Israelis rally to demand ceasefire and Netanyahu's resignation ( www.euronews.com )

"We hope the world hears us and knows that the people of Israel are not the government of Israel," said one protester.

Israelis protested on Saturday night, calling for a ceasefire and the resignation of hardline Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. 

Tens of thousands took to the streets in Tel Aviv to demand that the government reach a deal with Hamas to secure the release of Israeli hostages in Gaza. 

They also called for new elections, accusing Netanyahu of prolonging the conflict to keep himself in power.

blazeknave ,

A lot of motherfuckers, ignoring the article as usual to grandstand, whining they were called out for antisemitism, instead of acknowledging anything in the article. Priorities noted, lemmy.

moitoi ,
@moitoi@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Any other sources about this? Euronews is linked to Victor Orban.

I would rather read a source outside of the two sides.

McDropout ,
@McDropout@lemmy.world avatar

Most of these people take/haven taken part in the IDF and have been actively participating in Apartheid. These people have been actively been on check points, raided Palestinian houses and killed and kidnapped (yes, kidnapped, because some are in prison without being proven guilty of anything).

This was done by Israelis.

Israelis are actively living in houses that aren’t theirs. In houses where the owners left due to their terrorism.

“We are not our government” but you are.

Spare me the crocodile tears and the fake democracy. We all saw your true colors. Genocidal maniacs.****

FrowingFostek ,

True but, isn't it also true that a ceasefire is desirable? Isn't it also true that the current prime minister should not hold power?

These people protesting could be fairly judged as guilty of all the things you said. Would that make the things they are asking for invalid?

Is perfection the realistic result? I dont think so.

Can we be happy fewer Palestinians die as a result of this? I like to think so.

Laser ,

Most of these people take/haven taken part in the IDF

Most likely? I mean Israel has a draft for women and men with the only exception being Orthodox Jews - which, ironically, might be the ones most in favor of the current government. How does that make their point irrelevant?

have been actively participating in Apartheid.

Dude, that word has a different meaning from what you're implying. Call the atrocities in Gaza a genocide, that's fair. But it's not apartheid and neither is Israel an apartheid state, nor an ethnostate. Source: been to Israel, talked to people, there are no Jewish / non-Jewish toilets or fountains or anything, non-Jewish stores next to Jewish ones etc.

The rest of your blathering is just generalization. The same applied to people living in Gaza would make a lot of unjust actions look much better - after all, most of the people in Gaza have kidnapped and slaughtered civilians, no? Yeah, probably not.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1114702

TokenBoomer ,

Thank you for your service

Sam_Bass ,

The man is powermad and powerblind. May need to be forcibly removed

casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer ,

CIA needs to clean up the mess they created.

in4aPenny ,

Why? Everything's going according to plan.

phoenixz ,

And this shows that those opposed to Israel's actions in Gaza are not antisemitic (ignoring the eventual neonazi assholes), they are opposed to a government that is committing genocide. Especially a government that governs a people THAT SHOULD KNOE BETTER.

I have no problems at all with Jews and I'm sure that, given people who really want peace, a good treaty can be made where both the Palestinians and the Israelites can peacefully coexist, that would be awesome.

However, right now saying even something like that is somehow antisemitic. If anything, I find that sort of behavior antisemitic, because it is so transparent that it pushes more people to the far right and into the hands of neo Nazis.

Stop the genocide, stop the war, withdraw ALL Israeli forces immediately and unconditionally. Then put in a peace keeping force comprised of multiple countries in that same area, and make sure they all work towards peace.

DaBabyAteMaDingo ,

Palestine will reject any treaty. Like they always have. All they want is for Jews to be the minority or to leave entirely.

davepleasebehave ,

it's difficult to choose your colonizer.

DaBabyAteMaDingo ,

True. I say we give back the land to the people that were there first. Egypt and Jordan.

TokenBoomer , (edited )

Really

Report: Hamas Accepts Gaza Cease-fire Deal; Israeli Officials Reject Prospect of War Ending

Archive link for posterity.

DaBabyAteMaDingo ,

A headline from an article I need to pay to read that was sourced by hamas themselves? I'm sold! 🤣

No wonder the whole world doesn't take you far lefties seriously 😂

TokenBoomer ,

Sorry, reality doesn’t agree with your assertion. Also, your mask is slipping.

Hamas announced its acceptance Monday of an Egyptian-Qatari cease-fire proposal, but Israel said the deal did not meet its “core demands” and that it was pushing ahead with an assault on the southern Gaza city of Rafah. source

DaBabyAteMaDingo ,

Do you think written an article is the same as sourced? 😂🤣😘😂

TokenBoomer ,

I’m not sure any source will mete your discernment.

Hamas publishes the cease-fire proposal it agreed to

What would be a better source, tea leaves?

Daft_ish ,

Weird, shouldn't they be rallying to stop biden?

NoIWontPickAName ,

No that’s our job in America, they are doing their part against their government.

Daft_ish ,

Don't you think isrealis might want Americans to fight hard to resist the installment of an authoritarian government so we don't suffer in the same way they are right now?

explodicle ,

"Install"? The USA wrote the book on genocide. It's a lot more practical to protest your own government.

FarraigePlaisteach ,

‘"We hope the world hears us and knows that the people of Israel are not the government of Israel," said one protester.‘

I really wanted to believe that, but they have the same PRV type of voting system as Ireland so that’s hard to believe. It’s not like UK/US where the votes are counted in a more primitive way.

blargerer ,

I'll admit to not being the most knowledgeable person on internal Israeli politics, but my understanding is hes been holding onto power for a while through a combination of coalitions and judge nonsense. Even then, if he represented the views of 51% of Israeli's that would still be a lot of people who's views don't align with his.

rayyy ,

Sounds vaguely similar to a situation developing in the US.

go_go_gadget ,

Biden's primary stated reason for defending Israel is a promise to his dying father.

Not his conscience, not the people alive and around him today, not the people who voted for him, not the people who he's depending on to get re-elected.

Sorry America, an 80 year old white man is making an undemocratic choice due to a promise he made to another old white man. Awesome.

ModernRisk ,
@ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Claims without actual trustable sources are just rumors and gossips.

go_go_gadget ,

Fair enough, but it's just about the only explanation that would make sense. Dude is going to lose the election over this.

wurzelgummidge ,

The CIA will ensure that he wins. He's a Neocon, a fully paid up subscriber to the Wolfowitz Doctrine and a lot more reliable than Trump.

go_go_gadget ,

Didn't all that apply to HRC?

ModernRisk ,
@ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

In January there was a poll done in Israel:
Only 15% of Israelis want Netanyahu to keep job after Gaza war, poll finds.

I don’t know how the poling is now though. However with how the world currently sees Israel, I doubt it would be in a favor for the prime minister (as in not in favor for him).

PugJesus ,
@PugJesus@kbin.social avatar

It's also a parliamentary system, and there hasn't been a stable coalition in forever. Netanyahu, despite his lack of public popularity, has the backroom connections to stay on top of 'the game' in a divided parliament, especially with two of the left-wing parties only narrowly missing the threshold in the last election.

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I wish them luck. They have an uphill climb against someone cementing dictatorial powers but I hope they can achieve those goals.

kautau ,

Unfortunately this can be said for a few nations now at this point

Lucidlethargy ,
@Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works avatar

All the research I'm doing right now points to them just wanting their hostages back. Can anyone post evidence of citizens protesting the war on the grounds of genocide?

I just don't see the humanity here... I want to see it, but I can't find any evidence at all that they are against the actual atrocities being committed. If there is a huge vocal outcry for this, then their media (and/or ours) is doing overtime to hide it.

TropicalDingdong ,

It's interesting that Lemmy has pretty okay representation globally, not great but OK.

Are there any lemmings in Israel that can tell us what's going on?

I think it's important not to project into these protesters what we would like them to be protesting about. We need to hear their words, from them.

CerealKiller01 ,

Hi, Israeli here.

I'll start off by saying this turned out to be a VERY long post. I did my best to condense the absolutely necessary parts, and I still feel I've left a lot of important stuff out. Anyway, hopefully anyone who's interested in the situation and reads this will be able to gain some insight.

The thing is, you guys are looking at the situation in Israel from your perspective without understanding the factors at play. To actually understand the situation among Jewish Israelis (who I'll refer to as "Israelis" for simplicity's sake) requires a thorough explanation about Israeli culture, politics and some history.

Saying "I don't see any signs against genocide, that must mean all Israelis are pro-genocide" forces your perspective on the situation, like saying (in very broad terms) "I didn't see any signs that talk about 'all life matters' in the BLM protests, that must mean they only value black lives", so imaging that, but instead of an American saying it, it's some dude in Thailand who has very little understanding of the racial situation on the US.

So, let's go:

Right now, the country is pretty divided among supporters of the current government and those opposed to it. While the government has a 53% majority in the parliament, it really never had more than 50% supporters among the population (Firstly, some left wing parties didn't get enough votes to get into parliament. Also, right after the elections the Likud government adopted a plan proposed by the religious far-right party that would, in essence, transform Israel into a Hungry-like hybrid regime which made many liberal Likud supporters oppose the government). The opposition grew stronger after Oct. 7th, though the government still has the support of (mainly) the far right, the ultra-orthodox religious parties and the Israeli version of Trump supporters who mainly want to "own the libs". There are weekly polls that check how many people support the current government and Netanyahu is using every trick in the book to increase support among the public because his coalition is extremely fragile.

However, regarding the war in Gaza, there is a consensus that's shared among a very large majority of the population from both sides:

  1. The Israeli hostages must be returned. I cannot overstate how important this is. Firstly, Israel is a tiny country, quite communal and most Israelis have large families. The hostages aren't "citizens", "people" or even "fellow Jews". They're "The niece of my dentist", "My ex's uncle", "The daughter of friends of my colleague" etc. Nearly Every Israeli knows someone who knows someone who's been kidnapped. Secondly, one of the founding ethos of Israel is to have a safe place for Jews that's free of persecution no matter what. The Oct. 7th massacre is seen not only as a tragedy, but as the state not performing one of its core functions to some extent. Lastly, redemption of prisoners is a major commandment in the Jewish faith. This is the main point on all virtually ALL Israelis can agree upon (Let me stress that again - the agreement isn't that the hostages "should" be returned, but that they MUST be returned. That's important for later).

  2. Hamas must be destroyed. If they're allowed to exist, this will happen again (There is, however, disagreement on how best can Israel vanquish Hamas).

These two objectives are seen among many (not sure if most) as contradictory - Hamas is using the hostages to force an Israeli retreat from Gaza, and the only way they will release all of the hostages is if that secures their rule in Gaza. This is also important to remember for later.

  1. What Israel is doing in Gaza is somewhere between unfortunate and tragic, but it's absolutely not genocide, rather a result of Hamas integrating itself into civilian infrastructure and hiding behind civilians (again, this is the mainstream opinion, not something agreed by ALL Israelis).

I, personally, subscribe to the first two points, do not believe they are contradictory and while I believe the IDF isn't nearly as cautious about harming civilians in Gaza as it should be and that not allowing humanitarian aid into Gaza is immoral, both things do not constitute genocide.

Those numbed three points are in the Israeli consensus, but we have one more crucial piece of context before I get to the demonstrations - There are two groups of Israelis who do not believe the 1st and 2nd points are contradictory. Each belongs to opposing ends of the political spectrum - in the right there are those who think military pressure is the only way to, somehow, secure the release of the hostages. The other group is left  leaning, and it believes that withdrawing from Gaza for the release of the hostages and building a civilian opposition against Hamas Will solve the issue in the long run. They also believe the current government doesn't really want to get rid of Hamas, rather they want to make sure Hamas will remain the only Palestinian ruler in the strip, so the government has an excuse to continue the current treatment of Palestinians (both as individuals and as a people). The first group thrives on extremism and sowing division (and if this reminds you of a certain US political party and a US politician in particular, you are absolutely on the money), and the second group is trying to build on a consensus, and make room for liberal right leaning people in order to gain influence (the opposition is actually composed of two liberal right wing parties).

Oh, wait, just one other thing - There's a joke that goes: A Jewish man is stranded on an island for 20 years. He is finally rescued, and the rescuers see the life he built for himself. Among all the things they see, there are two synagogues. They ask the man "you were on this Island alone. Why do you need two synagogues for?"
The man looks lovingly at the first synagogue and says "Well, this is the synagogue where I prayed every day for someone to come and rescue me, and this" he says while looking disdainfully at the second synagogue "is the synagogue where I wouldn't be caught dead in".
Point is, Jews and Israeli Jews in particular, love to argue and have disagreements. Think The Life of Brian's The People's Front of Judea and Judean People's Front. So when I say "there are two groups", it's more like "there are about 1,000 groups that can be broadly divided in two camps".

You'd think this leads to a society that's fractured on many levels so that it can't really operate, but Israelis are also very good at putting differences aside and coming together to achieve a common goal.

So, finally, about the protests - as you may have guessed, the people who are protesting belong to the second camp. And yes, many of them think what's happening in Gaza is wrong. But remember the whole "putting our differences aside and coming together to achieve a common goal" and the "The hostages must be returned"? That's the strategy in a nutshell. The protesters are trying to use the single most agreed upon goal, and build a consensus for a deal from there. That's the reason you won't see anything about Gazans in the protests. Going outside the consensus gives the far right more ammunition to paint the protesters as traitors and to rally the moderate right against them. The push for a deal NOW (the main rally cry) will cease virtually all IDF operations in Gaza anyway, so in some of the protesters' minds (mine included), protesting against the IDF while correct in a vacuum actually goes against that very cause. Now, I don't really know US history that well, but think what would happen if the Vietnam anti-war movement made room for more conservatives on the grounds that the war is harming the US. Maybe Nixon's "law and order" campaign would have failed and he'd have lost the elections. I might be talking out of my ass here, but even if I'm wrong I hope this at least gives a better understanding about the strategy used by the protesters in Israel - they're saying "You don't have to join us because you're a hippie peacenik. You have to join us because that's what's best for our country".

I'd like to stress that the protesters are NOT hiding their opinions. They just want to make as much room for other supporters. Some people are willing to protest for a cease-fire if that means getting the hostages back, but would not be willing to protest alongside a sign that says "The IDF is killing innocent people".

So that was about the situation in Israel. If you came this far, I hope you found the read worth your time. Now I'd like to ask for a bit more of your time in return.

I have a question for the people who are protesting against Israel to stop the "genocide" unconditionally (or those who are in support of said protests), but are not protesting against Hamas to release the hostages unconditionally (or those who see no need for these protests) - I assume you don't agree with Hamas's actions on Oct. 7th, but obviously you don't believe these actions justify what Israel is doing in harming innocent people (BTW, most Israelis would agree. If you don't understand how this can be, refer to the 3rd point stated previously).

I'd like to ask why does this logic not work the other way around? If what Israel is doing is reprehensible regardless of anything Hamas has done previously and should be opposed, then surely what Hamas has done is also reprehensible regardless of what Israel has done previously and should be opposed. Is it just a matter of numbers, so there's a "minimum casualty" that justifies protests, and below that the victims are SOL?

Not saying that's the case, but that's what I was able to come up with. Maybe I'm missing some context.

And before you say that's just whataboutism - I don't think it is. Both things are a part of the same situation, so I think this is more a case of a cop seeing two cars driving on the road at night and stopping only one of them (where the driver happens to be black).

PriorityMotif ,
@PriorityMotif@lemmy.world avatar

You won't be able to find reliable information because Israel has a lot of ability to influence discourse especially online. They will kill and threaten journalists. They are the global leader in providing computer exploits and spy tools to nation-states. Don't forget that nothing happened at Tienamen square, and there is no war in ba sing se.

RestrictedAccount ,

Look at all those anti-semites. /s

impure9435 ,

They are all undercover Hamas members trying to disrupt Israel's political system /s

Prior_Industry ,
@Prior_Industry@lemmy.world avatar

Send in the NYPD!

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