Trump attorney tells judges presidential immunity would even cover assassinating rivals, selling pardons ( themessenger.com )

US presidents cannot be prosecuted for selling pardons or assassinating political rivals through SEAL Team Six, personal Trump lawyer John Sauer argued Tuesday

Advancing a sweeping interpretation of executive immunity, Donald Trump’s attorney told a federal appeals court on Tuesday that U.S. presidents could not be prosecuted for selling pardons or assassinating political rivals through SEAL Team Six.

Trump’s lead attorney D. John Sauer argued that only a president who has been impeached and removed from office in a Senate trial potentially would be subject to prosecution for those kinds of alleged crimes.

A three-judge panel appeared extremely skeptical of Trump’s vision of absolute immunity, sharply questioning and interrupting Sauer during the opening minutes of the oral arguments with the former president himself sitting nearby.

“Could a president order SEAL Team Six to assassinate a political rival? That’s an official act–an order to Seal Team Six,” U.S. Circuit Judge Florence Pan asked Sauer.

“He would have to be, and would speedily be, you know, impeached and convicted before the criminal prosecution,” Sauer replied, setting a pre-condition for such prosecution in Pan’s hypothetical.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

So this means its open Trump hunting season for Biden, right? It is totally legal and cool for him to assassinate Trump, right??

Of course we all know they intend for this argument to only apply to Trump.

yo_scottie_oh , (edited )

No. If you read the article, you’ll see that this isn’t Sauer’s argument. It’s another ragebait title, and based on the comments in this thread, it’s working.

EDIT: Okay, I see the flaw in my thinking. Carry on.

Heresy_generator ,
@Heresy_generator@kbin.social avatar

His argument is that there would be no possible legal recourse if a US president tried to seize absolute power the way Saddam Hussein did in Iraq, by having everyone in the legislature that might oppose him lined up and shot.

yo_scottie_oh ,

Okay, I was wrong. I see the problem. Thank you.

modifier , (edited )

Oh right on, hey call it off guys and gals. This dude read the article and says democracy is going to be just fine.

Edit: much respect to anyone willing to update their conclusions based on new input.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I know Elmer always lost, but I still want to see Trump being chased by Biden with a rifle like Elmer Fudd. Real life doesn't have to imitate the cartoon.

TheDoozer ,

Here's a better question, Judge Pan.

Could a president order Seal Team Six to assassinate unsympathetic judges, either of an appeals court or the Supreme Court itself, since that's an "official act?" Because that might be something worth considering.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

This argument would, in fact, suggest that the president could order a judge assassinated. And I'm guessing the appeals court knows that.

winky88 ,

Like every other grand ol' projection, I believe this should be interpreted as a threat of things to come, not academic speculation.

Son_of_dad ,

Then they're saying it would be legal if Biden assassinated Trump right now.

undercrust ,

Sounds like these legal arguments are a win-win for anyone who isn't Trump then

Godnroc ,

Either his actions were treason and the sentence is death or his actions as president were untouchable in which case the president can shoot him without reprise. What a dangerous precedent to set!

TechyDad ,
@TechyDad@lemmy.world avatar

Only if the House didn't impeach him and the Senate didn't convict.

So Biden would also have to kill as many Congressional Republicans as possible to prevent any impeachment vote from succeeding. This "legal theory" is essentially saying "one murder might be criminally liable, but mass murder of political opponents is just fine!"

theodewere ,
@theodewere@kbin.social avatar

he can go live in Russia if that's the kind of "President" he wants

sukhmel ,

What a fitting show for this timeline it would've been to see Putin and Trump competing for the president 🤔

Lemminary ,

The US really needs to sit down and decide what the president can and cannot do. It won't be the last time magats try this shit.

go_go_gadget ,

Boomers don't think it's important so it won't happen.

randon31415 ,

Whatever 33 senators will allow and not vote to convict on an impeachment vote. Under Biden, that is what Debbie Stabenow (33rd most liberal senator) and senators more liberal will allow. Under Trump, that would be what J.D. Vance (33rd most conservative) and more conservative senators would allow.

Ghyste ,

An individual allowed to do anything without consequence is a dictator, not a president.

dangblingus ,

If we have to debate this much whether or not a President should stand trial for criminal charges, I think he did it.

abraxas ,

, I think he did it.

At this point, we're way past that line of the narcissist's prayer

vexikron ,
@vexikron@lemmy.zip avatar

And so after years upon years upon decades of rhetoric from Republicans warning about the growing power of the Executive and the abuses of the Executive by FDR...

... uh, nevermind all that apparently, if our guy is in charge he should be able to just unilaterally assasinate political rivals.

You know. Like anyone that would vote to impeach him. For assassinating political rivals.

This is literal baby brain mode that actual Elementary School children could probably understand is stupid.

Hooray for living in Clown World, the dumbest possible timeline.

dangblingus ,

Can a lawyer be disbarred for advocating for the dissolution of the Rule of Law?

RampantParanoia2365 ,

Can he be disbarred for never having seen Schoolhouse Rock ever as a child?

trackcharlie ,

So did the USA become a joke during 45's presidency or before?

LaunchesKayaks ,
@LaunchesKayaks@lemmy.world avatar

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/9527c785-aecb-4539-93b2-cd1296268475.jpeg

Tremble ,

Seal team six perched in the rafters during the state of the union address.

Biden: And now I will receive a round of applause from my good Republican colleagues. Clap, motherfuckers!

EricKHoward ,
@EricKHoward@mastodon.social avatar

@Tremble @MicroWave Saddam Hussein: how a deadly purge of opponents set up his ruthless dictatorship https://theconversation.com/saddam-hussein-how-a-deadly-purge-of-opponents-set-up-his-ruthless-dictatorship-120748

Tremble ,

Biden: taps mic….. can I get a show of hands of everyone who supports my economic agenda

_haha_oh_wow_ ,
@_haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works avatar

Completely fucking insane...

Nougat ,

Pan reframed the question to include a hypothetical where a president ordered assassination and then was not impeached, and Sauer still hung on to "impeachment has to happen first."

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

So Biden hunting down the entire GOP House for sport is up for grabs, then. It's not a coup, it's part of his official duties!

Nougat ,

This is exactly one of the scenarios that Jack Smith offered as an example of why this kind of immunity is ridiculous.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I'll just say that I have more hope and faith in Jack Smith than I was ever able to muster for fucking Robert Mueller, who had his own shady history with the railroading of Bruce Ivins over the Anthrax scare in the Bush era.

To my knowledge, despite the mountains of evidence to prove that Ivins was not "their man" the FBI continues to hold that they were correct.

Smith has proven himself to be a more serious contender than Mueller.

badaboomxx ,

I agree, and at the same time I wonder what the current president could fix the issue with the former? I mean, the current president has immunity right? /s

Smacks ,
@Smacks@lemmy.world avatar

Trump is literally scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to attorneys

n3m37h ,

Ugh, Trump dug through (metiphorically, guy couldnt actually dig) the bottom of that barrel and is now into the earths mantle

hansl ,

Can you imagine the payoff though if the court agrees and he becomes president? Assassinate your enemies, straight out of Putin’s playbook. That’s a dictator’s favorite move! Democrats and liberals wouldn’t do it because they have fucking morals, but the GOP would be happy to.

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