Server for a boat

Good day, friends. Since catching the self-hosting bug, I've set up a couple of Proxmox home servers with a bunch of services I enjoy.

Now I'd like to set up a server and local network on my sailboat so I can self-host servarr, pihole, and other services while traveling. The tricky part is that everything on the boat is 12V and I would rather not use an inverter, if possible. Also, it needs to be ultra-low power so I can leave it on at all times and not to deplete my batteries too much.

Criteria:

  • ultra-low power
  • Small form factor
  • runs on 12V
  • 10 TB of storage plus ability to make full local backup
  • Capable of hosting servarr, audiobookshelf, freshrss, etc. via docker
  • HDMI output
  • Full local mirror/backup of the entire file system, including the media library.
  • We will have two laptops and two Android phones to access the server, so the server doesn't need to run a desktop environment.

I'll have a mobile wifi router and a cellular signal booster (or maybe Starlink eventually) for internet access. Since internet bandwidth will be limited and expensive while traveling, I don't want to have to re-download a massive media llibrary if the storage media fail. Thus, I want the media library to be mirrored or fully backed up or synced locally.

What hardware and Linux distro would you use in this situation?

poVoq ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

Get a PicoPSU for automotive use (there are two varieties, one that needs stable 12v and another that can run directly off a battery with varying voltage).

sailingbythelee OP ,

I think you've hit on the key difference between home and boat use: the variable voltage. My battery varies between about 13.3V and about 11.2V depending on its charge state. I'll look into these.

poVoq , (edited )
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

When you are actively charging the batteries off a solar panel for example, it will be even higher, up to 17V 14.5V or so I think. The automotive PicoPSUs only cost a little more and will smooth it out up to 24V I think... there are even some models that go up to 48V.

Edit: why the down-votes? Is this incorrect?

jake_jake_jake_ ,

i didn't downvote but 17v on a 12v battery maybe seems a bit high. I'm more used to about 7-14% over (maybe up to 14v on a 12v batt) when charged/floating but i don't use solar anywhere currently, and i usually work on 48v systems. i normally expect to see about 54v on a fully charged battery string (13.5v per battery x4) with the rectifiers running.

i also second the opinion of running an automotive PSU for this situation.

edit: i looked it up since i was curious, some "12v" solar panels can output between 16-20v, but it's recommended that you would use a charge controller, especially if you have lead-acid batteries

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Yes that's incorrect. Open circuit voltage for solar panels can be in the hundreds of volts, but you're never gonna put that into your battery. You're gonna run it through a charge controller that will bring it down to a normal voltage. For a lead acid that will be somewhere around 13.6V and 14.4V for LFP.

Shadow ,
@Shadow@lemmy.ca avatar

I'd recommend avoiding spinning disks and going all ssd if possible.

You can get 12v in atx power supplies.

You may want to consider something like a Lenovo tiny with a few large ssds.

Eheran ,

What hardware does not run on 12 V?

Define ultra low power. Given the 10 TB + mirror (why?) I assume at least 2 HDDs have to spin. So at least 20 W total? I mean they can spin down, but leaving the system on 24/7 seems a bit far fetched, even if it only consumes 1 watt (0.1 A load, 2.4 Ah per day).

sailingbythelee OP ,

Yeah, good point. Now that you mention it, there is no real reason to run the server 24/7 on the boat. Also, HDDs would not be happy with the amount of bouncing that small sailboats undergo while at sea.

scholar ,

This sounds like a job for a raspberry pi 5 with an m.2 hat for storage, software is a less important choice here, so ubuntu's raspberry pi flavour would be my choice. Just make sure you give it power in a form it likes.

FigMcLargeHuge ,

I just got an email about a new power supply board for the rpi5 - PD Power Extension Board for Raspberry Pi 5. It's on their pihut website and is $20. Has multiple input types.

cynar ,

Your best bet might be to use a laptop as the basis. They are already designed with power efficiency in mind, and you won't need an external screen and keyboard for local problem solving.

I would also consider having a raspberry pi 3 or similar as a companion. Services that must be up all the time run on the pi (e.g. network admin). The main computer only gets kicked out of sleep mode when required. The pi 3 needs less power than the newer pis, while still having enough computing power to not lag unless pushed hard.

I definitely agree with SSDs. HDDs don't do well when rotated when running. Boats are less than a stable platform.

sailingbythelee OP ,

This is a good idea. A modern laptop is already power efficient and has its own battery, which I guess would act like a UPS and protect the motherboard from big swings in voltage from the main battery bank.

lemmylommy ,

I would get a laptop as well in that situation. Just make sure it is one that supports setting the charging threshold. Having it on all the time will kill the battery quickly if it keeps charging from 95 to 100%. It’s much better to keep it below 80%, which should still give enough “UPS time”.

The battery will also not electrically protect the motherboard from voltage swings. So get a good power adapter that can handle the voltages.

atzanteol ,

HDDs don't do well when rotated

The original iPod had an HDD in it. You can rotate HDDs. Sharp impacts may be risky though, especially for a non-laptop drive.

cynar ,

HDDs can be made tolerant to it. Constant rotation still puts significant extra strain on the bearings, when spinning however. The drive will likely fail faster than an SSD.

HumanPerson ,

For hardware, I would go with sata ssds for storage. I also would recommend a separate boot drive as it makes re installing without loosing data a breeze. You could go with a new processor from intel or amd, and make sure it has onboard graphics. You should also go into the BIOS, enable xmp (always do that. It's free performance), and look for power saving settings. You could go for arm, but most arm computers lack expansion options and that can mean you use USB for drives which is unreliable. I think dc atx power supplies are a thing, but I know nothing about them. I would recommend doing ext4 and a raid, ideally 6 or 10. That will give you stability (from filesystem issues) and good reliability. I know RAID is not a backup, but in this case it may be what you want. RAID is for uptime, and it would be able to usually buy you enough time to finish your trip, or you could even have spare drives onboard and fix it while you're out in like 10 minutes. Also, I would highly recommend researching how to power it well. Starting an engine can mess with the power and could fry a computer. I don't know if a dc ups is a thing, but if it is, get it.

For software, use whatever you want, mostly. I always use debian for servers, but proxmox would probably be fine. You can use powertop to make sure it runs efficiently.

OneCardboardBox ,

For backup, maybe a blu-ray drive? I think you would want something that can withstand the salty environment, and maybe resist water. Thing is, even with BDXL discs, you only get a capacity of 100GiB each, so that's a lot of disks.

What about an offsite backup? Your media library could live ashore (in a server at a friend's house). You issue commands from your boat to download media, and then sync those files to your boat when it's done. If you really need to recover from the backup, have your friend clone a disk and mail it to you.

Do you even need a backup? Would data redundancy be enough? Sure if your boat catches fire and sinks, your movies are gone, but that's probably the least of your problems. If you just want to make sure that the salt and water doesn't destroy your data, how about:

  1. A multi-disk filesystem which can tolerate at least 1 failure
  2. Regular utilities scanning for failure. BTRFS scrubs, for example.
  3. Backup fresh disks kept in a salt and water resistant container (original sealed packaging), to swap any failing disk, and replicate data from any good drives remaining.
  4. Documentation/practice to perform the aforementioned disk replacement, so you're not googling manpages at sea.

This would probably be cheapest and have the least complexity.

HumanPerson ,

They said they want a local backup so they don't have to redownload because bandwidth is expensive. I think a RAID makes more sense. I also don't think btrfs is a great idea for a boat. Power failures will probably be somewhat common, and btrfs is not the most stable, so I don't think I would trust it in weird conditions. Documentation is definitely a great idea though.

OneCardboardBox ,

BTRFS should be stable in the case of power loss. That is to say, it ought to recover to a valid state. I believe the only unstable modes are RAID 5/6.

I'd recommend BTRFS in RAID1 mode over mdadm RAID1 + ext4. You get checksumming and scrubs to detect drive failures and data corruptions. You also have snapshotting, in case you're prone to the occasional fat-fingered rm -rf.

tal , (edited )
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

What hardware and Linux distro would you use in this situation?

The distro isn't likely to be a factor here. Any (non-super-specialized) distro will be able to solve issues in about the same way.

I mean, any recommendation is going to just be people mentioning their preferred distro.

I don't know whether saltwater exposure is a concern. If so, that may impose some constraints on heat generation (if you have to have it and storage hardware in a waterproof case).

sailingbythelee OP ,

Yes, I think you're right that distro doesn't matter. As I've been reading through the responses, I realize that the two main issues are storage (don't want to use HDDs on a bounching boat, but SSDs are expensive per TB) and power (limited battery and variable voltage). As you say, corrosion may also been an issue that I hadn't considered. I'll probably have to check in with the sailing forums to see if people have trouble with their laptops corroding at sea. This server isn't likely to get splashed directly, but it will be exposed to a lot of humidity and variable temperatures.

catloaf ,

I would recommend something like a Pi as well, but it looks like you're going to have to take it down to 5v. Maybe a NUC might be better.

But if you really want 20 TB, you'll need to buy two drives at least 10 TB, and you'll want them to be SSDs for the low power requirement. So that means you'll need a device with two SATA ports, because I don't think anyone makes NVMe drives that big. Oh, and be ready to pay a few thousand for each drive. Also you'll want to keep one drive offline, in an ESD bag in a dry bag. So maybe one will be USB.

But for real low power, I'd suggest just plain turning it off. Booting doesn't take that long any more. Or maybe suspend to disk, if you can find a system that supports it.

But overall, I would suggest reevaluating how important these things are to you. Generally, lots of electronics and nomadism don't go together. Have you considered books? I'm sure you can find people to swap with when you're in port.

sailingbythelee OP ,

Hmmm, looking at the cost of large SSDs, I think you're right that I should downgrade my storage requirements. Or perhaps I could use a large HDD that is turned off while underway for "long-term" storage and a smaller SSD for media that I want immediately available. That would avoid the problem of spinning a HDD while bouncing around in high wind and waves.

And, yes, we do have books, lol. But we also enjoy movies. :)

Decronym Bot , (edited )

Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:

Fewer Letters More Letters
NUC Next Unit of Computing brand of Intel small computers
NVMe Non-Volatile Memory Express interface for mass storage
PSU Power Supply Unit
RAID Redundant Array of Independent Disks for mass storage
SATA Serial AT Attachment interface for mass storage
SSD Solid State Drive mass storage
VPN Virtual Private Network

7 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 7 acronyms.

[Thread for this sub, first seen 26th Jun 2024, 18:35]
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667 ,
@667@lemmy.radio avatar

Good bot.

helenslunch , (edited )
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

For hardware I recommend this guy to everyone: CWWK N100 mini PC w/ 4xNVMe hat

Get 4x4TB NVMe drives and you'll have 12TB usable storage + parity drive.

It also uses a 12V power supply.

paf ,

Relying on 4 nvme drive for low power isn't ideal as nvme drive needs about twice more power compare to sata SSD.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

That's not correct. They can draw significantly more power when in use but also consume significantly less when not in use. You can use 2x SATA with this but you're gonna spend more $$$/TB

grue , (edited )

Don't forget to think about how to keep the salt air from corroding the electronics. Either build a spare or two that you keep sealed in plastic, or find an airtight case with an integrated heat sink or something.

Edit: you might want to look into conformal coating and dielectric grease (for the connectors) as well, although I don't know enough about that to competently give advice beyond the mere suggestion.

TexasDrunk ,

Came here to say this. I've worked on systems for a restaurant on the beach and it was corroded as hell. We had the wireless access points in cheap "weatherproof" boxes and they got corroded. We replaced them once a year or so because it was so bad.

B0rax ,

I always liked the idea of the small Lenovo ThinkEdge Servers, I just never had a usecase. Maybe these would work for you.

Churbleyimyam ,

I'd like to design a similar off-grid system. What do you have in mind for mobile wifi router and cellular signal booster?

sailingbythelee OP ,

I was looking at something like this mini-router with OpenWRT:

GL.iNet GL-AXT1800 (Slate AX) Pocket-sized Wi-Fi 6 Gigabit Travel Router, Extender/Repeater for Hotel&Public Network, VPN Client&Server, OpenWrt, Adguard Home, USB 3.0, Network Storage, TF card slot https://a.co/d/0iP7qaKj

For a signal booster:
weBoost Drive Reach Overland - Cell Phone Signal Booster for Off Road Vehicles | Boosts 5G & 4G LTE for All U.S. Carriers - Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile & More | Made in The U.S. | FCC Approved https://a.co/d/00PNi0AE

Churbleyimyam ,

That travel router looks good. Will you also be using it to connect to the internet using a phone hotspot or just using it for a local network?

tty5 ,

There are a lot of atom or mobile i3/i5 powered mini PCs that actually are powered with a 12v brick, in fact most of the industrial ones are. Small form factor, passive cooling, can play media for you and usually comes with 4x 1/2.5gbit Ethernet, so it can double as a router/switch. Usually 10-15w power draw.

Go to AliExpress and simply search for minipc and make sure it has a SATA connector for your hard drive.

sailingbythelee OP ,

I like the idea of using an industrial pc. Small sailboats experience a lot of vibration and sometimes violent bouncing, slamming, and heeling. Most things on a sailboat have been tossed around and flung onto the floor at some point, so it will have to be bolted down.

I don't know, maybe something like this?

KINGDEL Desktop Computer, Fanless PC, Intel i7 8th Gen CPU, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB NVMe SSD, HD Port, VGA, 2xCOM RS232, W-11 Pro https://a.co/d/0eODy8RH

tty5 ,

Something more like this https://a.co/d/0bgPCSvQ - it should use half the power, it's way smaller, 2x SATA if you want 2 drives. I haven't checked if this specific one is 12V, but there are dozens in the same form factor and with similar specs.

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