Fun fact: Abbott sells methylphenidate chlorohydrate with a retardant effect so that it lasts for approximately 16 hours instead of 4, and they called it Aradix Retard lmao. I know why they called it that but I can't help but laugh every time I see it.
Blahaj.zone admin here. Let me make this simple and clear. I don't care what specific word you use, if you are using intellectual disability or neurodivergence as an insult, you're going to get moderated.
If I call you "stupid," "moronic," or "intellectually bankrupt" you know what I'm saying. Getting offended by the specific wording of an ad hominem, while giving synonymous terms a pass, is truly some of the finest hair-splitting I have ever had the displeasure of seeing.
Imagine calling the difference between people who do stupid things and people who are born with diagnosed mental illnesses "splitting hairs".
It's very, very simple. In one case, you are attacking someone who is completely in control of their mental facilities. In the other, you are attacking people who are literally incapable of defending themselves, from birth. They are not synonymous. If you think that level of punching down is okay, then be as indignant and self-righteous about it as you want, but you deserve to be told.
Intellectually-disabled people were originally defined with words such as "morons" or "imbeciles", which then became commonly used insults.
I don't see anyone getting a ban anywhere for calling someone a "moron," for any other reason than making an ad hominem. The thought is almost laughable.
So, we're just going to pretend that language doesn't evolve because it justifies your bias?
People didn't put their foot down when the meaning of those words began to shift, and now they mean something entirely different. In our more socially and culturally aware culture, we as a people understand nuance and are generally educated enough to see what's happening. We have by and large decided that it's a bad thing to continue normalizing attacking the mentally disabled.
Fuck off with your pseudo-intellectual defense of toxic, dehumanizing culture. Words mean things. The things they mean can change. Those ones, in a less educated and accepting time, did. The ones we have now have not. Your attempt to dismiss that is genuinely hateful.
This is the argument I see to defend use of the word and I've never understood it. Where I am (west coast-ish of the US), the word is used very specifically to mean autistic. If you ask someone not to say retard, they say autistic instead. If you ask them not to say autistic, they say special education. If not that, slow. If not that, someone who takes the short bus. Unambiguously the people here use the r slur as a slur against autistic people. They use it as an insult towards allistic people to degrade them as lesser. Same as calling a straight person the f slur. Maybe it's different in other parts of the country, but the r slur is absolutely used as a slur against autistic people where I am.
the constant reality is that hateful losers just want to be verbally disdainful and othering to the disabled, and they will do whatever they can to keep doing it even if it means changing their language
the model of the “euphemism treadmill,” while accurate, is just another tool spiteful people use to justify saying spiteful derogatives
Without a doubt, there are hateful, spiteful losers who not only use but take pleasure in using language with the specific intent of causing maximum harm.
In spite of this fact, there I think it’s worthwhile to call out exceptions exist - since a plan of attack has the best chance of success when the full context, the entire enemy, is known. The last person I heard use the word IRL is:
kind and generous
thoughtful, otherwise respectful, well mannered
(a leftist pacifist vegan)
friends with a wide, diverse cross section of humanity
But I know they grew up around the word and haven’t seen someone it’s hurt, so they used it like they’d use any other word - without intent to harm, just ignorantly.
I’d take tips on how best to counsel them if it comes up again. I think exploring their potential blindspot (no/few disabled friends?) would be part of my strategy. Thankfully they are not just some hateful piece of shit because it wouldn’t be worth my time talking at a wall if they were. They will at least be open to entertaining an argument about the potential impact of their words even in able-bodied/minded company. Thankful that’s the kind of person they are! And when we accurately assess people it gives us our best shot at righting our collective vocabulary.
South Park did a whole episode about this with "fag" nobody is using the word to insult actual homosexuals (except hateful bigots I suppose) just like nobody us using the word "retard" to slur the disabled. (again apart from the bigoted assholes) if I say something that offends someone, then they can tell me and I'll apologize. But I don't need someone policing my language just in case someone might be upset by a word.
So I think we can be preemptively told not to say the word on social media. (RE: “if I…offend someone…I'll apologize”) When you’re talking to your best friend in your car though it’s probably hard to demand you police yourself (in the example you never use the word in public, and neither you nor your friend ever will no matter how much you say it privately). So it shouldn’t be a thought crime kinda but probably appropriate to avoid it in public or unfamiliar company.
Curious what you think of that take spujb - “tree falls in the forest …”
when an entire disabled community gets together and tells abled people that the word carries hurt, that should be more than enough evidence. if that’s not enough for a person, my only suggestion is to look inward and ask why they are so quick to doubt the personal statements of lived experiences of thousands of disabled folks.
regarding the “tree falls in the forest” thing—i literally don’t care. arguing it just gives bad vibes; some arguments you lose the moment you try to debate bro them. like i remember this one streamer who was like “but what if i said the n word in the vaccum of space where no light or sound could escape” and it’s just like bro the fact that you touch so little grass to the point you are arguing about this tells us all we need to know about you.
I understand not calling disabled people the word, because mocking people for something about themselves they didn't choose (like a disability) is cruel, I am totally on board with never using words in this way to target disabled people.
I don't understand why I can't use the word to mock someone who is not intellectually disabled for choosing not to use their perfectly well-functioning brain, it seems like a very apt analogy. It communicates "you aren't disabled, you have no excuse for acting like it, start choosing to use the fully functional brain you have".
Additionally, only the "r-word" seems to be the bad one, despite there being many other words in our language that originally began as a medical descriptor for intellectually disabled folks. If I call someone a moron for running a red light because they're playing with their phone nobody bats an eye, but if I call them the "r-word" I'm a terrible person?
nobody is going to arrest you for using the word, and many people will celebrate you using it. The problem is those people are mostly assholes. The word you should be thinking about is "audience".
I've come to use this more as well. There's never a real need to insult someone's intelligence, but there is often a need to point out when someone is acting like a fool.
What is wrong with calling people unintelligent when they are doing unintelligent things that are directly causing me problems (for example, people on their phones blowing through red lights?) If someone tries to change lanes into me and I say "are you blind? You almost hit me!" is that similarly bad?
I've been called dyslexic before as a slur a few times. I laughed every time and explained that I am dyslexic.
Zero times have I ever, EVER cared that someone used this word like this. Why? Because they are human beings that saw symptoms and thought it was funny.
Is dyslexia funny? Yeah, sometimes. In the same way, there are some hilarious characters that are blind. Our differences don't have to be something we're constantly defensive about. Humor is a very human reaction to coming to terms with such things.
Some people just need to take a step back and realize it's okay to inject these things into humor, IF you do it tactfully, and with a measure of compassion.
I could not agree more! I hope you re-read what you just wrote.
Edit: Wow... that was a really dishonest edit you just made. You literally edited your comment so it looks like I'm conceding my position, and you didn't even put "Edit" in there. I think we're done here... if you're doing things like this, then nobody on this platform should be conversing with you seriously.
I've reported you for that. No person on Lemmy should be permitted to edit their comment to make the person they are having a cordial exchange with seem like they agreed to something they didn't agree to.
I saw you block others in this thread purely because they disagreed with you, so this isn't too shocking... but still, shame on you.
what annoys me is that no one cared about this until Sarah Palin made a big deal out of someone calling her that and she pretended to get offended for her baby with down syndrome as if it was targeted on them.
but I'm also ok with never saying it again. not a big loss who cares. at least we got a legendary Linus clip out of it.
that's not what we're talking about. as the original commenter said, using the r word to refer to any mentally challenged person was already a no-no. that law changed official use of the word, not the r word itself used as an insult.
law reflects society. just providing a timeline for things, the word as an insult was a problem starting well into the 90s so it’s absolutely absurd to blame it on sarah palin in 2013.
Using a slur to insult someone, regardless of if they are a member of that group, shows that you view it as an inherently negative trait, and that people should be ashamed of being a part of, or associated with, the group.
I agree completely with this. This campaign to make this word just as bad as the "n word" is absolutely ridiculous. I've brought this up with a lot of people, and I've yet to meet someone in real life who genuinely thinks this word should be censored in this manner.
Look I usually only lurk because im too anxious but I have to say something.
Your logic is the exact logic my neo nazi family use. (not an exaggeration, I grew up around the klan)
"If they act like an N word, why cant I call them an N word, its not like im racist, i call stupid/criminal/bad whites N words too."
So i think anyone who uses this logic to justify a slurs usage should take a moment for self reflection.
(This is coming from someone who is queer and will use queer slurs only in certain company, in private, where everyone involved is aware and into it. (and even then I get uncomfy, especially when im in a new group and I don't know people and they start throwing words around.))
(Also to add I was one of those "slow" kids who has alot of history with the cruel things my family and others called me.
if you use the r-slur around me, even if its not directed at me, it hurts, and it makes me feel less safe with you, because of the way that word has been used to specifically target me for hatred based on my neurotype. plus there's the fact that you acknowledge it to be a mean word for disabled people, and if you're using it as a weapon against non-disabled people, you're really saying 'haha, you're like those disabled people, and that's terrible.' i hope you can see how this probably doesn't feel so good to a lot of us?
I know so many people who adamantly stand by their use of it. I used to say it, too, but all it took was one person to point out to me that it was hurtful and I apologised and stopped no questions asked. I don't get why it's so hard to just have a little empathy.
it does tend to be a good litmus test for disempathy, sadly. obviously there are outliers, but if one can’t take a tiny correction to like 0.01% of their vocabulary, color me not surprised when that same person starts talking about the immigrant problem or women’s place in the home or something :(
i used to think it was okay for me to say as i'm disabled. what i noticed, though, is that my doing so 1) communicated to my abled peers that it's okay for them to say as well & 2) made me appear as a pick-me; i was perceived as "one of the good ones."
the r-slur has been causing a very visceral reaction in me for years & i will continue to report each & every instance of it.
That's the problem I have when people of that slur use it. And worse, they act like it's not a big deal. There's offensive words I can use because of my skin tone that would absolutely get any non-colored person choked out.
But you nailed it. If I brush it off like it doesnt offend/isn't a disgusting word, then I am giving permission to others that it's okay to say.
Here’s the way I see it: to most people, that word is not linked to a disability. It’s just a word to describe bewilderment or exasperation at someone, something, some situation. It’s not intended to be hurtful.
I have a disability as well. I see about twenty percent of what normal people see. I’m pretty much blind without my contacts or glasses. I don’t get offended when someone uses terms like ‘short-sighted’ or when someone says ‘are you blind?’ to someone else. We also use seeing metaphors quite a lot if you pay attention to them. I’m not offended by it, because I know the language is not intended to offend me.
I’ve also worked with people who had actual mental disabilities. And trust me, most of them know damn well when something’s intended as an insult or when it’s just metaphorical use.
I hope that most people can look past it in the same way but unfortunately intent doesn't change how hurtful some things can be. And it's still language that serves to otherise a group of people. Just like the N and F words which have both declined heavily in use (at least since I've been alive).
The way I look at it is that my want to use certain words does not outweigh other people's feelings. English is full of fun and interesting things to say, we can get a bit more creative than just using slurs.
It was offensive even way before that. I remember us not serving a customer at the fast food place where I worked because he used it around my co-worker whose brother had Downs Syndrome.
I've never really associated with people who use that word.
Lemmy seems to be pretty good about not using it, though. Reddit, on the other hand...
Edit: After reading this thread, I take it back. There are some straight up disgusting people in this community who really, really want to use the r-slur.
it absolutely was offensive way before that. from my understanding 2009 was the year there was a unified push to change things across the language though :)
also wow reddit was worse? i won’t lie i never saw it there in the past decade but perhaps i was browsing more wholesome subs than some
but yeah on lemmy it’s not an exaggeration to say i come across it (used as a slur, not in an aviation sense, children 🙄) almost hourly. in another thread i am getting dogpiled with downvotes for asking politely not to use it in a derogatory way.
Every time I've reported it on lemmy, I've seen it removed by mods, but I guess there are a lot of communities here I just don't visit.
Reddit had a very popular sub with the r-slur in its name, and I saw it a lot on CTH (don't ask me why I ever visited that sub -- I ask myself, and I have no answer lol).
And yeah, Rosa's Law was 2010, but even dating back to the 70s people were abandoning its use. I recall my brother having to write an essay about people with disabilities when he used it in school in the 90s (not that I approve of using writing as a punishment).
it does get left up by certain mods here 😭 part of the reason for posting this
in my individual non authoritative opinion OKBR gets grandfathered the pass but only because it’s used in a purely non offensive context. the mods there did a good job of that.
hereabouts though i’ll see like, a thread argument about cross stitching and boom, r-slur used as a derogatory. like come on kids this isn’t kindergarten lmao.
Try telling that to a text filter or a moderator on a power trip. They won't give a rat's ass about "to retard" meaning "to reduce or hold back." Even the linked article fails to make the semantic distinction when it calls for the elimination of the word.
If this comment disappears, it will have proven my point.
And a bitch is a female dog, I know. There's a factor of intention, a.k.a mens rea, a.k.a guilty mind that separates right from wrong based on why a person does something. It's this sort of inconvenient nuance that dealing with absolutes doesn't allow.
and there’s a matter of intention to me blocking you, too. literally no one disagrees with you, not even me. i am not calling for an “absolute” anything
your sophomorisms are literally just being posted to give you an excuse to type le edgy words. and worst crime of all you’re not doing it even in a funny or thoughtful way, you are just being mean about it. take care and i hope to me is the most unkind you will be to anyone all day.
Yup. I was perma banned from /r/politics over on Reddit years ago for using this word in a way that had nothing to do with people.
It was used in a literal manner, with the definition of how I used it meaning "to delay or hold back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment."
I tried to appeal, and I was labeled "ableist". It was the dumbest shit I've ever experienced on Reddit prior to the piggy ruining the platform.
They probably chose the language for that call-out way before 2009. Airplanes can live for thirty years, and type designs can keep going several decades longer
The designers were also likely to be French, but they selected English call-outs. This seems to me like a case where they picked a word that's technically in the OED l, but is actually much more common in French.
I mean, if it’s a valid word for what they want to say, then I don’t really see a problem. It’s pronounced the same, but it’s a completely different word.
Just don't use it to refer to people and you're golden. There are many slurs that are also legitimate scientific terms, like how fag(g)ot is a bundle of sticks, or how in physics you have the Advanced and the Retarded Green's functions.
no hate to you but i do hate that this is one of the default responses the internet has chosen when discussing this language (twice now in this thread)
one is a noun/adjective, the other is a verb. entirely different words that simply have the same Latin root. one is used in a professional context in an industry nearly none of us are familiar with, the other i come across as a derogatory on this site pretty much hourly. please let’s grow up a bit about this.
(again no hate to you specifically commenter, it was a funny joke and i just want to call out the broader trend)
It probably gets annoying as a bystander, but I don't have a lot of opportunities to bring aviation into the rest of my life. Especially in a way that's mildly funny.
