someguy3 ,

Protest no voting is the reason why Hillary isn't finishing up her second term, with a solid 8 years of climate action, still having Roe, likely much better budget, likely hundreds of thousands of lives saved from covid, not facing project 2025, and who knows what else. Thanks protest no voters.

Eldritch ,
@Eldritch@lemmy.world avatar

More than that. Protest voting only works if you're vote is important to them. If you aren't a representative part of a large group of reliable voters or donors. THEY DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT YOUR VOTE. If courting you would help their margin of victory. But might alienate other more reliable voters or donors. THEY DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT YOUR VOTE. If they don't really care about your vote. Then they don't really care about your protest. Then your protest is pointless and counterproductive.

As cruel and heartless as it sounds. Resources and bandwidth are always limited. They have to put their attention and efforts where they think they will get the best payout. Trying to please a broad swath of fickle unreliable left-leaning voters generally falls outside of the good uses of those limited resources.

Literally our passive leftist protest voting is meaningless to them. Even if they lose. Meaningless to them. They will spend millions of dollars analyzing trying to figure out why otherwise reliable group didn't vote for them. If they hear that they didn't get leftist vote, they won't bat an eye.

If we want their attention. If we want their concern. We need to ingratiate ourselves. And make ourselves indisposable to them. We need some primary them. We need to replace them with ourselves. Then they will pay attention. Then they will care. Before we do any of that though. Protest voting and putting the car before the horse and completely useless.

mlg ,
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

DNC gets caught committing fraud in their own primary

"No obviously it's because not enough people voted for Bernie in the primary"

mmm yes I wonder why that is

corsicanguppy ,

I love how the same people who bitch about swapping out Bernie Sanders for being too old are the same ones bitching about not swapping out Joe Biden.

Look. Figure out his age and get the Harris/Ocasio-Cortez government in after the election when the latter half can assume the VP spot for the first of her 4 terms. No one has any illusions about who's gonna be in power after this is done, which is why the fat, old, rich, lazy, white, men are whipping their moron followers into a frenzy to prevent this regime change.

FiniteBanjo ,

You all could have voted in the Primary Elections in 2016 and 2020, but it seems like none of you do. All you do is complain about the result after almost nobody votes in the goddamn primaries.

jas0n ,

Don't think this is the place for that comment.

FiniteBanjo ,

I don't think this is the place for your comment.

ZombiFrancis ,

They really did think people were happy with how things had been going the last eight years.

The Obama-Trump voter clearly remains beyond the comprehension of a lot of people.

Eldritch ,
@Eldritch@lemmy.world avatar

There's nothing to comprehend. They don't understand how things work. And can't commit for any length of time. They want change. But Democrats having to fix Republican damage struggle to do much else. So they figure that they will vote for the opposition. But the opposition always makes things worse. So they vote for Democrats to fix and change things. Democrats start to fix things but they don't do it fast enough so they vote for the opposition. In the opposition makes things worse so they vote for Democrats to fix it and change things. The Democrats fix things as much as they can but they can't change anything so they vote for the opposition etc etc etc.

PugJesus ,
@PugJesus@lemmy.world avatar

"It was the DNC!"

Oh cool, here I thought it was three and a half million Dem voters who were more right-wing than Bernie.

I voted for Bernie. I marched for Bernie. I donated to Bernie. I love Bernie, he's a fighter and an idealist, and the world would be better if politicians like him had more influence.

But the reason he lost in 2016 wasn't because of some nebulous DNC conspiracy. It's because this is still a very right-wing electorate, even in the Democratic Party (and especially in 2016), something critics are all-too-eager to point out at every moment in time except when it offers an opportunity to denigrate the legitimacy of the less-right-wing party running.

Curious.

Dagwood222 ,

You need to understand the mentality. If they like something, then everyone in the whole world must like it, too.

naught101 ,

This article is old, but a good read:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/14/16640082/donna-brazile-warren-bernie-sanders-democratic-primary-rigged

The 2016 Democratic primary wasn’t rigged by the DNC, and it certainly wasn’t rigged against Sanders. But Democratic elites did try to make Clinton’s nomination as inevitable, as preordained, as possible. And the party is still managing the resentment that engendered in voters. “Once somebody doesn’t trust you,” sighs Buckley, the New Hampshire Democratic chair, “it’s very hard to get that trust back.”

The DNC did mess with the 2016 preselections, but the article argues that that probably benefited Sanders, by giving him much more of a platform than he would otherwise have had.

But it also seems like a footgun for the democrats as a whole, and probably contributed to the 2016 anti-establishment vibe that led to the Trump win

kamenoko ,
@kamenoko@sh.itjust.works avatar

And here I thought it was the Democrats who forgot the Midwest was still purple and planned the victory parade the minute it became clear Trump would be the Republican nominee.

Keep flapping your gums Russian troll.

Zoldyck ,

Snowden is a Kremlin asset.

niktemadur ,

Everything would be perfect! And we would all be happy!

Parallel universe horseshit is really enlightened and helpful!

kamenoko ,
@kamenoko@sh.itjust.works avatar

Gore v Bush would like a word. We gotta stop "electing" Republicans cause then some wild shit happens to America.

niktemadur ,

If Gore had not been blocked from the presidency by Jeb Bush's Florida (with its' goddamned hanging chads in the ballot) and the right wing Supreme Court purposely dragging its' feet then saying "there is no time":

  1. The threat of hijacking airplanes would have been taken seriously.
  2. Iraq would NOT have been invaded, 9/11 or no 9/11.
  3. The Kyoto Protocol (greenhouse emissions treaty) would have been honored instead of dumped, which is what baby bush did.
  4. The Army Corp Of Engineers would have had resources for dike maintenance in New Orleans leading up to Hurricane Katrina, instead of going on pointless errands in Iraq.

These are but a few of the major sliding door points, there are MANY others.
Yet lazy, stubbornly ignorant narcissistic idiots still insisted and to this day insist that bOtH pArTiEs ArE tHe SaMe LoL aMiRiTe.

These non-voters see their blood-soaked hands and sigh in contentment at their mediocre idea of purity.

kamenoko ,
@kamenoko@sh.itjust.works avatar

Gore lost the election for a lot of reasons and Florida was certainly the most important, but honestly it's the electoral college. No one wants a far right president but they don't have a choice because 10% of the electorate has completely overtaken the Republican party and it's just MAGA now.

Croquette ,

The Electoral College is the root of a fuckton of problems.

If you can become president without winning the popular vote, it's a big fucking problem.

It gives a disproportionate weight to small states, where their vote is worth more than bigger states.

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Obligatory (flashing lights epilepsy warning):

https://youtu.be/WM133A3vqLE#t=45s

PhlubbaDubba ,

Imagine cross posting the guy who's a known Kremlin stooge, even if it's only because they'd kill him if he wasn't.

mashbooq ,

It's one Kremlin stooge cross posting another, so it makes sense

deweydecibel ,

I love how the narrative focuses on 2016 and not 2020, where he lost all on his own.

PhlubbaDubba ,

Nah, he lost because the people that are still posting this shit didn't spend half the energy turning put to vote in the primaries that they do complaining about everyone who did.

Anyone else remember how "low information voters" kept coming up whenever the significantly black state primaries swung for Clinton or Biden?

Tinidril ,

An establishment cheerleader accusing the left of being condescending. That's hilarious.

krashmo ,

Are you forgetting all the primaries Sanders won early? Are you intentionally ignoring the orchestrated dropouts and back room deals that allowed the centrist wing of the party to coalesce behind Biden at the exact moment he needed them to? You must be because all you're talking about here is the great liberal paradise of South Carolina. How many EC votes did Biden win for taking SC? Oh yeah, zero because it's a red state that doesn't vote for Democrats in the general election but for some reason people like you love to point at it and pretend that a black Democrat in the South is the primary target of a DNC Presidential campaign.

PhlubbaDubba ,

I love this kvetch that basically amounts to "it's unfair that the centrists realized they had a combined majority and then acted like it!"

Your key accusation is an admission that the man was not even a winner among the party he was running in and that the only reason he was doing so well was because of the spoiler effect.

1912 must look like the most legit election in American history to you! 40% of the popular vote is plenty of a mandate for ol' Wilson!

Had Bernie had the same turnout in a system that isn't ass backwards like FPTP he would never have been able to escape second place in any of the primaries.

krashmo ,

You and I both know that the DNC exploits the system they created at every opportunity, often against the wishes of a majority of voters, in order to help centrists maintain control of the party. If you want to equate a closed primary process with a national general election in order to feel better about supporting anti-democrtatic power consolidation then that is your choice to make but it isn't the same and somewhere in that brain of yours you fucking know it. That's exactly why you will say stuff like "people didn't show up in the primaries" and completely gloss over all the polling that says they would have in the general election.

I'll never understand this "centrists win elections" take either. Obama ran on a progressive platform and won handily twice in a row. Yet as soon as his 2nd term was over you guys went back to saying progressives can't win elections as if the previous 8 years were a fluke instead of a roadmap for future campaigns. That makes no fucking sense at all. Now here we are getting ready to blame everyone who doesn't want to work with literal fascists for losing this election when all you guys need to do is listen to polling and get out of the god damn way.

sin_free_for_00_days ,

Don't forget to add the superdelegate party bullshit.

WldFyre ,

Lol y'all are hilarious

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Dude had a heart attack in 2020, that takes it out of you.

njm1314 ,

It's amazing people don't see this for the propaganda it is coming from this user.

jballs ,
@jballs@sh.itjust.works avatar

Glad Sync has the ability to tag users

njm1314 ,

Not like you really need it with that one. I don't think I've ever seen a bigger red flag name.

deweydecibel ,

Legitimately, they have an entire video sub where the spam garbage.

JeSuisUnHombre ,

To those who disagree here are some articles from 2016

https://observer.com/2016/10/wikileaks-reveals-dnc-elevated-trump-to-help-clinton/

https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/06/politics/superdelegates-hillary-clinton-nomination/index.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2016/07/25/dnc-betrayed-bernie-sanders-and-the-rest-of-america/

Dkarma ,

Classic victim blaming.

The only reason we are here is because of Republican actions not Dem inactions.

That's literally not how reality works, OP.

Shame.

can ,

If democrats could have managed to find a likable candidate in 2016 things would be different. How could you find someone more likable than Hillary?

TimLovesTech ,
@TimLovesTech@badatbeing.social avatar

The amount of disinformation funneled into the US social media platforms was also on a whole different level than ever seen before. Facebook itself spread enough disinformation and propaganda that it single-handedly helped disenfranchise a large number of people. It's really what helped create Trumps cult, and divided everyone else.

Count042 ,

Yep, it was just a messaging problem, not a reality problem.

It certainly wasn't that Clinton ran the most incompetent campaign in my lifetime. Ignoring the Midwest swing States, even as their local Democratic parties begged for support couldn't have had anything to do with it.

Her support for war, from murdering Gaddafi and wanting to start ww3 with Russia over Syria, and voting for Iraq were all just historical notes of no importance to anyone.

TimLovesTech ,
@TimLovesTech@badatbeing.social avatar

So Trump, but with Trump you also knew he was going to bring racism out of the shadow and put it on a pedestal. He also turned the misogyny up to 11. Hillary was 100% the lesser of 2 evils, but that message was lost to all the "drinking baby blood" and other complete horseshit.

MindTraveller ,

Zuck literally went to court for helping Trump get elected using big data. The Cambridge Analytica scandal was basically the plot of Watch Dogs

PhlubbaDubba ,

Yeah they should have checked likeability, maybe by holding a vote on it that everyone who wanted a say would participate in and say who they liked the most!

Surely that nasty wasty clinton wouldn't have won in a vote head to head with the living saint Bernie!

Lemminary ,

Classic victim blaming.

Yes, that's what this @jimmydoreisalefty guy does. He says he "criticizes the left from the left" but on a closer look, that's all he does. Curious.

Dudewitbow ,

Sanders polled better in swing states. States like Michigan and Winsconsin would have been a significantly closer battleground had they chosen the more charismatic person over the system choice.

The DNC picked the choice their core base wanted most, but not the choice the swing states would have voted more likely for. It isn't a game of who you want to win at times, its a game of who would have had a better chance.

PhlubbaDubba ,

They finally admit Clinton blew Sanders out of the water in the popular vote but only when they think it gives them an excuse to talk down at the stupid proles who didn't know what was good for them.

You're basically complaining that Trump got a bullshit EC win but Sanders didn't.

First the fix is in because there weren't primaries and now it's in because the DNC listened to it too much.

Anything to worship at the altar of St. Bernard, who told you shitbags to support the winner both times.

JeSuisUnHombre ,

You haven't contended with reality. It wasn't dem inactions, it was DNC actions. I made a top level comment if you'd like evidence of that claim.

ShinkanTrain ,

You think the DNC is a victim?

NoneOfUrBusiness ,

Uh... What? The DNC has always been complicit in the modern state of American politics.

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