Would you teach your kids how to pirate?

My gf and I have had discussions about teaching morals to kids. In that vein, I asked myself, would I teach piracy to my kids? Yes, it’s technically illegal and carries inherent risks. But so does teenage sex carry the risks of teenage pregnancy, and so we have an obligation to children to teach them how to practice safe sex. So, is it necessary to teach them how to stay safe in the sea? How to install adblockers, how to detect fake download sites that give you computer aids? Show them how to use a VPN and choosing the right one (a true pirate must always choose a VPN with port forwarding capabilities, so you can still seed) I feel like this is all valuable info we all learned as pirates the hard way, and valuable information to pass on to our kids.

I definitely want my kids to know about libgen. Want a book you want to read about? Wanna learn about dinosaurs from a college level textbook for whatever reason? Just go to libgen, son!

And I attribute most of my computer literacy and education to piracy, trying to install cracks to various games, trying to make games work, and modding the fuck out of skyrim as a young teenager. That, and also jailbreaking android phones. All the interesting things i’ve ever done with computers was probably against some BS terms of service.

So, is piracy something you would actively teach your kids? Sit them down and teach them how to install a Fallout 3 FitGirl repack? Or is this something you’d want them to figure out themselves?

jeena ,
@jeena@jemmy.jeena.net avatar

https://i.etsystatic.com/48270773/r/il/6413ce/5591531784/il_794xN.5591531784_jme7.jpg

Artopal ,

If I teach them, they'll find it boring. Better to be a role model and answer questions if they have them.

borzoiteeth ,

I won't have kids. I absolutely have taught other people's kids though.

jnk ,

Nobody taught me, so I'm not teaching anyone.
Nobody banned me from doing it tho, so there's my answer. Piracy is a consequence of freedom, among other things.

lseif ,

im not saying my parents introduced me to piracy, but we did have a lot of downloaded movies "from a friend"

AnarchistArtificer ,

I'm not sure. I don't plan on having kids, so this is a purely theoretical question that I won't have to answer in practice, but I think I probably would, at least to some degree.

I had a pretty iconically millennial childhood when it comes to tech; I remember my mum being on the phone to the internet people and asked "he's offering me an unlimited packaged for [money] extra. Is that good, do we need that?", to which my brother and and I vigorously nodded. We were young enough we didn't know shit, but unlimited sounded good and we weren't paying the bills. My mum probably realised we didn't know what unlimited Vs metered internet meant in practice, and opted for unlimited as the safe option, because if she felt the need to ask her children for advice, she wouldn't be great at managing a metred connection. That's the context in which I grew up and is why I'm as techy as I am today.

I learned the hard way, and whilst I don't think that's necessarily the best way to learn, I don't know how one might teach people how to recognise which "download" button to press, and when a dodgy looking site is actually dodgy. It's like internet street smarts, but what that means has changed since I was a kid, and I don't necessarily know how I'd teach that beyond the basics, like installing adblockers and other common sense things.

melpomenesclevage ,

set them up with something disposable (or at lewst that you can reinstall the OS on every couple weeks) that runs on an architecture other than x86 to avoid viruses; pi is perfect for this.

AnarchistArtificer ,

That's a really cool idea actually. I knew a guy who used to install viruses for fun on a separate machine that wasn't networked. I bet a more creative person than I could probably figure out a fun learning activity for kids using a "disposable" system

melpomenesclevage ,

sure. you create a parental control firewall, and tell them they're not allowed to see anything fun until they can get past it, and if they do, tipping off the programmeans youll look for countermeasures after a few days. here's some good leads on the right white papers for a temporary fix. good luck!

MachineFab812 ,

ANY
DAY
NOW

We pay for subs to damn near every streaming service. I am constantly having to send them the passwords or even reset the passwords(to the same password), so they can login devices they've logged on a hundred times.

JasSmith ,

I hit my limit years ago when Netflix removed the (then) very good rating system in favour of their algorithmically gamed thumbs up/down. Then they started auto playing content when one hovered over it. Then they started cutting third party movies and shows in favour of their own… content. I was paying a lot for the privilege of an inferior experience. Now I have a Plex server with everything I like in one place, no ads, and real ratings on the content. Sonarr and Radarr are my favourite apps ever.

MachineFab812 ,

I use ... Plex ... as a gap-filler, but I don't become aware of the gaps(in what-I-thought-I-had-subbed-and-actually-had-paid-access-to-for-years versus what-is-actually-still-available) anywhere near as quickly as each of my children.

FiniteBanjo , (edited )

Children playing on a computer unsupervised has to have rules and boundaries (and physical backups). No, I'm not going to teach children, who are not even in their teens, to download or install anything, ever, unless I want them to learn about ransomware specifically.

Scipitie ,

Preventing teenage pregnancy by obfuscating sex has the same idea.

I agree with the boundaries part. The second part though: they will figure it out either way... At least my brother did when he was young and our parentsgot a nice lawyer in voice for that (fucked up laws, I know, I know).

Personally I want them to learn about ransomware! If that cost me a PC... My fault.

FiniteBanjo ,

Sorry I was unclear, I meant to say I'm not teaching children who are not yet in their teens. I can see how it could be misconstrued as not teaching them even when they are teens. I'll make an edit to clarify.

I would teach teens how to torrent, about cyber-security and VMs, and how to know if something can or cannot be trusted.

Scipitie ,

Thanks for the clarification! A wish you an awesome start into the week :)

AnarchistArtificer ,

Comment that I'm adding on a couple of friends'. One lives in Norway, one lived in India. They told me that both of these places have an issue with accessing media and other digital goods legitimately, often finding themselves willing but unable to pay for something (I was surprised to hear this about Norway — my friend speculates that Norway is small enough that it might simply be forgotten about when big media companies negotiate rights). They both said that VPNs and piracy are way more normalised in their home countries, because it was either that, or miss out on loads of stuff.

Feel it's useful and important to highlight that the degree to which piracy is normalised depends on where you are.

01011 ,

I would if I had them.

It’s always advisable that you teach people how to use anything safely.

This really seems like a non-question. What is there to debate?

KillingTimeItself ,

i would teach my kids that piracy is the natural market force to push corpos and companies into ethically (or at least more ethically) distributing content.

I would also teach my kids that if one were to pirate media, they should also find a way to support whoever it came from directly, assuming it's a band or small artist, rather than something like a TV show, where it'll make no difference.

uriel238 , (edited )
@uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Media piracy is in the tradition of oyster piracy (stealing from landlords trying to control the oyster market) and the golden age (robbing the Spanish silver train that was exploiting the nations of the new world) in that it's crime against unreasonable state regimes.

This is not to say underground media sharing has always had the moral high-ground, and it's not even to say that fair copyright laws are unreasonable, but since the mid 20th century (since Disney, essentially) intellectual property law has not served the public in a community effort to build a robust public domain of ideas and content, rather has been used to do the opposite, to favor established businesses over new ones with complete disregard for the public.

But then there's the technological matter, where DRM is used to obstruct of sharing (reasonable or otherwise, legal or otherwise). Here in the states it's legal to use DRM to obstruct legal backups and sharing, but it's not legal to bypass DRM to facilitate legal backups and sharing. It shows us that our regulatory agencies are captured, that our government serves rich companies and plutocrats rather than the public. The law runs contrary to the social contract.

We are in an age in which our language (English) only has words for wrongdoing that acknowledges two authorities: Sin (wrongness against the Church -- allegedly against God) and Crime (wrongness against the state, in accordance to what laws are enforced by a legal system). When we talk about other entities that can be wrong, say, individuals, the community, the world population, ecosystems outside of human society, we have to make do with the words we have, e.g. sin against nature, crimes against humanity, and so on.

Intellectual property law is a construct that (according to the Constitution of the United States) was intended to do a thing that it has totally failed at, going as far as creating perverse incentives to misuse the law. And given the companies that produce the media we might pirate are poor at compensating artists and developers, or at recognizing licenses already established (say, your DVD copy of Ghostbusters when the new medium emerges), given they pirate each other's content shamelessly, and will steal yours outright if you can't outspend them in court, it has actually become more ethical to pirate content than to buy it legitimately.

But I'd teach my kids not just to pirate, but to recognize shoddy work from good work, and to not consume at all when they can, since consuming content benefits its producers, whether or not it's acquired legally. (The MCU is about hero-team organizations who defend the status quo from all enemies, including the far left, and including those who want the human species to have a future. So they're not really our heroes, are they? Batman runs around and beats up poor people, leaving the wealthy to continue to rule over the rest of us whose last resort is crime.

If we're going to consume content, let's use it to inspire the content we make ourselves, until commercial content is entirely unwanted and unnecessary. This is the future the MPAA and RIAA fear. Not everyone pirating their stuff, but everyone not bothered to pirate their stuff.

Edit: Clarification

aldalire OP ,

Well written!!

veniasilente ,

mods where is the "upvote twice" button?

Riyria ,

Yes, when they’re older. I’d rather be the “dad, can you find this for me?” guy, and then when they’re older and start talking about wanting to set up their own Plex server or something I’ll show them how to do it, if they even want to. I would be perfectly happy being the perma media pirate for my family.

Appoxo ,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

And what if they get a love letter because they were too stupid to practice safety?

Rinox ,

It's like sex education and education about drugs and alcohol. It's necessary information for kids, even if you don't want them to do it, because if they don't know anything about those things, they'll end up with lots of problems.

Teach them how, why and why not, be honest and then trust them to make an informed decision on their own

JasSmith ,

I’m a capitalist but even I think visual media needs a come to Jesus. If they had adopted the Spotify model everyone would be a lot happier. I would be paying for content still. Instead they broke up into a dozen different services with walled content. This is so stupid. I have no qualms keeping my own collection when this is the paid offering.

jabjoe ,
@jabjoe@feddit.uk avatar

Isn't that an argument of monopoly by Netflix would be better?

JasSmith ,

No. See Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube Music, and Tidal. They all contain something like 99% content overlap. You can subscribe to any of them and access almost all music. The difference is price, performance, UX, and features.

jabjoe ,
@jabjoe@feddit.uk avatar

I'm not sure that's true of TV series. I'm not arguing for monopoly by the way. Exclusives are anticompetitive and that's bad!

neon_commie ,

Do you own a factory or something? Believing capitalism is the best economic system does not make you a capitalist.

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