What do you expect, people think Hitler was good for most Germans and restored economy and made trains run on time, and the defeat part oh well. Because that's what movies show. And that's because for commies Hitler was just a variation of the west, probably less capricious, while for the west Hitler was bad, but good against commies. So both would show Nazis as being better than their opponent.
He wasn't even good for the German economy though, the Nazis produces a large GDP growth through massive military spending, they bankrupted the country well before the war was over, and had they won the war, the German economy would have crashed immediately.
Even setting aside the bit of history where the SDP party rallied around Hindenburg because of their deep and abiding fear of the Evil Russian Backed KDP party (god damn, everything old really is new again), there were three different elections from July of '32 to March of '33. The Nazis took 37% of the seats in July, dipped down to 32% in November, and then jumped to 43% the following March.
And then, what really kicked off martial law was the Reichstagg fire, which was blamed on Tankie Antifa Far-Left Communists and used to justify a Nazi-lead state of martial law. Liberals, Conservatives, and Fascists all united under a single banner in their staunch hatred of German Communism.
This was decades after German military police and Freikorps paramilitary groups under Hindenburg crushed the Spartacus League during the 1919 strike wave. The leaders of the movement - Rosa Luxemburg, Karl Liebknecht, and Franz Mehring - were executed by the police and the organizations disbanded under threat of further imprisonment/execution.
This, in comparison to the Beer Hall Pustch four years later, in which Hitler's band of low-ranking military officers were tossed in the drunk tank for nine months, before returning to politics and rapidly climbing the ranks on the basis that he'd been martyred by (((bad Germans))) who secretly controlled the government.
Gotta wonder how this compares to the 2014 BLM protests, the subsequent police crackdown, and then the string of BLM leadership "suicides" where members of the movement shot themselves in the head right before being incinerated in their cars. Or the widespread bipartisan/corporate efforts to suppress labor activism in the rail, shipping, and Amazon distribution centers, the automotive industry, and the Starbucks-centric food service sectors.
Or the feeble efforts by US government officials to arrest/convict J6ers, the hand-slap sentencing of Alex Jones and Steve Bannon, and the stubborn refusal to federally prosecute Donald Trump.
Yeah we have a lot more in common with pre third Reich Germany than people want to talk about and it's not just a voting for a crazy shouting lunatic thats making the comparison so eerily similar.
The staunch refusal to try and go left and actually make things better and give people to rally behind is gonna do a lot of the heavy lifting of moving people to the right and it's not appreciated or understood by the people who make the memes about voting for Biden regardless of anything.
Oh fuuuuck of. There are books based on actual KGB archives that were opened up. Rape of Berlin is well described. There are books about the actual bordelos attached to armies. Western armies. Soviet officers had army wives. Apparently they still do.
There are countless accounts of people prefering Nazi soldiers to soviets.
It is THE reason central and easter Europe hates russia.
No data on rapes my ass. But pleeenty of data that soviets single handedly saved the world from Nazis.
Wow, so the released KGB archives show the tapes. I wonder what would happen if the Americans or the English did that too!
Hatred of Russians by eastern Europeans is due to 30+ years of anti-communist propaganda. The fact that poles hate the USSR which liberated more than the very Nazis who genocided millions of them, shows this. And it wasn't the case 40 years ago.
Polls in France after WW2 showed 70%+ of people saying it was the USSR who saved them from Nazism. Nowadays, it's 70% Americans. That's what Hollywood and propaganda do.
Soviets were the only ones who truly supported the Spanish democracy against the fascist. Every other country, including Poland, turned their back to us while the Luffwaffle was bombing our citizens.
Soviets were the only ones who truly supported the Spanish democracy against the fascist.
Curious that their backstabbing the Spanish republicans was instrumental in losing the Spanish Civil War for the republican side. Strange kind of support.
You're on Divide By Zero, you should be fucking familiar with how they fucked the anarchists and the Trots, and that most of their 'aid' was purchased, not given.
I'm friends with everyone leftist, even if they hate each other. I can feel comfortable among anarchist, tankies, socdems, new age leftists, reformist, etc. Because I know what our common objective is and I just can't care about the subtle differences. So I know the anarchist side of the story as well as I know the tankie side.
Being myself an active member of the social movement in my country and actually having watched modern day anarchist working with modern day communists I can say without any doubts that no version is true. Probably both starting arguing about stupid shit, and actual personal problems disguised as political problems, when they should had focused on the real enemy. But anyway I'm thankful for ALL who fought against fascism in Spain, anarchist, communist, republicans... I thank the international brigades, I thank oswell and I thank the soviets and stalinist. They all put their lives on line to stop fascism.
I just despise such an unproductive and harmful division of the left for shit that just does not matter when the true enemy is so big. And sometimes I just see a lust for internal division and eternal losing in such behavior.
Because I know what our common objective is and I just can’t care about the subtle differences.
Even when those 'subtle differences' result in being backstabbed and sold out and the entire cause being lost against a fascist enemy, great. Subtle little differences, like "We need to purge the anarchists and Trots" should be met with "We need complete and total cooperation with the people who want to purge us 😊"
As I said I have actually worked a lot in environments with a diverse leftist spectrum.
And in my experience backstabbing usually goes both ways and is a result of the previous hate (and a lot of the time because personal non political issues) not the other way around.
We already had trump and biden, and country has been in structural decline since at least 2008.
It doesn't matter who is the next president since there is zero indication current policy will be adjusted in any meaningful way to to provide any relief for working people.
Beatings will continue until morale improves.
Income tax sunset from trump corpo tax cuts coupled with inflation really pinching people this year. But fake news and our dear leaders can't figure why z peasants are bitching since inflation is "down"
there is zero indication current policy will be adjusted in any meaningful way to to provide any relief for working people.
Just a reminder that Biden has been working overtime to provide student debt relief the entire time he's been in office. Republicans have been working overtime to block it.
Student debt shouldn't even exist. We need more education, not less.
Student debt relief without a reduction in prices is just funneling money to colleges with extra steps. It is an important step, Biden should be doing it, but it needs to be accompanied by serious consumer protections and price controls applied to colleges.
Sure, college education should just be a part of the regular public education system like it is in Europe. More education is a boon for the individual, society, and the economy.
The problem with the left everywhere is they don't have the balls to actually take action. They all talk about tolerance and how dialogue should make people change and be the politicians language.
No. Certain things shouldn't be tolerated. Fascism and nazism are two of those. Democracy is above anything else. If a subject is trying to undermine democracy or the institutions protecting it, they should be considered a national threat and dealt with accordingly.
The problem is that the left is afraid of being seen as "authoritarian" so when a fascist comes and openly says they want to fuck democracy until it becomes a dictatorship, leftists just say "hey now, let's sit down and talk".
No, my dude, we don't "sit down and talk" with a fascist. We punch them in the face and tell them "fuck you, if you want to be a dictator, you're a threat for our country and will be dealt with as a terrorist".
80 years ago, we argued with Nazis by shooting them. We forgot and now we're having them in our governments again.
The problem with the left everywhere is they don't have the balls to actually take action
Wait, I thought the problem is that the communists are oppressive tankies. What's the conclusion then, the left goes too far or it doesn't go far enough?
They all talk about tolerance and how dialogue should make people change and be the politicians language. No. Certain things shouldn't be tolerated. Fascism and nazism are two of those
Please tell me, which ideology do the famous and vilified "antifa", the ones who actually go and punch Nazis, espouse? Are they lukewarm Dems, are they republicans? Or are they actual leftists, both anarchists and communists?
The problem is that the left is afraid of being seen as "authoritarian" so when a fascist comes and openly says they want to fuck democracy until it becomes a dictatorship, leftists just say "hey now, let's sit down and talk".
This is true in some cases, not in others. You can argue this is true for Salvador Allende in Chile, you can maybe even argue for pre-spanish civil war Second Republic, but you can't argue this about Maoists or Marxist-Leninists. Those are as far to the left as it gets, isn't it?
Maybe the problem isn't with "the left not being active enough", but with democrats in the US and socialdemocrats in Europe co-opting the left thanks to the power of mass media? Maybe the problem is the century of anti-communist propaganda that we've suffered?
Also, Hitler had to declare a state if emergency to gain the absolute power the Supreme Court has just handed to the US president.
Suffice it to say, something lile this is impossible now in Germany. The justices of our highest court, the Bindesverfassungsgericht, can only hold the job for 12 years and can be no older than 68. They are also always equally voted in by two different branches of the government and need a two thirds majority for any decision.
Our democracy isn't without faults, but this is probably our strongest bulwark against another descent into facsism.
I think Trump will declare a state of emergency as soon as people will riot against his unjust laws. Project 2025 has something about deploying the military against the population to force through deeply unpopular laws.
Trump is a Gaddafi? Trump wants to nationalize the main sources of wealth of the country, to redirect the profits towards the majority of the population, towards education and healthcare and infrastructure? Trump is a weird form of socialist who believes in something analogous in America to the Pana-Africanism and Pan-Arabism that Gaddafi promoted?
And after the debate you have to wonder who you're really voting for. I don't believe he's really calling the shots. If it's Obama or something okay, but let's be honest.
The liberal SDP split with the communists, supporting "centrist" Hindenburg in the name of unity.
The communists campaigned on "A vote for Hindenburg is a vote for Hitler is a vote for war"
Hindenburg won the election, getting more votes than either the communist or fascist candidates.
Hindenburg, the liberal candidate, then proceeded to make Hitler the chancellor and staff positions of power with nazis while purging the government of communists.
The nazis then barely had to do anything to assert complete control.
The nazis didn't get in power because communists stayed home, they got into power because the liberals would rather work with fascists than communists.
The Nazis didn’t get in power because communists stayed home, they got into power because the liberals would rather work with fascists than communists.
Lets not bury the lede. You run weak Democrats, you comprise with fascists (or just do the policies yourself; Biden's border bill, Congressional support for making criticism of Israel a hate crime) : this is the path you put us on.
We've been saying from day one, that if Biden doesn't move to the left and use every tool at his disposal to improve people's material conditions, Trump's going to win in 2024.
Biden didn't just not go left, he tried to outflank the republicans from the right by facilitating genocide, ending covid protections, and passing the most draconian border bill since like the 40s.
This is the closest thing he could have done to handing Trump the presidency, short of appointing him VP and stepping down.
Your hyperbole is over the top. Trump’s Title 42 and Muslim ban were far worse.
POTUS has no reasonable control over grocery store prices, which is the part of the economy everyone is most concerned with. Last time an Executive Order was used to price fix the food industry, it blew up in Nixon’s face. Supply chain constraints were industry wide, and when the order expired, prices went up far past standard inflation. The other big concern is housing, which could be addressed with legislation if Democrats had congressional majority.
I completely agree about support of Israel. The only comparison is knowing Trump will be worse for Palestinians. It’s terrible to reconcile, but those are the options.
Abstaining isn’t voting for Trump, it’s refusing to stand in his way.
Biden waited 3.5 years to end title 42 and tried to close the border. He has deported more people than Trump.
POTUS has no reasonable control over grocery store prices
He literally does though. But there's a million other things he could have done when he had control. Instead we just get excuses about how powerless the party controlling both houses and the presidency was because of Manchin or the parliamentarian or the SCOTUS or some rules the dems set for themselves or norms or whatever.
There's no point in quibbling about whether Biden was less bad than trump, these actions decrease how many people will vote for him. Implementing policy that makes you lose the election is refusing to stand in republican's way.
Did you not read the second half of my comment? He ended Title 42 a year and a half after taking office. Federal judges stopped it for a year.
You wrote three and a half years.
You fabricate information in your comments often. I will always call out misinformation.
Cite your sources and stop with the lies.
Incidentally, you quoted my point about the Muslim ban in your previous comment. So yeah, we were certainly talking about it.
Biden has done plenty of good where Trump did nothing or actively worsened things for the working class, minorities, and the planet. You only select Biden’s worst policies to define his presidency.
It doesn't matter if his excuse was some court he can just ignore and face no consequences asked him to keep it in place or if did it on a whim, he had the power to change it, he didn't use it. It was in place for like 3 and a half years.
You're not calling out misinformation, you're quibbling.
You inflated his inaction on Title 42 by two years. Quibbling my ass. I’m calling you a liar. This is not the first time I’ve called you out on false information.
POTUS is the head of the Executive Branch. He has no control over the Judicial Branch other than appointing judges in the event of vacancy.
Telling them to “fuck off” is meaningless nonsense.
Also, it still wasn’t three years. From inauguration in January of 2021 to May of 2022. You seem to really want to be right. You’d probably have more success if you cited accurate information.
Telling them to “fuck off” is meaningless nonsense.
The SCOTUS has no means to enforce its decisions. It knows this and has historically kowtowed to the executive when faced with its own marginalization.
As I said, it was a year and a half when he ended Title 42. It was two and a half years due to Federal court. Your initial claim was three and a half years. Is it that hard to admit that you’re wrong?
I’m done with your repeated misrepresentation of my argument, and childish suggestions that “he can just do what he wants” and tell the judge to “fuck off.”
Read the thread you’re so confident in condemning.
I cited my statements while your friend here repeatedly made false claims.
The Mexican Border bill you’re referring to is an Executive Order, not congressional legislation. Trump’s border Executive Order was the Muslim ban. Neither of which required congressional approval, and therefore are directly equatable.
Maybe you two should get a place together in misinformation land.
If you look at many people’s material conditions during Trump and during Biden, they haven’t gotten better. You can say whatever you want about Biden’s policies, his cabinet appointments, and how much Democrats have done when they hold power, but at the end of the day it hasn’t changed most folks’ lives one bit. It might be good metric-wise, but until folks feel like they’re better off it doesn’t matter.
Also, it’s hilarious to me how much shit Republicans seem to get done even when they don’t hold the House, Senate, and White House together, but the minute Republicans get one of those, suddenly it’s “oh shit Democrats can’t do anything”. It’s like Republicans are playing with nukes and Democrats are showing up with rubber band guns.
And no, I won’t be voting for Biden, I’ll be voting third party. And I know, you think “a vote for a third party is a vote for Trump”, but I don’t give a shit. I’ve been seeing this same “at least I’m not…” shit for 25 years and watching our country be sold to the highest bidder under both parties. At this point, if we can’t figure out shit out, we deserve to be razed to the ground.
Biden didn't just not go left, he tried to outflank the republicans from the right by facilitating genocide, ending covid protections, and passing the most draconian border bill since like the 40s.
This is one of the worst examples of confirmation bias I have ever seen. The Biden Administration's entire record is out there for you to peruse, and you pick 3 things out of hundreds, possibly thousands, that you think justify your comparison.
During Hitlers Ascent to Power, the communist still considered the SPD to be the bigger threat and refused to march with them. And the SPD of the 1930 were by no means "liberals". They were further to the left than any democrat has ever been.
the communist still considered the SPD to be the bigger threat and refused to march with them
...which was confirmed when they agreed with the Nazis... And when they collaborated with the Freikorps to crush, torture, and murder the communists.
And the SPD of the 1930 were by no means "liberals". They were further to the left than any democrat has ever been.
Go ask Rosa Luxembourg, leader of communists in Germany and murdered at 47 at the order of SPD, how progressive and left the SPD was. "Left is when you agree to murder and torture communists". Fucking revisionists man
They agreed with Hitler? They were the only faction voting against him during the Gleichschaltungkrise.
"Left is when you agree tp torture and murder communists". So we both agree that the Stalinist Sovietunion and the KPD, which allied themselves with them arent left?
No, both SPD and KPD were way to the left of all pther political parties and had they banded together, like they did during the Kappputsch, my homecountry wouldnt have been destroyed and 60 Million People would probably still be alive. After every other institution failed Germany, these two failed them in conjunction by not even trying to organize a joined force.
So we both agree that the Stalinist Sovietunion and the KPD, which allied themselves with them arent left?
One country ended up with Nazis. The other ended up defeating the Nazis. I'd say the Bolsheviks did a better job, didn't they? The fact that there was oppression against Mensheviks and SRs in the context of a civil war, doesn't mean they're anticommunists, they didn't quite literally enable the Nazis in order to murder the ones who were more communist than them, but defeat them instead.
Want to find the blame for Nazism in Germany? The fault is primarily of Nazis, and then of Nazi enablers, and then of anti-communist leftists.
It looks a lot like in a way History is repeating itself: the Democrat Establishment in the US (who are a hard neoliberals, not lefties) fielded directly and without a Primary a guy like Biden who is less than in his prime and even supports an ethno-Fascist regime commiting Genocide (and, more importantly, is unwilling to walk back on that support even to improve his odds of winning against Trump, which is what we are being told is the most important thing in the World) all of which is making it far more likely that the Fascists will get power.
There are vast contradictions between what we are being told is the danger of Trump getting elected and the DNC and Biden persistently making choices that increase the chances of Trump getting elected and not walking back on those.
Surelly if "Stop Trump" is the most important thing in the World for them, the Democrat Establishment too would be walking towards the wishes of the electorate not just trying to push the electorate to do all the walking towards the wishes of the Democrat Establishment.
