Krono

@Krono@lemmy.today

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Krono ,

If Russian misinformation online was so effective, then why dont we see other countries and institutions doing the same?

And in fact we do. The CIA and Dept of Defense have similar programs. The CCP and many EU spy agencies do it. And the historical leader in influencing online discourse is Israel.

Israel's Hasbara propaganda campaign is huge. Students receive scholarships for posting online disinformation. The IDF has a well-funded military arm dedicated to influencing online discourse.

So when we only hear about Russian bots and Russian influence, it feels disingenuous. It is pushing a political narrative. There is a genocide going on. The US administration is supporting it. This meme is downplaying it.

tl;dr: is OP a Hasbara bot?

Krono ,

So the difference is that Trump will drop a MOAB and kill hundreds..

And Biden will send 300,000 massive bombs to a genocidal warlord to kill tens of thousands?

I'm not trying to defend Trump, but I'm confused by your logic.

Krono ,

I'm right here, this article does nothing to change my mind about how Joe Biden is aiding and abetting an ongoing genocide.

Yes, Trump will almost certainly be worse. That doesn't change the fact that our current president's support for genocide is deplorable, it hurts his electoral chances, and it damages the US standing in the world.

Burying Palestinian families alive under the rubble of their former homes is not a good use of my tax dollars. Joe Biden needs to stop.

Krono ,

Yes we agree that other modern presidents have been genocidal as well.

Using that fact as an excuse for the current genocide is not some realpolitik, "adults in the room" level of thinking. It is moral depravity and the banality of evil.

Krono ,

Who is using it as excuse for the current genocide?

You did, when you said "Genocide is a US problem not specific to any president."

When comparing 2 candidates, genocide doesn't matter because they will both do it

This "lesser of two evils" logic only holds up when deciding who to vote for. The Biden administration does not get to aid a genocide criticism-free just because Trump would be worse.

Once a president is in office then you can protest decision

A president is in office now, aiding a genocide now, so I'm protesting now. If the US is still supporting genocide after the election I will protest then, too.

i'm not a trumper but biden is commiting genocide" is just pedantic and missing the point

I saw a shocking amount of upvoted genocide denial in the comments, so I felt the need to respond, even if its unpopular.

Krono ,

I believe this is referring to the famous Sunday meeting with all of the centrist candidates and former president Obama. This happened right after Bernie won the South Carolina primary.

As a result of that meeting, buttigieg dropped out and endorsed biden (He got Secretary of Transportation)

Klobuchar also dropped out and endorsed Biden. (She got Chairman of the Rules Committee)

Warren, also at the meeting, stayed in the race to split the left-leaning vote.

This backroom meeting was the turning point for the primaries. Previous to this meeting, Bernie had a solid lead. Afterwards, it was all Biden.

Krono ,

Jimmy Carter was able to quietly support genocide because there were only 3 TV news stations at the time. None of them would mention Cambodia, you had to read the 14th page of the NYT to actually be informed.

This level of broad-based ignorance is no longer possible in the internet era.

And beside that, "just shut up and keep genociding" is a shocking and evil stance to take. Ignoring morality and hiding behind realpolitik is how we get figures like Kissinger, Netanyahu, and Hitler.

Krono ,

The president has oversight in weapons shipments.

Congress passed the Leahy law, which prevents weapons shipments to regimes that violate human rights.

The only thing the Biden state dept has to do is acknowledge Israel's war crimes in a formal report. But they have been bending over backwards to delay and water down the report.

Biden could legally stop these genocidal resupplies today if he wanted to .

Krono ,

I come in contact with genocide denial both when touching grass and when terminally online.

If you want to do genocide denial but sarcastically, you need to make it more obvious to separate yourself from the large segment of the population that does it without sarcasm.

Krono ,

intensive investigation

Yes that intensive investigation has occurred, the report was released on May 10. It stopped just short of admitting gross violations of human rights in Gaza.

This political document, submitted by the Biden administration's state department, laughably suggests that there is no evidence of intentional wrongdoing, nor did Israel arbitrarily obstruct humanitarian aid into Gaza.

I think the only way you can read this report and find it credible is if you are already filled with Zionist propaganda.

Krono , (edited )

Only idiots are saying both sides are the same, but the only way to make Biden look good is to compare him to Trump. Such a low bar.

Lowering insulin prices is great, but its just another bandaid on the gaping, infected wound that is the US healthcare system. What happened to the public option that candidate Biden talked about so much?

Lowering cannabis to schedule 3 is a step in the right direction, now we can have legitimate legal studies on the drug. But this doesn't have to go in baby steps, he could have just descheduled it. We will still be arresting and prosecuting and jailing, ruining lives and wasting loads of taxpayer dollars.

The infrastructure bill is just clearing the maintenance backlog, we still have no real plans for high speed rail. Our infrastructure is 10-15 years behind China and falling further behind.

Krono ,

When Biden was elected, Dems controlled both houses of congress. What stopped him from pushing his public option plan then?

What is stopping him from pushing to deschedule cannabis completely? Even if congress gets in his way, people would give him massive credit for actually trying.

You say we need to elect more Democrats to make bigger steps, but we did that in 2008 and 2020 and still we get baby steps. Why?

If the president is so powerless, then why are people worried about project 2025 and "dictator on day 1" Trump? Surely they must be confused, because the adults in the room like you know that the president is actually unable to pass meaningful legislation.

Please educate me since I'm completely unaware how our government works.

Krono ,

In 2008, both China and the US announced competing high speed rail initiatives.

According to wikipedia, China now has 43,000 km of high speed rail. The US has 80 km of high speed rail.

Yes Cali has plans for high speed rail, its pretty much the same plan from 2008.

And going down your list- renewable energy, fighting inflation, student debt forgiveness, homebuyer assistance - all of these are tepid, surface level initiatives that do not solve the underlying problems. So you're right, I dont give Biden much credit.

Krono ,

I'm not asking for "it all", I don't expect it to be perfect. I'm just pointing out the glaring contrast- China successfully built high speed rail, and the US has failed (so far)

I dont like the progress we have made because I believe in the promise of America. America can do so much better. We should be building rail just as fast as China, but instead we are building at 1% of their pace and people like you call it "progress".

Krono ,

decent president

Personally, I believe Biden forfeited any claims to decency when he went on national television and lied to the American people about seeing pictures of 40 beheaded babies. This gruesome story, proved false by any serious accounting of Oct. 7th, was told to justify the ongoing genocide in Gaza.

But I guess I'm just an idealist.

Krono ,

Using Trump as an excuse for deplorable behavior is not a good look. We need to do better than a race to the bottom.

Krono ,

Two years of a filibuster proof majority for a president elected on hope and change, and the best they can do is a conservative healthcare plan, packed with giveaways for the big insurers.

That's when I lost all faith in the democratic party.

Krono ,

[Peace is] the goal that the Biden administration has been working towards

Yeah totally, the guy who has shipped 300,000 bombs to a genocidal warlord is actually working for peace! And anyone who disagrees just doesn't understand the complexity of the situation. /s

Krono ,

Commenter is incorrect that he promised, instead he just strongly implied that he would stop at 1 term.

While the option of making a public pledge remains available, Biden has for now settled on an alternative strategy: quietly indicating that he will almost certainly not run for a second term while declining to make a promise

According to four people who regularly talk to Biden, all of whom asked for anonymity to discuss internal campaign matters, it is virtually inconceivable that he will run for reelection in 2024, when he would be the first octogenarian president.

“If Biden is elected,” a prominent adviser to the campaign said, “he’s going to be 82 years old in four years and he won’t be running for reelection.”

Biden signals to aides that he would serve only a single term -Politico

Krono ,

And that's exactly the benefit of having your aides leak answers instead of answering questions directly.

The Biden team leaks "one term president" to quell the narrative about his age. This creates a news cycle so that a slice of the electorate, people like commenter Bipta, are led to believe it's a promise.

But theres a tiny amount of plausible deniability so that people like you can come in after the fact and mischaracterize it as "an unknown advisor" (the story quotes 4 high level advisors, which is a very high bar for these types of leaks) and then dismiss the story as if it was just a rumor.

Krono ,

It must be such a relief for Blinken whenever he can go to Ukraine and be on the right side of history.

Facilitating a genocide in Gaza must really do a number on a man, you can tell by the hideous bags under his eyes.

Krono ,

The world finding another oil and gas reserve is like an alcoholic finding a secret door to a fully stocked bar.

We're probably going to drink ourselves to death.

Krono ,

You're not wrong, these Trump trial judges are bending over backwards to avoid any grounds for mistrial. In one sense they are doing the right thing inside the legal framework, but look at the downsides.

The public is watching how a rich and powerful man can game the system, even as a criminal defendant the system is working for him. Every incarcerated person can see the reality: they were treated with default brutality, but Trump is treated as royalty.

And even worse, they are allowing Trump to delay every verdict until after the election. If he wins the election he pardons himself, this is a horrible precedent for our democracy.

US report on Israel’s wartime conduct in Gaza delayed, aides say ( www.politico.com )

The Biden administration’s report on whether Israel has violated U.S. and international humanitarian law during the war in Gaza has been delayed and will no longer be released Wednesday as planned, three Senate aides and a House aide told POLITICO....

Krono ,

For any other country, state dept reports like this have to clear before we start shipping weapons.

But for Israel, the Biden administration carves out exceptions and delays the reporting so the illegal weapons shipments can continue.

This is the banality of evil, Palestinian children are starving and exploding and we are arguing over reports.

This is why Biden has earned the moniker "Genocide Joe".

Krono ,

One of the big themes of the fall of the Roman Republic was that many leaders faced a dilemma: stay in office or face dire legal consequences. Julius Ceasar had to make sure he held office continuously for decades or else he would have been dragged through the courts.

If you asked me 15 years ago, I would have naively said that modern governments do not have this problem. But one look at Trump or Netanyahyu and the logic is clear: do everything to stay in power, because if you fail you get life in prison.

Krono ,

You're not wrong, our current oligarchs can get away with almost anything. The only time they face serious consequences is when there is a coalition of other oligarchs who want to punish them.

Which is why I believe Trump and Netanyahu fall into this political trap of "win or prison". They both have many politically powerful enemies.

Maybe I'm being optimistic, I dont want to come off as a shitlib who's thinking "Mueller is really gonna get Drumpf this time!", but I think its very likely hes going to prison if hes unable to pardon himself.

Krono ,

My inner pedant needs to respond and point out that I said "the fall of the Roman Republic".

So we are in pedantic agreement.

As China and Iran hunt for dissidents in the US, the FBI is racing to counter the threat ( apnews.com )

After a student leader of the historic Tiananmen Square protests entered a 2022 congressional race in New York, a Chinese intelligence operative wasted little time enlisting a private investigator to hunt for any mistresses or tax problems that could upend the candidate’s bid, prosecutors say....

Krono ,

What's the difference between this and Edward Snowden or Julian Assange? Or Drake and Binny, or the Boeing whistleblowers?

We may not have killed Chelsea Manning, but we tortured her for years for her heroic actions.

According to Associated Press framing, when we do it its debatable, but when Iran or China does it then its nefarious, because they are the bad guys

Krono ,

This Medium article is poorly sourced.

The NYT article is from 2021.

The oft-repeated idea that Iran supplies the majority of Hamas weapons is also poorly sourced. It is usually attributed to the CIA's World Factbook or former US generals who now are talking heads for think tanks. These sources are highly biased.

But one thing that has been well documented is the Hamas unexploded ordinance team. They have over a decade of experience disarming and retrieving Israeli bombs from Gazan homes and businesses.

Krono ,

Sorry I didn't want to write an essay, but you're right, I should have provided more.

I think it's obvious the Medium article is poorly sourced- there are no links, no quotes, and no attribution whatsoever. Compare it to a write up like Hamas Recycling Unexploded Ordinance in Gaza, which tells the exact same story but it comes with links and quotes, and it names the source as Michael Cardash, the former deputy head of the Israeli National Police Bomb Disposal Division.

As for the Iranian connection, I know I'm going against popular opinion, but I made my claims clear and anyone can try to disprove me.

A quick Google search shows many articles on the bomb disposal unit and tactics inside Gaza dating back to at least 2012. The Inevitable Rearmament of Hamas (2021) gives a good analysis. An even better source for this is the al-Qassam Brigade's youtube, they post raw war footage including bomb disposal. Unfortunately I dont speak Arabic so I wasnt able to find a specific video.

Krono ,

Oh, you're too kind! I would like to take credit but in reality I was inspired by people like Chris Jeffries, the writer of this Medium article.

His confident writing style and utter lack of sources was truly an inspiration.

Krono ,

Yes I think we have the same general thesis here, readers should think critically always.

Look at the context here, my unsourced internet comment was in response to xep's unsourced internet comment.

Xep made 3 claims, and I believe all 3 are incorrect.

Krono ,

That sounds like a great argument for taking away the iron dome, then Israel would no longer feel protected enough to keep up with their reckless provocations against Iran.

Krono ,

Yes I agree, if we allow Israel to start a war with Iran the death toll would be in the millions, and as always the majority of victims will be civilians.

Krono ,

I think you're right that Bernie was late. He has been criticized for decades for being weak on Palestine. He wouldnt say the word "ceasefire" until the Democratic Party gave him permission.

But please look at the bigger picture. The movement for Palestinian liberation needs numbers and we need solidarity. Bernie may be "late" but hes on the right side of history. Everyone who joins the movement today is "late" but we can't afford to turn them away.

And let's be honest, Bernie is the best Senator of our lifetimes (so far). No other Senator is giving such powerful pro-Palestinian speeches. The Senate floor would be so much darker and more evil without this one man's voice.

Krono ,

They will be the two major party candidates.

They are 81 and 77, theres still hope one (or both) of them die before it's too late.

Krono ,

Your math continues to ignore the large subsection of Jewish Americans who are anti-Zionist.

Krono ,

So instead Biden will continue to support the genocide until Trump takes over.

It's the worst outcome for both Palestine and America, and yet the Biden administration continues to choose this horrible path.

Krono ,

If Biden changes course and ends the genocide, he will not lose the Jewish people, he will only lose the Zionist people. These Zionists are a small sliver of the American electorate.

Of course a change in position would have to be accompanied by a change in propaganda. The onesided pro-Israel rhetoric spewed by him and his press team would have to change to a humanist, anti-war stance. They could start by highlighting some of the atrocities committed by Israel instead of downplaying them. MSNBC and local news would quickly follow suit and pick up the party line. People should be talking about a mass grave with 400 bodies instead of a broken window at Columbia.

Obviously there would be a loud backlash from prominent Zionists, but again in the big scheme of the electorate they matter very little. The current Biden strategy of forfeiting the young, the anti-war, and the Islamic demographics would be significantly worse.

You can call this idea farfetched, but thats only because Biden is so entrenched in his position. I believe it's the best option to save the Biden presidency and avoid a Trump second term.

Krono ,

Are young people really a part of Bidens coalition? Bidens policies and rhetoric have consistantly pushed young people away. The ridiculous speech he gave just a few minutes ago maligning student protestors is emblematic of this.

And it seems like young people have got the message. The last poll I saw had 18-24yr olds voting for Trump at +8%

Krono ,

Nah most Repubs wouldnt do this, they all have their unique brand of evil. This type of proud dog murder requires a certain blend of rural fetishization and a "women can do toxic masculinity too" attitude.

Matt Gaetz wouldnt do this, he knows that it wouldnt play well on tiktok for all the 17 year olds hes trying to sleep with.

Doug Burgum wouldnt do this, he would hire a minimum wage contractor to kill the dog, and structure the whole operation under a LLC for tax preferred status.

Lich McConnel wouldnt do this, he is busy deep in the senate catacombs, guarding his phylactery and casting blood magic to ensure Democrats will never appoint a supreme court justice.

Krono ,

To be fair, those fascists make great customers.

$400 gold sneakers, $60 bibles, Trump NFTs, a new perfume line,, it's all selling out.

Krono ,

Maybe I'm an idealist, but I think democracy is when your views are represented and government is responsive to the needs of the people.

"Democracy is when you don't vote" just doesn't make sense to me.

Krono ,

What do you mean it hasn't been done? There have been many progressive challengers to DNC-backed neoliberals. I can tell you about my experience volunteering for a few of these campaigns and all the structural hurdles the DNC uses to crush the progressive wing of the party.

But I think the bigger issue is urgency. We can't afford to wait a generation before taking serious action on climate change. Our current path leads directly to the end of human civilization.

And for the families in North Gaza eating grass to survive, they cannot wait until the next election cycle.

Krono ,

From my experience the problem isn't reputation or pedigree, its DNC-created problems. Progressive challengers have a hard time doing basic things like printing flyers, because print shops know that if they work with a progressive challenger once theny they end up on the DNC blacklist. Its official DNC policy and it's super effective.

I too would love to see more DSA backed candidates running for lower offices, but from what I've seen it's not a question of tactics, it's a question of resources. Most modern politics is funded by corporate donors, and since the DSA does not accept this corruption, they simply dont have the money to run a candidate for dogcatcher in your flyover town.

Where I live in a populous blue state, there is no such thing as a republican running unopposed. If that's different where you live, then you should sign up to be the next DSA candidate running for one of those seats.

Uncommitted voters are not apathetic. The Democratic party is ( www.theguardian.com )

What happens in November is up to Biden – it will not be the fault of the protest voter if Trump is elected. The questions remain: does the Democratic party fear Trump as much as we do? And does it value its voters enough to shift away from an approach to the onslaught in Gaza that a majority of Democratic voters are against?

Krono ,

I expect Trump to do horrible things. I expect Trump to be worse than Biden.

What does that have to do with my questions?

Krono ,

I'm not angry, I was asking an honest question that no one has answered yet: how?

You say you take the genocide seriously, and you say electing Biden is buying us time to push for change, so answer my question then:

How will we effectively push the Biden administration to change Gaza policy after he is re-elected?

Krono ,

The Gaza liberation movement is collectively looking Biden in the eye and saying what we want. We are standing with a united voice. You should join us instead of creating all this needless division and conflict.

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