@BeAware Well, a teeny bit decentralized. I run my own Bluesky Personal Data Server (PDS), so my identity and posts are stored and managed on my own Bluesky server. Bluesky doesn't have my keys, my identity or posts. Anyone can join my server too. So, there's this...
@Jerry ah, but if BlueSky says "no you don't", then none of that matters, is the point. If it's not all decentralized, including who is "in charge" then it's about as stable as a Boeing..😬
@BeAware@Jerry At the moment, yes, because they're running the only AppView and Relay. But that could change maybe a year from now, anyone can set up those, it's just not as easy. Once there are other AppViews and Relays, you will be able to post and communicate from those external PDSes and be seen by others, even if Bluesky decides to block you.
@BeAware@Jerry Yes, I know it seems that way to the Fedi folks, because they're looking from the Fedi perspective so they're kinda naturally looking for things working the same way, like humans expecting aliens to be two-legged two-eyed humanoids 👽
To me, decentralization is not a 0-1, it's a spectrum, or rather things can be decentralized to a different degree in different ways. Bluesky/ATProto is somewhat decentralized and it's gradually getting more decentralized, step by step.
@mackuba@Jerry Well, then there equally needs to be a discussion about WHAT exactly IS decentralized about it and HOW. Because they're seems to be this blanket term.
In my opinion, decentralization is like a ship. If you're missing a bolt, eventually the whole thing will fall apart. If certain parts are centralized and others aren't, then that needs to be clearly defined somewhere.
Also, a lot of what you are saying, is happening "in the future". However, I am currently living in the now and asked the question for the now. Though, I do wish I could live in the future at some point.
@morph I feel like federated and decentralized are two ways of saying the same thing, so I don't get it. Even if you "build on ATProto", everything is still controlled by bluesky at the end of the day. We're"federated" here because we are not that, aren't we? Otherwise we would not be federated and I'm not sure there would be much debate on that fact....🤔
@BeAware As I understand it you can run independent instances. At least in the future. It's a while ago that I've nosed around bsky. My interest in it is not too big.
@BeAware@morph It's centralised but you get different communities or projects on it. If its litterally all on Bluesky it's not really decentralised its an illusion of such.
Do the projects/communities on Bluesky use their own servers? Had there been any times when Blue sky stepped in and said no to something and shut down a project? That's what I would be looking at if I were using it.
@Rob300@morph as long as there's censorship by a specific group or entity, it's centralized. That's the end of it, really. Jack Dorsey hit that on the nose perfectly tbh.
If you can be completely silenced because of your opinion, you don't have decentralization at all. Nothing else matters if that one thing is not there.
@BeAware@morph But has this censoeship occured on Bluesky? I know that Bluesky is not decentralised but have they banned people on there or stopped projects or communities in their tracks. If they had, that's how you really know if its decentralized or not. Without getting into the technicals of it.
Really it just sounds like Discord or Amino apps. With different communities but all centralised to the same rules of the platform.
@Rob300 🤷♂️I think we're talking in circles tbh. You seem to agree while asking the question if you should agree...? If they have 1 set of rules, does it really matter if they have definitive proof of using said rules?
We agree, 1 set of rules = centralized. They do enforce them or else there'd be PLENTY of crap like Dark Fedi has.🤷♂️
@BeAware No im asking if they took moderative action on the pkatform. if they did then that proves it to me(which I don't need), but also to other people who might believe its decentralised that its not which was what I was really going for.
I agree 100% that its decentralised but im asking if they enforce rules or if they just allow a wild west on Bluesky.