, turning away the Democrats from having killing as a policy is.

As you say, people are going going to die anyway "that's just reality" and I have to vote for a fascist if I vote for anyone. May as well cast an Uncommitted and punish the party that should be anti-genocide but isn't currently.

(I am one of the minorities that will be targeted by a GOP admin, btw)

natural_motions ,

I see, so if I vote for Democrats this time they'll stop being genocidal next time. Is that how it works?

natural_motions ,

Yes, it does. It means you're willing to put your name to what he does in office.

natural_motions ,

Ten years, why not twenty? I wonder how Biden voted on the Iraq war and invasion of Afghanistan?

How long have we been voting for the technically less evil for now? And where are we at this exact moment? How many times were we all promised "Just vote fascist lite onnnnne more time and next election cycle will be better."?

natural_motions ,

No one had to tell me it, it is self-evident. He's the representative you choose and he's going to absolutely 100% take your vote for him as vindication that supporting genocide is politically viable, which means Dems will keep fielding zionists and taking AIPAC money.

That's the consequences of your choice. You need to accept that, not try to pretend you still get to have sone kind of moral high ground.

natural_motions ,

Well, how right-wing is genocide compared to starting an unjustfied war?

Do you actually think that somehow you're going to convince people that we are both on the precipice of fascism but also the Democrats have gotten better at resisting fascism?

natural_motions , (edited )

Voting for Biden is supporting him, yes. Sitting here arguing that people should vote for him is supporting him. You are a Biden supporter.

Tell me, logically, what would convince democrats to stop supporting genocide?

natural_motions ,

There are three options, not two.

It honestly still sounds like cope to me. You're voting for Biden and the Biden agenda, but somehow think that declaring that you are not supporting him absolves you of enabling him. Take ownership of your actions.

You're not being honest with yourself because you like to believe you're a moral person, but it turns out you are willing to cache in your morals out of fear. Which I guess tracks, cowardice and will lead to cowardly actions.

Tell yourself what you need to in order to sleep at night, but your unwillingness to truly resist is why the country continues on the track it has been on, why Democrats keep following the GOP to the right.

natural_motions ,

I am voting for Biden as a vote against Trump

And I'm voting Uncommitted against Trump as well as zionism and genocide being tolerated in the Democratic party.

You might be ok with Dems being complicit in genocide, I am not and my action reflects that. It doesn't take a whole lot to get my vote back, just don't fund genocide. Easy, right?

You keep mentioning morals after I already told you that my decision is not one based in morals; it’s based in logic.

And I repeat the question you side-stepped; logically, how would one discourage Democrats from supporting genocide? Remember now, I'm not talking about Republicans, I know that they're difficult to distinguish these days but I'm asking about Democrats. How, logically, does one stop Democrats from funding genocide and accepting AIPAC money?

natural_motions ,

Contact my representatives. Ok. And when they say "Nah, we like supporting genocide and taking AIPAC money, we're going to keep doing that" what then?

natural_motions ,

Ok, so the party leaders and representatives and your local city council or whoever else say "Nah, we like supporting genocide and taking AIPAC money, we’re going to keep doing that” what then?

What's the next step, logically, if those in power aren't listening or interested in changing their behavior?

natural_motions ,

I see. Taking office myself.

So if we extend this logic to the presidency I should...-checks notes-....just become the President of the United States.

natural_motions ,

You're just circling back around to alluding to Republicans again. I didn't ask about how to stop Republicans. I asked how to stop right-wing extremist Democrats from directing the party.

You admit on one hand that getting people to vote against a genocide-supporting candidate is ultimately the way you influence the Democratic party's support of genocide when those in power won't listen, but then still end up at the conclusion that we should vote for the genocide-supporting candidate.

I fail to see how this will effect the Democrats future behavior. Why wouldn't they just continue their strategy of propping up extremist right-wing opponents to make their genocide-supporting candidates the lesser of two evils?

What do you think, logically, I should infer then about your claim that you're a logical decision maker?

natural_motions , (edited )

What does “alluding to Republicans” even mean?

I'm pointing out that in the end you still just invoke them as boogiemen. You still fall back to "Well, the reason you vote for the problematic Dems this time is...(because Republicans)." Which is what you'll say next election and the next and the next.

It is the exact feedback loop I'm asking how to not participate in reinforcing since that very strategy has objectively failed for decades and only moved the nation further to the right. Yet it repeats because every election cycle morons come out and vote based on fear.

I'm explicitly not asking about kicking the can down the road again.

I told you exactly what to do. If you missed it, scroll back up.

You suggest asking nicely and then, if that doesn't work, voting in local elections and hoping some day in some indeterminate future, that trickles up and effects the party leadership somehow.

I'm looking to destroy or disable the entrenched power structure in the DNC, not continue to indefinitely play a rigged game they themselves run. I'm not looking to help them continue playing grab-ass with the other flavor of fascists, do you understand?

I am 100% uninterested in waiting for the general public to wake up on their own, they can wake up from the slap across the face that is Donald Trump if thats what it takes to get them to actually move their dumbasses into gear. Because if that doesn't do it then the general public will simply acclimate to the slow boil of fascism that we are currently experiencing, and that's when things are truly done for good.

If someone is outnumbered by ineffectual morons with lots of money and entrenched political support and voting with the morons changes nothing, but voting against them disrupts their pattern of stupidity because they need your vote to move forward, then doing the latter is a legitimate choice to make. That is being politically active.

It's the difference between getting on the idiot wagon or laying down in front of it.

It doesn’t mean change is going to happen next week.

Right, and how long do we continue empowering the lesser of two evils? How many generations before that cycle is spontaneously disrupted by "talking to your local party leadership"?

Fear-based "Later" politics are idiotic and cowardly. I'm opting out of that.

natural_motions ,

Who said anything about not voting? People should vote in every election they can.

US House passes controversial bill that expands definition of anti-Semitism [1 May 2024 | Al Jazeera] ( www.aljazeera.com )

The bill passed the House on Wednesday by a margin of 320 to 91, and it is largely seen as a reaction to the ongoing antiwar protests unfolding on US university campuses. It now goes to the Senate for consideration....

natural_motions ,

Here is the record of those who voted Yay or Nay, if anyone is interested on checking their rep and voting them out of office.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/118-2024/h172

Jewish Democrat on voting against bill: Anti-Zionism not ‘inherently’ antisemitism [Filip Timotija | 05/01/24 | The Hill] ( thehill.com )

Jewish Rep. Sara Jacobs (D-Calif.) said she voted against the bill that would crack down on antisemitism on college campuses because, in her view, anti-Zionism is not “inherently” antisemitism, and the measure that passed through the House would “stifle” free speech rights....

natural_motions ,

Here is the record of those who voted Yay or Nay, if anyone is interested on checking their rep and voting them out of office.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/118-2024/h172

natural_motions ,

That would include pissing their pants, which costs extra. Unarmed students are free though.

natural_motions ,

Begs the question; who is more corrupt, the US Supreme Court or FIFA leadership 🤔

A question for the philosophers I suppose

'Horrific' violence at UCLA after counter-protesters attack pro-Palestinian camp ( www.bbc.com )

Violence erupted at the University of California, Los Angeles after pro-Israeli counter-demonstrators attacked a pro-Palestinian campus encampment. Bubbling tensions on the campus boiled over following the alleged breach of a "buffer zone" between the rival groups.

natural_motions ,

Right-wingers. They just happen to be zionist right-wingers.

Same the world over because violence and fascism are the fundemental basis of right-wing political ideology, whatever local flavor it might be.

natural_motions ,

It is antisemitic and it's also just false. If I were jewish I'd much rather live in the US or Europe where a crazy Zionist government isn't trying to start a regional war.

natural_motions ,

What war? You can't be at war with a territory you already occupy and control completely.

natural_motions , (edited )

The hell? Israel has routinely shut off water and electricity to Gaza. They've been putting Gaza "on a diet" long before October 7th.

I think you're being really dishonest here. A self-governed country doesn't get denied food by another, it doesn't have its citizens ability to leave that territory controlled by another state, it doesn't have troops come in and burn crops. That's still occupation.

natural_motions ,

No one said anything about "real Jews", we're talking about Israelis, who are at most a single generation away from being European, many of the older generation were born in Europe regardless of religion.

So yes, Israelis are European colonists who displaced the people who lived on that land for many generations before any of them showed up.

Zionism predates the creation of Israel.

Yup, created in Europe late 18th century.

Nothing you've described entitles European colonists to the land in Israel. They are there now, Israel isn't going anywhere, but that does not excuse the ongoing genocide of the people who lived there already and have a much more substantiated claim to the land.

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