I have lots of Japanese family and friends, and none of them understand the horrors of WW2. As far as they were taught, America just randomly dropped nukes on them. They're mad because they think of Japan as a victim, not a monster that needed to be stopped. They raped and pillaged everyone who wasn't Japanese.
At least Germany teaches their kids about their atrocities in hopes that they never repeat it.
Japan was definitely a monster that needed to be stopped. But to say that made it okay to drop two nukes instantly killing thousands of civilians is not okay in any case.
Mostly agreed. Historians and philosophers can argue ad nauseum about if the bombs were the only way to end the war, but we literally can't know. Some argue that everyone will listen to the emperor while others argue that they would fight to a long, drawn-out death, citing the coup that happened even after the Japanese saw the immense power of the bombs.
My comments just give insight into the ferocity with which they attack the movie. Japan doesn't teach their population about all of the war, the invasion of China and the Philippines, the rape of Nanjing...any of it. They are only taught that they were one day minding their own business when Americans destroyed two cities. It makes sense they don't want to consume this media.
this isn't specifically a Japanese thing though, most American kids are taught that dropping both bombs was the only way to win the war, when this is still the subject of a lot of debate. for that matter, they probably aren't taught about how eugenics were effectively exported from America to Germany. I'm from the UK and I had to wait until I was reading history for fun to learn about most of the UK's colonial crimes. the way history is taught in schools is just a bit shit
Wholeheartedly agree, history books are basically propaganda. Like, I it get if you don't want to get into the gory details of war, but if that's the case, why talk about murdering civilians at all.
Americans learn everything about the middle-eastern conflict from Sept. 11th, 2001 and on. They don't know anything of what happened before then, or why these evil bastards were so mad, etc.
This right here, there is a reason for a lot of the hate towards Japan in East and Southeast Asia, their reputation in the world today has drowned a lot of that out but it still happened and the crimes of imperial Japan are on the same level of cruelty as many crimes committed in the Holocaust some are worse
That to me seems like the same logic being used by the israelis to justify killing the Palestinians. Its never justified to go after the civilian population and non combatants.
That to me seems like the same logic being used by the israelis to justify killing the Palestinians.
The difference though is the availability of precise targeting of the enemy versus the civilians.
Do you potentially end the lives of a million of your own drafted citizens just for more precise targeting of the enemy? One hell of a moral dilemma for any leader to decide.
Its never justified to go after the civilian population and non combatants.
Absolutely agree with this, and one of the reasons I'm upset personally with Israel right now is that they are fairly infamous for being able to precisely target their enemy when they want to, and hence what they've done in Gaza to the civilian population that had nothing to do with the conflict is just horrific.
Having said all that, there is a nuance in the two scenarios, they are not equal.
But to say that made it okay to drop two nukes instantly killing thousands of civilians is not okay in any case.
My understanding was they were actually attacking manufacturing for the war, it's just that an atom bomb is not that discriminatory, and that all the military-only targets had already been bombed out of existence by that point.
Not saying it was right, just explaining it wasn't as black-and-white as you express.
Almost...
Another way to see it is they burdened future generations as an expedient measure to save the lives of the people now in the past.
Another another way to look at the bomb is preventing another world war.
An interesting historical point is Japan had largely been defeated by the time the bombs were dropped. And they had the option to bomb an uninhabited (or very lightly) part of Japan's territory as a show of force. But, instead they specifically chose to irradiate civilians.
This is of course just my opinion, but no horrors, imaginable or otherwise, that the Japanese could've possibly orchestrated at the time, with the means they had available, would've come close to the devastation caused by the bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Which victims are you talking about, and how did dropping those bombs save them? Was there possibly another way to get the Japanese to surrender? (probably more than one in fact). But no, let's kill hundred of thousands of civilians, that will fix it.
If a third world war must start, I hope the first nuke lands straight in your ass.
So, a couple of things, comment has been reported, likely for your final sentence which is about as removal worthy as anything else I've seen... but addressing your first point...
The argument at the time was that dropping the bomb WOULD save lives, military and civilian, compared to a full scale invasion of Japan.
Would the psychological impact of a full scale D-day style invasion be better or worse than the obliteration of 130,000+ people in Hiroshima and another 80,000+ in Nagasaki?
Well, smarter people than me have been arguing that since it happened. I'm certainly in no position to say one way or the other.
What can't be debated, for the people who say "Japan was beaten, we didn't need to drop the bomb..." Following Hiroshima on August 6th, there followed THREE DAYS requesting a surrender. The Japanese military refused. Even AFTER they knew the devastation of Hiroshima, the common thought was "hey, how many more bombs could they possibly have?"
So given they stubbornly refused to surrender following Hiroshima, that kind of gives you the idea of what devastation would be required from a full scale invasion. No, they weren't ready to surrender, and didn't even surrender after Hiroshima.
Three days isn't that huge amount of time for this kind of thing, and of course, even after two bombs some still didn't want to surrender. .. but the emperor did, and that's what matters. Maybe he would've surrendered after the first one, or maybe even with no bombs, given enough time to think... or maybe not, but the US didn't try to go that route really. It really seems like they went for maximum civilian casualty. That's the part I cannot agree with.
As for the comment, well, I'm always kind and respectful to those who are kind and respectful to me, despite disagreement, but if you just tell me to f off, all bets are off... so, feel free to remove if you want, but if you do, then please also remove the comment I was responding to. Thanks.
Yeah, partially because of the face saving culture. I do tend to agree with the assessment that an invasion of Japan would have been a bloodbath for both the invaders and the Japanese.
