lltnskyc

@lltnskyc@monero.town

This profile is from a federated server and may be incomplete. For a complete list of posts, browse on the original instance.

Lemmy.ml tankie censorship problem

I feel like we need to talk about Lemmy's massive tankie censorship problem. A lot of popular lemmy communities are hosted on lemmy.ml. It's been well known for a while that the admins/mods of that instance have, let's say, rather extremist and onesided political views. In short, they're what's colloquially referred to as...

lltnskyc ,

You don't see even a bit of hypocrisy in that? Holy shit...
I have exactly the same complaint about lemmy.world - it's censuring everything that doesn't align with leftist views (and on the other hand, when I post on lemmy.ml it's usually not deleted).
Oh I know, I know, let me guess, they are censoring people because they are evil and authoritarian and are bad people, but you are censuring people because you are all democratic and for freedom and so on and anyway the ones that get censored are tankies and fascists and russian bots/propagandists?...
https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2355607-our-blessed-homeland-their-barbarous-wastes

lltnskyc ,

they delete truthful responses that contradict their ideology

That is EXACTLY what is done on lemmy.world.

lltnskyc ,

Nice, didn't know there was a possibility to see deleted comments, thanks :)
(not every deleted comment is there though, but enough to show the total hypocrisy of lemmy.world)

lltnskyc ,

Oh yeah definitely, I forgot that one - everything they say is a misinformation, no matter the included sources and any proofs, and everything we say is the purest truth possible!
Seriously, it's like the meme was created exactly for this post 🙃

lltnskyc ,

Okay, that's fair enough.
Still, complaining about censorship while engaging in censorship is hypocritical 🤷

lltnskyc ,

Oh yeah, that's the other one, thx!
I did not even get a notification for that comment why it was deleted, but now I see, and sure enough - it's misinformation (despite providing 5 or 6 links to sources in a comment below, including reputable western (!!) media and tens/hundreds of footages...). 🤷‍♂️

lltnskyc ,

ban difference of thoughts, opinions, and beliefs

That's exactly what lemmy.world is doing.

lltnskyc , (edited )

They can’t engage with any topics or offer counter arguments. Every response is:

Calling people fascists, insulting and using ad hominems is lemmy.world's thing.
The comment section to this is mind-blowing, really.
All the things of which users of lemmy.world are accusing other instances, is exactly what your instance is doing.
And you don't even see the hypocrisy...

lltnskyc ,

So, most of the fediverse instances don't deserve attention is the fediverse? That's an interesting take :)

lltnskyc ,

I’ve been banned from .ml for being a ‘racist’ for being anti-Xi, despite the fact that I am Chinese, and pointed out my ethnicity as such in the discussion.

And I've been censored (not yet banned, but I guess it won't take long till that as well) on lemmy.world (and beehaw) for spreading "misinformation" about Ukraine, despite being a Ukrainian and actually reading (and sharing) the local news of what's actually happening there, contrary to the government propaganda.

lltnskyc ,

Authoritarianism cannot be tolerated.

Except when it suits your agenda, in that case it's not only tolerated, but actually encouraged! :)

lltnskyc ,

And I received no such treatment from LML users (but do receive such treatment with almost every comment at lemmy.world and similar instances).
Hm, can it be because both instances just censure the opposite opinions and label it as misinformation resulting in echo-chambers and both groups believing their own (false) truth?..
Nah, no way, after all we are the good ones and the other side is bad and is censoring the truth while we are censoring misinformation and propaganda 🤦

lltnskyc ,

You're bored of people pointing out your hypocrisy?
But it's not surprising, you're not supposed to be entertained by it, you're supposed to think about it..

lltnskyc ,

Oh well, prepare for the downvotes now, I guess..

lltnskyc ,

I’m curious if you’ve ever pushed back against the grain of lml or if perhaps your opinions already align?

I never post about communists and stuff, I post about horrors that are happening in Ukraine (not the ones that are committed by Russia, but by Zelensky's regime with support from the west), and I guess it so happens that it aligns with their narration of anti-imperialism/anti-USA (that's why I'm not censored and generally agreed with there), but it totally misaligns with heavily left-leaning views of lemmy.world and similar instances who think they are the good guys and are helping Ukrainians instead of slaughtering them (and that's I'm censored and generally disagreed with and even called fascist here).

How many threads are there on LML about being banned from lemmy.world?

I guess being banned/censored from left-leaning communities is so not surprising anymore that people do not even see a point in doing so? I see no point in creating such a thread. But that's just my opinion.

lltnskyc ,

But downvotes aren’t the same as admins banning you based purely on difference of opinion, let’s not conflate the two. This thread is about the latter, while downvotes are just another form of free speech.

But I don't complain about it and don't conflate the two! I totally agree that downvotes is just another form of free speech.
That was just ironic "you agreed with me that censuring people is wrong and now people are going to show you how wrong you are" kind of thing, I have nothing against downvotes (I mean I'd prefer people try to engage in a civil conversation instead of that, but I'm definitely not forcing anybody to do anything, downvote away) :)

lltnskyc ,

Suffice it to say it seems like you already agree with the de facto LML stance: west is evil.

Yep, that's correct. (btw I definitely do not associate myself with communists, it's just that we agree on this particular point)

This position seems to divorce Ukrainians of any agency in determining their future.

It doesn't! Those who want to fight, should definitely fight, and I don't argue against west supporting those who want to fight with weapons, training, and whatever else. It's actually the west that is not giving Ukrainians any choice in determining their future (see text below).

Are they not entitled to defending the sovereignty of their nation?

Again, they absolutely are! I totally support right for self-defense.

Who are you (or I) to tell them under what circumstances they should be allowed to push back against an invading force such as Russia?

Absolutely correct again and I totally agree with you, nobody should be able to prevent people from "pushing back against an invading force".

They are a sovereign nation that agreed to the Budapest memorandum and regardless who supplies them with weapons they can determine for themselves their destiny. It isn’t for us to adjudicate from some kind of moral high ground which parts of Ukraine should be sliced off to the highest bidder even if the bullets they fire are made in capitalist imperialist evil America.

Again, totally agreed.

The thing that I'm trying to say, and the thing that I'm getting called a fascist for, is that it is not "west is supporting brave Ukrainians who want to defend their nation and fight Russia to regain the occupied territories at all cost" it is "west is supporting Zelensky's regime (which I also consider absolutely illegitimate and authoritarian, their terms have expired, they ban all the opposition, they refuse elections, etc.) which forces people to fight by forbidding people to leave the country (which has already lead to many deaths of people who tried to escape this hell by crossing rivers/mountains and not making it), and kidnapping people on the streets, putting them into vans and sending them to the frontlines to die, and making the rest fear of going out" (you can find footages and sources for all of that if you visit my profile's comments, but lemme know if you want me to repost it again here).

lltnskyc ,

I’m apparently a hypocrite because wanting action to be taken to stop authoritarians from controlling social networks makes me the real authoritarian or something

No, you're a hypocrite because you see "them" censoring "you" and you scream "censure, you can't do that!!", but when it's "your" side is censuring "them", then you have no complaints, because obviously "your" censure is good, and their is "bad".

Or maybe I'm wrong and you're against censure in general? :)

lltnskyc ,

Right, so basically it's okay for countries to be authoritarian, it's okay to slaughter thousands of people and making everybody else live in constant fear, as long as the government aligns itself with the west.
Why would I blame Russia? It's not Russia, it's not Putin who is kidnapping people of the streets in Ukraine and sends them to die. It's Zelensky's regime.

Very cool and humanitarian and obviously I don't agree with that. But out of curiosity - can you please explain to me why is North Korea different?
It is also officially still in a state of a war with South Korea. Does it mean Kim Jong Un is suddenly also a hero that leads his country against the enemy? It doesn't matter that people are trapped there, it doesn't matter that people may not support him, all the atrocities committed by him do not matter as well, because they are in a war, am I right?

lltnskyc ,

but actually the opposite is trying to reach out to NK and stabilise relations

That's just super fucking ironic, considering that Russia never stopped saying that they are open to negotiations (and the very first peace deal was actually they they go back to before-2022-invasion borders) and it is Zelensky who always refuses to negotiate and instead sends more Ukrainians to die.

lltnskyc ,

Oh you mean the deal where they tried to make their seizure of Crimea legitimate?

This has already happened, and is going to stay that way, whether you or I or anybody else likes it or not...

So it woudn't have changed anything, except, you know, such a tiny little details as hundreds of thousands of lives.

lltnskyc ,

It seems to me you have more of an issue with the concept of the draft

I do have an issue with killing people (because that's what draft is - you force somebody to go war, where they die) who done you no harm, indeed.

Some people are pacifists and radically opposed to any type of armed conflict

I'm not and I don't really care about what other people do to each other, as long as both parties consent, they are free to wound, murder, rape and do whatever else to each other - "whatever makes your boat float" or something..

But there are valid arguments for the draft too, so you can’t just write them off by painting Zelenski into some type of tyrannical despot.

Is there something one can't provide a valid argument for?
For one, slavery is extremely good for the economy, if we enslave all the black people (or anybody else, black is here just to make a point) we can have lots of goods and services for fraction of the cost for example, we will solve the unaffordable housing very quickly and many other problems, wouldn't you agree?
And yet, I guess, if somebody does that - people will probably argue that that person is a tyrannical despot or something?
Zelensky effectively enslaved the Ukraine, where people are forced to do what he says, can't leave, and so on, and yet I wrong to say he is a tyrannical despot?

The country is already in the midst of a full fledged war and elections don’t typically occur in time of war.

I am not too well-versed to really argue that point, but quick googling "are elections held during wartime" paints a mixed picture really, and says that at least in case of US it did hold elections during wars.

If your thesis is ...

My point is a little bit different than simple "draft is not okay" (although that is definitely included) - people in the west are thinking that by helping the Ukrainian government they are helping Ukrainians to survive, and I am trying to tell people that it is exactly the opposite, and by supporting our government, they are only contributing to more of us dying and suffering (and so, I consider them directly responsible for all the deaths), as simple as that.
I'm having a problem with this narration of "helping".
If the narration was honest, like "let's support Zelensky's regime and supply him with weapons, because we want to harm Russia no matter the cost and no matter how many Ukrainians die" then it'd be a different conversation, but it isn't.
So, I guess, my point is trying to make people admit that this ^ is the case, and not "but we are helping Ukrainians and you are a russian bot!" 🤷‍♂️.
Thanks for the advice tho, I suppose you are right that I should be more precise when articulating a position.

lltnskyc , (edited )

On another note, are you Ukrainian by any chance brother?

I am. Although nobody believes that because I don't praise our glorious Lord and Savior Zelensky.

I really feel for you and I can tell that the draft is reality and not a joke for you if that’s the case.

Thanks man, really appreciate it! It's rare to hear that on this instance :(

I hope I wasn’t rude

You are perfectly reasonable, I wish the rest of the instance could participate in a civil discussion instead of name-calling and ad hominem.

stay safe

Thanks again man.
I am safe, as I've left Ukraine before the war started, so unless other countries start cooperating with Zelensky's regime and kidnap people from the streets [and send them to Ukraine to die] there is no threat for me.
Unfortunately it's not true for some of my family members, my friends, and millions of Ukrainians :(

lltnskyc ,

Sure, and not just one!
Here is a collection of footage of people being kidnapped from the streets, put into vans and sent to die: https://uadraftmuseum.ch/
Here is a recent news (in ukr, so please use a translator) that now they will be breaking into people's homes to do the same: https://focus.ua/voennye-novosti/650441-mobilizaciya-po-novomu-voennaya-policiya-smozhet-zahodit-v-zhile-i-voznagrazhdat-za-pomoshch
And a few more links about how people are trying to survive this hell, and how people are dying trying to escape:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ukraine-urgently-needs-soldiers-but-some-men-are-desperate-not-to-fight/ar-BB1naQUE
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-war-recruitment/32310040.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66542065
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/15/bribes-and-hiding-at-home-the-ukrainian-men-trying-to-avoid-conscription

lltnskyc ,

Oh, gotcha!

Sorry for being confusing, by "posting" I actually meant "commenting", I don't really post anything.
You can see all comments in my profile, but I guess due to way lemmy works you can only see all of them if you open it through my home instance? idk, but here's the link: https://monero.town/u/lltnskyc

lltnskyc ,

Russia.

Now, I answered your question, would you please be so kind to answer mine now, which is also quite simple?

If there are two men, man A is simply operating a meat grinder while man B kidnaps people from the streets (soon he will start breaking into people's homes as well), forcefully pushes them into the meat grinder, and watches to make sure they can't get out of it, he also makes sure nobody leaves the city so that he can continue his game, who do you blame more for deaths of people in the meat grinder?

lltnskyc ,

The man who operates the meat grinder? The man who started the business of shoving people into a grinder???

Those are two different people though.

lltnskyc ,

Telling people what's actually happening in my country, and then getting called a fascist because it doesn't align with what their very-independent and very-honest and totally-not-biased media tell them.
That could have been fun if it wasn't really sad :(

lltnskyc ,

Aaaaand yeah, that's exactly what I was talking about ^ :/

And you know the funniest shit about that?

wikipedia:

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy

That's exactly, like exactly what I argue against, and those who call me fascist argue in favor.
I'm getting labeled fascist by actual fascists XD

lltnskyc , (edited )

Yeah, that's true!
And then anyone can point out (and of course quote the exact text I've said without ripping it out of context and/or rephrasing it in their own words) which of the things I said makes me fascist :)
For some unknown (although deducible..) reason nobody has done that so far though, everyone prefers ad hominem attacks.. Hm.. It's almost like actual by-definition fascists call me fascist just to make me look bad but have no arguments to support their claims.. Weird, we all know the intellectuals of lemmy would be never do that :)

lltnskyc ,

Yeah, so that's exactly what I'm talking about, just insults and complete lack of ability to have a normal discussion :(

So, if you have not moved on yet (if you have and/or are not willing to continue the conversation - please still think about it, it's important for self-improvement) - I have just one question for you. In theory, if you were believing in something that is not actually true (of course this is impossible, as you are clearly intelligently superior than me and your every belief is correct, but let's pretend otherwise just for the sake of a thought experiment), how would you expect to learn the truth, if you refrain from engaging in a civilized argument and call people that disagree with you trash and fascists?
For example, if you lived a few centuries ago, and believed that Earth is flat (which is a normal thing to believe at that time btw, because that was the consensus of the majority) and you called everybody who says it's round a fascist (at that time it would rather be heretic, but it doesn't matter), how do you imagine a scenario where you learn the truth?
Or are you saying that you don't care about learning the truth?

lltnskyc , (edited )

What country are you from?

I'm from Ukraine. You can find a little bit more info about that in my other comments - but TLDR is that thankfully I have left it before the war started, some of my family managed to escape it (illegally of course, going through the occupied territories and then through Russia, it's a mass prison now for most of the men there), but some are still trapped and trying to not get caught by the government, because if they do (and don't have enough money for a bribe), they will be sent to the front lines and probably die.

I don’t see any fascist comments in your profile

Cool, thanks, glad to see someone here with whom it's possible to have a conversation without getting called a fascist :)

but you do seem extremely pissed off that Ukraine is defending itself from Russia.

I am not pissed about Ukraine defending itself from Russia. I absolutely support the right of everyone, both people and nations, to defend themselves against an invader! I also never said that Russia are the good guys (and yet, I'm getting labeled Russian propagandist/bot as well, just saying that Russia invaded Ukraine and there is a war is a punishable offense in Russia for which I'd be sitting in jail 🤷).
The problem is, it's not "Ukraine defending itself from Russia".
There is this propaganda from Zelensky's regime that we are all volunteering to defend our country against "orcs", and he is the hero that leading us into this battle. This is as for from the truth as it gets. We want peace, which he doesn't even try to achieve (and why would he? War is what allows him to stay in power and steal millions, or likely billions of dollars). His regime needs to resort to kidnapping people on the streets and sending them to the front-lines to die. Some are refusing this and are getting sent to prisons where they are tortured. Some are trying to escape by the mountains/rivers and are dying while trying to do so. So yeah, what I'm pissed about is that the current government, supported by the west, may kill my family or my friends any day now, just like they already killed tens/hundreds of thousands already.
If it was like Zelensky's propaganda is saying where we are defending our country, and our country was not turned into a mass-prison, I'd be sending donates to AFU every freaking month. But in this reality, any support for the current government of my country is equivalent to supporting my family/friends getting killed, and as you can imagine I am not going to do that, and trying to discourage everybody else from doing so.

lltnskyc ,

he asked for ..., as well as support for Ukraine’s civilians

The same civilians his illegitimate regime kidnaps from the streets and forcibly sends to the front lines to die?

lltnskyc ,

What bridge?

lltnskyc , (edited )

But what is disinformation in my comment?
What is it with lots of people here on lemmy that label everything that doesn't suit their worldview as misinformation/disinformation/propaganda?
That and name-calling does not change facts, you know, it just shows to other people that you can't argue your position..

lltnskyc ,

surely you are able to provide reputable sources

Sure :)

what makes the Ukrainian government illegitimate

This articles describes exactly my thoughts on this opinion: https://libertarianinstitute.org/articles/the-end-of-zelenskys-legitimacy/

when it has kidnapped its own civilians and forced them to fight

Every day!
It doesn't get shown in the western media, but if you subscribe to the local channels of big cities (Kiev/Odessa/Lviv/Kharkiv/etc.), or basically any sources actually covering what's happening in Ukraine (in Ukrainian or Russian language), you will see videos of TCK (I dunno how to properly translate it, but that's the government-military organization that does the kidnapping) posted almost every single day, people are caught on the streets and forcibly put into vans. Sometimes people manage to escape them, sometimes the crowd helps fight TCK off, but more often then not they get successfully kidnapped. Some villages got almost every men kidnapped that way (because previously they were scared to operate in big cities and preferred villages, but now they don't give a shit about anything).
A very small portion of that is documented here: https://uadraftmuseum.ch/

lltnskyc ,

Allowing Ukraine to defend itself is just the right thing to do.

Sure, supporting authoritarian government that forces desperate people trapped in Ukraine to die for their interest and political games is the right thing to do.

It is easy to support a genocide when it is not you and not your family that are getting massacred by Zelensky.

lltnskyc ,

I bet you blame the Palestinians for the bombing of Raffa.

Well, you've just lost your bet. I condemn both the genocide of Palestinians (done by the USA through the Israel), and the genocide of Ukrainians (done again mostly by the USA through the Ukrainian government. Damn, those guys really do like massacring people all around the globe :/, almost like they are the bad guys, hm...).

You would blame World War II on the Polish.

Nope, I don't, good thing you didn't make a bet on it, otherwise you'd lose two bets in a row.
But I do blame Poland for participating in massacring Ukrainians though. In fact, Poland is among the worst offenders! It helps "heroes" of Ukrainian border guard to catch those who try to escape Zelensky's meatgrinder, who then get sent straight to the meatgrinder.. For that reason, people mostly escape to Romania. Thankfully, Romania is not as sadistic as the rest of the democratic & free world.

lltnskyc ,

Hopefully Hungary will stay strong and continue to support Ukrainians, even if it is alone in doing so <3

lltnskyc ,

Because you can only implement universal healthcare through violence/theft. Doctors need a motivation to work, right? So you either

  • Force people to pay tax under threat of violence or find some other way to steal money.
  • Force doctors to work under threat of violence.
lltnskyc ,

There’s a legal obligation to provide defense lawyers to defendants and it obviously isnt done by holding lawyers at gunpoint.

Yes, it's covered by the first point of my post.

Force people to pay tax under threat of violence or find some other way to steal money.

lltnskyc ,

I'm used to it, thankfully downvotes don't change anything :)

lltnskyc , (edited )

Reddit felt like a massive echo chamber

Lemmy is a way bigger echo chamber, it's as "no matter who vote blue" as it gets tbh (with very few exceptions).

Where people aren’t pushed away for respectfully voicing their opinion. Is Lemmy the answer?

Nope, it's the opposite if anything.
I'm constantly getting attacked with ad hominem (my favourite one - getting called a fascist) here despite voicing opinions as respectfully as it gets, as well as providing sources for my claims whenever people ask.
Gotta have really thick skin if you are not left-leaning, but if you are - you will feel right at home :)

lltnskyc ,

crimes against Ukrainians

Surely this also applies to current USA administration turning Ukraine into prison that is almost impossible to escape and where men are treated worse then dogs?

lltnskyc ,

What?

lltnskyc ,

WDYM?

lltnskyc ,

You cannot tell the difference between Russia and the Free World? What is wrong with you man?

Is it Russia that kidnaps Ukrainians on the streets and sends them to die? The last time I checked it was Zelensky's regime.

lltnskyc ,

Ah, so justification is - they do something bad, so we will do something bad as well (not towards them tho).
Got it

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • random
  • test
  • worldmews
  • mews
  • All magazines
    •